2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

And now I'm saying that the Eagles are the prime destination for J. Taylor and the Eagles are trying to make it happen. Yikes.

How the hell do they continue to add these guys? Yeah I know, rhetorical question.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I like your optimism, and I also think this team could surprise if everything clicks, but that's the objective sentence, if everything clicks.

I'd also be lying if I said I wasn't concerned with how our defense has looked like Swiss cheese to start both our games so far. 

I know it's only preseason but this defense has had a tendency to start slow all 3 years under jack and Ron and the fact they looked lost two games in a row to start is an ominous sign to me.

 

That operative sentence is true for literally every team with playoff expectations in the league, which is all but like six teams.  A successful season always hinges on contingencies like healthy and momentum.  We've got to stop seeing ourselves as this sad sack special case and realize we really are competitive with the league now.

 

The defense will be fine.  They are the safest bet on the team by far, and a couple of drives in the preseason haven't changed that.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

Yeah I have read that and am worried...They have already built an incredibly talented filled roster.

 

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

How the hell do they continue to add these guys? Yeah I know, rhetorical question.

Taylor as lead back and Swift as the third down back is a pretty impressive flex.

[Rex Tomb]

The Colts are asking for a 1st round pick or the equivalent with later round picks.  Do you think the Eagles would be willing to give up that draft capital to get him?  

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Nah, we'll be fine once Jamin settles back in.  It's a two man group, they have the easiest jobs on the defense, and we have two players there who are good enough.

 

Linebacker stopped being a linchpin position for an NFL defense years ago.  It's the least consequential position group on the defense now, the running backs of that side of the ball.  Except they're even less valuable than RBs since they don't score.

 

The dominance of a defense is predicated on mauling people at the line of scrimmage and playing cohesive coverage in your secondary.  We're built to do that right now.  We've got one of the best groups for bringing pressure with four in the league, and our secondary is like 8 deep in true quality now.  They also have a lot of continuity/equity built up.  Unless they get killed by injuries, they're going to be one of the best defenses in the NFL again this year.

I understand that playing behind our dominant starting DL will dramatically assist our LB's by keeping them cleaner, it doesn't remove the concern of them working through blockers as needed.  Their combined speed will be a great asset but we do need the LB's to be able to square up and they have not really shown they can. 

 

I do look forward to watching Jamin improve as he did last year. I had high hopes for Barton as it seemed the staff really studied available LB's and likes what they saw in him, but so far he has not impressed. 

[KillBill26]

8 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

The Colts are asking for a 1st round pick or the equivalent with later round picks.  Do you think the Eagles would be willing to give up that draft capital to get him

I do. It's a lot easier to part with a first rounder when you're pretty confident it's on the back end of the round.  Also the eagles are clearly in win now mode, and the two backs they have on their roster are injury prone. I'd hate to see it, but I understand why they would do everything they could to make it happen. 

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

The Colts are asking for a 1st round pick or the equivalent with later round picks.  Do you think the Eagles would be willing to give up that draft capital to get him?  

Howie isn't one to get punked for picks, but they were projected to take Bijon at 10 and they were projected to trade for Henry.

 

I think they like their backfield, but with Taylor that is an unstoppable offense. Yeah, I think the Eagles will trade a first, because they're all out to make sure that first is at 32.

[Going Commando]

46 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

AFC East will be pretty competitive top to bottom too.  I know the Pats are down, but they will still be a tough beat.  Bills, Jets, and Dolphins are all capable of making a run with good health.

 

Yeah it'll be one of the best divisions too in all likelihood.  But I just can't buy into the Dolphin or Jets yet.  I would rather bet on the Broncos or Chargers in the West than them, and I would definitely take the Chiefs over the Bills.  But I'd sure as Hell take the Patriots over the Raiders.

 

AFC is loaded this year.  There are going to be teams in that conference who are better than some of the division winners in the NFC but get left out of the postseason.

[redskinss]

16 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

The defense will be fine.  They are the safest bet on the team by far, and a couple of drives in the preseason haven't changed that.

Even if we start slow I'm almost certain they'll rebound and be a great defense that's their m.o. so far but if we do start slow like we have it could derail our season. 

But then again the talk of the entire offseason has been start fast and create turnovers so hopefully that lackadaisical effort they put in was just a result of vanilla preseason defense. 

I'm not convinced though 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Living in Giant Country I am overexposed to this disease and sympathize with you dealing with your family plague. 

 

 

 

It sucks. 

 

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Living in Giant Country I am overexposed to this disease and sympathize with you dealing with your family plague. 

 

 I think we have a pretty good staff ourselves.

 

 

If pretty good means B mins, C plus.  I agree.  Slightly above average -- nothing special.  Not IMO as good as our division foes.

 

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

 

I do hate the way the offseason went and can only hope they can bring in some more talent at OL, LB and sadly perhaps TE. All three we all knew needed better upgrades than they received. If they can manage this, the team behind an inexperienced QB has a chance to shine and be at least equal to the Giants. 

 

 

 

Will see how it unfolds.  Part of the reason why I like to cite the Giants is because IMO they started the off season worse off talent wise than us.  And IMO they now exceeded us.

 

Some defense of Ron at times centers on the idea that we need to be patient with his incremental approach -- he did this and lets celebrate that, if you don't like this other thing that wasn't quite addressed, don't worry because next year he will address that, etc.  I was OK with the uber patient approach for the first three years. 

 

But in year 4 it comes off ridiculous to me.    Watching the Giants do it in one season -- and then in this off season showing they can put multiple things on their plate and solve that at least in theory -- shows an urgency and imagination that I wish this FO had.

 

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

 

 

The amount of Waller love is crazy to me. I see him as an equal to Thomas, loaded with talent and fragile. Not the guy I want to be my top weapon.

 

 

 

Waller IMO is a clear peg maybe two better than Thomas  The better analogy is Jordan Reed.  Peak Jordan Reed wasn't as good as peak Waller.  But peak Reed was in range of Waller.

 

When personnel guys ranked the best in positions for ESPN, they had Waller as the #4 best TE in the league.  They had Thomas at 20. 

 

I think the Giants hype on Waller is surprising though some.  It feels a bit over the top.  

 

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

 

 

I am not thrilled with any talk of Jonathan Taylor moving to the NFCE. Over the past 2 days I had Giant fans talking this up...I had to kick them out until after we beat them!

 

 

that would suck.  But it fits Roseman's aggressive style except for RB isn't one of those spots he typically shoots high for.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

If the Eagles land J, Taylor they will be SB favorites not just NFC East favorites and SB contenders like they should be. I value nothing we saw in preseason, just a warm up and players trying to make roster. You can go 4-0 and lose every game or 0-4 and win the SB.  We need to start faster and if we are better it will be Howell the OL,TE K. We were below NFL average level on those last year. Injuries and Luck play a part too. Coaching cost us the playoffs against the Giants last year and it cost them their jobs too.  D is good enough. Most think TE is good enough, I am not sure but EB maybe able to get by? Not drafting a TE may be costly? Ol maybe problem this year. New Coaches may make a difference? Not seeing Dallas improvement. Giants TE and CB positions have improved makes them better, maybe WR. Philly is the Team to beat is what I think. 3 teams fight for Playoffs anything can happen.  Hype is just Hype, Team chemistry is very important and we have that and it is a plus.

[redskinss]

30 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

That operative sentence is true for literally every team with playoff expectations in the league, which is all but like six teams. 

Yes and no, some teams like the 9ers the chiefs the eagles etc, can overcome a lot of adversity to still make a deep run in the playoffs.

We can't.

In order for us to have a 12 win season we need everything to go absolutely perfectly the aforementioned teams don't have to have anywhere near as many stars line up to get to 12 wins.

But I agree I do think it's possible. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by redskinss

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Waller IMO is a clear peg maybe two better than Thomas  The better analogy is Jordan Reed.  Peak Jordan Reed wasn't as good as peak Waller.  But peak Reed was in range of Waller.

 

When personnel guys ranked the best in positions for ESPN, they had Waller as the #4 best TE in the league.  They had Thomas at 20. 

 

I think the Giants hype on Waller is surprising though some.  It feels a bit over the top.  

My comparison is more based on a healthy Thomas as seen in 2020 with EB's new offense and the high TE usage.

His 20 ranking is based on 2 years of not being healthy.

 

Yes I don't get the national Waller love

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

My comparison is more based on a healthy Thomas as seen in 2020 with EB's new offense and the high TE usage.

His 20 ranking is based on 2 years of not being healthy.

 

Yes I don't get the national Waller love

 

Waller's #4 ranking also includes 2 years of not being healthy.

 

Waller runs in the 4.4.  Thomas even at his peak was not Waller's level of explosiveness.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

I think we will be better than last year, but this division is yoked.

Hard for me to place us anywhere other than 4th.

 

Phi and Dal were clearly much better than us last year and remain so now.

We were very close to NY, but they had a way better offseason than we had, plus they get the added bonus of stability going into another year together.

One of the other three teams is going to have a disappointing season.  How do I know that?  Because every year just under half the playoff teams have disappointing seasons and miss the playoffs.  
 

Everybody knows this.  
 

The problem is, you cannot predict which 5-6 playoff teams from the previous year will falter.  You just know some will. 
 

I’d take bets one of the three will have a season which doesn’t live up to expectations.  Which one? Dunno.  

possible reasons why: 

- Giants because they weren’t that good last year, REDACTED gave them 1.5 wins and they got very lucky early in the season.  They regress to what they should be and Daniel Jones isn’t that good.

 

- Dallas because McCarthy is a big idiot and they aren’t as good as last year

 

- Eagles because after making a SB and losing, it’s really tough to come back. 
 

Also, some team is going to get ravaged by injuries.  
 

The NFL is completely unpredictable.  Last year at this time Tampa and GB were the favorites for their divisions with expected win totals of 12+ games.  GB totally collapsed, and Tampa won their division with a losing record.  
 

About the only thing predictable now is the Chiefs are the new Patriots.  They’ll be right there every year because they have the best QB and very good coaching.  

 

EDIT: One more thing, my bold prediction is the Bills are going to miss the playoffs.  Why? I'm not entirely sure. I think the weight of getting close and blowing it in the playoffs year after year is going to get to them, they're going to press, and have a seriously disappointing season.  Every year, at least on "on paper really good/elite team" just falls off the cliff for reasons which are hard to explain.  I'm betting this year it's the Bills.   Eventually, it's going to be the Chiefs. They're going to have a "bad" season out of nowhere. (Bad is relative, but 7-10, 8-9, something like that.) Because you can't go to 14 straight AFC Championship games.  But I don't feel that this year...

Edited August 24, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[skinsfan66]

Agree if Waller stays healthy it will be trouble but he has too? Thomas is not in his league, never was. Without Thomas who is a injury case too, leaves us back to last year.  B-More is loaded (trade) and really good teams have them as a weapon. TE draft class was huge this year but....to many if's no proven depth.

[redskinss]

I do agree with Commando in that I also like rivera's approach to roster building more than most around here.

The old school get the right guy that you can groom, who fits your system and is a team player rather than necessarily just the most talented guy available at the moment approach.

 

I also don't like how he gets faulted for acting like he has an unlimited amount of time to build the roster rather than realizing he's on the hot seat and has to act fast.

building the team with foresight and patience is the only way I'd ever want my gm to do it, the moment he starts panicking and making roster moves because of a threat to his career rather than what's best for the future of the team is the moment I think he should be fired.

And it's honorable that he's more worried about the future of the team than his job.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Taylor as lead back and Swift as the third down back is a pretty impressive flex.

I had no idea Roseman and Lurie where Swifties....

 

[MartinC]

5 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

The Colts are asking for a 1st round pick or the equivalent with later round picks.  Do you think the Eagles would be willing to give up that draft capital to get him?  

I hope so. And the contract that he wants. 
 

He will make them better short term - he’s a heck of a back. But using first round picks and lots of cap capital on running backs is not a smart move long term from an overall roster perspective.

 

They think they have a window though so why not go for it. 

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I had no idea Roseman and Lurie where Swifties....

 

She is from Philly and a Birds fan

 

9 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I hope so. And the contract that he wants. 
 

He will make them better short term - he’s a heck of a back. But using first round picks and lots of draft capital on running backs is not a smart move long term from an overall roster perspective.

 

They think they have a window though so why not go for it. 

You didn't like the Lions or Falcons draft?

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For this team to win 11-12 games, IMO three things have to happen.

 

A.  Sam Howell blossoms to be Russell Wilson like from the jump.

 

B.  Chase Young in a contract year goes Daron Payne level career peak 

 

C.  the O line plays average

 

For me I see 8 wins.  If things break their way 9 wins.    11-12 wins would be historic for this organization, best season since 1991 and it would be beyond impressive considering how tough this division is.

 

I don't expect 11-12 wins.  

 

For them to get there, I think what you stated above has to hold true (with one slight change) + two other things:

 

- The change, I don't think I'd put it just on Young having a career year, I'd say generally the defense needs to be extremely disruptive and force turnovers and create short fields at a high rate. This would mean the DL applying pressure, finishing sacks (which lead to both sack/strips and also known passing situations), and the secondary converting opportunities into turnovers.  Young/Sweat combo have to be a huge part of that, but I think it's more than just Young having a career year.  

- Somebody has to emerge as a clear #3 weapon who can stretch the field and scare defenses.  1 and 2 are Terry/Dotson.  Who's 3?  Samuel? Brown? Turner? Gibby in the pass game? This would compliment the run game and make the skill position players REALLY dangerous.  If 3 guys an get deep, it forces the defense to play "straight up" and that opens room for the running/quick game.  To get to 11/12 wins, you probably need both Terry and Dotson to have 1,200 yards + another receiver to be in the 700-800 range.  

- One of the division teams has to just have an out-of-nowhere collapse for some reason.  Injury, HC stupidity, whatever.  

 

 

[formerly4skins]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

I do look forward to watching Jamin improve as he did last year.

I reall wish I shared the optimism on Jamin.

 

In my opinion, he's a straight WLB being asked to play the role of stud MLB.

 

Between being shoehorned into a position that he's not a natural fit for and probably having too much on his plate as the green-dot and "best" player in the position group...I don't feel like he's really been set up for success by Ron & Co.

[XxSpearheadxX]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

How the hell do they continue to add these guys? Yeah I know, rhetorical question.

When you are a proven contender players want to come there. I know it was rhetorical but I answered anyway lol

7 minutes ago, formerly4skins said:

I reall wish I shared the optimism on Jamin.

 

In my opinion, he's a straight WLB being asked to play the role of stud MLB.

 

Between being shoehorned into a position that he's not a natural fit for and probably having too much on his plate as the green-dot and "best" player in the position group...I don't feel like he's really been set up for success by Ron & Co.

He's not playing mlber anymore Cody Barton is. Jamin needs to blitz 5 times a game minimum it's his best trait

Edited August 24, 2023 by XxSpearheadxX

[formerly4skins]

14 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

He's not playing mlber anymore Cody Barton is.

 Oof...didn't realize Barton was already named the starter at that spot. 

 

...not a fan of that at all.

 

The neglect this staff has shown to the LB group is damn near criminal, and could very well derail an otherwise strong D this season.

[XxSpearheadxX]

1 minute ago, formerly4skins said:

 

The neglect this staff has shown to the LB group is damn near criminal, and could very well derail an otherwise strong D this season.

You aren't wrong about the neglect, Holcomb was a big loss.

 

Its what I heard they were running the ones with I could be wrong. Either way he is Way better as a freewheeling outside backer with limited responsibility imo

Edited August 24, 2023 by XxSpearheadxX