2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Rolo Tomasie]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Ouch that's an expensive few drinks he had.

[Anselmheifer]

47 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Ok, he's off the draft board for me personally now.  

That’s funny, because my reaction was, “yesssssss”. You wouldn’t want a 1st/2nd round talent in the 3rd/4th? Imagine him in a DT rotation with Allen and Payne? 

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

That’s funny, because my reaction was, “yesssssss”. You wouldn’t want a 1st/2nd round talent in the 3rd/4th? Imagine him in a DT rotation with Allen and Payne? 

 

 

I'm not touching someone who is too stupid to use a ride-share.  Now I know some players (like Dak) have been successful despite getting a DWI before the draft, but you can't take a player like in your first draft if you are Peters.  

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I offered T'Vondre Sweat as an example of big game hunting with one of our second rounders, because he's got a profile that hints at the "foundation building block" ceiling I'm searching for.  He won the Outland Trophy, had a 91.7 PFF score, and spent SB week dominating all of the clowns who lined up in front of him.  He's demonstrated an ability to physically overmatch his peers that is sometimes a good fundamental indicator of NFL potential.  None of this is a guarantee that he can translate to the NFL, and even if he could, there is no guarantee he lives up to his potential.  That's why you have to take these kinds of swings with all of your picks.  If you do, some of your swings will eventually connect for triples and home runs.

Did you know by chance about the DWI or was this just an odd coincidence? We may have a shot at grabbing him a little later now, or does this decision making not alter your grade for him?

[Rex Tomb]

11 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I'm not touching someone who is too stupid to use a ride-share.  Now I know some players (like Dak) have been successful despite getting a DWI before the draft, but you can't take a player like in your first draft if you are Peters.  

Meh, that’s overblown hyperbole.  Of course he can, and he should if we can get this guy in the third, steal!  If he is dumb again and gets another DWI, cut him for pennies on the dollar.  

[Skinsinparadise]

That's been my this years Keaton Mitchell, UDFA in this draft, good to see PFF finally paying him a little attention

 

 

 

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

Did you know by chance about the DWI or was this just an odd coincidence? We may have a shot at grabbing him a little later now, or does this decision making not alter your grade for him?

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

That’s funny, because my reaction was, “yesssssss”. You wouldn’t want a 1st/2nd round talent in the 3rd/4th? Imagine him in a DT rotation with Allen and Payne? 

 

 

I see the value of acquiring someone like him on a pure football level.

 

It's exactly the kind of move we'd be likely to make during the Bruce Allen era. Along with all sorts of tales on how we're going to take him under our wing and the kid has learned his lesson and he's repentent for what he did and he realizes this is his big chance and final opportunity yada yada yada...

 

I believe this isn't the time for us to take chances like this, even for a very talented player.

 

Why not? 

 

We're in the process of changing our team's culture, and so far things seem to be headed in the right direction, but we haven't established a damn thing yet.

 

Don't get things twisted. This is only the very beginning of trying to change. It is a long process that is extrenely difficult to manage. Our last coach despite his best efforts clearly failed miserably at it.

 

We're not ready, or prepared, to support or take a risk on, the proverbial "rotten apple" that might well end up spoiling the entire batch.

 

One day, in the not too distant future,   I expect that we will have a team and a locker room that has established a strong culture capable of dealing with a player with serious character concerns.

 

One day, just not today.

 

Edited April 8 by CommanderInTheRye

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Ok, he's off the draft board for me personally now.  

It's going to kill his draft stock, rightfully so, but I wouldn't take him off my board.  He could become a mega bargain.  What if he goes in the fifth round now?  He's a legit top 50 player in the class.

[Est.1974]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Dallas will pick him and get a steal.

[mhd24]

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

It's going to kill his draft stock, rightfully so, but I wouldn't take him off my board.  He could become a mega bargain.  What if he goes in the fifth round now?  He's a legit top 50 player in the class.

 

Yeah, but it's one thing with a Trey Smith type situation (where doctors were basically saying do not draft this player) and another with this type of situation.  Plus, with the statements that he made during the draft process (his partying days were behind him) and he pulls this stunt?  Can't trust someone like this.  DQ & Peters are building an entire new roster have brought in a specific type of player in FA (Wagner, Ekeler, etc) who love football and are total pros.  Plus, he's probably looking at a suspension on top of this I think. 

[Koolblue13]

Meh, first DUI and nobody got hurt. We know zero details. Was he going 100mph racing someone or just over the limit and rolled a stop sign. We're setting up a culture of football dogs in the locker room and it might be just what he needs. Kids a borderline first rounder, who'd be a steal at 50.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Meh, first DUI and nobody got hurt. We know zero details. Was he going 100mph racing someone or just over the limit and rolled a stop sign. We're setting up a culture of football dogs in the locker room and it might be just what he needs. Kids a borderline first rounder, who'd be a steal at 50.

 

 

Gotta disagree with you brother.

 

Kids a con man. Has a history of this behavior-- and that's only the stuff that's gotten out. Lord only knows what the college has kept hidden behind the scenes.

 

He's telling coaches and GMs in interviews whatever he thinks they want to hear.

 

Promising them the world, saying he's a changed man, he's learned his lesson, his hell raising days are done-- he just wants to be a great football player and a model citizen.

 

Then he goes out and does whatever the hell he wants too, consequences be damned, when he thinks nobody's looking. 

 

Let the Cowboys draft him. That's their M.O. under Jerry anyway.

 

A team filled with supremely talented players lacking character and resolve. A team of front runners and trash talkers when things are going great. But as soon as adversity hits they start pointing fingers, going their separate ways, and turning on each other like a pit of vipers.

 

Character matters.

 

I'll pass.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by CommanderInTheRye

[Koolblue13]

17 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Gotta disagree with you brother.

 

Kids a con man. Has a history of this behavior-- and that's only the stuff that's gotten out. Lord only knows what the college has kept hidden behind the scenes.

 

He's telling coaches and GMs in interviews whatever he thinks they want to hear.

 

Promising them the world, saying he's a changed man, he's learned his lesson, his hell raising days are done-- he just wants to be a great football player and a model citizen.

 

Then he goes out and does whatever the hell he wants too, consequences be damned, when he thinks nobody's looking. 

 

Let the Cowboys draft him. That's their M.O. under Jerry anyway.

 

A team filled with supremely talented players lacking character and resolve. A team of front runners and trash talkers when things are going great. But as soon as adversity hits they start pointing fingers, going their separate ways, and turning on each other like a pit of vipers.

 

Character matters.

 

I'll pass.

 

 

 

 

Parsons is definitely not the Cowboys problem.

 

I don't know much about Sweats past admittedly.

[Going Commando]

54 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

He's telling coaches and GMs in interviews whatever he thinks they want to hear.

 

Every player does this.  They'd be fools not to.  And plenty of truly great players were no angels.  Some of the best have done really bad things in their lives.  Just last year Jalen Carter was street racing over 100 mph at 3 AM after a night of partying in an incident where a teammate and recruiting staffer died and he fled the scene, probably to sober up, and the kid still went top ten and dominated the NFL as a rookie.  The most competitive levels of this game hone aggression and a lack of concern for consequences.

 

Ron built a team of choir boys because that is the only type of player he can coach, and now we can't match up with the good teams in the league, especially in the trenches.  When you watch Sweat line up against players who are supposed to be his peers at the Senior Bowl, and see him just effortlessly play right through guys who are trying to hang on to him for dear life, his superiority becomes apparent.  The risk with Sweat isn't that he lied in interviews, it's about if he has a drinking problem that will put his availability as a player in jeopardy.  You mitigate that risk on draft day by letting him fall into a range where his superiority over all of the other players available becomes so manifest that the potential reward totally outweighs the risk.

[DWinzit]

Well, he has a drinking problem and a decision making problem. I'd imagine teams will really studying up on his history to get a feel for other questionable decisions he has made.

[shemp nixon]

7 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Dallas will pick him and get a steal.

Or the Eagles.

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

That’s funny, because my reaction was, “yesssssss”. You wouldn’t want a 1st/2nd round talent in the 3rd/4th? Imagine him in a DT rotation with Allen and Payne? 

 

Yeah that was my reaction too.  I'm aware that it's cynical, but I got a little excited because I think it will drop him into a range where we might actually draft him.  We weren't going to pick him at 40, but 78 or 100 starts feeling like "value pick of the draft" territory.  I'd prob have +60 value or more on picking him at 100.

 

I have been imagining him in a rotation with Allen and Payne.  I would love to have some elite size in our IDL group, and I would love to have a dominant player that can keep Allen and Payne's snap counts from hitting 800-900 territory.  The only guys who thrive with that level of workload are the Terminator machines like Derrick Brown and Aaron Donald.  But we can't sub our guys out for the likes of John Ridgeway and Phidarian Mathis and Benning Potoa'e.  Daron having elevated snap counts has been a problem for us his entire career, and it's going to get worse now that he's in the second half of his 20s.  And Allen playing into the 800s is flat out mismanagement IMO.  At his size, with his shoulders, and with the rugged nature of his game, he should be on a 700 snap pitch count.  No more than 40 per game.

 

We didn't sign any IDLs in FA either, so there isn't anyone that could block Sweat from playing as a rookie.  There also isn't anyone of quality in our pipeline either.

[Anselmheifer]

19 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah that was my reaction too.  I'm aware that it's cynical, but I got a little excited because I think it will drop him into a range where we might actually draft him.  We weren't going to pick him at 40, but 78 or 100 starts feeling like "value pick of the draft" territory.  I'd prob have +60 value or more on picking him at 100.

 

I have been imagining him in a rotation with Allen and Payne.  I would love to have some elite size in our IDL group, and I would love to have a dominant player that can keep Allen and Payne's snap counts from hitting 800-900 territory.  The only guys who thrive with that level of workload are the Terminator machines like Derrick Brown and Aaron Donald.  But we can't sub our guys out for the likes of John Ridgeway and Phidarian Mathis and Benning Potoa'e.  Daron having elevated snap counts has been a problem for us his entire career, and it's going to get worse now that he's in the second half of his 20s.  And Allen playing into the 800s is flat out mismanagement IMO.  At his size, with his shoulders, and with the rugged nature of his game, he should be on a 700 snap pitch count.  No more than 40 per game.

 

We didn't sign any IDLs in FA either, so there isn't anyone that could block Sweat from playing as a rookie.  There also isn't anyone of quality in our pipeline either.

 

I know it's cynical. And at this point, I don't care. Is it worse than keeping Jamin Davis on the team? No. Look at Tyreek Hill. That guy sounds like a domestic abuse sociopath. Obviously, there is a line. 

Imagine how much more physical our run defense would be with a guy like that. And to get him in the late 3rd potentially? Presumably, we will now have our QB. We need to start grabbing these Dawand Jones players, that are obviously talented, and drop further than they should. 

[kingdaddy]

24 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I know it's cynical. And at this point, I don't care. Is it worse than keeping Jamin Davis on the team? No. Look at Tyreek Hill. That guy sounds like a domestic abuse sociopath. Obviously, there is a line. 

Imagine how much more physical our run defense would be with a guy like that. And to get him in the late 3rd potentially? Presumably, we will now have our QB. We need to start grabbing these Dawand Jones players, that are obviously talented, and drop further than they should. 

I don't know about this....the 3rd round seems high for a guy with potential character issues, we have too many holes to fill and DT isn't really one of the higher priorities this year. Let someone else roll the dice on a self-admitted partier who just got a DWI...and is about to get a nice chunk of change so he can party even more. We need a reliable player with a 3rd round pick, maybe a safety, WR or TE? 

[Going Commando]

23 hours ago, Conn said:

His argument is just that winning games and keeping the staff employed for organizational stability is actually your best bet at helping “foment a good QB development environment”, so it doesn’t matter what positions you draft as long as you take swings at elite players and keep doing it year after year. I think it’s a fairly compelling argument even though I get your OL/TE/WR thing

 

That's a good summary of my philosophy.  I just want to stress that I think we need to take a very zoomed out view when it comes to the draft.  It's devilishly hard to do this because there are so many unknowns clouding our perspective.  In situations where there is a vacuum of information, principles become really important to lean on for making decisions.  That's what BPA is.  If you trust it and follow the principle with discipline, then it will save you from the infamous kind of mistakes that make team builders look incompetent in hindsight, but really just stem from a loss of perspective in the moment that can happen to anyone.

 

I also want to stress that I think we need to get away from such a position-bound view of how to build a football team.  Outside of QB (and the dedicated ST positions), there really isn't any position that is head and shoulders above others in value, such that you can justify having a B level player at X position over an A level one at Y.  I am sticking to my tower building metaphor to illustrate the problem of how to build a team.  The Chiefs have a dynasty build where their two other mega blocks after their QB have been a TE and DT.  The team they just won a SB with has three IOLs and a slot DB as their other best players.  The best teams are built by accumulating the best players.  That seems really basic, but it frequently gets lost in the huge variety of teambuilding discussions we on ES.

 

Every year in this thread, we spend half our energy posting about positions and needs.  We go around in circles on this, and sometimes can't even come to a consensus on what our immediate position needs will actually be.  I think we'd learn a lot more from each other if, when we want to write about a specific position in a post, we instead swapped out the position with the name of a specific player.

[Dah-Dee]

 

[DogofWar1]

 

[Warhead36]

As Doc Walker would say, we could use some felons on our team.

[DogofWar1]

As for DT Sweat I think you sit him down and talk to him.  As someone who represents DUI clients a lot, there are different types of guys.  Some are unlucky and acting dumb but will learn their lesson and grow from it, and then there's others that just were too dumb to suffer them.

 

A 0.08 BAC where you drank a beer and barely feel it but got grabbed bc you sped a little is way different than a 0.25 where you nearly kill a bunch of people.

[Koolblue13]

32 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Interesting. Kinda like I've been saying. Round two could very well be DE and CB and OT, RB, WR in the 3rd.

 

I definitely think that's where the value is going to be for BPA.