2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

I wouldnt mind using one of our 3rds along with our high 2nd to move back into the 1st for a T if someone like Faunaga or Latham slide’s into the 20s. Can address interior OL with our other 2nd. 

[seantaylor=god]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldnt mind using one of our 3rds along with our high 2nd to move back into the 1st for a T if someone like Faunaga or Latham slide’s into the 20s. Can address interior OL with our other 2nd. 

Agree. Guys with real OT traits (not short armed ROT/OG tweeners who are almost certainly guards) are going to go fast; we might get lucky and one lasts to the second but not a certainty.

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

Agree. Guys with real OT traits (not short armed ROT/OG tweeners who are almost certainly guards) are going to go fast; we might get lucky and one lasts to the second but not a certainty.

Yeah there is quality T depth but there will be a run in the late teens/early 20s.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was watching Erick All, TE from Iowa.  He's a wild projection.

 

I love TEs from Iowa so i am a bit biased and he looks the part.    6'5, 250.  Can block and can move well for his size.  Looks like a prototype TE from Iowa in a good way.

 

He's got some nice double moves to seperate, some good delayed routes, finds the seam-openings against zone defenses.  He blocks fairly well but needs to sink his hips more to maintain leverage-balance.   He's good after the catch, not the easiest dude to bring down.

 

Played previously in Michigan and was a captain there. 

 

But multiple major injuries in his career.  He has a 16% drop rate which is crazy.  I saw drops and even a fumble in a game I watched so he's sloppy with the ball. 

 

I am guessing he's a late rounder or goes undrafted.  But heck if he's an UDFA in particular what the hell?

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was watching Erick All, TE from Iowa.  He's a wild projection.

 

I love TEs from Iowa so i am a bit biased and he looks the part.    6'5, 250.  Can block and can move well for his size.  Looks like a prototype TE from Iowa in a good way.

 

He's got some nice double moves to seperate, some good delayed routes, finds the seam-openings against zone defenses.  He blocks fairly well but needs to sink his hips more to maintain leverage-balance.   He's good after the catch, not the easiest dude to bring down.

 

Played previously in Michigan and was a captain there. 

 

But multiple major injuries in his career.  He has a 16% drop rate which is crazy.  I saw drops and even a fumble in a game I watched so he's sloppy with the ball. 

 

I am guessing he's a late rounder or goes undrafted.  But heck if he's an UDFA in particular what the hell?

 

 

 

 

Ivan Pace has taught me that if there is a target you really like for UDFA and think highly of you may as well take them in the 6th or 7th. Because at least you really like them. 

[DWinzit]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think so. 

 

I like Stover and Sinnott. Sanders is a good receiving option.

 

Like most draft tidbits I think there is some major buy in to media narrative.

 

I'm not saying this TE class or RB class in particular are going to set the world on fire. But "sucks" is a strong response. 

If they wanted to look 3-5 round for TE's which often works out okay, there are a few others I could see interest in like: Holker, Bell or even Yurosek.

 

But yes, one of those three would be a good addition. Over the past month I find myself becoming a bigger fan of Sinnott

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Ivan Pace has taught me that if there is a target you really like for UDFA and think highly of you may as well take them in the 6th or 7th. Because at least you really like them. 

 

Yeah I actually thought Pace would go 3th-5th.  I looked foolish when we did the board's draft where i took him for the Dolphins but it doesn't look too bad now.  

 

But I agree with your point.  Among the UDFAs, off the top of my head Pace and Keaton Mitchell were two of my favs.  And both have looked good in their rookie seasons. Mitchell's though marred with injuries.  Get them in the 7th. 

 

Aside from the poor drafting, this FO has been nonexistent as to engaging in UDFA.  I recall that one draft season where they only took one UDFA player.  Every year we watch some of the players we've liked hit UDFA and watch other teams including in our division grab them. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

If they wanted to look 3-5 round for TE's which often works out okay, there are a few others I could see interest in like: Holker, Bell or even Yurosek.

 

But yes, one of those three would be a good addition. Over the past month I find myself becoming a bigger fan of Sinnott

 

I was talking about Sinnott today on the FA thread.  I'd like him as long as he runs well.  If he goes like 4.8 I am much less interested. 

 

I was watching Bell.   He's another dude hard to figure out.  Seems more like an H back at his size.  But he has some juice to him.

Edited January 11 by Skinsinparadise

[seantaylor=god]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Aside from the poor drafting, this FO has been nonexistent as to engaging in UDFA.  I recall that one draft season where they only took one UDFA player.  Every year we watch some of the players we've liked hit UDFA and watch other teams including in our division grab them. 

Tough to keep and attract top UDFA when you keep every single draft pick, to prove how smart you are. 
 

This will change with a new FO, I expect.

[Est.1974]

35 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think so. 

 

I like Stover and Sinnott. Sanders is a good receiving option.

 

Like most draft tidbits I think there is some major buy in to media narrative.

 

I'm not saying this TE class or RB class in particular are going to set the world on fire. But "sucks" is a strong response. 

Agree, the key is to get in before it’s too late and the value has gone. 

36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldnt mind using one of our 3rds along with our high 2nd to move back into the 1st for a T if someone like Faunaga or Latham slide’s into the 20s. Can address interior OL with our other 2nd. 

I would hate us trading up for OL, especially if the narrative is to sit at #2 and potentially not be aggressive in getting QB1.

 

Wouldn’t constitute a structured approach to me.

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Ivan Pace has taught me that if there is a target you really like for UDFA and think highly of you may as well take them in the 6th or 7th. Because at least you really like them. 

I think that’s what good FOs do already. Hopefully we start to.

[Skinsinparadise]

Smart for him

 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Yeah I actually thought Pace would go 3th-5th.  I looked foolish when we did the board's draft where i took him for the Dolphins but it doesn't look too bad now.  

 

Don't feel foolish. I'm the one feeling foolish. I'm usually pretty confident in my assessments but Michael Penx shot that all to hell. 

 

Anyway, I really like a lot of players on the Kansas Jayhawks, especially their DB's. Most are returning but another very interesting LB prospect is #6 Taiwan Berryhill. S Kenny Logan is another that good be a great Day 3 value pick. Berryhill moves well. I'll be interested in keeping tabs on him. 

[DWinzit]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was talking about Sinnott today on the FA thread.  I'd like him as long as he runs well.  If he goes like 4.8 I am much less interested. 

 

I was watching Bell.   He's another dude hard to figure out.  Seems more like an H back at his size.  But he has some juice to him.

Yeah no TE hitting 4.8 is ideal at this stage, need for at least a little speed.

 

I have a soft spot in my heart for H back style players. They add so many options to the offense and for the DC to be concerned with

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

Tough to keep and attract top UDFA when you keep every single draft pick, to prove how smart you are. 
 

This will change with a new FO, I expect.

 

After every draft some regulars here including me often have give or take 10 guys on our radar, its amazing Ron would grab zero of them and just about always every team in our division would grab one or two of those UDFAs.  Only UDFA Ron signed that I recall touting that I wanted as a late rounder was Jaret Patterson.

 

Not that UDFA is the be all and end all.  But to build a team be aggressive on all counts.  And Ron didn't have an aggressive bone in his body.

Edited January 11 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Ivan Pace has taught me that if there is a target you really like for UDFA and think highly of you may as well take them in the 6th or 7th. Because at least you really like them. 

I would have never let him leave the 6th round. I do agree you try to gather an extra 7th if there's a player you really need or desire at the end of the draft. I probably would have attempted to grab Bagent also last year

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Ivan Pace has taught me that if there is a target you really like for UDFA and think highly of you may as well take them in the 6th or 7th. Because at least you really like them. 

But then how do you draft your long snapper of the future?

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Smart for him

 

The WR class is super top heavy and shallow this year.  Ladd might go round two now, even if he runs a 4.59 at 185 pounds.

[Chump Bailey]

I'm not sure when we will look CB in the draft but I do think it will be sooner than later. 

 

I really like this player though I doubt he gets past the 2nd round:

 

Missouri CB #2 Ennis Rakestraw Jr.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

I would hate us trading up for OL, especially if the narrative is to sit at #2 and potentially not be aggressive in getting QB1.

 

Wouldn’t constitute a structured approach to me.

I don’t think this tracks necessarily (note: this is academic as I hope we don’t trade back up into the 1st, but I could see arguments for it). If you’re perfectly happy with the guy you’ll get at QB at #2, there’s nothing saying you can’t then see the value of trading up into a higher tier of OT prospects with your two 2nds. I don’t think I’d do it but I don’t have all the info right now.

 

Just don’t agree that it “wouldn’t constitute a structured approach”. That only makes sense if you are totally obsessed with trading up to 1.1 and disappointed that they didn’t do it. There’s a very real chance our future FO doesn’t see the value in that because they love the QB they’ll get at #2—not because they disagree with trading up in principle. 

[Going Commando]

PFF's big board only has two TEs before day three range.  I don't think many will get drafted this year, and most will go in the fifth-seventh it looks like.  That's our range to address the position in the draft IMO.  For that purpose, I do like Sinnott and Stover.  But my value pick is Brant Kuithe at the very end of the draft.  My case: he's actually like a round two or three talent with a UDFA knee.

 

I've been holding a candle for this dude since he broke out in 2019, what feels like 20 years ago.  He's actually got a seventh year of eligibility if he wants it because he got a medical redshirt for 2023, but I think he's probably pretty tired of going to college by now.

 

When Dalton Kincaid transferred to Utah in 2020, Kuithe was actually the lead TE and weapon in that room until he hurt his knee early in 2022.  It was not a clean ACL tear, he tore the meniscus too and it apparently settled in an unusual way in his knee joint that complicated the surgery and rehab, and eventually led to the development of a lesion on his ACL that gave him severe pain and left him unable to play.  Long story short, he had to get a second surgery in 2023 to fix that issue, and now he says that he's finally getting back to normal.

 

I want to see how he runs, and how much strength he was able to get back in that leg, but if he looks normal, then I would take him with a seventh round comp choice.  He's a pretty unique receiving weapon at the TE position.  Route running beast between the numbers with legit burst out of his breaks.  Great at adjusting to the ball and bringing it down in traffic.  Surprising run after catch ability.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Ball Security]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wise move on his part. Wonder if Arch goes (Bama)

[The Consigliere]

One last note worth mentioning. I've heard some posters say that another reason to take the QB is to bring some excitement and hope back to a moribund, despairing fanbase often outnumbered in the stands. Let me say, straight away, while acknowledging that that is true (Snyder and the Post Gibbs I years accomplished probably the greatest reversal in attendance trends in the NFL ever, from the most rabid fanbase with exponentially long lines waiting to buy season tickets, to the stands habitually featuring more away fans than home fans in little more than a decade post Gibbs I), that it doesn't matter in the least.

 

If this team starts winning, say, makes the playoffs in back to back seasons for the first time in 32 years, the stands will fill up. Nothing brings fans like winning, period. Nothing else matters. This is a sleeping, dormant fanbase that has been pummeled for nearly 35 years by unceasingly horrible seasons, and the once every four or fifth year playoff run being immediately followed, every single time by a horror show season ('00 Free Agent nightmare, '06 fall back to dog manure, '08 Zorn Maroon and Gold horror show, '13 RGIII is over funeral, '16, oh, we really are gonna run Cousins out of town, the Heinickie mania stupidity of '21), and by nearly 25 years of Darth Dip----'s ownership from '99-'22. An owner that isn't the spawn of satan's moronic brother, and winning, actual winning, by building the right way? That will take care of the fandom. The fandom won't be back for a glossy QB, it will be back for a genuine plan that works and pays off with winning. Simple as that. Snyder has already been Trebuchet'd out of the building and onto his Darth Sidious Yacht from hell, out of our lives forever, and now we had a nearly perfect tank season that ended as perfectly as possible for a rebuild (as long as don't do something totally asinine like go after Billichek). We do this right, the fans will come and stay. Fan interest should be of no concern whatsoever to the running of the team, the running of the front office in terms of fan relations, sure, but no football decision should ever be connected in even the most threadbare way with appeasing fans. Everything is about building a long term winning franchise. That's it, in terms of football decision making. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

PFF's big board only has two TEs before day three range.  I don't think many will get drafted this year, and most will go in the fifth-seventh it looks like.  That's our range to address the position in the draft IMO.  For that purpose, I do like Sinnott and Stover.  But my value pick is Brant Kuithe at the very end of the draft.  My case: he's actually like a round two or three talent with a UDFA knee.

 

I've been holding a candle for this dude since he broke out in 2019, what feels like 20 years ago.  He's actually got a seventh year of eligibility if he wants it because he got a medical redshirt for 2023, but I think he's probably pretty tired of going to college by now.

 

When Dalton Kincaid transferred to Utah in 2020, Kuithe was actually the lead TE and weapon in that room until he hurt his knee early in 2022.  It was not a clean ACL tear, he tore the meniscus too and it apparently settled in an unusual way in his knee joint that complicated the surgery and rehab, and eventually led to the development of a lesion on his ACL that gave him severe pain and left him unable to play.  Long story short, he had to get a second surgery in 2023 to fix that issue, and now he says that he's finally getting back to normal.

 

I want to see how he runs, and how much strength he was able to get back in that leg, but if he looks normal, then I would take him with a seventh round comp choice.  He's a pretty unique receiving weapon at the TE position.  Route running beast between the numbers with legit burst out of his breaks.  Great at adjusting to the ball and bringing it down in traffic.  Surprising run after catch ability.

 

I haven't watched him yet but will do so.  6'2, 229 seems a bit small, so assume based on your description and his size he's a Y TE-H back type

 

 

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

One last note worth mentioning. I've heard some posters say that another reason to take the QB is to bring some excitement and hope back to a moribund, despairing fanbase often outnumbered in the stands. Let me say, straight away, while acknowledging that that is true (Snyder and the Post Gibbs I years accomplished probably the greatest reversal in attendance trends in the NFL ever, from the most rabid fanbase with exponentially long lines waiting to buy season tickets, to the stands habitually featuring more away fans than home fans in little more than a decade post Gibbs I), that it doesn't matter in the least.

 

If this team starts winning, say, makes the playoffs in back to back seasons for the first time in 32 years, the stands will fill up. Nothing brings fans like winning, period. Nothing else matters. This is a sleeping, dormant fanbase that has been pummeled for nearly 35 years by unceasingly horrible seasons, and the once every four or fifth year playoff run being immediately followed, every single time by a horror show season ('00 Free Agent nightmare, '06 fall back to dog manure, '08 Zorn Maroon and Gold horror show, '13 RGIII is over funeral, '16, oh, we really are gonna run Cousins out of town, the Heinickie mania stupidity of '21), and by nearly 25 years of Darth Dip----'s ownership from '99-'22. An owner that isn't the spawn of satan's moronic brother, and winning, actual winning, by building the right way? That will take care of the fandom. The fandom won't be back for a glossy QB, it will be back for a genuine plan that works and pays off with winning. Simple as that. Snyder has already been Trebuchet'd out of the building and onto his Darth Sidious Yacht from hell, out of our lives forever, and now we had a nearly perfect tank season that ended as perfectly as possible for a rebuild (as long as don't do something totally asinine like go after Billichek). We do this right, the fans will come and stay. Fan interest should be of no concern whatsoever to the running of the team, the running of the front office in terms of fan relations, sure, but no football decision should ever be connected in even the most threadbare way with appeasing fans. Everything is about building a long term winning franchise. That's it, in terms of football decision making. 

I'm not sure if just winning is enough.

 

In 2018 we started 6-3 but it was a mirage and the fans knew.

 

You gotta win but you gotta win in a way that's sustainable that can bring excitement. And nothing does that better then a franchise QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

One last note worth mentioning. I've heard some posters say that another reason to take the QB is to bring some excitement and hope back to a moribund, despairing fanbase often outnumbered in the stands. Let me say, straight away, while acknowledging that that is true (Snyder and the Post Gibbs I years accomplished probably the greatest reversal in attendance trends in the NFL ever, from the most rabid fanbase with exponentially long lines waiting to buy season tickets, to the stands habitually featuring more away fans than home fans in little more than a decade post Gibbs I), that it doesn't matter in the least.

 

If this team starts winning, say, makes the playoffs in back to back seasons for the first time in 32 years, the stands will fill up. Nothing brings fans like winning, period. Nothing else matters. This is a sleeping, dormant fanbase that has been pummeled for nearly 35 years by unceasingly horrible seasons, and the once every four or fifth year playoff run being immediately followed, every single time by a horror show season ('00 Free Agent nightmare, '06 fall back to dog manure, '08 Zorn Maroon and Gold horror show, '13 RGIII is over funeral, '16, oh, we really are gonna run Cousins out of town, the Heinickie mania stupidity of '21), and by nearly 25 years of Darth Dip----'s ownership from '99-'22. An owner that isn't the spawn of satan's moronic brother, and winning, actual winning, by building the right way? That will take care of the fandom. The fandom won't be back for a glossy QB, it will be back for a genuine plan that works and pays off with winning. Simple as that. Snyder has already been Trebuchet'd out of the building and onto his Darth Sidious Yacht from hell, out of our lives forever, and now we had a nearly perfect tank season that ended as perfectly as possible for a rebuild (as long as don't do something totally asinine like go after Billichek). We do this right, the fans will come and stay. Fan interest should be of no concern whatsoever to the running of the team, the running of the front office in terms of fan relations, sure, but no football decision should ever be connected in even the most threadbare way with appeasing fans. Everything is about building a long term winning franchise. That's it, in terms of football decision making. 

 

I hear you but this is the typical strawman argument I see to the fan excitement argument.

 

A.  no one who makes the argument suggests that winning doesn't bring back fans

 

B. no one who makes the argument suggests that a shiny new QB coupled with losing brings the fans back.

 

But things aren't always binary where its just one thing versus the other or that you can only slay one dragon but not two. 

 

I've heard over my lifetime many GMs talk especially in retrospect of deals they've made liking the bonus of jacking up fan excitement.  It's an entertainment business.  And yes it is a bonus to entertain.  Good high profile QBs help bring relevance and entertainment to a franchise -- scoring points is entertaining.  I know its sort of uncool to say this or that player-transaction jacks up excitement too.  But its a real reality. 

 

I used to say all the time on the Bruce FO thread that the dude is going to kill what's left of the fan base because its bad enough to lose but its even worse to do that and be boring.

 

 

Edited January 11 by Skinsinparadise