The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[London Kev]

1 minute ago, markmills67 said:

Payne LTD? 

 

I hope he signs, but I put him at about 50/50.

 

[RWJ]

Just now, markmills67 said:

What about Payne? 

Totally different, I think.  He plays out his contract.  Mathis outplays Payne this year and Payne test the FA market and doesn't give us a hometown discount and we get a compensatory pick between a 2024 3rd and 5th.  JMO.    

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I think you may underestimate how we graded Howell. 

I dunno. We traded out of the 4th round for two 5ths rather than picking him. You don’t do that if you think a potential franchise QB fell into your lap.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[markmills67]

Just now, London Kev said:

 

I hope he signs, but I put him at about 50/50.

 

So you've no idea then fellow Britskin 😉🤣

[MrJL]

9 hours ago, Burgold said:

I don't really agree with Rivera's front office being as awful as the poster you quoted said, but it's hard to ignore the fact that he came in three years ago with a weak linebacking corp and problems at safety. Three years later, we still have questions at linebacker and safety. Strangely, these are two positions that are supposed to be relatively easy to fix.

Really?  As long term Redskins/Football Team/Commanders fan you're going to claim that.  Cause safety has rarely been a source of strength for us for decades.  Even Gibbs 1 had problems with it.  And linebacker.  Well I'm not going to deny we've had some good ones, but looking back, it feels like when we needed three good starters we had two and spot decent spot players and when we needed four we had two or three and some decent spot players

[Forever A Redskin]

4 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I dunno. We traded out of the 4th round for two 5ths rather than picking him. You don’t do that if you think a potential franchise QB fell into your lap.

 

I think the mindset was they couldn't believe Howell was falling, but they were also targeting Cole Turner. So instead of taking Howell in the 4th and Turner not making it to the 6th rounder... they looked at who was picking after them.... And traded to the first pick in the 5th round. Then used the second 5th on Turner.

 

Marty and Ron both said the meat of the draft was through the fifth round and I think their players in that 5th round range were starting to dry up, which is why they positioned to make the two picks in the top of the fifth.

 

Just my take on the situation.

 

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I dunno. We traded out of the 4th round for two 5ths rather than picking him. You don’t do that if you think a potential franchise QB fell into your lap.

I agree.
 

Franchise? I think it is now being overestimated as to how I suggested we graded him  

[Skinsinparadise]

Not that it matters but some rare optimism from beat guys, both Keim and Finlay think they win 10

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33905671/washington-commanders-2022-schedule-strong-start-must

Bold prediction

Washington wins 10 games and makes the playoffs. The Commanders bolstered their offense with Wentz and first-round receiver Jahan Dotson. Defensively, this will matter: In 2021, they faced six quarterbacks who finished in the top 10 in total QBR and nine of the top 14. This season they face two who were in the top 10 last season and only five in the top 14.

[Skinsinparadise]

Hopefully not below, the national media is really getting carried away with the Eagles from just abut every front, I am waiting for the slam dunk playoff predictions and probable division champs to soon become slam dunk SB winners.  Should we even bother playing the games this season?  Since the Eagles "won" the off season is everything just a moot point now?  😧

 

 

 

[mhd24]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Hopefully not below, the national media is really getting carried away with the Eagles from just abut every front, I am waiting for the slam dunk playoff predictions and probable division champs to soon become slam dunk SB winners.  Should we even bother playing the games this season?  Since the Eagles "won" the off season is everything just a moot point now?  😧

 

 

 

Slay is aging. He's 31 and will turn 32 at the end of this upcoming season.  CBs not named Darrell Green fall off big time as they enter their 30s.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Slay is aging. He's 31 and will turn 32 at the end of this upcoming season.  CBs not named Darrell Green fall off big time as they enter their 30s.

 

Hopefully it kicks in soon, judging by PFF he had a really good season last year.

[mhd24]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hopefully it kicks in soon, judging by PFF he had a really good season last year.

It's the Chris Dishman effect.  You can be all-world one year, and fall off completely the next.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

It's the Chris Dishman effect.  You can be all-world one year, and fall off completely the next.

 

Hopefully its not the Darrell Green effect. 

[Est.1974]

We should be bringing Bradberry in on a three year deal, with voidable years to spread the cap hit, and we should have CB as a high priority in the 2023 draft.

 

WJ3 and Fuller both have decent contract ‘outs’ after this season.

[sebestian]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Hopefully not below, the national media is really getting carried away with the Eagles from just abut every front, I am waiting for the slam dunk playoff predictions and probable division champs to soon become slam dunk SB winners.  Should we even bother playing the games this season?  Since the Eagles "won" the off season is everything just a moot point now?  😧

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more.  But all we have to do is beat them and win and the national narrative will change.

 

Look at the Maple Leafs last night.  Had a chance, let it slip away, until the get to the second rd. the narrative will be that they are not good enough.

 

Oh, by the way.....F THE EAGLES!!

[Jericho]

15 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I think you may underestimate how we graded Howell. 

 

I think you may underestimate how good Howell actually is. Also, if the team legitly thought Howell was a future starter, they would not have let him sit until round 5

[Jericho]

6 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I agree.
 

Franchise? I think it is now being overestimated as to how I suggested we graded him  

If he's not a franchise QB, then why would the team ever plan to start him? The question was if Wentz flames out, what would happen? If the team knows that Howell isn't the answer, then I stand by original answer. Howell is not plan a, plan a is go find a franchise QB

[Skinsinparadise]

Assuming his health checks out then I'd agree, he's a dude I've been the drum for a long time

 

 

LB ALEXANDER JOHNSON: WASHINGTON COMMANDERS

Johnson has had a unique career arc as a 30-year-old who only stepped into a starting role in 2019. He’s been one of the best run-defending linebackers in the NFL over the last three years, though. The only off-ball linebacker with a higher PFF run-defense grade than Johnson over the last three years (89.9) is Bobby Wagner. 

Washington has some options at the linebacker position with 2021 first-round pick Jamin Davis and Cole Holcomb, but they don’t have anyone on the roster to deter them from slotting Johnson into a starting role in the middle of their defense. He’s the top off-ball linebacker still available, even if there are some bigger names like Dont’a Hightower and Anthony Barr out there. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

This is interesting about Johnson which may cause pause for RR

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/37471/so-much-for-scouting-reports-broncos-alexander-johnson-josey-jewell-defy-expectations

 

Johnson had a four-year legal battle between his last game at Tennessee in 2014 and the first time he suited up for the Broncos in 2018. He was charged with aggravated rape in 2014, suspended from the Volunteers football team and formally indicted in Knoxville, Tennessee, in February of 2015.

 

Johnson was not selected in the 2015 NFL draft. And, in July of 2018 after three and a half years in the court system, he was acquitted of the charges and signed with the Broncos less than three weeks later. General manager John Elway said the team had conducted an extensive background check on Johnson and was "confident" Johnson could resume a football career.

 

From a football perspective, Johnson -- at 6-foot-2 and every bit of 255 pounds -- is simply far bigger than many inside linebackers in today's pass-happy NFL. The Broncos give him a long to-do list each week with his high-energy approach, and while he still has moments of what Fangio calls "reckless driving" on the field, he's played at a Pro Bowl level.

 

 

[skinsfan93]

I prefer to pass on Johnson. Sure he has the ideal size for a MLB but he is way too slow and could be slower since he turned 30. His 40 time is slower than Bostic. We need to continue adding speed on defense. 
 

I prefer a Nick Kiatwoski although he may sign w Falcons. Kwon Alexander is a bit undersized but he’s another option. The ILB choices are slowly dwindling and I don’t see us bringing in anyone until some cuts by other teams and even then they will be merely a backup. 

[Zim489]

On 5/11/2022 at 7:06 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Even if I felt as negative as you about Ron,

I guess I just dont see this team as anywhere close to competing for championships. I feel they are worlds away. This league is won with elite players starting with QB. We have maybe 1-2 on this entire roster that could be argued in the top 5-10 of their position group. A huge question mark at QB that if it doesnt work out with him were completely in the middle of no mans land like Ron has been in the previous 2 offseasons. Essentially making no progress towards winning a SB. 

 

I don't think this team is bad but I also think they are equally as far away as bad as they are to great. They a marginal team with solid depth across the board that lacks elite talent with a massive question mark at QB. All led by a sub par FO and a decent coach who teeters on out of date with philosophy. 

 

Were in no mans land. Too good to blow things up. Too entrenched with what we have to make major moves to get better. Its the worst possible place a franchise can be in. Personally Id rather be bad opposed to be decent. Decent is a time waste. At least when youre bad you can take swings at Elite QB prospects which is step one to becoming a SB contending team. Your odds with out one are near impossible. 

 

What I think happens is that this team under Ron is what happened post SB Panthers. A decent team that the fan base grows tired of the mediocrity. At some point the fan base doesnt care about how good the guy is he needs to win. And have 7-10 wins every year and not doing anything with it grows old.  

Edited May 13, 2022 by Zim489

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

I guess I just dont see this team as anywhere close to competing for championships. I feel they are worlds away. This league is won with elite players starting with QB. We have maybe 1-2 on this entire roster that could be argued in the top 5-10 of their position group. A huge question mark at QB that if it doesnt work out with him were completely in the middle of no mans land like Ron has been in the previous 2 offseasons. Essentially making no progress towards winning a SB. 

 

I don't think this team is bad but I also think they are equally as far away as bad as they are to great. They a marginal team with solid depth across the board that lacks elite talent with a massive question mark at QB. All led by a sub par FO and a decent coach who teeters on out of date with philosophy. 

 

Were in no mans land. Too good to blow things up. Too entrenched with what we have to make major moves to get better. Its the worst possible place a franchise can be in. Personally Id rather be bad opposed to be decent. Decent is a time waste. At least when youre bad you can take swings at Elite QB prospects which is step one to becoming a SB contending team. Your odds with out one are near impossible. 

 

What I think happens is that this team under Ron is what happened post SB Panthers. A decent team that the fan base grows tired of the mediocrity. At some point the fan base doesnt care about how good the guy is he needs to win. And have 7-10 wins every year and not doing anything with it grows old.  

 

I'd feel your point more if he acquired an 8-8 team on the rise versus a 3-13 and a dumpster fire version of 3-13 full of ugly on so many fronts. 

 

If Ron was treading water as you like to claim he'd be at 3-13.   That would mirror what he inherited.  Your beef is he hasn't lightening fast turned an awful team into a great team instead he turned an awful team quickly into a medicore one.  And you think he's already peaked at mediocre. 

 

He inherited a bad team, not a mediocre one. And elevating the bad team to a mediocre one has plenty of context behind it which you ignore.   The fact that you ignore all of it makes me think you don't like the dude and he has no shot of winning you over until they reach the level of success you want.  That's your prerogative but its tough for me to have a reasonable debate with you on the subject when the verdict is guilty unless proven innocent.   

 

I try to have some optimism about the coaches initially and give them some rope and consider context.  Zorn was the exception but that was only because he came off to me over his head and a bit of a buffoon.  I was actually an early critic of Jay but I also factored what went right as opposed to purely what I didn't like and said I'll give him some time.  I typically give coaches 3 years and then make up my mind. 

 

You seem to put no value on the following points

 

A.  turning around the worst culture in the league to something respectable

 

B.  Many say its tough to coach in the NFL but even tougher when you got to block out the noise.  Ron has this crap on his plate nonstop. 

 

C.  You blow off his improvement as meaningless.  As if every bad team turns around their team from awful to medicore in a blink of an eye.

 

D. Means nothing to you to have a likeable presence in the sea of being the most unlikeable team in the NFL considering who is running it

 

E.  You say you don't like Dan.  But in my book to play this out the way you want to comes off to me that you have all the faith in the world in him on this front at least.  Since you feel like he can easily absorb any backlash for firing the most likeable presence about this team -- and turn around the situation with name that stud GM or coach who would apparently have no hesitation to work for Dan.  And said person would shrug off the stories about Dan and laugh off the Rivera firing as some sort of anamoly for Dan who otherwise would be a joy to work with.   

 

The vibe I get from you is nothing changed at all as to the perception of Dan.  I get you don't think highly of him.  But based on what you want, it does feel like you think that 2022 Dan isn't in a different place than lets say 2012 Dan -- that is Dan can get whomever he wants.  The last 10 years or so hasn't really done much damage to his image.  He's seen like the 2012 Dan whiich is he's brash and a jerk, but he just wants to win and is still learning to do it, and his experience with Gibbs probably changed him some for the better. 

 

Personally while I agree, Dan certainly was looked upon poorly years back.  It's a new level of low that makes old school Dan feel like Shangra la.  Today's Dan is he's not learned squat.  He's cheap and does most things 2nd rate compared to the rest of the league.  It's an organization that has lost most of their relevance.  Worst stadium,  Worst facilities.  Under investigation for a number of things.  Dan is an established loser.  And no one buys anymore that he won't interfere.

 

In short, we are lucky to have Rivera.  I don't think he's an elite coach.  But a good one.  And if we fire him, we'd be back in that Zorn territory again and the only consolation for me on that would be Dan would have the coach he deserves.  And maybe that level of rock bottom might shake him finally though I have little faith in that.   

Edited May 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

3-13

Feel like you’re way too entrenched with this. It was a woefully coached team with easily the most out of date scheme after Jay was gone. With the least professional franchise in sports? Even that team I thought was ok. 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And you think he's already peaked at mediocre. 

Mostly because barring some miracle we’re so far from acquiring a Franchise QB. 

[Zim489]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

turning around the worst culture in the league to something respectable

 

B.  Many say its tough to coach in the NFL but even tougher when you got to block out the noise.  Ron has this crap on his plate nonstop. 

I have value in these but it’s so far behind the talent of the team in terms of importance. A good culture doesn’t make a decent team great. It’s just a bad culture makes a great team decent. 
 

I have zero expectations with what I have seen both here and Carolina Detroit Indy jax from where our FO brain trust built their resumes that were ever going to get the talent necessary whwre the culture actually matters. 

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

E.  You say you don't like Dan.  But in my book to play this out the way you want is comes off to me that you have all the faith in the world in him.  Since you feel like he can easily absorb any backlash for firing the most likeable presence about this team -- and turn around the situation with name that stud GM or coach who would apparently have no hesitation to work for Dan.  And said person would shrug off the stories about Dan and laugh off the Rivera firing as some sort of anamoly for Dan who otherwise would be a joy to work with.   

If a firing leads to a bad team to get us to a Frqnchise QB potentially I’m all here for it. Doesn’t matter who your coach GM owner is if you don’t have a franchise QB. As long as your in the middle your odds of getting one is slim. The QB is step one. Im doing any move that gets us closer to that player. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Feel like you’re way too entrenched with this.

 

It was a woefully coached team with easily the most out of date scheme after Jay was gone. With the least professional franchise in sports? Even that team I thought was ok. 

Mostly because barring some miracle we’re so far from acquiring a Franchise QB. 

 

While I disagree, it does bring consistency to where you are coming from which is apparently Ron inherited a decent 3-13 team.

 

So context from you is needed to explain that the 3-13 team was actually not too bad.  There is a glass half full take of that 3-13 team and lets judge Ron by grading up the team he inherited on a curve.  I don't see it the same way. Go through that 2019 Jay roster and compare it to now -- I think its borderline silly to say the rosters are apples to apples. 

 

Conversely, context doesn't matter for Ron's first year?  The only time he had servicable QB play that season they went 5-1.   Ended the season strong and played Tampa tough in the playoffs. But lets ignore context.  And stick to a glass half empty narrative.  And for last season, with the toughest schedule in the NFL, 4th most injuries, yet were poised to make the playoffs until the injury plagued team was also savaged by COVID -- but again context doesn't matter, lets run with the glass half empty narrative? 

 

But look if you want to see Jay's 3-13 team as having a more glass half full narrative because factor context and that context is used to denigrate Ron.  And conversely context doesn't mean squat to you for Rivera's more successful seasons -- then to me it brings home how biased you are.  If every point is flipped against Ron, I don't see how you are even a little objective.

 

I've agreed with and debated others on some coaches.  Heck even @Voice_of_Reason who relentlessly trashed Jay back in the day said to you that he was still way more open and objective about Jay than you are about Rivera.  I agree.  You are a closed book on Ron.  I am surprised you enjoy debating the topic so much.

 

For me its on the table for any coach to fail, i've been positive on some coaches like Shanny but then turned on him after year 4.  I might decide Ron's not the dude either.  But I've seen enough that I like to let the movie play out.   I can't just twist everything one way whether its positive or negative.

 

And yeah I do think Dan's odds of finding someone better is like 5% at best.  Like Sheehan said Dan outkicked his coverage when he landed Ron.  I don't think Ron would have come here if he knew about how things would implode nonstop since he's been there.  This place was a dumpster fire when he came but it hit epic levels really fast once he got here.  In my view, we are lucky he signed here BEFORE the name change, investigations, and all the crap that's has ensued.

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise