2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[tomwvr]

over the cap shows the team almost 13 mil under the cap this season. They need to go out and get someone better on the OnLine or this team will crash and burn. They have the space to go sign or trade for much better than what they have. Risner and Lewan are still out there and better than what we currently have. And they have the money to sign one or both of them

 

[RVAskins]

9 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

over the cap shows the team almost 13 mil under the cap this season. They need to go out and get someone better on the OnLine or this team will crash and burn. They have the space to go sign or trade for much better than what they have. Risner and Lewan are still out there and better than what we currently have. And they have the money to sign one or both of them

 

I think they're waiting for cuts to happen and then will pick up a player or two.

[tomwvr]

Just now, RVAskins said:

I think they're waiting for cuts to happen and then will pick up a player or two.

With all the cuts at the end of camp is that not a bit late to bring someone new into this system?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[KillBill26]

12 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

over the cap shows the team almost 13 mil under the cap this season. They need to go out and get someone better on the OnLine or this team will crash and burn. They have the space to go sign or trade for much better than what they have. Risner and Lewan are still out there and better than what we currently have. And they have the money to sign one or both of them

 

Lewan is suing Dr James Andrews for botching his ACL surgery in 2020, so I think he is done.  Risner would be a great addition imo.  Plug and play at LG. 

 

It makes sense to me to redshirt/IR Stromberg and Daniels if they don't feel they're ready and want to give them more time.  However, if they are planning on carrying them on the active roster, signing Risner means cutting a young guy like Paul, Charles or Brooks.  They might want to see what they've got in those guys before letting one of them go.  Risner would help in the short term, but you might let a cheap young lineman go that would hurt in the long term.  I'm not saying I would pass on Risner to keep Brooks, just speculating at what their mindset could be.  But predicting the mindset of this FO is impossible. 

[RVAskins]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Both JP and Mitch, who were there, thought the Oline held their own vs the Ravens dline.  

Even pointed out Charles for his performance saying they see why the coaches have him as the number 1 left guard, wasn't perfect but did well.

Both thought we were the tougher team and were encouraged by what they saw from the whole team.  Perspective. Patience. 

 

 

 

I think they drank some of the left over Larry Michael Kool Aid.

[DWinzit]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He wanted a guy who knew the system, and got one.

 

I think there was total acceptance they were going to get a tackle in the draft. 
 

Then the draft didn’t play out to their benefit.  And they didn’t take control of their own destiny to trade up to get a starting tackle.  And here we are.  

Understood about a guy that knew the system but he should have known Wylie is not a good OT.

They named him the RT right away and then told Cosmi he was moving inside

 

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

I think you meant to post this saying Bigfoot was the Ravens D and the cars our OL  😒

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

-Our linebackers struggle in space.

This is so disappointing to read. Year in and year out. I was really hoping to read Barton and Hudson are playing great all over.

[tomwvr]

4 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Lewan is suing Dr James Andrews for botching his ACL surgery in 2020, so I think he is done.  Risner would be a great addition imo.  Plug and play at LG. 

 

It makes sense to me to redshirt/IR Stromberg and Daniels if they don't feel they're ready and want to give them more time.  However, if they are planning on carrying them on the active roster, signing Risner means cutting a young guy like Paul, Charles or Brooks.  They might want to see what they've got in those guys before letting one of them go.  Risner would help in the short term, but you might let a cheap young lineman go that would hurt in the long term.  I'm not saying I would pass on Risner to keep Brooks, just speculating at what their mindset could be.  But predicting the mindset of this FO is impossible. 

Didnt know about the Botched surgery. That sucks. There really are no OT out there right now. And I doubt any decent ones will be cut at cut down day. We are screwed at Tackle

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Kirk was unspectacular in 2014, and the line was pretty bad.  When we drafted scherff in 2015, our line improved and that's when Cousins blossomed.  I wouldn't be surprised if we see the same thing with our current situation.  A young QB struggling due to constant pressure, who finally takes off when (hopefully) the oline improves.

 

Scherff was a boost.  Him and Moses helped stablize it. 

 

It's been a long time.  And i don't agree with PFF's more optimistic take on that unit that year.  I recall pedestrian.  But ultimately Kirk did have a stable O line with Scherff, etc which helped him succeed.  Naturally he did have to do his part, too. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings

 

12. Washington Redskins (5th)

Pass Blocking Ranking: 9th, Run Blocking Ranking: 21st, Penalties Ranking: 13th

Stud: Even playing banged up Trent Williams still looks like a class act.

Dud: Former 2012 sixth-round pick Tom Compton had his chance to shine and failed to take it. It would be a mild surprise to see him back with the team.

Breakdown: A lot of changing parts with Korey Lichtensteiger making a good switch to center and Chris Chester having one of his good years (which likely means a bad one is around the corner). There are still a few question marks out there and you get the feel this unit is in transition as they transform into something more of Jay Gruden’s liking.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KillBill26]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Scherff was a boost.  Him and Moses helped stablize it. 

 

It's been a long time.  And i don't agree with PFF's more optimistic take on that unit that year.  I recall pedestrian.  But ultimately Kirk did have a stable O line with Scherff, etc which helped him succeed.  Naturally he did have to do his part, too. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings

 

12. Washington Redskins (5th)

Pass Blocking Ranking: 9th, Run Blocking Ranking: 21st, Penalties Ranking: 13th

Stud: Even playing banged up Trent Williams still looks like a class act.

Dud: Former 2012 sixth-round pick Tom Compton had his chance to shine and failed to take it. It would be a mild surprise to see him back with the team.

Breakdown: A lot of changing parts with Korey Lichtensteiger making a good switch to center and Chris Chester having one of his good years (which likely means a bad one is around the corner). There are still a few question marks out there and you get the feel this unit is in transition as they transform into something more of Jay Gruden’s liking.

Agreed, I remember them as less than pedestrian, so am surprised to see that #12 ranking.  The discouraging this is we didn't see Cousins hit his stride until the oline was improved.  In Cousins' case, thankfully for him, the oline was patched up in time for his first full season as starter, and it allowed his growth.  If the line wasn't improved, and his 2015 was as unspectacular as his 2014, who knows how the rest of his career would've played out from there.  He may have been a Davis Mills, quickly replaced and destined to ride the pine.  

 

I like Howell's potential, and I'm probably not as down on the OL as most, but after seeing how important the upgraded line was to identifying that you have found your QB in Cousins in 2015, it's demoralizing to see Howell in such a tough spot as he enters his first full season at QB.  We need to build confidence and positive energy ASAP. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by KillBill26

[MrJL]

16 minutes ago, dyst said:

By the time this team figures out OL and LB, the other pieces will need to be replaced 

 

well, ideally those would be the places we're looking at next offseason where we don't actually have a ton of major pieces missing.  We have the means to keep one of our DE and we have adequate replacements.  We have decent depth in the secondary

[Conn]

Wylie needs to figure out his footwork?? EB has had this man for what, four years already? He never had his OL coach figure this out with him? Feels like it’s not going to magically get better now. 

[RVAskins]

9 minutes ago, Conn said:

Wylie needs to figure out his footwork?? EB has had this man for what, four years already? He never had his OL coach figure this out with him? Feels like it’s not going to magically get better now. 

I see the problem.

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, Conn said:

Wylie needs to figure out his footwork?? EB has had this man for what, four years already? He never had his OL coach figure this out with him? Feels like it’s not going to magically get better now. 

No worries.

 

I don’t know if you guys have heard but we have a new owner. We will hire a footwork coach this off-season as soon as we fire that freeloader Rivera! Carpe Diem!

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

I'm the only one that probably cares about this, but I want us to win this next game against BMore and put an end to this little tea party they got going on with this win streak. 

 

If I remember correctly, we ALMOST ended it last preseason. 

 

Not saying to start players longer or anything like that, but **** them and that streak that their coach supposedly cares so much about. I want us to be the team that ends that ****. **** the Ravens..... DC, MD (all of it) & VA is STILL Redskins country. We got a new owner, and I want our turf back...starting with ending that streak. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by LetMeSeeYourWarFace21

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

I'm the only one that probably cares about this, but I want us to win this next game against BMore and put an end to this little tea party they got going on with this win streak. 

 

If I remember correctly, we ALMOST ended it last preseason. 

 

Not saying to start players longer or anything like that, but **** them and that streak that their coach supposedly cares so much about. I want us to be the team that ends that ****. **** the Ravens..... DC, MD (all of it) & VA is STILL Redskins country. We got a new owner, and I want our turf back...starting with ending that streak. 

It really doesn’t matter from a football perspective at all.  
 

But if you’re competing for fans back, stomping on their throats and applying pressure is a good way to start….

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

JP and BMitch were emphatic with praise about how well the team practiced today, the OL particularly.  Their assessments don’t align with what I’m reading here though at all.

[Conn]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

JP and BMitch were emphatic with praise about how well the team practiced today, the OL particularly.  Their assessments don’t align with what I’m reading here though at all.

Just watched the 1.5 hr Ravens stream (clicking forward between dead spaces to see all the actual drills and reps) and yeah idk, there’s not much to really see from the offensive starters. Unless there was a different stream showing the other field, they showed about 7 Howell plays and over half of them were running plays, one was a sack. They mostly kept the camera on the Ravens offense since it was on the Ravens stream. Did see Dyami drop an easy one over the middle from Brisett, saw Fromm make a fool of himself a bunch. But not much of the starting OL even got on camera from what I could see, just the way the Ravens broadcast team did things. 
 

So maybe the people physically there were able to catch more in person, focusing on the reps the cameras didn’t pick up. It’s very possible. But yeah pretty abrupt about-face on the OL performance if true, I’m skeptical. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

JP and BMitch were emphatic with praise about how well the team practiced today, the OL particularly.  Their assessments don’t align with what I’m reading here though at all.

To be fair, they saw the entire practice. We saw bits and pieces. If coincidentally the **** parts of the Commanders O were shown and the good parts were left off then their narrative could be on point.

 

I’m only personally going with what I see with my eyes.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, tomwvr said:

With all the cuts at the end of camp is that not a bit late to bring someone new into this system?

The quality of O’Line play is a problem for a lot of the league. Real shortage of even just average starting quality O’line out there, especially at tackle. I do think we will be scanning the waiver wire but I am thinking that is more to add at least one more quality depth player - expecting someone to be released who could come in and improve the starting 5 immediately is optimistic.

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

Kirk was unspectacular in 2014, and the line was pretty bad.  When we drafted scherff in 2015, our line improved and that's when Cousins blossomed.  I wouldn't be surprised if we see the same thing with our current situation.  A young QB struggling due to constant pressure, who finally takes off when (hopefully) the oline improves.

If for your QB to develop, you need to draft a guard at #5, there's a bigger problem.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@KDawg @Conn

 

JP went out of his way to say if you’re a Commanders fan, you are real happy about today’s practice.  Everyone held their own, the OL was impressive, the team showed fight, etc.  It was the most love I’d heard from those guys in some time.

 

You guys aren’t alone though, there are clips/tweets in here that show it wasn’t all great for the OL.

[Voice_of_Reason]

It's pretty interesting there are such divergent viewpoints from people who were at practice.  JP and BMitch were positive, Mike Jones, not so much.  And while I think the team could get to Paulson, and get him to push a narrative, I don't see that with BMitch in particular, and probably not JP either.  I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel like either of those guys is going to carry the mail for the team, especially now that NBCSports Washington is no longer a partner of the Commanders, and neither is 106.7.  

 

I think the key is going to be if they start making moves, whether they bring in people or start shuffling players around.  If Lucas all of a sudden starts getting some run at RT, or a guard comes in to visit, I mean, that's what I'm looking to see. If that starts happening, then they know they are in trouble.  If they don't, they don't think they are in trouble.  They could be wrong about that, but it would be telling. 

 

One thing I was thinking about: the Wylie signing almost feels a little bit like the WJIII signing, and THAT is terrifying.  They completely blew the evaluation on WJIII in terms of fit, and it took them almost a year and a half to figure it out.  If they blew it on Wylie, they don't have a year and a half to figure it out.  They need to figure it out in the next 2 weeks.  I also find it interesting LG seems to be less concerning than RT at the moment.  

 

I get that I've moved from skeptical to cynical when it comes to reporting in general, but I'm going to wait until a few games in before really coming to any general conclusions about anything.

 

We know that first games are generally, statistically, bad predictors of the way a season is going to go for a team.  Interestingly though, the first 2-4 games, they odds increase significantly even with another game or two.

 

So, we'll see.  And I still think, unless the OL ends up being bottom 5 in the league, with the assumption the defense is what we think they are, EB + Howell + our skill position players can get to 10 wins.  What does that get?  Maybe just an ass kicking in the first round of the playoffs, but at least it would be some progress....

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@KDawg @Conn

 

JP went out of his way to say if you’re a Commanders fan, you are real happy about today’s practice.  Everyone held their own, the OL was impressive, the team showed fight, etc.  It was the most love I’d heard from those guys in some time.

 

You guys aren’t alone though, there are clips/tweets in here that show it wasn’t all great for the OL.

Three possible rebuttals to this post coming, I'd assume:

 

1. Mike Jones said the opposite, and he was at practice.

2. The team somehow has influenced the narrative with JP and BMitch

3. The Raven's DL isn't that good, so it doesn't really mean anything.

 

All of which might be valid except I don't buy #2.  It's possible.  But I dunno, with those 2, I find it unlikely.  I do buy it for Logan Paulson, and maybe Bram (I haven't listened to him, I don't even know if he was at practice).  Both of them work for the team, so I can see how they could be influenced....  I don't think the other beat writers really would be.  The team might push a narrative, (and who would blame them for trying?) but I don't think the other folks would report something other than what they feel is accurate.  

 

I will say, though, if @KDawg said he watched the practice and didn't get a good feeling, I trust his eyes more than most.  But I don't think the entire practice was visible online.  So, I'm not sure what was shown and what wasn't.  

 

Anyway, I dunno.  I can't remember a practice where I've seen such divergent reporting.  To me, that's almost as interesting as the actual practice.  It's pretty wild.  

[KDawg]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

Three possible rebuttals to this post coming, I'd assume:

 

1. Mike Jones said the opposite, and he was at practice.

2. The team somehow has influenced the narrative with JP and BMitch

3. The Raven's DL isn't that good, so it doesn't really mean anything.

 

All of which might be valid except I don't buy #2.  It's possible.  But I dunno, with those 2, I find it unlikely.  I do buy it for Logan Paulson, and maybe Bram (I haven't listened to him, I don't even know if he was at practice).  Both of them work for the team, so I can see how they could be influenced....  I don't think the other beat writers really would be.  The team might push a narrative, (and who would blame them for trying?) but I don't think the other folks would report something other than what they feel is accurate.  

 

I will say, though, if @KDawg said he watched the practice and didn't get a good feeling, I trust his eyes more than most.  But I don't think the entire practice was visible online.  So, I'm not sure what was shown and what wasn't.  

 

Anyway, I dunno.  I can't remember a practice where I've seen such divergent reporting.  To me, that's almost as interesting as the actual practice.  It's pretty wild.  

I watched what I could. I saw more bad than good but there was absolutely some good that occurred. 
 

It is entirely possible that they showed the **** bits from the Commanders. It is the Ravens channel.

 

So we’ll see. I’m not someone who believes that what I see is the whole story or the final

product. 
 

There’s time. 
 

We’ll see.