ThatNFLChick Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Just to further my point, the Jets got Aaron Rodgers and will now be attempting to trade Zach Wilson rather then keep him around even though he's young because they know he is not their guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 The Drake Maye disrespect... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said: Just to further my point, the Jets got Aaron Rodgers and will now be attempting to trade Zach Wilson rather then keep him around even though he's young because they know he is not their guy How are you equating a complete scrub like Zach Wilson to Sam Howell??? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 42 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Howell can not mentor anyone. 🥴 We should not want someone who got benched 3 times in a season for poor play mentoring anyone else. This conversation is becoming absolutely insane to me. You want him teaching the same bad mechanics and poor field vision that he has shown? We also have no idea what Howell would net, so we should find out. I believe Gardner Minshew netted a 5th or 6th round pick. Howell costing less than a veteran doesn't mean anything since the veteran's experience would be 100 times more valuable than anything Sam could offer a rookie. Yes, you're ending it there if you are taking a QB in the first round anyway? Taking a QB in the first round flat out says you don't believe that Sam is the guy (benching him 3 times in the season has shown that too but for some reason people are still holding out hope). Also please tell me you are not comparing Brett Favre, Joe Montana and even Carson Wentz to....Sam Howell? Rodgers and Mahomes and all those guys were learning from Brett Favre and Alex Smith who had tons of success in the league, took their team to multiple championships and played at a high level for YEARSSSS. It is not even remotely the same as Howell who hasn't had one iota of the same success. A veteran QB is not teaching a rookie footwork and mechanics. That is what a QB coach and assistant QB coach do. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 9 minutes ago, method man said: How are you equating a complete scrub like Zach Wilson to Sam Howell??? Some would say a QB that's been benched 3 times in a season is also a sc..... But the bottom line is, when teams have decided the guy isn't their guy, they move on. Thats why the Cardinals traded Rosen when they got Kyler Murray and why Davis Mills started last year and was QB3 until Case Keenum got hurt and isn't expected to be on the team next year 4 minutes ago, method man said: A veteran QB is not teaching a rookie footwork and mechanics. That is what a QB coach and assistant QB coach do. Really? Want me to post what Mahomes said Alex Smith helped him with? He even learned his cadence and how to command a huddle from him. That's why after the Super Bowl in 2020 and last year he went out of his wsy to publicly thank Alex for his mentorship. Edited January 7 by ThatNFLChick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_1972 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Some would say a QB that's been benched 3 times in a season is also a sc..... But the bottom line is, when teams have decided the guy isn't their guy, they move on. Thats why the Cardinals traded Rosen when they got Kyler Murray and why Davis Mills started last year and was QB3 until Case Keenum got hurt and isn't expected to be on the team next year Really? Want me to post what Mahomes said Alex Smith helped him with? He even learned his cadence and how to command a huddle from him. That's why after the Super Bowl in 2020 and last year he went out of his wsy to publicly thank Alex for his mentorship. You've been making some very good points here and to an extent, I agree with you. However, I think continuing to talk about Howell being benched 3 times doesn't acknowledge the horrible OL he was forced to deal with all season, the terrible head coaching, etc. At this point, I've moved on from thinking he's "our guy", but I still don't think we know what he's capable of since we really didn't put him in a position to succeed this year. Unfortunately, that will be another team's job to find out. And for the record, he is in no way close to being the bust that Wilson or Rosen is. Not by a country mile. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Going Commando said: Picking a QB later in round one is not giving Howell another year. He'd be benched the first multi interception game that he has. We need to get out of the QB desert mindset that this team has operated with for generations. Good teams don't ****foot around with QB. They pick a guy and form the QB-HC marriage and get to work. Any more indecisiveness and half assed attempts to pick a QB are unacceptable. Particularly when we might pick second overall in a historic QB class. If we end up picking second, then the new regime needs to take advantage of this golden opportunity, pick Drake Maye, trade Howell, and start building up an offense around Maye. Or if you don't believe trade down, there are (Choices). The top QB's in the league were picked from 6th on down with. Stroud, Lawrence, Tua are the flip side so far no rings yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 20 minutes ago, method man said: How are you equating a complete scrub like Zach Wilson to Sam Howell??? Agreed, Wilson has been more terrible for longer than Howell. Totally different situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: Does anybody else watch Jaheim Bell and think he’s a San Francisco type player? Fast, but physical. Great YAC guy. Versatile. I could see Jaheim being a real weapon here with a real QB1 and a creative offensive coordinator I partake in our ES GM Mock Draft scenario each March and Bell reminds me of someone I selected in the 2nd round about 6 years ago - TE Gerald Everett Chargers. I don't think he's quite as talented an athlete as Gerald but likely close. Zach Wilson's problems are more on the attitude, maturity and mental side than anything else. He does have a legit NFL arm IMO. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs most. Edited January 7 by Chump Bailey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 15 minutes ago, KillBill26 said: Agreed, Wilson has been more terrible for longer than Howell. Totally different situation. Cool. Lets compare him to Davis Mills. In 2022 Davis Mills was in his 2nd year in the league, just like Sam. He started 15 games for the Texans and had 17 TDs and 15 INTs. The Houston Texans still picked CJ Stroud with the #2 pick, have Case Keenum as the vet to back him up and demoted Mills to the #3, inactive most game days and likely not with the team next year. Edited January 7 by ThatNFLChick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 31 minutes ago, KDawg said: Conversely, Odunze and Polk could be looking as good as they are because of Penix. The best QBs elevate their casts, right? All of them could be looking as good as they are because they fit the system, too. Welcome to cluster**** city, residence: Draftniks trying to figure this **** out. IT's about the Rings and how you get there, Not just the top QB of the draft. many other parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 12 minutes ago, KillBill26 said: Agreed, Wilson has been more terrible for longer than Howell. Totally different situation. Not to mention what it took to trade up for a top spot to draft Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I found this after my post about Penix just FYI. Not that PFF guys are always right certainly but Connor is one of the better analysts there IMO: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Cool. Lets compare him to Davis Mills. In 2022 Davis Mills was in his 2nd year in the league, just like Sam. He started 15 games for the Texans and had 17 TDs and 15 INTs. The Houston Texans still picked CJ Stroud with the #2 pick, went out and got Case Keenum to be the vet to back him up and demoted Mills to the #3, inactive most game days and likely not with the team next year. I think Sam Howell has shown more promise than Davis mills, and the Texans still elected to keep Davis mills in the fold this season. Maybe we bring in a vet to mentor the rookie, but I'd like to keep Howell in the fold next season. He is cheap and has starting experience. Then after 2024, we re-assess. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 6 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said: IT's about the Rings and how you get there, Not just the top QB of the draft. many other parts. This post made me think of Motörhead and Triple H’s theme… ”It’s all about the Game and how you play it. All about control and if you can take it. All about your debt and if you can pay it.” Not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seantaylor=god Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) Probably the most likely scenario is that our new OC will want a veteran who is familiar with his scheme to come in and help with install, mentoring, etc. I just don’t see why the Sam Howell hate is necessary. He’s young, cheap, showed promise, and won’t be a distraction in the locker room. He’s a good dude, and he didn’t play well the end of the year. I don’t think he sucks, and why should we assume he won’t get better in a new offense with new coaches? I don’t think he’s going to be some destabilizing force that we have to jettison. That’s all I’m saying. And I am not convinced there are really great FA vet QB options that I would like. Jacoby is not going to come back here, IMO, and who knows if he is even a scheme fit. Edited January 7 by seantaylor=god 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 7 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said: Probably the most likely scenario is that our new OC will want a veteran who is familiar with his scheme to come in and help with install, mentoring, etc. I just don’t see why the Sam Howell hate is necessary. He’s young, cheap, showed promise, and won’t be a distraction in the locker room. He’s a good dude, and he didn’t play well the end of the year. I don’t think he sucks, and why should we assume he won’t get better in a new offense it’s new coaches? I don’t think he’s going to be some destabilizing force that we have to jettison. That’s all I’m saying. And I am not convinced there are really great FA vet QB options that I would like. Jacoby is not going to come back here, IMO, and who knows if he is even a scheme fit. Saying I don't think its necessary to keep him on the team and that a vet who has had success to mentor a rookie is a better idea than Sam as a backup doesn't mean I hate him. I just am not emotional about keeping him and am realistic about the fact that the most successful young QBs have a veteran as a backup and there's a very valid reason for that. I also don't think there is any point in devoting any actual resources to seeing if Sam can get better if we have committed to taking a QB with the #2 pick. All of the focus, attention, scheme, support, etc should be given to that rookie QB. If other QBs happen to learn along the way, cool, but any idea of him being a starting QB here again has sailed. And its not all his fault, he had a bad offensive line and not the best scheme but thats how the NFL goes sometimes. I will say I think it is very odd that there are a lot of people who believe Sam can get significantly better but also who think not one other NFL organization will agree with that enough to trade even a late round pick for him Edited January 7 by ThatNFLChick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I also am of the opinion we should think long and hard about doubling down on the QB position this draft at some point if the value is there. Cam Ward's inclusion in the mix also makes this upcoming draft all the more exciting for me. I like all these guys. Schlee is the hardest to get a feel for, but I think this dude has the same wheels McCarthy-others have if not better. Pratt Jordan Travis Ewers Spencer Rattler Austin Reed Schlee Seth Hanigan Mordecai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 46 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Just to further my point, the Jets got Aaron Rodgers and will now be attempting to trade Zach Wilson rather then keep him around even though he's young because they know he is not their guy Zach Wilson Top 3 draft position bust is not making your case for drafting a top 3 QB. and neither is Rodgers considering it took 3 plays for his season to come to a end and 28mil later. Jets have a bad OL too but Howell did make it though not so much for his backup his backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seantaylor=god Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: I also don't think there is any point in devoting any actual resources to seeing if Sam can get better if we have committed to taking a QB with the #2 pick. All of the focus, attention, scheme, support, etc should be given to that rookie QB. If other QBs happen to learn along the way, cool, but any idea of him being a starting QB here again has sailed. And its not all his fault, he had a bad offensive line and not the best scheme but thats how the NFL goes sometimes. I think all resources should be focused on developing the player and designing and implementing an offense that allows our rookie QB (whoever it is) to be successful. The rest really doesn’t matter that much to me, whether a veteran QB, Howell, etc. is on the roster, so I agree. Edited January 7 by seantaylor=god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said: Do you guys really think Maye is that much better than Sam? Is there a way to get the kid from USC? Only prob I have with either of these guys is they don’t play against top college teams in the country. Yes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac8887 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 17 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Saying I don't think its necessary to keep him on the team and that a vet who has had success to mentor a rookie is a better idea than Sam as a backup doesn't mean I hate him. I just am not emotional about keeping him and am realistic about the fact that the most successful young QBs have a veteran as a backup and there's a very valid reason for that. I also don't think there is any point in devoting any actual resources to seeing if Sam can get better if we have committed to taking a QB with the #2 pick. All of the focus, attention, scheme, support, etc should be given to that rookie QB. If other QBs happen to learn along the way, cool, but any idea of him being a starting QB here again has sailed. And its not all his fault, he had a bad offensive line and not the best scheme but thats how the NFL goes sometimes. I will say I think it is very odd that there are a lot of people who believe Sam can get significantly better but also who think not one other NFL organization will agree with that enough to trade even a late round pick for him How dare you blaspheme our savior sam. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 49 minutes ago, bird_1972 said: You've been making some very good points here and to an extent, I agree with you. However, I think continuing to talk about Howell being benched 3 times doesn't acknowledge the horrible OL he was forced to deal with all season, the terrible head coaching, etc. At this point, I've moved on from thinking he's "our guy", but I still don't think we know what he's capable of since we really didn't put him in a position to succeed this year. Unfortunately, that will be another team's job to find out. And for the record, he is in no way close to being the bust that Wilson or Rosen is. Not by a country mile. Yep Howell has shown he can play in the league, his regression this year was kind of understandable given the circumstances. it's foolish to trade a guy who can play in the league who holds little value to turn around and spend the 6th rounder they get for him on another late round QB who most likely won't be as good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrustTheProcessHTTR Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Yep Howell has shown he can play in the league, his regression this year was kind of understandable given the circumstances. it's foolish to trade a guy who can play in the league who holds little value to turn around and spend the 6th rounder they get for him on another late round QB who most likely won't be as good. Why wouldn't another 5th or 6th rounder most likely not be as good. Was our scouting dept so much better than everyone else that passed on Howell lol. Did he convincingly show that he deserved to be picked higher when he was given 17 games but they are most likely going to move on. A first or 2nd rounder with Howells stats would get another look or two day 3 picks dont get that luxury. Every nfl team did not screw up and pass over Howell lol Futher more im fairly certain we can find another back up in the 5 th or 6th that provides Howells skills and traits and stats and W/L for that matter. Yes it's team game but QBs ultimately get judged on wins and losses. Hence why Alex Smith stayed around for a long time with underwhelming stats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac8887 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Yep Howell has shown he can play in the league, his regression this year was kind of understandable given the circumstances. it's foolish to trade a guy who can play in the league who holds little value to turn around and spend the 6th rounder they get for him on another late round QB who most likely won't be as good. I would literally take anything of value for sam. Even if it's sam+our 7th for a 6th or something like that. No coach IA going to want the headache of having sam here when as soon as the new rookie qb starts to struggle, all of the howlers will come out of the woodwork. The local and national media would jump on that and try to puff up the story because nothing is more juicy than a qb controversy. Draft your rookie first rounder, find your vet backup and trade sam for anything of value. If you can't find a trade partner, you bury sam down to qb3 on the depth chart or and announce there will be no qb battle at all, I imagine it's possible he even gets cut. There is no way a new coach is going to want to come here and deal with that headache. There are just way to many fans that are unwarrantedly way to emotionally invested in sam. And the new coach won't want to have to deal with the howlers It's almost like they are more worried about sam having a chance to succeed here as qb1, rather than the team being in the best position to succeed. Some seem more emotionally invested in sam than they are the team and I just can't for the life of me understand it. Edited January 7 by mac8887 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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