2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The way the NFL is approaching the scoring from that testing, they don't really care if you score high.  Levis's score doesn't seem to be helping him.  They only care if you score low, as they are viewing that as confirmation you are too dumb to play NFL QB.  That is the rule they are hewing too from the test results.  "Nobody has ever been good who scored low."

 

But I guarantee there are all kinds of flaws and unaccounted for variables in the way this test is being administered and interpreted.  Repeat test taking is one of them.  Realistically, there is no way that preparation and familiarity don't help improve your score.

I don’t know how you can make conclusive statements in either direction without ever having seen, taken or researched the various aspects of the test.

 

I can tell you that these tests absolutely lead to excellent “starts” when it comes to investigating. You fill in any blanks with conversations with the individual, their counterparts, their coaches and their family. 
 

It’s not about being dumb. It’s not just intelligence being weighed.

 

I don’t get why anyone would discount any piece of the puzzle when it comes to evaluating young folk.

 

Its kind of strange.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The way the NFL is approaching the scoring from that testing, they don't really care if you score high.  Levis's score doesn't seem to be helping him.  They only care if you score low, as they are viewing that as confirmation you are too dumb to play NFL QB.  That is the rule they are hewing too from the test results.  "Nobody has ever been good who scored low."

 

But I guarantee there are all kinds of flaws and unaccounted for variables in the way this test is being administered and interpreted.  Repeat test taking is one of them.  Realistically, there is no way that preparation and familiarity don't help improve your score.

 

I don't know if I'd go that far, that they don't care if you get a high score.  They seemed to think highly of the fact that Brock Purdy had a killer score last year. 

 

I gather it's like any other variable where it could be the kicker one way or another.  For example Purdy was thought higher by PFF than most -- based on their metrics, they rated him a 5th rounder.  Let's say some other team thought more highly of Purdy then most AND he killed it on that exam -- that's like a nice bonus, factor

 

Heck even as an amateur doing my own fun ratings, when I am rating different players and they are close in my mind -- reading-negative or positive things about their personality-intelligence helps me do tie breakers and I have plenty of players that are bunched up close where those tie breakers help.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I know they met with Ronnie Brown. RB, 5 '10, 192, Shepard.   From Maryland.  

 

Could only find highlights.  So superificial take.  4.44 speed.  Some wicked stop and go and qiuick cutting ability, contact balance.

 

Over 400 receiving yards, 8 plus YPA, good returner. 

 

Ravens poking around on him, too and he's a Ravens fan so he might favor them as a UDFa which I gather he will be.

 

 

https://pressboxonline.com/2023/04/12/ronnie-brown-on-journey-from-baltimore-to-division-ii-shepherd-to-nfl-draft/

The 6-foot, 190-pound back started all 15 games for the Rams in 2022. He had 219 carries for 1,863 yards, caught 56 passes for 589 yards and combined for 24 touchdowns as a first-team Division II All-American. He took part in the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl following Shepherd’s 13-2 season.

The journey from playing locally to Division II football has been hard work for Brown, especially with a 4-year-old son, Wolfe. Brown says his son makes him even hungrier for success.

“I think the grind is what makes people more happy with life because you grind, and you keep working for something great. It’s not handed to you,” Brown said on Glenn Clark Radio April 6. “The stuff that’s handed to you, people start losing their focus.”

Brown was a three-sport athlete at Sparrows Point High School (football, lacrosse and wrestling). He realized his primary focus and skills were in football, and he transferred to Dundalk High School ahead of his senior year to play for the Owls under Matt Banta.

Brown did have a few offers coming out of high school and visited schools like Bowie State and Morgan State. However, the only school that offered him a full scholarship was Shepherd.

Shepherd has amazing fans and a great community, according to Brown. He preferred to stay loyal to his school instead of transferring to a bigger program at some point during his college career.

“I felt like Shepherd was the greatest opportunity, the best opportunity for me to showcase my ability at a high [Division II school] and to be able to perform at a high level,” Brown said.

 

Brown is not the only player from the Rams going through the NFL draft process. Offensive lineman Joey Fisher is also going through it. Fisher, a 6-foot-5, 322-pound senior, started in all 15 games last season and earned a Senior Bowl invite for his crucial role on Shepherd’s offensive line.

Having a teammate go through the process has been beneficial for Brown. He mentioned that although they are taking slightly different paths, they motivate each other to keep pushing and make it to the NFL.

“[Fisher] takes everything that he does and does it 10,000 percent, and I love that because I love people that grind. I like people around me that have the same goals and the same aspirations as me because it just fuels each other. He’s a great teammate. He’s a really wonderful dude,” Brown said.

Brown has the same name as another running back who played in the NFL for 10 years, mostly with the Miami Dolphins. However, Brown mentioned that this is not really been a problem during his football career.

Brown is a Ravens fan and would love to play for them. However, he wants a chance to prove his talent with any team.

“It would be amazing to be able to put on for the city and be able to stand where I was born and raised from and be able to put on a show for everybody around here to show kids, even people [from] around here … you can still strive for something great,” Brown said. “Everybody has bad narratives of Baltimore. It’s just how it is. But I feel like me being there and being on a team or getting that shot at least will give a lot of kids hope.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jumbo]

@Going Commando

 

Even if it was tangentially on topic for a brief comment or two, I  posted about not wanting an extended off topic tangent to continue on this s2 stuff and you even quoted me and yet still made multiple new posts on it that initiated even more posts replying to your issues with it. 

 

I almost banned you for a week last night for a rule 18 violation and gave you my personal cognitive behavioral assessment regarding your posting style. But I didn't.

 

And here you're still going on the next day. You can continue to go on all you want, just not here for awhile.

 

There's zero blame on the guys responding to you on it. But let's move on.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I took off work next Friday.

[FrFan]

In 2022, Washington drafted heavily from the Senior Bowl. Will they do it again?

[Jumbo]

Just a tidbit on the old "size arguments"  re: Bryce young at #1.

 

Kyle Brandt did an interesting piece on this which included the factoid I'm sure we've all heard about how "Russel Wilson had a total of three balls batted down his senior year and Bryce had two" but also made some more salient points.

 

For instance, per the "will he be able to see over the linemen" bromide,  Bryce thew for over 450 yds (even though in a loss) against Tennessee. Alabama's offensive line was taller than the current Panthers offensive line and of a number of other NFL teams, and the Vols defensive line was taller than a handful of NFL teams. Bryce had no issues with vision or batted ball.

 

But what about the transition for such a short guy to the NFL? As the most recent example, Murray threw for over 300 yds in his first two games with the Cards. There was no drop off transitioning to NFL caliber defenses. What struggles he's had certainly haven't seemed linked to his height.

 

If someone's worried about his stature in terms of durability, I get that, but his high school and college competition often featured big boys at appropriately competitive levels and he still evolved his game to be dominant at the position.   

 

Therefore, with all respect and hope for Sam, should Bryce fall to us I think we should take him. 😛😁

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I touted Evan Hull as a late round RB possibility -- I think I might like Travis Dye even more if he's healthy.

 

Travis Dye, 5 '10, 214.   He get just about zero hype.  Over 1000 yards of receiving in his career -- hands catcher and catches the ball in stride. 

 

As a runner, averaged 6 YPA in his career.  30 TDs.   Missed a chunk of last season from a bad fracture.  Still ran for almost 900 years.

 

I watched 2 games.  He's a fun watch.  He hits the hole fast and get skinny.  He's not a straight line runner like lets say Chase Brown.  He's more in that Bigsby-Spears variety, zigs and zags with some stop-go, quick cuts, change of direction.   He doesn't have breakaway speed or look especially powerful -- his superpowers are IMO -- vision, elusivenss, patience, contact balance.

 

In general, I like the lower center gravity RBs everything being equal -- like him. They seem to have good contact balance. 

 

Modern day RB in that he has really good hands.   They lined him up as a receiver on a play in one of the games I watched.  Comes off very natural in the passing game. 

 

I think his age, 24, and coming off that injury (he's supposedly fine now) drops him to the 7th or he's a UDFA.  He'd be a good get.  i mentioned liking Jarrett Patterson before that draft as a late draft type -- UDFA.  And was happy with that signing.  Dye IMO is a better player than Patterson -- would be the type of 7th round pick or more likely UDFA signing that would get me jazzed.   If you watch without factoring the externals -- he comes off as a high floor RB IMO.

 

Supposedly a really good dude, too. 

 

 

 

https://247sports.com/college/usc/Article/USC-football-Trojans-Travis-Dye-Injury-running-back-Caleb-Williams-Lincoln-Riley-Austin-Jones-197372373/

Dye made it clear from his first public comments as a Trojan he had come to help change the culture of the program. Coaches and teammates often spoke in the months since about how he has done just that, becoming a vocal leader and example for a team that is ranked No. 8 in the College Football Playoff and Associated Press top 25 rankings and just improved to 9-1 after going 4-8 last season.

 

"Important for the culture, but really important to the competitive nature, the way we practice, the energy, the competitiveness, the physicality and the toughness," Riley said. "I think we all know that was something that had to happen here, and he was a central figure in that. His presence on the practice field, it got everybody going. He is an infectious leader and an infectious personality.”

 

https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/story/2022-10-12/usc-running-back-travis-dye-oregon

 

“I love what he stands for. He’s a competitive guy,” USC coach Lincoln Riley said. “And I appreciate that he’s made it a point to not just come in here and be a good running back and get better as a running back. He’s come in here because he wanted to make this place better.”

 

 

The decision to leave Oregon to be closer to home at USC, his family contends, was one of the toughest of Dye’s life. But ever since, they say they’ve seen a new spark in him, one that’s only grown brighter as USC has won six consecutive games to open the season, its best start since 2006.

Along the way, Riley has trusted Dye to be the Trojans’ workhorse, the first time he’s been handed such a major role outside of injury. His 571 yards rank second among running backs in the conference through six weeks of the season, but with the toughest test of the Trojans’ season looming Saturday in Utah, the eternal chip on his shoulder may be his most important contribution to USC’s push for a College Football Playoff semifinal bid.

He has his brothers to thank for that, Dye says.

“My older brothers gave me a hard time, every single day of my life,” he said. “Now looking back at it, they were just trying to teach me, to get me ready for this.”

Of course, it didn’t always feel that way. Like when Tony got a spitball stuck under young Travis’ eyelid. Or when his brothers squirted mustard in his mouth while he slept, a prank that left Travis forever disgusted by the condiment.

The constant competition between them only ratcheted up the stakes. The boys competed in whatever they could — foosball, air hockey, cornhole, dominoes, chess, you name it. They raced bikes. They raced on foot. Every Thanksgiving, along with playing the annual family Turkey Bowl, they’d race to officially determine which family member was fastest — a race that, until not long ago, had also been dominated by their dad.

At every step, Travis was naturally measured against what his brothers did before him. And by the time he made it to Norco High, his brothers had already left impressive legacies in their wake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

I like Kenny McIntosh's game a lot. He would be a good addition to this offense, IMO. I also like Fresno State's Jordan Mims who will likely go the UDFA route.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, FrFan said:

In 2022, Washington drafted heavily from the Senior Bowl. Will they do it again?

This is a great article and I fully expect numerous picks to come from the Senior Bowl again this year.

 

One of the big reasons this game has been so big the past couple years was COVID. There was little platform for the prospects to get exposure. I hope the game continues to be big for evaluators but there was a drop off in some of the talent this season. Not however at OL where there was a lot of top notch OL involved

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think there has been a strong correlation between NFL success and a being a standout at The Senior Bowl. 
 

I am all for continuing to draft those prospects. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

I like Kenny McIntosh's game a lot. He would be a good addition to this offense, IMO. I also like Fresno State's Jordan Mims who will likely go the UDFA route.

 

Assume that point is about running backs in general -- because Mcintosh isn't typically billed as a late rounder.  Seems like 4th-5th.  I like him better than I did Rachaad White last year who is similar stylistically.

 

Taking J. Gibbs out of the conversation. McIntosh and Hull IMO are the best pass catching backs in the draft.  Both have great hands and catch the ball in stride and get up the field fast.

 

Both IMO are more straight line runners as RBs, and not home run hitters.  They IMO are more of a threat as pass catchers than RBs as far as explosive plays.   I like McIntosh slightly more.  But both would fill that McKissic role well.

 

I watched Mims, too.  I don't like him as much as Dye.  But OK IMO to throw the dice on him as a UDFA.   He runs a bit IMO too upright and is so lanky -- am surprised with those long thin legs, he ran so poorly. 4.65 and his 1.65 10 was one of the worst times in this RB group.   But he has good vision and had his share of explosive runs.

 

For those curious here are some updated stats.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[actorguy1]

It really feels like a QB hungry team in the single digits is trying to get CJ Stroud to fall to them. He's gone from most likely number 1 pick to being "questionable" on everything not having to do with his game tape. Yes, this could be the press catching up with scouts but I feel I've seen this before. 

[Jumbo]

12 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

It really feels like a QB hungry team in the single digits is trying to get CJ Stroud to fall to them. He's gone from most likely number 1 pick to being "questionable" on everything not having to do with his game tape. Yes, this could be the press catching up with scouts but I feel I've seen this before. 

 

That's an interesting speculation. As sophisticated as some organizations are these days in media manipulation used to enhance their marketing/branding strategies and potential competitive or financial benefits, I could see some NFL FO doing such things though I can't quickly envision the specific techniques they would use. Intriguing to think about, though.

[Koolblue13]

Eagles, unsurprisingly won't be drafting a RB in the first I guess, now that they're trading for Henry. I doubt it's for one of their firsts. 

 

I'd love to see them draft Nolan Smith to pair with Riddick at 10 and then grab Klancey in the back of the first.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Eagles, unsurprisingly won't be drafting a RB in the first I guess, now that they're trading for Henry. I doubt it's for one of their firsts. 

 

I'd love to see them draft Nolan Smith to pair with Riddick at 10 and then grab Klancey in the back of the first.

 

Wow, just caught up with that.  Eagles are the definition of carpe diem.

 

Be interesting to see what Josh Harris does (assuming he gets the team) some who cover him and also cover the Eagles have expressed that he would likely run a FO that's on par with the Eagles.  Joe Banner who was once the GM with the Eagles also knows Harris and is very impressed with him.  I took arrows for it on the old FO thread (as crazy as it sounds now) that Roseman plays chess while Bruce plays candy land.

 

I like Rivera and for the most part thought he drafted well.  But there is a conservative-lack of aggressiveness-lack of imagination about this FO as there was with all of the FOs under Dan.  i am looking forward to that changing.  I don't mind it if Rivera sticks around as a coach.  And while I actually think his personnel moves have been mostly good.  I don't think they are great either.  I think zero chance it retains personne control if its Harris.

 

Among other things the Eagles are almost always a step ahead on cotracts and building future draft capital.  This team not so much. I do put a lot of that on Dan so good riddance.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Assume that point is about running backs in general -- because Mcintosh isn't typically billed as a late rounder.  Seems like 4th-5th.  I like him better than I did Rachaad White last year who is similar stylistically.

 

4th or 5th I concur. I think there are quite a few capable pass catchers this class but agree Kenny and Hull are at the top of the heap in that regard. Chris Rodriguez being one and IMO, is being slept on a bit. I was surprised at Mims's 40 time. He seemed to play a lot faster on film to me.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Jumbo]

35 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Eagles, unsurprisingly won't be drafting a RB in the first I guess, now that they're trading for Henry. I doubt it's for one of their firsts. 

 

I'd love to see them draft Nolan Smith to pair with Riddick at 10 and then grab Klancey in the back of the first.

 

Wow, been on the road (still in Montana) and hadn't heard about that trade. That's a big deal even with wear on those tires.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Jumbo said:

 

Wow, been on the road (still in Montana) and hadn't heard about that trade. That's a big deal even with wear on those tires.

Just starting to hear about it now. Henrys salary will cost about $8 mil spread out over three years. 

[Jumbo]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Just starting to hear about it now. Henrys salary will cost about $8 mil spread out over three years. 

 

I prefer that over them drafting bijan at 10.

 

Course I may be silly for thinking that but bijan is all fresh and new and should major help to someone for years.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

I prefer that over them drafting bijan at 10.

 

Course I may be silly for thinking that but bijan is all fresh and new and should major help to someone for years.

Something tells me that Howie is still not spending a 1rst on a RB this year. Maybe swap the 11 for 10, so the Eagles don't let anyone jump them for a QB.

 

Kind of forced hand.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

I prefer that over them drafting bijan at 10.

 

Course I may be silly for thinking that but bijan is all fresh and new and should major help to someone for years.

 

Me, too -- ditto J Gibbs. 

 

But knowing them they will trade down -- pick up another 2024 first round pick, and end up in the draft with players that fortfy both lines -- and add some player that's perfect for springing Derrick Henry for big runs, like Darnell Washington. 

[actorguy1]

I still have not seen any reliable sources post this Henry trade as real.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, actorguy1 said:

I still have not seen any reliable sources post this Henry trade as real.

I haven't either, but AJ Brown tweeted that it was legit. All three have the same agent and are friends, so it seems pretty legit.

[Skinsinparadise]