Assault on education

[NoCalMike]

We are seeing a new evolution in the culture war by the right because ever since the 90's they have been failing at making compelling arguments on their side of the issues such as marriage equality and even the trans bathroom thing.  So now basically what is happening is they will introduce a declaration to their bubble like "CRT in classrooms" or "K-3rd grade teachers banned from discussing gender  & sex" two things that aren't happening in the first place, but then they write these bills that purposely also include vague language that goes beyond what they were even arguing in the first place.

 

The "CRT in classrooms" stuff has already changed into "divisive racial issues" whatever the hell that means, and the Florida bill includes "...or anything deemed age inappropriate" which again is meaningless and specifically written in a way that allows any parent to make a complaint about pretty much anything.  The guy who first brought it up even admitted so that his goal was never even to debate actual CRT, but just to get it out there and have people repeating it while simultaneously attaching every weird and off thing they could to "CRT" 

 

It's one of the most transparently dishonest strategies I have seen in awhile and the fact that it is working is a poor reflection on our society at large.  The response of a lot of the youth gives me some hope at least.

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Larry]

3 hours ago, philibusters said:

My thoughts on education in a nutshell:

 

1.  I think the whole CRT debate is overblown.  Do I think that some social justice ideas have made it into a minority of school curriculums?  Yes.  Do I think that is a good thing?  No.  Do I think the Republican response is to make a mountain out of a molehill?  Yes.  Do I think when you encounter bad ideas you should try to point out their faults rather than ban or outlaw them in legislation?  Yes.  To sum up, I think the whole debate is a whole lot of talking about very little of substance

I think you're right, that the CRT outrage is pure theater. But it's theater with an agenda. And the agenda absolutely is important, and needs to be opposed. 
 

Just as with many (all?) of the GOP agenda, yelling a lot about "CRT" is a cover story. The actual agenda, is to literally make it illegal for people to say that racism is bad. Or that it even exists any more. 
 

(Analogy:  The GOP constantly trying to claim that the election was stolen by vast levels of voter fraud, in important. Because it's being used as a cover story to try to mask very real, calculated, orchestrated efforts to suppress thousands, maybe even millions, of votes.)

[philibusters]

6 hours ago, Larry said:

I think you're right, that the CRT outrage is pure theater. But it's theater with an agenda. And the agenda absolutely is important, and needs to be opposed. 
 

Just as with many (all?) of the GOP agenda, yelling a lot about "CRT" is a cover story. The actual agenda, is to literally make it illegal for people to say that racism is bad. Or that it even exists any more. 
 

(Analogy:  The GOP constantly trying to claim that the election was stolen by vast levels of voter fraud, in important. Because it's being used as a cover story to try to mask very real, calculated, orchestrated efforts to suppress thousands, maybe even millions, of votes.)

 

I don't think the Republican agenda is to make it illegal for people to say racism is bad or doesn't exist anymore.  I think what is driving their actions is they have a political winner.  The reason their actions are popular is because the general public doesn't really like the social justice flavor that got into some curriculums.  The Republicans thus have a winning action and different Republicans have tried different strategies to run with the issue.  But ultimately Republicans are not idiots, they understand if the issue is  about making it illegal for people to say racism is bad or that it doesn't exist--they are going to lose that issue horribly.  Its not an issue they can win on.  So far the Republicans have beat the Democrats on the framing of the issue.

 

I think the Democrats have a bad hand on this but I I am also not sure they have played their hand well.   They have a bad hand because when people see the actual examples social justice concepts in question, I think a majority don't like it.   In terms of strategies the Democrats in a broad sense had two strategies.  1) deny that CRT is being taught in school and say the issue is about teaching black history and acknowledging racism exists or 2) Embrace the social justice concepts that have crept in a minority of school curriculums and defend them on their merit.  For the most part Democrats chose option 1.   But the results have been similar to Hillary Clinton's email scandal where she denied there were ever any classified emails sent or received on it and then had to endure a year of occasion news coming out that they found new classified material or material that should have classified but wasn't on it.  Likewise, I have seen enough things come out on TV and Youtube showing actual class material to know that in some, probably a small minority of school districts, that social justice ideology did get into the class material.  When new material like that is constantly leaking out, it erodes your credibility.  Hindsight is 20-20 but the Democrats might have been better off just acknowledging it and trying to defend it on its merits, just like Hillary probably would have been better off saying from the start "I had my own email server, it was designated for non-classified material, but a very small amount of classified material may have been sent or received using the server" so that when new material came out it didn't conflict with her story and therefore was news.

[NoCalMike]

Part of me thinks that the reason this issue is winning (on the wrong side) is because so many parents are living in their Fox News/youtube bubble and their children/teens are rebelling against it, either in the more vague "teen angst" variety or in more specific political/life views and the parents are not happy about it and looking for someone/something to blame.  The GOP has merely found a few places to direct that anger and have convinced all these parents it is due to "indoctrination" rather than you know, history & the real world out there.  There has already been the "don't come back from college a commie" sentiment for awhile, but that is no longer good enough.  Now it appears that if your 3rd grader hears about someone with two mommies, they are being indoctrinated with the "gay agenda" 

 

This largely has nothing to do with the actual kids (outside of a few rare extreme examples I am sure we could find) and everything to do with the Parents.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[NoCalMike]

10 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

 

I wish someone could have played that during the Supreme Court nominee hearings for no legitimate reason or anything.....just so we could get a shot of the faces of Blackburn, Cruz, Hawley, Cotton, & others.   Ok, to troll. I meant to troll. 

 

But on a serious note, that video sort of is an example of what I was saying in my earlier reply.  This is about the disdain certain parents have for the LGBTQA+ community and nothing to do with "protecting kids" 

[Larry]

Oh, I'm sure that the spaghetti pile that is the excuses for passage of such an obvious package of legislated discrimination has a lot of strands in it.  Or at least, different ways of trying to package the same theme.  

 

There's the folks who are bigoted, but who've figured out that when they express their bigotry, people look at them funny and back away.  And they didn't change their minds, they just got angry at being forced to keep their mouths shut.  

 

No doubt, there's the folks who've been trying to pass those beliefs on to their kids, and the kids aren't buying it, because the kids are learning differently when they step out of the bubble, into reality.  

 

I've been a fan of this one for years:  

 

 

 

 

 

[Simmsy]

I really hope that these red states that pass these terrible education bills lose accreditation. I would love any blue, out of state college to look at a students courses and the school they went to and say "No, thanks". These idiots can get their degrees from Trump university.

[philibusters]

16 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

I really hope that these red states that pass these terrible education bills lose accreditation. I would love any blue, out of state college to look at a students courses and the school they went to and say "No, thanks". These idiots can get their degrees from Trump university.

 

Not a fan of that.  I think the Republicans overreacted to a  very minor issue and if universities reacted in such a manner, they would be overreacting.  They would be overreacting because while these new laws are stupid and a net negative they are unlikely to have a significant effect on student's readiness for college.  Its like kids in the backseat.  They keep hitting each other because neither one can just let it go and eventually they are both crying and hate each other because the hitting keeps getting harder.

 

And just from a pure political perspective, that would be a loser for the Democrats.  Its is possible that the Republicans are already overplaying their hands.  If universities blackballed students from conservative states it plays right into the stereotype that universities are dominated by social justice activists, that universities don't value diversity of viewpoints, and so on.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, Simmsy said:

I really hope that these red states that pass these terrible education bills lose accreditation. I would love any blue, out of state college to look at a students courses and the school they went to and say "No, thanks". These idiots can get their degrees from Trump university.

I think the people supporting these measures would approve of that result. 
 

Our nation is becoming a segregated society. Because a large segment wants one. 
 

In fact, the primary reason these measures are being pushed, is "my kid left the bubble I live in, came back, and told me I was wrong. I demand that nobody ever tell my kid anything that I don't want them to find out!"

[LD0506]

[NoCalMike]

I was listening to the radio while dropping my kids off to work today and they were talking about kids mental heath related to the pandemic and the guest brought up a pretty good point that the "what about the children's mental health?!?!" crowd tends to have a lot of overlap with the same parents who prior to the pandemic would be the first to say today's kids are too sensitive, bully is a party of life, safe spaces are stupid, just get over it etc etc......So you can sort of put together the fact that while yes the pandemic/distance learning did probably create some mental health issues in some children, it also very likely exacerbated issues in a lot of children that were already present, yet being ignored by their suddenly concerned parents. 

 

This kind of shows that the entire issue was used more as a political football to anger a voting base rather than actually address the mental health of kids.

[China]

5 hours ago, LD0506 said:

 

Clearly because you're a beautiful butterfly.

 

 

BTW, are they trying to ban that book, because it is obviously a book about being trans.

[China]

40% of school administrators threatened by parents last year according to study

 

School administrators have seen an influx of violent threats from parents during the pandemic, according to a recently released technical report from the American Psychological Association. 

 

“This is a new problem,” a staff member who was surveyed wrote. “It used to be the kids. Now, it is the adults.”

 

The aggression mostly came from parents who did not want their children to wear a mask to school, parents who had politicized the pandemic or by parents who blamed the schools for learning loss, according to the Violence Against Educators and School Personnel: Crisis During COVID report.

 

The survey was answered by about 15,000 employees during the 2020-21 academic year. It found that one-third of teachers said they’d been threatened by students during COVID-19. 

 

Administrators were the most likely to answer that they’ve been threatened with violence by parents, with 40% stating they’d experienced it during that academic year. About 29% of teachers said that a parent had threatened violence against them. 

 

Middle school teachers were the most likely to answer that they’d received violent threats from students and parents.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[tshile]

@LD0506

both my children love that book

i love that book

😂 

[Destino]

I’ve spent too much time on twitter, but I’ve heard some education related chatter that is alarming.  I’m seeing many people claiming to be teachers saying that at teacher workshops and training much of what’s covered is pro communism and heavy on hard left advocacy… and there is no conservative or pro capitalist stuff at all.  Anyone know if this is true?  
 

The reason is ask is because it’s disengenious to argue that there nothing explicitly hard left in the curriculum, while the entire staff is being trained with material radically left as communism.  I can’t imagine the outrage if US teachers were all sent to christian camps for moral education.  It wouldn’t matter if they had any explicitly christian lesson plans, it would inevitably bleed over.  
 

Anyone know if it’s true?  It’s probably not, but I figured I’d share. 

[mojo]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:51 AM, LD0506 said:

My kids love that book. Has it really turned into a trans issue? And if so, how?

Edited March 28, 2022 by mojo

[Destino]

2 minutes ago, mojo said:

My kids love that book. Has it really turned into a trans issue? And if so, how?

Did it turn your kids into hungry little caterpillars?  

[NoCalMike]

2 hours ago, Destino said:

I’ve spent too much time on twitter, but I’ve heard some education related chatter that is alarming.  I’m seeing many people claiming to be teachers saying that at teacher workshops and training much of what’s covered is pro communism and heavy on hard left advocacy… and there is no conservative or pro capitalist stuff at all.  Anyone know if this is true?  
 

The reason is ask is because it’s disengenious to argue that there nothing explicitly hard left in the curriculum, while the entire staff is being trained with material radically left as communism.  I can’t imagine the outrage if US teachers were all sent to christian camps for moral education.  It wouldn’t matter if they had any explicitly christian lesson plans, it would inevitably bleed over.  
 

Anyone know if it’s true?  It’s probably not, but I figured I’d share. 

 

"people claiming to be teachers" well first of all, were any materials/curriculum actually provided in form of screen shots, which was then verified?  If there was any truth to this I'm sure Fox News would have been all over it months ago. It would be pretty east to publicly show the books that are being used to teach the students. Provide a syllabus in a screenshot or something more substantial. 

 

My experience isn't relevant most likely since I was in high school during the 90's but for us it was mostly straight down the middle learning supply side theory vs demand side theory, pros & cons of each, remedies etc etc.....it's been awhile but if memory serves me correct it seemed like the tone of the teacher suggested at the time he leaned a bit towards supply-side/Reaganism/trickle down, but he never explicitly said so and pretty much just let the curriculum itself provide the information.

Edited March 28, 2022 by NoCalMike

[Destino]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

 

"people claiming to be teachers" well first of all, were any materials/curriculum actually provided in form of screen shots, which was then verified?  If there was any truth to this I'm sure Fox News would have been all over it months ago.

 

Nothing is verified on twitter man.  That place is a mad house where the most fringe political groups have the loudest voices.  I also wouldn’t know what’s on Fox News because I love myself to much to watch that ****.  

 

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

 

My experience isn't relevant most likely since I was in high school during the 90's but for us it was mostly straight down the middle learning supply side theory vs demand side theory, pros & cons of each, remedies etc etc.....it's been awhile but if memory serves me correct it seemed like the tone of the teacher suggested at the time he leaned a bit towards supply-side/Reaganism/trickle down, but he never explicitly said so and pretty much just let the curriculum itself provide the information.

That was my experience as well.  

[NoCalMike]

5 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

Nothing is verified on twitter man.  That place is a mad house where the most fringe political groups have the loudest voices.  I also wouldn’t know what’s on Fox News because I love myself to much to watch that ****.  

 

 

 

Oh for sure, I more meant that if some of those claiming to be teachers, attending workshops, at least provided screen shots of some materials or what it is they were supposedly reading etc etc....then more people would look into it off of twitter to validate or refute their claims. I am sure right-wing media at large would pounce at an opportunity like that.

 

It reminds of the CRT being taught in Virginia claims, and they screenshot what they falsely claimed was a guideline for teaching kids, so it kind of made the rounds for a couple weeks in all the right-wing circles on social media, until it got big enough that actual journalists looked into it and it turned out to be materials for the faculty staff only that talked about discrepancies in punishments being handed out between races for the same or similar offenses and how they needed to be consistent in appliying punishment across the board in a similar fashion. I still see someone try to point to that as "CRT in schools" in some of the twitch/youtube "debate bro" circles too.

[China]

Republicans Are Furious That People Are Calling Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” Bill a “Don’t Say Gay” Bill

 

Earlier this month, the Florida state legislature passed a ban on certain classroom instruction about LGBTQ life. Critics have dubbed it a “Don’t Say Gay” bill, part of a class of anti-LGBTQ censorship legislation gaining steam across the country.

 

The bill would allow parents to sue a school district if they believe a teacher has taught children in third grade or younger about “sexual orientation or gender identity,” or taught older students about such topics “in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate.” It would also force schools to notify parents if they begin providing support to queer or trans students who come out. Gov. Ron DeSantis is expected to sign the bill into law.

 

Leaders of LGBTQ advocacy groups maintain that the bill is vague and broad enough to create a chilling effect among teachers and school administrators, such that none will want to risk potentially ruinous lawsuits by even mentioning the existence of gay or trans people in classrooms.

 

But conservatives say Democrats and LGBTQ activists are making a big deal out of nothing. Republican officials and right-wing commentators deny that the bill is anti-gay and insist that it will neither discriminate against queer and trans students nor prohibit normal, age-appropriate discussion of LGBTQ culture and history. In a tweet this morning, Tim Carney, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, criticized “the media” for peddling a “false story” that the Florida bill “prohibits ‘discussion’ of sexual orientation.”

 

In fact, the very first page of the bill’s text states as its purpose: “prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels or in a specified manner.”

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

I have to assume someone will challenge the law in court under the 1st amendment.  Of course if it gets to the current Supreme Court, they would probably uphold it.

[TheGreatBuzz]

11 minutes ago, China said:

have to assume someone will challenge the law in court under the 1st amendment.  Of course if it gets to the current Supreme Court, they would probably uphold it.

 

I'm hoping someone sues a teacher for mentoring their spouse of the opposite gender.  What's good for the goose, etc......

[NoCalMike]

"normal age-appropriate discussion of LGBTQ culture & history" is the issue because what exactly does that mean, who decides that in the micro vs macro.  I assume the state sets those standards up the chain of command, yeah?  So who is to say the bill doesn't pass and then they go and start messing with the standards which provide the guidelines in the first place?

 

Also, "making a big deal out of nothing: is precisely how you would describe writing a bill that addresses a non-existent problem in the first place.  That is wasting tax payer time & money on a fundamental level. 

 

Lastly, being forced to out kids to their parents is an interesting demand since there also isn't supposed to be discussion of this stuff in the first place, so are teachers supposed to just sleuth this out based on gender stereotypes not being displayed?