2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Zim489]

Id be staying as far away from Hooker as possible. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I actually agree. I think Young could be special. Needs to add a few pounds. But I think Henson Hooker is going to wind up being the guy in this class. I’d have to deep dive him for me to hunker down on that opinion but I’m close.

 

Hooker actually as I mentioned reminds me some ironically of Hurts.

 

But yeah for me I got to spend some time in this off season to study these guys deeper.  Right now most intrigued by Young, followed by Hooker, not sure about Levis, struggiling with falling for Stroud.

 

In Indy today for the game tomorrow but look forward to watching tonights game at the hotel

 

 

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

So I’m noticing that 90% of Hooker’s passes are WR screen type throws. At least in this game, he also hasn’t been super accurate. His one deep bomb was not really on target, he didn’t miss the guy but it didn’t quite hit him in stride. I dunno, kinda ho hum so far. And this is my first time getting a chance to see him play. Reminds me a little bit of Haskins in terms of throws he’s comfortable with. 

[skinsfan93]

6 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Young is a phenomenal player

Sorry there is no way in hell I want Bryce Young. Who wants a 5’11” qb who weighs 195lbs?  He would never finish a 17 game season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I know some say Will Levis is the top QB because of his traits but from what I've seen I am far from sold

2 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

So I’m noticing that 90% of Hooker’s passes are WR screen type throws. At least in this game, he also hasn’t been super accurate. His one deep bomb was not really on target, he didn’t miss the guy but it didn’t quite hit him in stride. I dunno, kinda ho hum so far. And this is my first time getting a chance to see him play. Reminds me a little bit of Haskins in terms of throws he’s comfortable with. 

 

Haskins IMO wasn't hot with screens.  He majored in shallow crossers-mesh routes.

 

As far as Hooker, I am still digesting.  I admit I am a sucker for mobile QBs who also have size and that fits Hooker.  His accuracy seems a bit hot and cold.  

 

What does remind me of Haskins and for that matter Stroud too is his WRs are often wide open, so you don't see him tested much with NFL style tight throws.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

I think more and more I am less impressed with this QB draft class. I’d have Howell fairly high in this class so it may be worth rolling with him. I still have Young first talent wise, but you need to be sure you want to get into that situation when he’s drafted.

 

Something still doesn’t click with me with Stroud, either.

Edited October 30, 2022 by KDawg

[Going Commando]

Hooker is going to win the Heisman and be the #1 pick IMO.  He's got a mix of Burrow and Mariota in him and is having a magical season like they did.  Josh Heupel is also having one of those next level seasons where they have everyone figured out, have a great plan and identity, and are just a step ahead of everyone else.  He thoroughly out coached a strong staff in Kentucky.  I think he might have an NFL future, but I also think the postseason format will  hurt his formula a bit since his first opponent will have desperately needed time to prepare, similar to how Chip Kelly's system didn't work as well in bowl season.  You see how even a really well coached D like Kentucky can't even consistently get lined up against them.  You play a D like Georgia or Clemson with enough time to prepare and that ain't gonna be how it is.

 

Hooker is impressive.  This is one of those years where the top QB emerges over the course of the season like Burrow and Murray did.  But I could still see Levis being QB2 and a top five pick.  Feels like this will be a four QB first round and they should all be picked by 16 or so.  But I do not want this regime to be one of the ones picking them.  You can't let a lame duck staff pick another first round QB prospect.  It never works out and this time will be no exception.

[IrepDC]

After watching Hooker vs. Levis, here are my takeaways. I got a better understanding of why Hooker could shoot up draft boards. I also saw why Levis is getting his talk despite it being a bad game for him.

 

Personally, I wouldn't take a chance on Levis after what I saw, but he does play in the most pro-like system. He plays more under center than any of the other top QBs so they're probably giving him credit for that. 

 

Levis seems like a good leader from what I could tell. He was still rallying his guys when they were down big. I give him some credit for that.

 

The things that didn't impress me were his footwork and decision making. His OL was getting dominated, but before I could cut him some slack, I remembered that our OL gets dominated too so I considered this a look into how he would look here.

 

The pressure caused him to get sloppy with his feet even when he had time. Sloppy footwork led to irratic throws. Irratic throws led to the worst game of his career. Levis had a better back pedal than any of the DBs on Kentucky's team tonight. 

 

Hendon on the other hand continues to build his Heisman bid. Tennessee may have something with this team. Hendon has really live feet; in a good way. He has the best footwork of any of the top QBs- quickly resetting his feet as he goes through reads. He is mobile, but he isn't a running QB. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up the first QB taken; if he continues at his current trend. He's bigger and presumably more durable than Young, and his mechanics and awareness are better than Stroud. He will need a strong finish to be #1 in April.

 

Hooker doesn't seem to play much from under center, though, and he benefits from the fastest tempo offense I've seen in years. I actually think the tempo of Tennessee's offense would give a lot of pro defenses trouble. I also wonder if Hooker's footwork and mechanics are tied to his experience in this offense; and whether he would be as consistent in an NFL scheme. 

 

This draft class has a lot of NFL QB prospects, but not as many sure things as I expected to see from all the hype. The season isnt over though so things can change.

[KDawg]

I agree with both above points. Hooker is going to be a player in this draft class.

 

I think he and Young are the top two QBs as of right now.

[philibusters]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Hooker is going to win the Heisman and be the #1 pick IMO.  He's got a mix of Burrow and Mariota in him and is having a magical season like they did.  Josh Heupel is also having one of those next level seasons where they have everyone figured out, have a great plan and identity, and are just a step ahead of everyone else.  He thoroughly out coached a strong staff in Kentucky.  I think he might have an NFL future, but I also think the postseason format will  hurt his formula a bit since his first opponent will have desperately needed time to prepare, similar to how Chip Kelly's system didn't work as well in bowl season.  You see how even a really well coached D like Kentucky can't even consistently get lined up against them.  You play a D like Georgia or Clemson with enough time to prepare and that ain't gonna be how it is.

 

Hooker is impressive.  This is one of those years where the top QB emerges over the course of the season like Burrow and Murray did.  But I could still see Levis being QB2 and a top five pick.  Feels like this will be a four QB first round and they should all be picked by 16 or so.  But I do not want this regime to be one of the ones picking them.  You can't let a lame duck staff pick another first round QB prospect.  It never works out and this time will be no exception.

 

Hooker is good, but he is old.  I remember we made a big deal out of Kenny Pickett's age last year.   Hooker is actually six months older than Pickett (meaning he'll be a 1.5 years older his rookie year than Pickett is during his rookie year).  This is Hooker's sixth year.  I am a huge Maryland fan so I peruse UVA and Virginia Tech message boards.  I remember the Virginia Tech mods raving about how good the true freshman was and how he was going to be a multiple year starter for them back in..... 2017.

 

We talk about how QBs are not getting developed in the NFL but lately we have seen a lot of older QB's get drafted.  But maybe this whole covid year is good for QB development as these guys are getting another year of development as the guy in college.   That said its a bit difficult to compare hook to say Byrce Young who he is three years and five month younger and CJ Stroud who is three years and 9 months younger than him.

Edited October 30, 2022 by philibusters

[philibusters]

For what its worth while Levis is about a year and a half young than Hooker, he will still be a 24 year old rookie and is very close to the age Kenny Pickett was at this time last year.  I remember him coming in after Penn St. briefly benched Sean Clifford in 2020.   Franklin probably should have stayed with Levis.

 

The thing about Levis is he is not a great college QB, just a good one.  13 TD's and 8 interceptions.  He has got the traits but he is 23 years old and still hasn't developed into a stud college player.   Don't get me wrong, he is a NFL QB, but top 10 pick?   Levis for example is 1 year and 3 months older than Sam Howell, which means he was 2 years and 3 months older than Sam Howell was at this time last year.  He should be really good by this point.  Sometimes guys with traits who haven't put it all together, do put it all together in the NFL--Josh Allen.   But more times than not, they don't put it all together and they are just meh in the NFL.

[philibusters]

J.T. Tuimoloau for Ohio St had probably the best defensive game I have seen for a while.  He had a couple sacks, force fumble, fumble recovery, and a pick six.  He is a true sophomore so not eligible for the 2023 draft, but wow, he was amazing yesterday.  He is 6'4 270 pound.   He is the tier of Joey Bosa, Nick Bosa, and Chase Young as a prospect.   

[Going Commando]

QB age isn't an issue at all to me.  Burrow and Cousins and Wilson were all old prospects too and they benefited from coming into the league later.  What mattered with them is that the lightbulb had already turned on for them, and I think Hooker is proving that's the case with him too.  It's a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

These are QB prospects, not DBs or recievers, and this is the NFL, not the NBA.  Prospect age is not important for them.  They can play at a peak level forever and get four or five contracts even if they come in 24+.  And high level QB prospects play early in their rookie deals, guaranteed to start somewhere in their second season at the latest.  You won't see many more situations where they sit like Rivers or Rodgers did unless it's like a situation that Jordan Love is in.  Hooker will play in his first or second year, and the extra time he took in college probably just saved his NFL team a lot of the work of developing him.

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

QB age isn't an issue at all to me.  Burrow and Cousins and Wilson were all old prospects too and they benefited from coming into the league later.  What mattered with them is that the lightbulb had already turned on for them, and I think Hooker is proving that's the case with him too.  It's a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

These are QB prospects, not DBs or recievers, and this is the NFL, not the NBA.  Prospect age is not important for them.  They can play at a peak level forever and get four or five contracts even if they come in 24+.  And high level QB prospects play early in their rookie deals, guaranteed to start somewhere in their second season at the latest.  You won't see many more situations where they sit like Rivers or Rodgers did unless it's like a situation that Jordan Love is in.  Hooker will play in his first or second year, and the extra time he took in college probably just saved his NFL team a lot of the work of developing him.

Agreed. With all of this. Young is highly talented. Yes, 5-11 >200. But the guy just finds ways to make play after play. He’s incredible to watch. I think people are sleeping on that (not really posting that to you, Steve, just a general thought).

 

On topic: Hooker, who I think is the next best prospect as of right now, is having a light bulb season. It’s not like he’s been awful before, either. But he interviews with charisma, seems to understand the game and the assignments and can buy time with his legs. He really does remind me of Alabama/OU Hurts in a lot of ways (who for what it’s worth I was higher on than most here were…).

 

He’s intriguing for sure.

[Going Commando]

I think Young is a special prospect too.  I think he sees the field better than any prospect that's come out in years.  Really reminds me of Mahomes in a lot of the types of plays he makes.  But I do get the concerns about his size, it makes me nervous about him too.  He also has a penchant for taking big hits that reminds me of RGIII and Tua, and that has me spooked a bit.  On the one hand, the toughness and balls he plays the game with is admirable and unrivaled.  On the other, it's going to get him taking a lot of damage.  Guys like Lamar and Kyler Murray play with a lot of balls too, but they are better at avoiding hard contact and I think it's a key for them maintaining their health and availability despite either being small or running a lot/holding the ball forever and taking a lot of extra contact.

 

If Young had a body like Will Levis, he would be the #1 pick no question for me.  But as is, I think he'll be QB 3 or QB 4.  Still a very worthwhile prospect to draft early in the first round and commit to developing into a franchise QB.  And I do believe he has a great chance to be the best Pro from the group.  I'd love for us to draft him if a new regime comes in this off-season, but I do not want us to draft him into a lame duck situation in the midst of an ownership change.  It will guarantee his failure.

[philibusters]

45 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

QB age isn't an issue at all to me.  Burrow and Cousins and Wilson were all old prospects too and they benefited from coming into the league later.  What mattered with them is that the lightbulb had already turned on for them, and I think Hooker is proving that's the case with him too.  It's a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

These are QB prospects, not DBs or recievers, and this is the NFL, not the NBA.  Prospect age is not important for them.  They can play at a peak level forever and get four or five contracts even if they come in 24+.  And high level QB prospects play early in their rookie deals, guaranteed to start somewhere in their second season at the latest.  You won't see many more situations where they sit like Rivers or Rodgers did unless it's like a situation that Jordan Love is in.  Hooker will play in his first or second year, and the extra time he took in college probably just saved his NFL team a lot of the work of developing him.

 

Its not that I disagree, but I just thought that there was a good chatter about it concerning Pickett, and not very much concern Levis and Hooker.  Maybe that means people are thinking about differently this year.

[Warhead36]

Hooker is too old. Its not the same situation as Burrow. Hooker will be 25 by the time the draft comes around. Burrow is 25 right now. Its easy to dominate 19-21 year olds when you're 24. He won't have that advantage in the pros.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Hooker is too old. Its not the same situation as Burrow. Hooker will be 25 by the time the draft comes around. Burrow is 25 right now. Its easy to dominate 19-21 year olds when you're 24. He won't have that advantage in the pros.

I think this is a fair point - the age in relation to competition, as opposed the age in relation to length of career.  To me though, the more important things are 1) is he going through his reads and making the right reads 2) is he getting the ball out on time, and 3) is his ball placement solid.  Lot of other nuances on top of those things though.

[HoggLife]

I remember when people use to say we would have drafted Mac Jones or Justin Fields if they would have dropped to us. Thank God that didn't happen. 

[skinsfan93]

11 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

I remember when people use to say we would have drafted Mac Jones or Justin Fields if they would have dropped to us. Thank God that didn't happen. 

No way we should ever take an Ohio State qb so no to Stroud!

[Zim489]

Alright what guard are we drafting now that we messed up our draft position? That will really push us over the top. 

[Warhead36]

6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I think this is a fair point - the age in relation to competition, as opposed the age in relation to length of career.  To me though, the more important things are 1) is he going through his reads and making the right reads 2) is he getting the ball out on time, and 3) is his ball placement solid.  Lot of other nuances on top of those things though.

The way I look at it is the upside isn't as high when you're already that old. You kinda are what you are.

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The way I look at it is the upside isn't as high when you're already that old. You kinda are what you are.

I think its impossible to gauge due to such the vast age difference. Like guys hes playing against were in still in elementary school when he was a freshman in college. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I know there are some good RB's in this years class, but let's not spend a 1st on one. Everybody liked Najee coming out but...

 

 

[Going Commando]

Najee is probably playing hurt and he's definitely playing behind a terrible offensive line in a dysfunctional offense.  Last year he made the Pro bowl as a rookie and had a 10 AV season.  That's a good year and strong production from a first round pick.  Him having a bad second season isn't a convincing argument for not picking a RB in the first.

Also, can we get a moratorium on posting bull**** stats from PFF?