2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[MrJL]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure what covid and cancer has to do one whit with the point.

 

Why Carolina too?  Because the way he was referencing the Ravens, you'd think he was some rookie coach learning the ways of how to build.  His 9 years in Carolina IMO are relevant to the point -- do people talk about winning the Carolina way?  

 

it came off a bit odd from Ron.  Several radio stations covered the point.  I ignored it then because I don't care that much about it.   I only brought it up here in the context that Mike Jones' article to compare the franchises -- doesn't seem that foreign in the context of Ron lionizing the Ravens way before the scrimmages.

 

Though I'll grant it's probably just another case of Ron's rhetoric where he wasn't thinking that deeply about what he was saying.  But it didn't escape some that there is some odd context for a veteran coach to extol another organization as a model one.

 

cancer and covid limit the amount of time he and the players are actually in the building working with each other.  He may not be learning the ways to build, but you have to implement them in their own time with each team

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

cancer and covid limit the amount of time he and the players are actually in the building working with each other.  He may not be learning the ways to build, but you have to implement them in their own time with each team

 

He was gushing a bit much about the Ravens.  Among his comments, he pushed about the tone and tempo for how the Ravens do things and that's why John Harbaugh has been around for so long.  

 

Ron has been around the block almost as long as Harbaugh as a HC.  Do you ever hear winning the Rivera way?  The Panthers way? 

 

 We seem to be perpetually building to something that hasn't arrived.  As Randy Mueller, ex-GM, a dude who likes Ron a lot referenced his lack of urgency and comes off like he's on a 10 year plan.  This is another data point that feeds into that mindset.

 

Look I get, taking a different point of view on this, its cool.  But for me its just too many examples of this from Ron for me to give him the benefit of the doubt anymore.  I gave him three seasons plus of it.  No more.  This thing like I said didn't bother me at the time and still doesn't.  it's a small data point if that.  But like I said it makes Mike Jones' article make more sense considering Ron ironically pushed that narrative.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-commanders-baltimore-ravens-joint-practices-preseason-training-camp-john-harbaugh

"Rivera said...A very well-coached football team that's pretty much been one of the standards for the last 14 years since John Harbaugh arrived on the scene. We all can learn something from those guys 

A very well-coached football team that's pretty much been one of the standards for the last 14 years since John Harbaugh arrived on the scene. We all can learn something from those guys "

 

 

https://www.audacy.com/thefandc/sports/washington-commanders/grant-and-danny-does-ron-rivera-need-more-urgency-this-year

“It kind of dawned on me that we’re here in Year 4, but Rivera still talks sometimes like they’re a young group coming together and starting to build,” Grant said. “I understand we all interpret things differently, so I will listen if people say I’m making too much of this. But I hear this comment and it resonates with my feeling that the internal urgency is still not quite where I want it to be. Rivera talked about his five-year plan when he was hired, but we’re in Year 4 now and still building? There’s really no reason you’re not on the same level as the Ravens yet. This is basically a .500 team over two years, and we’re looking up to them like they’re superior? Shouldn’t you be at that level?”

 

 

...Grant recalled how Rivera answered a question last year if 2022 was a must-year in terms of a playoff berth, and the reporter was shut down.

“It is okay to have expectations,” Grant said. “That comment felt like he was saying ‘we’re practicing against the varsity today,’ and four years in, it shouldn’t feel that way when you’re practicing against a team like Baltimore. Am I on to something here, or is this an overreaction?”

Edited August 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

22 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

cancer and covid limit the amount of time he and the players are actually in the building working with each other.  He may not be learning the ways to build, but you have to implement them in their own time with each team

1. What is a reasonable amount of time in your mind to establish the Rivera brand of winning culture, and:

 

2. What is the goal he needs to attain in that amount of time to remain employed.
 

I think knowing your answer to these two questions will lend a lot of context to your posts on this, and prevent a lot of needless back and forth where people try to suss out the opinion behind all the posts. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Conn

[Hooper]

33 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Stupid question and semi-offtopic here. Anyone know the economics of sports journalism? It seems like there are fewer articles written and instead more podcasts. Feels like the number of articles John Keim (for example) writes are like 1/3rd what they used to be. Instead the topics are covered on a podcast.

 

It's more difficult to just read updates on training camp now than it used to be. (Doesn't help twitter is useless without an account). When I ask people, they say "Oh yeah, you have to listen to their latest podcast for that one". What spurred this switch? Are random inserts of "shop here" in a podcast paying that much more than clickable ads?

It is pretty much impossible to make a living as a sportswriter now. 

 

Like even the Washington Post pays very, very little. Years ago they couldn't afford to keep Keim -- and the Post's pay has gone down drastically since.

 

They are basically hiring kids and then swapping them out. 

 

And again, this is the Washington Post.

 

Podcasts have become a crucial part of a sportswriter's income. Some own them out right, some split with the company they work for, some split the ad-click throughs.

 

Tough, tough business. And it's led to an avalanche of "Blogger Boys" as Kevin Durant so amazingly put it.

 

Young dudes who watch All-22 and throw around a lot of terms like "off-platform" throws. 

 

Trust me, most of them live at home. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Logan and Hoffman's podcast today.  Wow, are they heavy handed about this team should start no starters, especially sitting Howell, tonight.

 

They think injury risk isn't worth it.  And they think the verdict is lose lose -- if they score with the 1's against the Raven's 2's, then so what?  And if they don't it might hurt the team's confidence.

 

My counter to that is Howell is young and still learning.  This is a new system that they are mastering.  Do we want to go in 3 weeks without the starters playing -- assuming they don't start next week. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[GOSKINS_08]

Starters need to play on offense tonight Atleast. 3 drives minimum unless it’s back to back scoring drives. We need Howell to have more game action before week 1. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to Keim's podcast today and Paulsen.

 

Paulsen doubling down on Keim's point which I posted a few days back that Montiero crushed camp on the O line.  Paulsen came off even more effusive than Keim.

 

But Keim suggested even though Daniels has had a rough camp, he was a draft pick so he's likely making the team.  Sounds like Montiero won't even though he's having a good camp.

 

Sounds like Hodges doesn't make it.  And they try to sneak him and KJ Henry to the practice squad.  Armah likely making the cut.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Keim's podcast today and Paulsen.

 

Paulsen doubling down on Keim's point which I posted a few days back that Montiero crushed camp on the O line.  Paulsen came off even more effusive than Keim.

I'm so confused.  I thought we JUST signed this guy.  He was the Panther (after Ron) who we had in last year, cut, spent some time on the PS, and then I thought I saw an announcement he was re-signed like last week?  Or is that the 'shrooms talking?

 

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But Keim suggested even though Daniels has had a rough camp, he was a draft pick so he's likely making the team.  Sounds like Montiero won't even though he's having a good camp.

Yeah, they're not cutting a 4th round pick.  Whether they should or shouldn't, they won't.  

 

The point Keim makes, and it's a very good one, is the depth on the OL is going to be very inexperienced outside of Lucas, and I guess Larson.  Everybody else is REALLY inexperienced.  

[HigSkin]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm so confused.  I thought we JUST signed this guy.  He was the Panther (after Ron) who we had in last year, cut, spent some time on the PS, and then I thought I saw an announcement he was re-signed like last week?  Or is that the 'shrooms talking?

 

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/washington-commanders-sign-aaron-monteiro

Commanders sign T Aaron Monteiro

May 23, 2022 at 03:43 PM

 

The Washington Commanders have signed offensive tackle Aaron Monteiro.

Monteiro (6-foot-6, 315 pounds) has been in the NFL since 2020 and played for the Carolina Panthers, New England Patriots and  Miami Dolphins' practice squads. He was most recently released by the Panthers on May 12.

Monteiro was a four-year player at Boston College, starting 32 consecutive games. He earned third team All-ACC as a senior and signed with the Dolphins as an undrafted free agent in 2019. He was later released and signed by the Patriots later that year but was released again six days later.

Monteiro then signed with the Panthers, where he played on the practice squad for the next three seasons.

[Conn]

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm so confused.  I thought we JUST signed this guy.  He was the Panther (after Ron) who we had in last year, cut, spent some time on the PS, and then I thought I saw an announcement he was re-signed like last week?  Or is that the 'shrooms talking?

Understandable mistake bc someone posted an old tweet—from his signing last year—recently, just to act as information about him after Keim brought him up, and many took that to be a new tweet.

 

The shrooms are affecting many of your other posts, though! lol

[DWinzit]

56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Keim's podcast today and Paulsen.

 

Paulsen doubling down on Keim's point which I posted a few days back that Montiero crushed camp on the O line.  Paulsen came off even more effusive than Keim.

 

But Keim suggested even though Daniels has had a rough camp, he was a draft pick so he's likely making the team.  Sounds like Montiero won't even though he's having a good camp.

 

Sounds like Hodges doesn't make it.  And they try to sneak him and KJ Henry to the practice squad.  Armah likely making the cut.

I am pretty psyched about Armah making the team. They can use him in a lot of different ways. When Armani Rogers went down many were saying Hodges would be taking his spot. Well, hope he makes it to the PS.

 

If Montiero was really that good (I never heard his name until 2 days ago) then he should make the roster and see if Daniels makes it through waivers.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Some team will be more hard up for depth than we are if we cut Daniels. 300 pounders with his movement skills are in short supply. He just sucks at the actual football thing currently, but somebody will claim him just due to athletic potential.

[Wyvern]

What's the deal with Trent Scott -- that FA Tackle Washington signed in May 2023?  Has he shown any promise?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

11 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

What's the deal with Trent Scott -- that FA Tackle Washington signed in May 2023?  Has he shown any promise?

 

I know he was opposite Lucas for awhile with the 2nd team. But don't know much else. With the news that Monteiro has impressed enough to make the team wouldn't that mean Scott is a 3rd teamer and Monteiro is now on 2nd team?

[MrJL]

3 hours ago, Conn said:

1. What is a reasonable amount of time in your mind to establish the Rivera brand of winning culture, and:

 

2. What is the goal he needs to attain in that amount of time to remain employed.
 

I think knowing your answer to these two questions will lend a lot of context to your posts on this, and prevent a lot of needless back and forth where people try to suss out the opinion behind all the posts. 

 

well, thinking about it... I don't know.  Hopefullly this many is enough.

 

However, I don't think the coach should be talking about it like it done.  To a coach the culture should always be being built

[justice98]

I dont know why he didn't cut outside there.  

[Conn]

25 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

well, thinking about it... I don't know.  Hopefullly this many is enough.

 

However, I don't think the coach should be talking about it like it done.  To a coach the culture should always be being built

Tough to take your criticism of other people’s standards for the coaching staff seriously if you won’t set your own. It’s worth thinking about while you defend Rivera against all comers. 

[MrJL]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

Tough to take your criticism of other people’s standards for the coaching staff seriously if you won’t set your own. It’s worth thinking about while you defend Rivera against all comers. 

 

part of my criticism is I think you're all to quick to set standards

Edited August 22, 2023 by MrJL

[justice98]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Logan and Hoffman's podcast today.  Wow, are they heavy handed about this team should start no starters, especially sitting Howell, tonight.

 

They think injury risk isn't worth it.  And they think the verdict is lose lose -- if they score with the 1's against the Raven's 2's, then so what?  And if they don't it might hurt the team's confidence.

 

My counter to that is Howell is young and still learning.  This is a new system that they are mastering.  Do we want to go in 3 weeks without the starters playing -- assuming they don't start next week. 

 

This offense needs all the work and positive momentum it can get.  I would not want to go into week 1 with this group barely playing and learning a new offense.

[MrJL]

good call

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

part of my criticism is I think you're all to quick to set standards

how long is fair before setting standards to then hold a coaching staff to? Half a decade? 8 years? A decade? When is the sample size large enough. 
 

For a serious answer, consider this: the entire point of setting standards is that they’re created and considered independent of whoever is being held to them. Settings are unbiased and agnostic about whoever is measuring up against them. Standards are a rubric to be graded against. 

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

how long is fair before setting standards to then hold a coaching staff to? Half a decade? 8 years? A decade? When is the sample size large enough. 
 

For a serious answer, consider this: the entire point of setting standards is that they’re created and considered independent of whoever is being held to them. Settings are unbiased and agnostic about whoever is measuring up against them. Standards are a rubric to be graded against. 

 

that only works if everyone has and is held to the same standards

[D’Pablo]

This defense is embarrassing 

[Conn]

8 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

that only works if everyone has and is held to the same standards

Within the same organization? I agree. Those are the sorts of standards new ownership will set and hold people to. 
 

I feel you’re just talking in circles though and avoiding expressing a tangible opinion on the matter. If it’s something you don’t feel comfortable having an opinion on because you prefer to root for the team and not critically analyze it, that’s fair and I’ll respect it. But you sure disagree with a lot of critiques of Rivera for a guy who can’t voice an opposing opinion other than “what you said is not fair. I don’t know what is fair though”.