China Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Fergasun said: What is also bizarre is that for such an underwater approval rating, Biden is still competitive with Trump. What is bizarre is that so many people will still vote for Trump despite all his business and political failures, and despite all his criminal activity and indictments. A large segment of the population of this country are uneducated, misinformed, easily manipulated and would welcome a dictator. It's frightening. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 ... And what power do we feel if most middle of the road independent folks have been saying "We don't want to see Biden vs. Trump rematch" and the Democrats are like "Well the incumbent gets to decide." And the GOP is like "we are a cult now...". 4 minutes ago, China said: What is bizarre is that so many people will still vote for Trump despite all his business and political failures, and despite all his criminal activity and indictments. A large segment of the population of this country are uneducated, misinformed, easily manipulated and would welcome a dictator. It's frightening. The propoganda machine is strong. Just look at what happens to polls with a Trump conviction. Most people paying attention are pretty convinced he's guilty.. unless you are a propagsndist. For some reason half of the country would gladly say "OJ did it!" but Trump is unfairly being targetted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Biden is about as middle of the road Democrat that is left in the Party. Why wouldn't a middle of the road independent favor him over a more liberal Dem choice? 🤔 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Biden is about as middle of the road Democrat that is left in the Party. Why wouldn't a middle of the road independent favor him over a more liberal Dem choice? 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 The "independent" term is a problem, especially when it comes to strategizing for candidates hoping to gain their support without putting off factions of their own party's membership, obviously. Yet the narrative (and reality imo) on the "independent vote" is that it is often very important. It's not only a difficult line to walk for dem or gop candidates on the surface, but a deeper take exacerbates the challenge. First, some number of people who label themselves "independent" when asked will vary their answer depending on who's asking, i.e. if asked by political pollsters or canvassers vs close friends. "Independents" (I use that label, too) fall into two main groups. People who will vote much more often for gopers and voting for dems rarely, along with voting for some candidates who are running as independents at times. The other group of course will vote much more often for dems and rarely vote for gopers and occasional vote for independents. So when you try to gauge the group overall you're not really able to know if you're trying to persuade someone much more likely to vote against your party and for the opposition than actually being truly open minded about party affiliation. Best you can do is assume that the more towards the middle you go, the better your chance. But it's still a dart throw. And you inevitably take a risk with such messaging. The waters are really muddy. Especially in times of severe polarization (a factor also hard to calculate with social and other media activity these days, including increased manipulation by foreign interests). To return to an earlier comment, a lot of people who tell a particular questioner to they're "an independent" are really straining the term and in some cases just flat out misrepresenting themselves. Better for all strategists involved if such folks would say something like "I usually end up voting for party x but I'm not a dedicated partisan for them but I rarely vote for the candidates and policies of party y." Which isn't going to happen. 😛 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Trump Kept Hitler Speeches ‘In a Cabinet By His Bed,’ Said Ex-Wife Ivana Trump in Resurfaced Interview Former President Donald Trump reupped his hateful rhetoric about immigrants in two campaign stops over the weekend, twice saying that immigrants were “poisoning the blood of our country.” A similar version of the phrase appears in Adolf Hitler’s manifesto Mein Kampf, a book that some doubt Trump has read. However, in a 1990 interview with Vanity Fair, Trump’s first ex-wife Ivana Trump said the future president kept a collection of Hitler’s speeches in their bedroom. According to the post-divorce profile of the couple by Marie Brenner, Ivana — pictured above in 1988 with her then-husband after she was sworn in as a United States citizen — recounted an instance of a Trump Organization employee greeting his boss: “[W]hen he visits Donald in his office, Ivana told a friend, he clicks his heels and says, ‘Heil Hitler,’ possibly as a family joke.” Brenner continued with the passage that has come up a lot since Trump entered politics: Quote Former President Donald Trump reupped his hateful rhetoric about immigrants in two campaign stops over the weekend, twice saying that immigrants were “poisoning the blood of our country.” A similar version of the phrase appears in Adolf Hitler’s manifesto Mein Kampf, a book that some doubt Trump has read. However, in a 1990 interview with Vanity Fair, Trump’s first ex-wife Ivana Trump said the future president kept a collection of Hitler’s speeches in their bedroom. According to the post-divorce profile of the couple by Marie Brenner, Ivana — pictured above in 1988 with her then-husband after she was sworn in as a United States citizen — recounted an instance of a Trump Organization employee greeting his boss: “[W]hen he visits Donald in his office, Ivana told a friend, he clicks his heels and says, ‘Heil Hitler,’ possibly as a family joke.” Brenner continued with the passage that has come up a lot since Trump entered politics: It is not a secret that Donald Trump does not mind being compared to the Nazi dictator. He also might have thought that he did have a copy of Mein Kampf: Quote “Did your cousin John give you the Hitler speeches?” I asked Trump. Trump hesitated. “Who told you that?” “I don’t remember,” I said. “Actually, it was my friend Marty Davis from Paramount who gave me a copy of Mein Kampf, and he’s a Jew.” (“I did give him a book about Hitler,” Marty Davis said. “But it was My New Order, Hitler’s speeches, not Mein Kampf. I thought he would find it interesting. I am his friend, but I’m not Jewish.”) Click on the link for the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Jumbo said: So when you try to gauge the group overall you're not really able to know if you're trying to persuade someone much more likely to vote against your party and for the opposition than actually being truly open minded about party affiliation. To return to an earlier comment, a lot of people who tell a particular questioner to they're "an independent" are really straining the term and in some cases just flat out misrepresenting themselves. Agree with the entire post but especially those parts above. Quote Better for all strategists involved if such folks would say something like "I usually end up voting for party x but I'm not a dedicated partisan for them but I rarely vote for the candidates and policies of party y." Which isn't going to happen. 😛 Polling orgs may be thinking the same way...the two political polls I took part in would ask party affiliation, and then if you selected "Independent" would ask if you're more likely to vote Democrat or more likely to vote Republican (or neither). Then again, nobody was verbally asking me the questions which could be different. Edited December 19, 2023 by Califan007 The Constipated 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 "My New Order" is described as Hitler's sequel to "Mein Kampf"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Quote Philip: Trump was pretty clear. He was saying the immigrants that are coming are poisoning the blood of the nation Malliotakis: He never said immigrants He typed and posted it tho. 🤭 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 I hate that the punchline is worse: "I know that some are trying to make it seem like Donald Trump is anti-immigrant..." she the proceeds to point out that some of his closest friends and even his wife are immigrants!! And he has hired immigrants!! Everyone knows what he's doing. Let's get the far-far-far-Hitler-friendly part of the base energized! He himself is trying to come off as anti-immigrant. ... And darnnit if I didn't read some Amazon blurb on the Hitler book that pointed out Trump's rhetoric is exactly following what Hitler said. Long, easy vocab speeches that repeat the same things over and over again. But we weren't supposed to have a country after 2016 and 2020. Also, weren't you President? Shouldn't the President implemebt policies and pass legislation to prevent this? Like it's not like Biden dismantled a bunch of stuff you did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmsy Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 17 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: What I watch on MSNBC, and mostly for the continuing legal education: Deadline White House, Rachel, and Lawrence as long as the topics interest me. If not, I change the channel. I don't watch CNN, Faux, or any of the other MAGA channels. Used to watch CNN after high school, twenty years ago, CNN was on every TV on campus. There was never any fake news and no one complained because they were a legit news source. Oh have the might have fallen. 17 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said: The gop primaries start the middle of January. Biden needs to start campaigning and flood with ads. Even though there really isn’t a Dem race; Biden needs to counteract all the attention on the gop race for 2nd place and then take on Trump now. Election was today , Trump would win. Biden needs to change the narrative about him and talk about the stakes, if Trump gets in. If he waits anymore, the negative views about him will harden and he’ll lose. He’s got to counteract Trump and the gop and prevent Dem voters going 3rd party. This election will be close, electoral college wise. It won’t take that many votes going to third parties to tip key states to Donald. Joe has to go out there , while balancing his presidential duties. He can’t assume just because Trump is opponent, Trump going to prison, and abortion ; he will win. All Biden has to do is take all the news clips of Trump in court/making an ass out of himself and put it in a 30 second ad. Trump produces new material AT LEAST every few days, the process writes itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, ixcuincle said: As if I needed more proof that voting for Biden is the way to go lol... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 All caveats about the usefulness of polls right now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 20 hours ago, Jumbo said: I rarely clink on links in "political" posts that contain only the link. And I'm at the point where I don't take wsj or the hill as very solid sources, though I read them fairly often. I used to assign them more credibility and less partisanship though they've always been partisan. Much of media is slanted of course, just by their choice to chase a given audience cuz it's money that matters. Huffpo is a great example on the left. MSNBC the same with cable news. Doesn't mean all of these operations don't have some great reporters who sometimes do great reporting. It's all about separating the white noise from the accurate relevant substance. But managing my time is a factor too. I mostly prefer direct feeds from ap, Reuters, etc. or viewing basic nbc, cbs, abc, npr, CBC, bbc news and of course still applying critical thinking and cross checking. I also fell down yesterday.😁 To quote Kareem, recovering from his broken hip, age is the great equalizer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: As if I needed more proof that voting for Biden is the way to go lol... Like, cmon, he's a sports analyst and him trying to seem impartial is perfectly fine in sports...but someone who claims to call it how he sees it, "I'm not as down on some of Trumps policies as others" speaks to either not knowing what they are or his true character. This was like finding out Lil Wayne and Ice Cube were still dick ridin Trump as well are you really getting yours or you don't know what you saying yes to? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: "I'm not as down on some of Trumps policies as others" speaks to either not knowing what they are or his true character. Most people who claim to support Trump for his policies have one helluva hard time naming what those policies are when asked. "Border safety" or "Building the wall" is often as close as they come to naming actual policies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 45 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Most people who claim to support Trump for his policies have one helluva hard time naming what those policies are when asked. "Border safety" or "Building the wall" is often as close as they come to naming actual policies. I hear deregulation and lowering taxes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, The 12th Commandment said: To quote Kareem, recovering from his broken hip, age is the great equalizer. In my decrepit defense😁 , I was climbing a steep hillside with a forty pound backpack on a right leg with a fifteen year old total knee replacement that underwent a complete redo after shattering my femur from another questionable activity last year and a left leg awaiting it's first tkr that's two years overdue. "Never give up, never surrender" 😛 Main point is I'm obviously senile and mentally deficient. 🧐 Maybe I should run for POTUS.🇺🇸 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, The 12th Commandment said: I hear deregulation and lowering taxes as well. Well, lowering taxes for corporations and the wealthiest individuals. Dems very real and myriad flaws and all, voting GOP at this time is indicative of low, or terribly corrupted, intellect and character. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jumbo said: Maybe I should run for POTUS.🇺🇸 Walk. And might want to delete your posting history. Or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Most people who claim to support Trump for his policies have one helluva hard time naming what those policies are when asked. "Border safety" or "Building the wall" is often as close as they come to naming actual policies. Mass extrajudicial border shootings! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Larry said: Walk. And might want to delete your posting history. Or not. Say what? My posting history would be my platform. 👹🤡💩🤖👍👍👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Jumbo said: Say what? My posting history would be my platform. 👹🤡💩🤖👍👍👍 You're doomed. You've probably banned half the voters in the US. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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