The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[Warhead36]

43 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think it's interesting (and maybe important?) that one of the 2 CBs they claimed off of waivers is a rookie.  

 

Ron is pounding the young guys.  I remember he said one thing he learned in Carolina was they were too reliant on veterans and hung onto them too long.  I wonder if he's just doing a 180 here.  

 

Somebody will come out with the average age for every team eventually.  We've got to be in the top-10 of youngest teams.  Maybe even top-5.  

Someone posted it on Reddit and I think we were 11th or 12th youngest.

[FLSkinz83]

7 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I mean, where have we upgraded? We were pretty bad last year with Chase and Collins. I don't feel like we made any upgrades at LB or secondary, so again, feels like this year will be more of the same.

 

Our offense should be noticeably more potent, but it won't matter if we're giving up 30 points a game.

 

I'm not disagreeing.  I'm very concerned.

 

If you look at our LB's and DB's....9 out of 14 are 1st or 2nd year players...with the exception of Jamin Davis and BSJ, they were all drafted on day 3 or not drafted at all.  

Edited August 31, 2022 by FLSkinz83

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, CommanderCarson said:

Why?? The defense was much better second half of the year last year before Covid derailed everything and we were playing guys off the street. 

This is what I’m hanging my hat on, and betting on.  Fully acknowledging I could be wrong while hopping I’m right:

 

The defense played somewhere between good and very good for the entirety of the 4 game win streak.  And then the whole thing fell apart with injury and COVID. 

 

I’ve said I just want them to play at that level. And during that period they played Brady, Carr and Wilson.  Though I give Wilson an * because he CLEARLY wasn’t healthy and he almost beat them anyway.  (Though the offense under TH went 3-out 4 times in a row.  But TH beat Wilson.) 

 

If they play to that level, which is all I’m asking from them, then the team wins 10-12 games if there aren’t ridiculous injuries, and if they get a break or two.

 

If they can’t reach that level, it will be very disappointing.

 

 

[Warhead36]

Yeah I think on D we're banking on young guys taking the next step up and improved communication. We certainly didn't infuse that side of the ball with more talent.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Someone posted it on Reddit and I think we were 11th or 12th youngest.

From this year?  I can’t imagine that number is out yet with all of the roster movement still happening….

[FLSkinz83]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I think on D we're banking on young guys taking the next step up and improved communication. We certainly didn't infuse that side of the ball with more talent.

 

When you have this many young guys, I can almost guarantee you "communication" or lack thereof will be said often.    It should become a drinking game every time Ron and/or JDR use that word.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I don't think we were that much better. First 8 games we gave up 28 PPG. Second 8 games (less the Giants game) we gave up 25 PPG.

 

They were better during the winning streak in the 2nd half -- then COVID-19 and injuries and the wheels fell off. 

 

4 game winning streak they gave up 17.5 points a game

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They were better during the winning streak in the 2nd half -- then COVID-19 and injuries and the wheels fell off. 

 

4 game winning streak they gave up 17.5 points a game

 

 

 

The notion the defense was better the 2nd half of the year is overplayed.    The biggest reason it seemed better was because the offense was on the field a lot longer.   

[Skinsinparadise]

I get the impression, especially listening to Keim that they don't think they are a few players away from being a serious contender.  they think they can pull off the playoffs but they don't think they are on the brink of big things, yet.  I get the vibe that the aggressive moves are coming next off season.

 

In other words, I get the vibe that they don't want to overdo it with the cap, the want to see what they got in house and make more aggressive moves next off season.  Granted I am extrapolating and reading between the lines but that's the impression I get.

 

Keim in the previous off season said they have interest in upgrading QB if the situation is right but it won't be code red until next off season.  He was right about that.  I forgot how I formed this impression this time but I recall a segment he did in the off season that left me with this impression and I did share the details on the board at the time but am forgetting what the specifics were. 

 

I've mentioned this before on a different thread.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

The notion the defense was better the 2nd half of the year is overplayed.    The biggest reason it seemed better was because the offense was on the field a lot longer.   

It’s a chicken or the egg thing.  The offense was on the field a bit longer, but that’s also because the defense was making stops and giving the ball back to the offense.  
 

If the defense wasn’t making stops, they would have given up more points and more TOP.

 

I’ll box anybody who wants to argue with me the 4 game winning streak wasn’t mostly due to better defensive play.  Sure, Gibson ran well and TH made a few plays.  But the big jump was the defense getting off the field.

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get the impression, especially listening to Keim that they don't think they are a few players away from being a serious contender.  they think they can pull off the playoffs but they don't think they are on the brink of big things, yet.  I get the vibe that the aggressive moves are coming next off season.

 

In other words, I get the vibe that they don't want to overdo it with the cap, the want to see what they got in house and make more aggressive moves next off season.  Granted I am extrapolating and reading between the lines but that's the impression I get.

 

Keim in the previous off season said they have interest in upgrading QB if the situation is right but it won't be code red until next off season.  He was right about that.  I forgot how I formed this impression this time but I recall a segment he did in the off season that left me with this impression and I did share the details on the board at the time but am forgetting what the specifics were. 

 

I've mentioned this before on a different thread.  

I think they are also hedging their bets.  If they went crazy aggressive now and Wentz floos, you are stuck in a bad situation with no cap room, players to re-sign and down a very slippery slope.  
 

I think they’ve erred too much on the side of caution.  But I get why they are being cautious.

[FLSkinz83]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It’s a chicken or the egg thing.  The offense was on the field a bit longer, but that’s also because the defense was making stops and giving the ball back to the offense.  
 

If the defense wasn’t making stops, they would have given up more points and more TOP.

 

I’ll box anybody who wants to argue with me the 4 game winning streak wasn’t mostly due to better defensive play.  Sure, Gibson ran well and TH made a few plays.  But the big jump was the defense getting off the field.

 

The defense was better.  Part of that was finally moving Collins to LB.   The offense was holding the ball for 35-40 minutes.  That was the biggest reason for the improved defensive stats, IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

The notion the defense was better the 2nd half of the year is overplayed.    The biggest reason it seemed better was because the offense was on the field a lot longer.   

 

It's a chicken and egg argument.

 

Plenty argue the best defenses as far as getting pressure especially are often those that play with offenses that can build leads so you can tee off when the other team has to pass the ball a lot where the opposing offense becomes one dimensional.   Anayltic guys like the Football Outsiders guys and Warren Sharp are obsessed with this metric.  Build that lead. And then have the defense tee off.  How often did that happen last season?  it was really rare. 

 

To make my point differently, I think this defense would be better playing last year with an offense who can put up points. The 6 losses at the beginning of the season -- the offense averaged 15 points.  That's pathetic.   

 

If this team had an offense that could put up 25 points on average and jump ahead with leads --  the sack totals for starters would be greater for this D line IMO.

 

Last year it seems like they discovered, that they can't major in being one of the better NFL offenses and discovered the poor man's version of having a functional offense by playing good ball control.  And to your point, the defense indeed did better when the offense resorted to ball control so at a minimum they weren't on the field a ton.  So the offense played a different card that worked better.    But I can't fault the defense for that while saying they likewise deserve to be judged earlier in the season by an offense that couldn't score.  

 

A good ball control offense helps a defense stay rested and off the field.   But that doesn't also discount that you still have to execute.   I don't think the wheels fell off last season because Ron lost track of what worked.  He didn't have the horses in the home stretch.  And they paid the price.

 

But overall, I am not giving props for the offense for helping the defense because on the aggregate this offense made life harder not easier for the defense. 

 

lol, I just saw @Voice_of_Reason used the same metaphor, what are the odds?    But we took that point in a different direction. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[NewCliche21]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It’s a chicken or the egg thing.  The offense was on the field a bit longer, but that’s also because the defense was making stops and giving the ball back to the offense.  
 

If the defense wasn’t making stops, they would have given up more points and more TOP.

 

I’ll box anybody who wants to argue with me the 4 game winning streak wasn’t mostly due to better defensive play.  Sure, Gibson ran well and TH made a few plays.  But the big jump was the defense getting off the field.

 

One thing is the 10-minute drive against Tampa. That, even if an outlier, was the offense just doing it right. Proof of concept, so to speak.

This, as you said, impacted the defense as it gave them more rest and then they went and stopped the other team also in part because the opponent had less time to score more points. When it clicked, man, it was awesome.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[NeverSurrender]

38 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is what I’m hanging my hat on, and betting on.  Fully acknowledging I could be wrong while hopping I’m right:

 

The defense played somewhere between good and very good for the entirety of the 4 game win streak.  And then the whole thing fell apart with injury and COVID. 

 

I’ve said I just want them to play at that level. And during that period they played Brady, Carr and Wilson.  Though I give Wilson an * because he CLEARLY wasn’t healthy and he almost beat them anyway.  (Though the offense under TH went 3-out 4 times in a row.  But TH beat Wilson.) 

 

If they play to that level, which is all I’m asking from them, then the team wins 10-12 games if there aren’t ridiculous injuries, and if they get a break or two.

 

If they can’t reach that level, it will be very disappointing.

 

 

Yeah but if we had a kicker in that game it was over way before Wilson even would have had a chance. 

[Conn]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I think they are also hedging their bets.  If they went crazy aggressive now and Wentz floos, you are stuck in a bad situation with no cap room, players to re-sign and down a very slippery slope.  
 

I think they’ve erred too much on the side of caution.  But I get why they are being cautious.

 

Keim every once in awhile will slip some sort of big picture gem as far as something he's heard from the FO.  And I tend to remember the impression I get but often forget the details.

 

But somewhere in the mix, I recall a segment that gave me the vibe that Rivera thinks this is a playoff team but not a serious deep into the playoff type team and that their hope is to make that big push next year for all the marbles. 

 

Keim can be cagy when he makes strong points where he's careful and rarely blunt so you have to be good at reading through Keim speak -- I am typically not bad though at doing that.  I did a zoom with Keim and some other fans a couple of years ago -- he did it for some of his podcast listeners -- and in that zoom session he explained how to read through his comments. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Cooleyfan1993]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Kam in a sling? Why? I don’t think I remember seeing anything about him being injured. 

 

[wit33]

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Last year, no team played four opponents off of mini-byes. This year, it’s happening to three teams: the Commanders, Jets and Jaguars.

The Commanders remarkably play four games with three-day rest disadvantages. 

In Week 10, the Commanders play the Eagles, who are off a mini-bye after playing Thursday of Week 9. The same happens when Washington plays the Giants in Week 13 (NYG plays on Thanksgiving the prior week), the 49ers in Week 16 (S.F. plays on Thursday of Week 15) and the Cowboys in Week 18 (Dallas plays on Thursday of Week 17).

So, not only is Washington playing four teams off mini-byes; they are playing all four very late in the season.

This season, the Cowboys play six games against opponents who have less than a week to prepare for them.

Only twice in the prior 30 seasons did a team play six games vs. opponents with less than a week to prepare. But now we have one this year.

No other team plays more than four games like that besides Dallas. Keep in mind, last season no other team played more than four games. 

The NFL average is 2.6 such games per season.  

 

 

 

Any data on win/loss records in these situations?

 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Nah, the 2016 offense was very, very good.  The defense (Joe Barry Special) was putrid.  And Hopkins was brutal with late game kicks that year as well.  

 

The other ones you mentioned would also qualify.  1991 being the best of all of the ones mentioned, and by a country mile.  

 

2016 offense couldnt score points at a very good level. Have to score in the red zone. 
 

49 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I mean, where have we upgraded? We were pretty bad last year with Chase and Collins. I don't feel like we made any upgrades at LB or secondary, so again, feels like this year will be more of the same.

 

Our offense should be noticeably more potent, but it won't matter if we're giving up 30 points a game.

 

Floor is a Washington defense ranked 6-22 (all these teams are pretty much the same on defense)

[clskinsfan]

Agree with most of the rest of you. CB and LB are a problem. And I will go ahead and say that our LB room may be one of the worst in this franchises history. Holcomb can play. But I dont know if he is a starter on any other defense in this league. Davis cannot read an offense. He just cant. He couldnt do it in College either. Middle of our defense is going to be a sieve.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Agree with most of the rest of you. CB and LB are a problem. And I will go ahead and say that our LB room may be one of the worst in this franchises history. Holcomb can play. But I dont know if he is a starter on any other defense in this league. Davis cannot read an offense. He just cant. He couldnt do it in College either. Middle of our defense is going to be a sieve.

Meanwhile, I’m worried about the hybrid defenders in our D. St Juste can be great but he hasn’t done it consistently yet and we lost our best player in that spot in Landon Collins. Curl can do it, thank God. But I’m worried about all of that.

 

Our DL terrifies me, too.

[Koolblue13]

 

16 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

 

[clskinsfan]

I actually think thats a good trade for Minny. Reagor is a first round talent. And they got him for peanuts. Its not like Hurst is some super talented passer and he still caught 64 balls there in two seasons.  Plus Reagor also can give you some use as a returner as well. 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve said I just want them to play at that level. And during that period they played Brady, Carr and Wilson.  Though I give Wilson an * because he CLEARLY wasn’t healthy and he almost beat them anyway.  (Though the offense under TH went 3-out 4 times in a row.  But TH beat Wilson.) 

 

TH was 27 for 35, 223 yards, 1 TD, 1 int vs Seattle on that Monday night game. Took just 1 sack....He was clearly a big part of why they won that game whether you give him any credit or not. Not bad numbers for a backup QB.

[NeverSurrender]

The Eagles suck feast continues, even though they have yet to win a game all season. They are the SB favorites.  Meanwhile; Holcomb and Davis are finishing up their first coloring books and are standing in line for recess.

 

Vikings will win the SB no doubt.