Philosophical Stories (and Questions about them)

[Thinking Skins]

So this morning I was reading a story about anger, Here's how it goes: 

 

Quote

There once lived a boy who had a bad temper. He would get angry at every little thing. One day, his father gave him a bag of nails and told him, "Every time you get angry, hammer a nail into that front wall."

And so the activity started. On the first day, the boy hammered 50 nails. The next day, he hammered 40. Each time he used to go there, he repented being angry - it was quite a challenge to hammer a nail into that damn brick wall! Slowly, he discovered that controlling anger was easier than hammering, and the number of nails hammered started going down.

Eventually, a day came when he didn't get angry, and he felt the joy of it. Now his father gave him another task, "If you do not get angry the entire day, remove one nail from the wall." After several days, all the nails were removed.

Now his father took him near the wall and asked him what did he see. The boy replied that he can see holes in the wall. The father then explained to his son: "These holes are like the scars that you leave on people when you get angry. No matter how many times you say sorry, the scar does not go."

 

I love this story but  was just thinking about it and it doesn;t make sense to me. Well it does for the most part - in this instance. But what if the guy had never controlled his anger. What if putting nails in bricks was just what he did to "forgive" himself for getting mad/ Doesn't the story fall apart after that? He'd never learn to control his anger and never learn the moral of the story about the holes in the wall.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Getting angry by itself doesn’t leave scars on anyone. I’d say his father gave him bad advice by telling him to attack the wall to express his anger.
 

Should have told him to go jogging or read a book. Roll a joint. Something more constructive.

 

Some times getting angry is justified and necessary. What you do with the anger is what matters. Smashing a wall with nails because you are angry is not constructive.

[Jabbyrwock]

12 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Getting angry by itself doesn’t leave scars on anyone.

 

For whatever its worth, when I was told that story (long ago) the child put a nail in a fence when he lashed out at someone in anger, not just whenever he was angry.

[gbear]

If he never learned to control his anger, it would just be another thing his parents tried in an effort to get him to control his anger.  It wouldn't be the end of the story.  Either the boy would suffer for his loss of control in some way or another way of teaching him would get through.  Then the story would both be about learning to control anger and also the persistence parents need to have in coming up with different ways to impart life's lessons to our kids.

 

Sadly, I fee like I live this parable trying to teach my kids.  We are constantly left with the wreckage of failed teachings...and it becomes more a story of finding the ones that resonate with each of our four very different children.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Also, take if your child can’t control his anger take your kid to the psychologist instead of handing him a weapon and telling him to express his anger with it.

Edited August 23, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Ball Security]

34 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Getting angry by itself doesn’t leave scars on anyone. I’d say his father gave him bad advice by telling him to attack the wall to express his anger.
 

Should have told him to go jogging or read a book. Roll a joint. Something more constructive.

 

Some times getting angry is justified and necessary. What you do with the anger is what matters. Smashing a wall with nails because you are angry is not constructive.

What if that wall was what was separating you from fulfillment?

[balki1867]

I've been really getting into the philosophy of Stoicism in the past few months and one of the epiphanies I've had is that emotions are not things to be ignored. I grew up in a very unemotional household and for most of my life I saw emotions as negative things, but they're a key artifact of something greater and positive.

 

For instance, feeling sad sucks, but its also the complement to hope, expectation and love and if you're not prepared to feel sad at some point, you can't have any of those things either.

Likewise, anger is a natural reaction to a violation of our value systems.  For instance, if you're waiting in line somewhere and someone cuts in front of you, it's going to piss you off.  That's because you have a value system that encompasses people acting fairly toward one another and someone is trying to violate it.

 

Emotions are a critical signal to us that something is off in our world, but the key thing is for the rational mind to then take hold and act constructively (and sometimes that really does involve letting it go).

 

If I was the dad, I'd focus more on why the kid was pissed off all the time and helping him find tools to deal with it, rather than telling him its wrong to be angry.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

6 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

What if that wall was what was separating you from fulfillment?

Then you arent concerned about the holes.

[757SeanTaylor21]

Only thing I see is that didn't make much sense was he put in atleaat 90 nails. When the dad said take one nail out every day you do not get angry and anger a several days there were no nails....logically that's impossiblen🤣🤣 at minimum it would of taken 90 days+ for however many more nails. So the growth wasn't just a few days of controlling it it was 3+ months. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

That’s the problem with writing the script after you have the title…

[Die Hard]

1 hour ago, balki1867 said:

I've been really getting into the philosophy of Stoicism in the past few months and one of the epiphanies I've had is that emotions are not things to be ignored. I grew up in a very unemotional household and for most of my life I saw emotions as negative things, but they're a key artifact of something greater and positive.

 

For instance, feeling sad sucks, but its also the complement to hope, expectation and love and if you're not prepared to feel sad at some point, you can't have any of those things either.

Likewise, anger is a natural reaction to a violation of our value systems.  For instance, if you're waiting in line somewhere and someone cuts in front of you, it's going to piss you off.  That's because you have a value system that encompasses people acting fairly toward one another and someone is trying to violate it.

 

Emotions are a critical signal to us that something is off in our world, but the key thing is for the rational mind to then take hold and act constructively (and sometimes that really does involve letting it go).

 

If I was the dad, I'd focus more on why the kid was pissed off all the time and helping him find tools to deal with it, rather than telling him its wrong to be angry.

Good stuff! You and I are pretty much in alignment. 
 

Ive found that all stressful/distressing/uncomfortable/painful (unwanted) emotions/feelings can be associated within a spectrum of 3 fundamental ones:

1. Anger

2. Sadness

3. Fear

 

They are neither negative or harmful… if they are used constructively. They are signposts (energy)… to let us know when we’re triggered/attached to something (thoughts/circumstances).

 

Once we understand them and what they mean…. it’s so much easier to process them. Whereby we can respond (consciously) rather than react (subconsciously).

 

Here’s one of the better resources on emotions.

 

I may enjoy this thread. 😂

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Die Hard

[Die Hard]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

So this morning I was reading a story about anger, Here's how it goes: 

 

 

I love this story but  was just thinking about it and it doesn;t make sense to me. Well it does for the most part - in this instance. But what if the guy had never controlled his anger. What if putting nails in bricks was just what he did to "forgive" himself for getting mad/ Doesn't the story fall apart after that? He'd never learn to control his anger and never learn the moral of the story about the holes in the wall.

There’s a lot of BS in this parable.

 

We didn’t learn how he controlled his anger… other than he valued expending less energy. 
 

The hammering of the nail is a physical release (like say a primal scream, or a cry, etc). Now, that’s a healthy coping mechanism… there nothing inherently destructive about it. If it works, there’s no reason to believe there’s incentive to use it less…. or explain why his numbers went down.

 

And when it comes to emotions/anger…. the goal isn’t to deny/suppress the emotions so that it never again arises - we can’t anyways, we don’t control our subconscious minds - it’s about controlling how we want to respond to it.

 

This constant positivity is fake non-sense and toxic. To learn to suppress emotional responses… will have dire consequences to the emotions that we desires (numbing).

 

To be a healthy human is to learn to ride the waves of all emotion. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Die Hard

[The 12th Commandment]

When I did the Zen Buddhist thing, it stuck with me that anger is really focused on yourself by association with sadness, envy or a host of other negative emotions. Being mindful of what is causing you anger is useful for resolution.  Anger itself is not.

 

A parable I always try to remember is the story of the soldier who asked Buddha to define heaven and hell.  Buddha told him he was an idiot and wouldn't get it anyway.  When the soldier got mad Buddha explained that was hell.  He then asked the soldier how he felt about that and the soldier explained he felt gratitude for Buddha having placed himself as the target if that anger for the purpose of enlightenment.  Buddha then explained that feeling was heaven.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Since my accident, I deal with bouts of anger for completely illogical reasons.  I find smoking a bowl helps.

Edited August 23, 2022 by The Almighty Buzz

[Die Hard]

1 minute ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

Since my accident, I deal with bouts of anger for completely illogical reasons.  I find smoking a bowl helps.

 

Thats the thing about emotions… they don’t need to be logical (understandable) or even warranted. 
 

That’s why an option in how to respond is…. no response at all. We can just sit in the emotion… and just let it pass. Most of the time, it does.

[TheGreatBuzz]

52 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

 

Thats the thing about emotions… they don’t need to be logical (understandable) or even warranted. 
 

That’s why an option in how to respond is…. no response at all. We can just sit in the emotion… and just let it pass. Most of the time, it does.

 

I do a lot of that.  For example, a few days ago I was having a really bad pain day (we troubleshoot it down to we think I may have forgot my morning meds that day).  Anyways, we were driving home and Buzzette, in an effort to lighten the mood, said "whee" as we drove around a corner faster than I probably should.  Anyways, I wanted to just explode in anger on her.  But I've learned when I feel that to stop and evaluate if that is really a reasonable response to a given situation.  If not, then I just bury the feeling until it passes.

 

And/or go smoke a bowl.

Edited August 23, 2022 by The Almighty Buzz

[Dan T.]

I try to use the "life's too short" mantra to deal with anger. I used to let family arguments stew and bleed into the next day.  It made me feel crappy and injected corrosive tension into the household. And it was usually over non-important things in the big picture.  

 

And anger can be corrosive to the soul.  To quote John Prine, "a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter."

[Die Hard]

51 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

I try to use the "life's too short" mantra to deal with anger. I used to let family arguments stew and bleed into the next day.  It made me feel crappy and injected corrosive tension into the household. And it was usually over non-important things in the big picture.  

 

And anger can be corrosive to the soul.  To quote John Prine, "a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter."

Every emotion has the capability of becoming corrosive. In the same way that vegetables can be nutritious…. But too much of a good thing (eg. broccoli, bananas, water) can ultimately be harmful too.

 

Emotions are meant to be fleeting (temporary).

[NickyJ]

As others have said, learning how to use or deal with anger is more important than trying to avoid it. Anger can be a motivator to do better. It's also a vent for emotions that can get bottled up. In most other places than here, I am somewhat of a doormat. I usually accept it because it's easier to avoid confrontation than to constantly be tending to my boundaries. Every once in a while, I need that anger to stand up for myself when someone goes too far. As long as I don't use my anger to hurt others, I don't think it gets too far out of hand.

[Die Hard]

10 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

As others have said, learning how to use or deal with anger is more important than trying to avoid it. Anger can be a motivator to do better. It's also a vent for emotions that can get bottled up. In most other places than here, I am somewhat of a doormat. I usually accept it because it's easier to avoid confrontation than to constantly be tending to my boundaries. Every once in a while, I need that anger to stand up for myself when someone goes too far. As long as I don't use my anger to hurt others, I don't think it gets too far out of hand.

“Constantly tending to my boundaries.”

😂 Ain’t that the truth.

 

But that’s the nature of all our relationships (with life/universe, others, ourselves).

 

I would hope that it gets easier with practice. 🙂

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, The 12th Commandment said:

When I did the Zen Buddhist thing, it stuck with me that anger is really focused on yourself by association with sadness, envy or a host of other negative emotions. Being mindful of what is causing you anger is useful for resolution.  Anger itself is not.

 

A parable I always try to remember is the story of the soldier who asked Buddha to define heaven and hell.  Buddha told him he was an idiot and wouldn't get it anyway.  When the soldier got mad Buddha explained that was hell.  He then asked the soldier how he felt about that and the soldier explained he felt gratitude for Buddha having placed himself as the target if that anger for the purpose of enlightenment.  Buddha then explained that feeling was heaven.

Ok. I'm confused here as well. So we've got heaven and hell. I don't know what context I've would ask Buddha about it though. Is it a place or a state of mind or an afterlife? 

 

Ok so on with the parable. Is the feeling of anger hell, the feeling of helplessness because Buddha had the knowledge and wouldn't share and the soldier couldn't do anything about it, the mear lack of knowledge? And is heaven then the not being mad at Buddha? The not being helpless? Or having knowledge shared (knowing of hell)?

 

Wouldn't the soldier have been better off if he'd have just forgotten the question or distracted himself with say a run or banging nails in the wall 

[The 12th Commandment]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Ok. I'm confused here as well. So we've got heaven and hell. I don't know what context I've would ask Buddha about it though. Is it a place or a state of mind or an afterlife? 

 

Ok so on with the parable. Is the feeling of anger hell, the feeling of helplessness because Buddha had the knowledge and wouldn't share and the soldier couldn't do anything about it, the mear lack of knowledge? And is heaven then the not being mad at Buddha? The not being helpless? Or having knowledge shared (knowing of hell)?

 

Wouldn't the soldier have been better off if he'd have just forgotten the question or distracted himself with say a run or banging nails in the wall 

Buddhist versions of heaven and hell (the idea of them) are not tied to xtian teaching of course.  They're nirvana and peacefulness vs. unsettling or bad feelings and conflict.  

 

Buddha was showing the soldier that anger (hell) is rooted in conflict and uncertainty and that peacefulness (heaven) is rooted in understanding and being in tune with others.  Least that's how I processed it.

[Thinking Skins]

3 hours ago, Die Hard said:

There’s a lot of BS in this parable.

 

We didn’t learn how he controlled his anger… other than he valued expending less energy. 
 

The hammering of the nail is a physical release (like say a primal scream, or a cry, etc). Now, that’s a healthy coping mechanism… there nothing inherently destructive about it. If it works, there’s no reason to believe there’s incentive to use it less…. or explain why his numbers went down.

 

And when it comes to emotions/anger…. the goal isn’t to deny/suppress the emotions so that it never again arises - we can’t anyways, we don’t control our subconscious minds - it’s about controlling how we want to respond to it.

 

This constant positivity is fake non-sense and toxic. To learn to suppress emotional responses… will have dire consequences to the emotions that we desires (numbing).

 

To be a healthy human is to learn to ride the waves of all emotion. 

Yeah, I get the whole punching holes in a wall when you're angry. It reminds me of the story of a sheep who was angry but didn't know why. So a cow just told him to do some work to help him possibly forget about it. Then he's working all day and the cow comes back at the end of the day and the sheep is now tried and the cow asks him if he's still angry but before he can answer the sheep is asleep. 

 

In that same vein, I could see the on an angry day nail a hole in the wall or take one out. And remember the hole left behind is the destruction that this anger (could) cause to those around you. 

 

But the whole thing of acting like the goal of life is to avoid anger is I think the wrong moral. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

This isn't a story but a (sort of) philosophical question...

 

Would you rather experience an incredible, amazing, fulfilling year but at the end of that year retain absolutely no memory of it, or be implanted with the memory of having an incredible, amazing, fulfilling year that in reality you never had?

 

It basically asks which is more important: the experience or the memory of it?

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

This isn't a story but a (sort of) philosophical question...

 

Would you rather experience an incredible, amazing, fulfilling year but at the end of that year retain absolutely no memory of it, or be implanted with the memory of having an incredible, amazing, fulfilling year that in reality you never had?

 

It basically asks which is more important: the experience or the memory of it?

This is funny because I have a friend who doesn't like to travel but instead he says he lives vicariously through pictures, like other people's facebook stories and instagram and books and all that. 

 

I think I would probably go for this route too because it would be like reading a book and imagining living in Hogwarts and all that. Maybe I wouldn't know that I didn't actually go to Hogwarts and I'd actually think I Was Harry Potter or Ron or some side character. 

 

But in today's social media age I think think this is an important question because we have a lot of people who live through SM and don't go outside, and this is scary because they literally don't go outside and don't interact with others. So I guess upon reevaluation, its a question of how much would this be happening. Would I stop going to France and Hawaii and all these places and my trips are replaced forever or just a one time thing?