The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariota and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[CommandB11]

Did I miss this being discussed?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/heinicke-hang-rg3-believes-washington-154054943.html

[Cooleyfan1993]

22 minutes ago, CommandB11 said:

Did I miss this being discussed?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/heinicke-hang-rg3-believes-washington-154054943.html

Lol RG3 is so stupid. No, bozo, heinicke isn’t going to “undercut” whoever the starting QB is in the future……the only reason heinicke even became the starter this season is cause wentz got injured, and wentz wasn’t lighting it up at all when he wasn’t injured. Anyone with half a brain knows that if the starting QB was actually worth a ****, the starting QB would’ve came back after the 4 week IR, regardless of the team/heinicke winning games.
 

Look at Dak Prescott for example! He missed 4 games I think it was, and even though the backup was winning games, Dak Prescott returned. Why? Because he’s actually worth a ****!! 

[zCommander]

Taylor moves up 1 spot. 

 

Rank

22

1

 

Taylor Heinicke

Washington Commanders · Year 5

2022 stats: 6 games | 60.8 pct | 1,169 pass yds | 6.8 ypa | 7 pass TD | 5 INT | 61 rush yds | 1 rush TD | 2 fumbles

 

Heinicke roams as an adventurer. Turnover-worthy throws mixed with a handful of heaters that somehow do just enough to keep these Commanders alive until the end. He's been helped by play-caller Scott Turner's creative, ground-based scheme, which ranks second league-wide in carries per game (37) and average time of possession (34:30) during Heinicke's run. Beyond all that, though, there's something a tad mystical about how teammates and coaches respond to the oft-fired-up signal-caller. We are contractually obligated to ignore QB WINZ, but would any of this be happening with glass-of-milk Carson Wentz at the controls?

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-13-2022-season-rankings

 

[Warhead36]

I'm watching Josh Allen just make some ridiculous plays. I'm so jealous. 

[FLSkinz83]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm watching Josh Allen just make some ridiculous plays. I'm so jealous. 

 

I also saw him make two "turnover worthy" throws in a span of three plays.   

 

But yes, he's a great QB.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The Taylor appearance on Bussin with the Boys just came up on my feed, and watching him re-tell the story of him starting that playoff game, along with the clips…

 

I feel like the folks that ride or die for Heinicke always see the Heinicke that played that game and that’s why you will defend him to the death.

 

If we got that Heinicke every week, I would probably ride or die for him with you guys.  It feels like ancient history now, but he put up 3 hundy through the air and 46 on the ground.  I can live without the 300 in the air but it sure would be nice if he could find those 46 on the ground again.

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

I wanted to like and I laugh at the same time as well. Becuase somehow I fell in my own smart ass hole. Well done Jumbo. 👍

 

But yeah at this piont we are just surving regardless of arm strenght and constantly brining that up does nothing for me anymore. Survive and win is all there is left now. 

 

Just how drunk are you tonight?

[KDawg]

31 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I also saw him make two "turnover worthy" throws in a span of three plays.   

 

But yes, he's a great QB.

I can’t handle some of you.

[FLSkinz83]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I can’t handle some of you.

 

ah, c'mon.  give it a try.  

[KDawg]

Just now, FLSkinz83 said:

 

ah, c'mon.  give it a try.  

If you don’t know the difference between Josh Allen and Heinicke you should really think of a new hobby.

[FLSkinz83]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If you don’t know the difference between Josh Allen and Heinicke you should really think of a new hobby.

 

C'mon man.  You actually think anyone in the sane world thinks TH is in the same galaxy as Allen?    I was just mocking this whole obsession with TH's "turnover worthy" throw nonsense.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

C'mon man.  You actually think anyone in the sane world thinks TH is in the same galaxy as Allen?    I was just mocking this whole obsession with TH's "turnover worthy" throw nonsense.

Yes. Yes I did think you thought that.

[Jumbo]

43 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I also saw him make two "turnover worthy" throws in a span of three plays.   

 

But yes, he's a great QB.

 

_

[FLSkinz83]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yes. Yes I did think you thought that.

 

I don't think TH is better than Wentz all things being equal.    I think Howell has more potential than TH.

 

 

[Captain Wiggles]

Idk Josh Allen coulda taken more advantage of the back judge being there on that throw he lobbed into triple coverage. 🤪

 

 

 

[CommanderCarson]

10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s almost as if you are completely ignoring the numerous posts by a variety of posters that have explained in various levels of detail the stark differences between the makeup of the team today, both from a roster and strategy standpoint.

 

I don’t think anyone is interested in seeing Wentz behind Nick Martin and the gang, without BRob, and without a greater emphasis on running the ball.  I doubt anyone is clamoring to drop Wentz back 40+ times a game increasing the likelihood of sacks and offensive holding penalties that put them behind the sticks.

 

It’s hard to take you guys seriously that outright refuse to acknowledge the distinct differences between the makeup and strategy of the team early in the season as opposed to what it’s looked like of late.  Literally every argument is Wentz takes a million sacks and can’t tie his shoes, zero objectivity.
 

Right now my money is on Heinicke getting the opportunity to lose 2 games before he’s pulled.  Which will give you guys a great opportunity to slam Wentz when he likely doesn’t win out to make the playoffs and we’ll get to hear all offseason long about how unfair it was to Heinicke and how he would have moxied the troops to the promise land.  Can’t wait.

No one is ignoring the fact that the roster has evolved this year and that we are only winning games because of heineke, no one is saying that and if they are please direct me to where those posts exist.

 

I even acknowledged in my post that Wentz holds the running game back, which is part of what you are referencing would be a crux for Wentz if he came back in! There’s a reason the style of offense we run right now is not very conducive to Wentz being behind center. We are routinely picking 3 and 4 yards up every play, leaving the run game available…most every play. That’s a huge reason why we feature Robinson so much and it works to not be explosive on offense. Outside of the bad and random Heineke weekly pick, he doesn’t really take negative yards or sacks, which are typically far more damaging plays.  Heineke taking 3 sacks in 6 games vs Wentz taking that in a single game is not a result of the offensive line suddenly growing super powers mid year or because heineke is working with the far superior supporting cast. I mean Dotson and Cosmi both missed a lot of time recently with Keineke under center and Wentz had both surrounding him. Acting like Heineke is running with an A+ squad vs Wentz is disingenuous. Nick Martin sucked, but so did Carson Wentz. And I was cool with trading for Wentz, it made sense to me. But call a spade a spade my man. 
 

Also, please stop setting up future hypotheticals so you can claim you were right in the future. You were wildly wrong on Heineke being a viable starter that could win games with any NFL team after the last few games last year, take the loss and move on. 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just how drunk are you tonight?

 

If I was I actually would have made more sense. It sounded pretty compling when I quoted you. lol

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

If I was I actually would have made more sense. It sounded pretty compling when I quoted you. lol

ohh, you got so close to not seeming drunk here! 

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

ohh, you got so close to not seeming drunk here! 

 

It was a long day and my sarcasm ran out of some moxie lol

[NeverSurrender]

53 minutes ago, CommanderCarson said:

No one is ignoring the fact that the roster has evolved this year and that we are only winning games because of heineke, no one is saying that and if they are please direct me to where those posts exist.

 

I even acknowledged in my post that Wentz holds the running game back, which is part of what you are referencing would be a crux for Wentz if he came back in! There’s a reason the style of offense we run right now is not very conducive to Wentz being behind center. We are routinely picking 3 and 4 yards up every play, leaving the run game available…most every play. That’s a huge reason why we feature Robinson so much and it works to not be explosive on offense. Outside of the bad and random Heineke weekly pick, he doesn’t really take negative yards or sacks, which are typically far more damaging plays.  Heineke taking 3 sacks in 6 games vs Wentz taking that in a single game is not a result of the offensive line suddenly growing super powers mid year or because heineke is working with the far superior supporting cast. I mean Dotson and Cosmi both missed a lot of time recently with Keineke under center and Wentz had both surrounding him. Acting like Heineke is running with an A+ squad vs Wentz is disingenuous. Nick Martin sucked, but so did Carson Wentz. And I was cool with trading for Wentz, it made sense to me. But call a spade a spade my man. 
 

Also, please stop setting up future hypotheticals so you can claim you were right in the future. You were wildly wrong on Heineke being a viable starter that could win games with any NFL team after the last few games last year, take the loss and move on. 

They just cant stand it man.  

[petey hodge]

[Captain Wiggles]

Everyone deserves to find that special someone that looks at them the same way Taylor Heinicke looks at Carson Wentz. 😍

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

C'mon man.  You actually think anyone in the sane world thinks TH is in the same galaxy as Allen?    I was just mocking this whole obsession with TH's "turnover worthy" throw nonsense.

 

Of course you did. And you're using the whole "plausible deniability" tactic where you don't directly make a comparison verbatim, but you're doing it implicitly. That way when someone calls you out for it you can claim you weren't actually making the comparison you clearly were making.

 

Some Hivers did the same thing with Heinicke and Tom Brady. They'd say something like "The only other QB to do x in y games was Tom Brady" then when asked why on earth Taylor Heinicke should be compared to the greatest QB to ever step on a field, they play innocent and say "Well of course I wasn't comparing Heinicke to Brady, that would be silly!"

 

It's dumb and old.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

35 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Of course you did. And you're using the whole "plausible deniability" tactic where you don't directly make a comparison verbatim, but you're doing it implicitly. That way when someone calls you out for it you can claim you weren't actually making the comparison you clearly were making.

 

Some Hivers did the same thing with Heinicke and Tom Brady. They'd say something like "The only other QB to do x in y games was Tom Brady" then when asked why on earth Taylor Heinicke should be compared to the greatest QB to ever step on a field, they play innocent and say "Well of course I wasn't comparing Heinicke to Brady, that would be silly!"

 

It's dumb and old.

 

Nope, don't even slightly agree.

 

I see WAAAAY too many make that insane jump of "Are you really comparing (fill in the blank) to (much better player)" all the time, to the point that I started adding disclaimers to some of my posts, saying things like "And, no, you chuckleheads lol...I am not comparing the two". I understood exactly what he was commenting on when I read his "turnover worthy" post. And I understand exactly why some here interpreted it the wrong way and are hellbent on insisting their interpretation is the right one.

[zCommander]

I agree with Califan. The commentator said oh that was almost intercepted.. The first thing came to my mind was all the talk about the almost INTs Taylor throws and how people think he is the only QB in the NFL who does that - at lease that is what it looks like when you read these post about it on that subject. I understand that Taylor is not given a lot of passing plays so the few he does have has has to be perfect or else we have this need to tear it apart lol 

 

Even the elite QBs make bad throws every game and these QBs have super-duper arms to boot. There were even couple of throws Allen made down the field that were almost intercepted and were also very inaccurate.This reminded of an article I read while back about QBs with a strong arm. 

 

Quote

 

At least one NFL coach believes being an exceptionally hard thrower can actually stunt a quarterback’s development. Kyle Shanahan of the San Francisco 49ers has long been convinced that big-armed passers usually don’t throw with much anticipation because they think it isn’t necessary for them.

 

“They play their whole life waiting to see guys open in a hole, and then they let it rip,” Shanahan said. “Guys who don't have that – and not a lot of guys do – they have to have more anticipation. They have to throw it earlier, they have to see it before it happens, so right when their receiver turns, it's in the window.”

 

Perhaps the strongest evidence of how meaningless arm strength can be in quarterback evaluation is this: According to Ourlads.com, Logan Thomas shares the second-fastest throw recorded at the Combine since 2008 with a 60 mph clocking in 2014. At the time, he was a quarterback at Virginia Tech.

 

“I might be able to throw it harder than you, but you might actually get the ball there quicker because you anticipated (better),” Beane said. “It’s knowing where to go with the ball. I can throw it as hard as I want, but (it does no good) if I don’t know how to read coverages and understand what they're in – Two Man or Cover One, Cover Three. It doesn’t help me to have a 75 mph fastball if I don't know where I'm going with it.

 

“You need to show me how quick you process, how quick you get back and how quick you get the ball out. You see these guys that do what I call throwing guys open. (The receiver’s) not even past his guy and (the quarterback’s) already dropping it in the zone for him to catch it. Peyton Manning did that to a T. Some of those O-lines he had weren’t the greatest, but he made them great. He figured out the defense and he got them in the right call and the ball was out.”

 

Manning wasn’t the only all-time great quarterback whose cerebral prowess served him well.

 

 

Okay back to almost INTs. I wanted to come here and say the same thing but knew it would be taken out of context for obvious reasons. I won't add any disclamiers and I shouldn't have to. I come here to discuss on how I see it. I have no problem comparing a play or a pass or whatever that I see someone else do it or does it better or not. In my book that is not saying they are them. You can always find a QB that has a similar playing style or throws. It should never be taken out of context. No one should be saying Taylor IS Tom Brady lol which no one is and probably won't be. But we can all hope to get someone like a Tom Brady - a franchise QB that is really good who can be part of the team for years to come and get us some SB rings too. 

 

The search continues.... enjoy or not the moxie ride until then.