The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That's hogwash that you've talked yourself into because of your crystal ball of drafted QBs. This fanbase lost patience 10 years ago.  For good reason, I might add.  

 

Younger fans aren't yearning for anything other than something resembling a good time, fun offense, and wins. They don't really care how they get it. In the last 15 years, we drafted Jason Campbell, who in his first year was labeled a slow moron, Griffin (who was a special case), Cousins, who a lot of fans wanted out of here and Haskins.  

 

There was an anti-whoever movement almost immediately for ALL of them except Griffin.  

 

Haskins was drafted in 2019.  There wasn't exactly a big movement to prop him up.  He played badly in his first game, and I had to come on here and elsewhere and declare that one half of bad football didn't mean anything in either direction.  I was SHOCKED how many people had their minds made up after 1 half of football for a guy who came in off the bench.  

 

If he keeps up the pace he's on, Wentz will throw for 40-50 TDs, and there will be movements to build a statue to him, and young fans and old will love it.  And some of his mistakes will become "Wentz being Wentz."  

 

 

 

Yep.  The NFL has changed.  Good teams have explosive passing games.  We've not majored in that.  We've not been part of that party. Agree people wanted Kirk out of town but he ironically was one of the few here who did it decently -- I recall being at the NO game and being wowed that we had an offense that could keep pace with Brees.  So novel for this team.   Kirk though wasn't clutch.  And he wasn't RG3.  And some took Bruce's side in the negotiation.  So it didn't go well.

 

Some reporters were surprised that the attendance flagged with Alex as QB when they were even 6-3, ended up 6-4 after the Texans game.  I was at the Tampa game, their last win with him that season.  It was fun to win but the game was like watching paint dry.  When we had explosive offenses on the other side that season -- Atlanta, New Orleans, we got blown out.   In short, it was a boring offense to some and they came off like a team that even if they squeezed into the playoffs they'd lose to the big boy teams.

 

Looks like they may have finally found a today's NFL offense.  Not just Wentz but the receivers.  Cole Turner was hot in camp.  I am intrigued to see what he does.   Robinson will be back.  This could look even better.  This looks like a potentially exciting offense for a change.  An offense which actually can come back when they are down.  Not to jinx it.

 

And if its obsession with young QBs.  Howell IMO looked better potentially than either Haskins or Campbell.

 

We need this defense fixed.  But as for QB -- passing game -- Rivera might be on the right track and that would be wildly novel for this team. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Was checking out some of the league passing stats and once again (at least through the first 2 weeks) it looks like the trade for Wentz was a complete and utter flop for us.

 

While the highly respected paragon of quarterback excellence and virtue, Matt Ryan, is lighting things up for the Colts on an mvp level that the league hasn't seen in years, we're left with the totally befuddled, over matched, dinking and dunking, weak armed and liver lipped, turnover machine known as Carson Wentz.

 

Just look at this article on Wentz...

 

 

"Carson Wentz

...Carson Wentz is among the league leaders in several statistics among quarterbacks.

• 2nd in passing yards (650) behind Tua Tagovailoa (739)
• Tied for 1st in touchdowns (7) with Patrick Mahomes and Tua
• 1st in completions of 20+ yards (10) — Derek Carr and Russell Wilson are tied for 2nd with 9
• Tied for 2nd in completions of 40+ yards (2); Tua is #1 with 4
• 8th in passer rating (minimum 30 attempts) at 100.3
• 10th in yards per attempt (minimum 30 attempts) at 7.5 ypa
• 12th in completion percentage (min 30 attempts) at 65.5%"

 

Just disgustingly God awful decision making and evidence of a near complete inability to comprehend even the most basic fundamentals of quarterback play.

 

At this point the only thing keeping Wentz from the  benching he richly deserves is the organization's  embarrassment in publicly admitting their inexcusable error in trading for him in the first place.

 

Jim Irsay is surely reading the league stats with his morning tumbler of bourbon while shaking uncontrollably, laughing at our team's complete ineptness and sticking covid infected needles into his Carson Wentz voodoo doll.

 

Stay calm and carry on and be thirsty my friends.

 

.

Edited September 20, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, srtman04 said:

When was the last time we have a QB throw 40 - 50 TD's in a single season?   '91 Superbowl Team?  

Never.  The record is held by ... wait for it, wait for it, SONNY JERGENSEN at 31, set in 19-freaking-67.  (Yes, Sonny was THAT good THAT long ago.)

 

Second on the list is a tie for 29, Kirk in 2015, and Joe Thiesman in 1983.

Third is a tie between Sonny in 1966 and Rypien in 1991 at 28.

 

We haven't had a QB throw for more than 30 since 1967.  

 

Wentz could OBLITERATE the single-season number.  He's on pace to come reasonably close to doubling it.  (Which he won't, but that's his pace as of now.) 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

2016 -- 3rd in yards.   6th so far this year.  Agree better in the red zone.  Weaker run game so far IMO.   Defense might be even worse.   They got picked apart by arguably two mediocre Qbs but its early. 

They haven't had that "monster" game yet.  Which I think they will have at some point.  If you're going to be up in the top 5, there are always a few monster games, 500, 550 yards, which push the needle up.  

 

Maybe it's that I've completely talked myself into it, but I think the defense will be better than the 2016 defense.  Just because we've seen this group of players play at a higher level. 

 

Though, I do think by the end of the season, Goff specifically and maybe Lawrence won't be seen as complete schlubs.  Goff might end up having a pretty good year.  It would be crazy if the Ram's ditched him, literally paid another team to take him, and then he rebounds to be a good QB.

 

I think this offense is going to be better in the end.  Definitely in points, probably in yards.  Run game will get better when a RB is on the field.  Gibson isn't a RB. Though he ran well in the opener, it's just not his bag.  

 

There is a line from House of the Dragon, where Daemon, talking about his brother, who is the king,

- "It was never my brother's strongest trait." 

- "what?"

- "Being King." 

 

That's what I feel about Gibson.  It never was his strongest trait.  Being a RB.  

[Warhead36]

Wentz will easily surpass 30 TDs assuming health. Might even come close to 40 with our skill players and terrible D forcing us into shootouts.

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

Was checking out some of the league passing stats and once again (at least through the first 2 weeks) it looks like the trade for Wentz was a complete and utter flop for us.

 

While the highly respected paragon of quarterback excellence, Matt Ryan, is lighting things up for the Colts on an mvp level that the league hasn't seen in years, we're left with the totally befuddled, over matched, dinking and dunking, weak armed and liver lipped, turnover machine known as Carson Wentz.

Nominee for post of the year It's still early.  

 

But as of now, I think trading 2 mid-round picks and paying the salary seems worth it.

 

Here's the other side of the coin:  None of the rookies are playing.  Mitch has thrown for a total of 361 yards, 2 TDs and 1 INT. Mariota has gone for 411 yards, 2 TDs and 2 INTs. 

 

FWIW, Baker has thrown for 380, 2 TDs and 1 INT. 

 

And Matt Ryan has thrown for 547, 1 TD and 3 INTs.

 

So, of the available options, Ron seems like he picked the best one.  

 

Wilson also hasn't been lighting the world on fire.  559, 2 TDs, 1 INT.  

 

Of all the QBs that moved around, Wentz is by far having the best start to the season.

 

Does it continue?  Anybody's guess.  If they don't get the OL figured out, the whole thing is going to go up in flames.  But absent that, they should be a top10, and maybe top 5 offense all year.  

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Wentz will easily surpass 30 TDs assuming health. Might even come close to 40 with our skill players and terrible D forcing us into shootouts.

I think he could push 50.  The Defense is going to be bad all year, and they are going to have to score 30+ to win games.  He's on pace for 59.  I don't expect that to continue. But I think you are going to see some more 3 and 4 TD games.  

[Inigo Montoya]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, it doesn't quite work that way.  

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't explain this well, I get how moving money around works with these. My thought is, with contracts today (QBs APR for higher end talent is crazy) and without guarantees does Carson play on those two unguaranteed years? I don't see it. So extend him, add the guarantees and move money out to pay for our lack of Defensive talent. 

 

Our lack of pursuing high end Defensive help and getting creative with contracts this year was so frustrating. Lack of confidence in Carson reaching previous form is the only explanation. 

[Warhead36]

31 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I didn't explain this well, I get how moving money around works with these. My thought is, with contracts today (QBs APR for higher end talent is crazy) and without guarantees does Carson play on those two unguaranteed years? I don't see it. So extend him, add the guarantees and move money out to pay for our lack of Defensive talent. 

 

Our lack of pursuing high end Defensive help and getting creative with contracts this year was so frustrating. Lack of confidence in Carson reaching previous form is the only explanation. 

Most likely we will extend him this off season. Rivera needed to see him play for a year first. That's kind of his MO. Remember he wanted Trent Williams to play too before giving him a long term extension. Also wanted to see Haskins play.

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Most likely we will extend him this off season. Rivera needed to see him play for a year first. That's kind of his MO. Remember he wanted Trent Williams to play too before giving him a long term extension. Also wanted to see Haskins play.

 

I am confused or maybe don't know all the contract stuff but we have Wentz for 3 years. Only this year is guaranteed. So no need to extend until after 2024. Correct?

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I am confused or maybe don't know all the contract stuff but we have Wentz for 3 years. Only this year is guaranteed. So no need to extend until after 2024. Correct?

By extending him we can push money forward to free up cap space, which we'll need to overhaul this lousy defense.

[Skinsinparadise]

The Athletic, fun read

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Jbird7]

Right now we have the best performing QB in the league.....

I don't anticipate that changing due to the skill players around him.

 

We should be happy right?....

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Llevron]

22 minutes ago, Jbird7 said:

Right now we have the best performing QB in the league.....

I don't anticipate that changing due to the skill players around him.

 

We should be happy right?....

 

Oline is in trouble broseph. It can get really bad for him when he doesn't have room to throw it and the league likes to attack QBs like that if they can. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I didn't explain this well, I get how moving money around works with these. My thought is, with contracts today (QBs APR for higher end talent is crazy) and without guarantees does Carson play on those two unguaranteed years? I don't see it. So extend him, add the guarantees and move money out to pay for our lack of Defensive talent. 

Well, frankly, he doesn't have a choice.  Because his other choice is to not play.  He's under contract with the Commanders for 2 more years after this one.

 

There was literally NO CHANCE we were going to extend him prior to the season.  A QB on this third team in 3 years, it wasn't going to happen.  Also, Carson might not have wanted to accept an extension at that point.  With all the Dan swirl, as a very, very religious man, that might have been a big deal for him.  And unlike with McLaurin, where he HAD to take a deal, because not doing so would lose him $20m of career salary he was never going to get back, Carson has already made over $100m and was scheduled to make another $80 on the remaining 3 years of his deal.  So he could just have sat back and said, "let's see how this plays out."

 

Regardless, the absolute best part of the trade with the Colts is it was almost a "no strings attached" deal.  Yeah, a 2nd and 3rd are a high and a mid-round pick.  But they could get out of it without any issues if Wentz turned out to be more the 2020 Wentz than the 2018, 2019 and 2021 Wentz.  They weren't going to commit future salary cap hits, and probably a BIG dead cap hit after one year, before seeing him play.

 

Now they've seen him play 2 weeks.  It looks like they basically got what they paid for.  So this off-season, I think there is a much better chance they could extend him for 3 years, lower his cap hit next year, and free up more money.

 

They could even do it in-season if they wanted to.

 

But again, there was no way they were going to do this before seeing him play.  They wanted to hedge their bets.  

 

Personally, I liked that.  We traded for Alex Smith, and immediately gave him a huge new deal.  Lowered his initial salary cap number, but then we were committed to him for at least 3 seasons.  This coaching staff did not want to do that with Wentz.  I don't blame them.  

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yeah, maybe 2015 Peyton who was completely washed up. But the Colts don't have that same stacked roster those Broncos did.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Warhead36

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The Athletic, fun read

Is this the same guy who was sitting in Irsay's suite at the combine and responsible for spreading the Irsay Gospel?  Who went on Standig, Sheehan and Galdi's shows to "spread the gospel according to the Colts?"  

 

I think there are 2 Athletic beat reporters for the Colts.  One was less egregious than the other, but I don't know which was which.  

 

Because if so, I think he should shove it up hos ass sideways because he was 100% part of the Wentz slander train.  

 

The Athletic reporters were some of the most aggressive at pushing the Irsay agenda.  

 

I guess they feel used, and now they are pushing back a bit. 

 

Too little, too late.  

 

Go **** yourselves.  

 

Btw, Ron looks a hell of a lot smarter than Irsay/Reich/Ballard at this particular moment in time.  Sure, maybe he overpaid a little at the time (I don't even know if that was true, and have posted that a bunch), but he ended up with the better QB and the better offense.  

 

The defense sucks toes.  But the offense is going to keep them in just about every game. I'm positive they will blow a close game with a late-game interception along the way.  They will also win a few with late-game heroics.   Caveat: as long as the OL doesn't completely implode because of injury.  Then we're in for a REALLY rocky ride.  

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah, maybe 2015 Peyton who was completely washed up. But the Colts don't have that same stacked roster those Broncos did.

2015 Peyton won games with his brain when he couldn't throw the ball through a pane of glass.  

 

Ryan can't do that.  

[Mrshadow008]

3 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

Oline is in trouble broseph. It can get really bad for him when he doesn't have room to throw it and the league likes to attack QBs like that if they can. 

I don’t think o line is as bad as it’s being made out to be. The first half on Sunday wasn’t on Wentz and it wasn’t on the oline. Go back and watch the Philly-Lions game. The lions blitzed almost every single down. The only thing that really saved Philly was Hurts running ability. Scott should’ve done what he did early in week 1 and gone with a lot of quick game stuff to 1) get Carson in a rhythm 2) get the ball out of Carson’s hand and into the hands of our playmakers 3) help neutralize and take advantage of all the extra rushers. Nope instead the lions came out and did exactly what they did against Philly and we decided hey let’s run slow developing plays with 5 step drops or a slow developing screen pass with a fake reverse while the lions bring 5,6,7 guys every down while leaving our olineman on an island. As good as Scott was in week 1 he was equally as awful in the first half this week. I’d argue that’s the worst half of offense he’s called since he’s been here. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This fanbase would have run Allen out on a rail after his first year. 

 

 

This pretty much backs up your point lol...

 

 

[Warhead36]

Allen is the exception but even with his erratic play, he did show flashes his first couple of seasons. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Allen is the exception but even with his erratic play, he did show flashes his first couple of seasons. 

It wouldn’t have mattered. The fan base would have turned on him before his 8th game. Our idiotic local media coverage would have labeled him a bust. Said that this is not the place that develops QBs.  Then they would have turned on whoever the GM and Coach were. Said they went out and again got a QB who was a developmental project and over drafted, or reached, for him.   There would have been no leniency or time given.  It would have been a negativity show from the second game forward.  
 

And it would have soured Allen on our team and fan base. 
 

We’ve turned into a massively negative fan base, with a local media that is ready to pounce and criticize everything.  Because honestly, at this point, a lot of people want to hear the piling on.  
 

We had the rookie of the year who had an outstanding season and people called him a bust after 3 games of his sophomore campaign. 
 

It’s ludicrous.
 

 

[NoCalMike]

Consider the fact that Wentz is putting up these stats so far, with a lackluster run game, a questionable interior O-line, and the offense not really firing on all cylinders for at least 3 of 4 quarters in a game yet.  I am not saying Wentz is going to be levels better than what we see right now, but if the O-line can improve it's pass blocking, and the return of BRob in a few weeks provides some kind of semblance of a legitimate running game, it is going to help out Wentz & the passing game a lot. 

 

We can argue where exactly Wentz falls as far as NFL starting QB's, but once you go outside those Top 5-6 elite QBs that do it all every time they are under center, Wentz is likely somewhere in that next tier.  His mistakes will never allow him to be ranked too high on most people's lists, but he is a legitimately highly skilled QB with all the tools.  Even watching him vs the next best thing we've had in years (Cousins) there is a remarkable difference in the eye test and how Wentz actually seems in......command of the offense (pun....intended?) vs Cousins who always seemed to play like a AI robot out there with mixed results.

Edited September 21, 2022 by NoCalMike

[Koolblue13]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

We had the rookie of the year who had an outstanding season and people called him a bust after 3 games of his sophomore campaign. 
 

It’s ludicrous.
 

 

We were right.