The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

If you dont have a franchise QB you literally have a ZERO percent chance of winning the Super Bowl. I have been screaming for 20 years to draft a QB in the middle of the first round. Now we have a blue chip QB fall into our laps and those that dont want to trade back are brainwashed?

 

It's also worth noting, it isn't that you have to take a QB if you have a top pick, it's you have to take a QB if you have a top pick, there's a high end QB prospect, and you do not have a franchise QB on the roster. If we had Justin Herbert like we could have, I'd be saying trade down for Nabers, an OT, or Bowers, but we don't, we have no QB talent on the roster other than 5th round, bottom quartile (with upside) finishing Howell, which makes this as easy as pie to figure out. Of course you go QB, anything else would be the height of grand mal stupidity and the fact that a good 20-40% of redskins/wft fans don't get this, after the Chase Young disaster and the past 30 years is utterly inexplicable to me. 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Maybe they’ll decide its not worth it to give fields away for scraps and keep him, use their 1st and 9th picks on MHJ/O-line instead, and let caleb fall to us for free. A man can dream

 

[DogofWar1]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

It's also worth noting, it isn't that you have to take a QB if you have a top pick, it's you have to take a QB if you have a top pick, there's a high end QB prospect, and you do not have a franchise QB on the roster. If we had Justin Herbert like we could have, I'd be saying trade down for Nabers, an OT, or Bowers, but we don't, we have no QB talent on the roster other than 5th round, bottom quartile (with upside) finishing Howell, which makes this as easy as pie to figure out. Of course you go QB, anything else would be the height of grand mal stupidity and the fact that a good 20-40% of redskins/wft fans don't get this, after the Chase Young disaster and the past 30 years is utterly inexplicable to me. 

I mean, back in ye olden times, that was a fine strategy.

 

And if any fanbase could be forgiven for thinking that, it'd be us.  Winning 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs, none of whom were ever in that Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Manning (Peyton) tier.  And most of the time not even in the tier below that.  And they didn't need to be, it was a completely different game.

 

But people gotta let go of the past.  It's a whole different ball game.

[RVAskins]

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yes thank you. 

 

Also, people need to stop just assuming NFL strength training regimens are leaps and bounds above D1 college programs, especially a top notch one like LSU's. Makes me laugh when people say "when player X enters a professional strength training regimen" as if he was chopping wood and punching bags of meat Rocky style in college.

I think there is more to it than just strength training. NFL teams usually have top notch nutritionists who can make sure the athlete is eating the right foods.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

I think there is more to it than just strength training. NFL teams usually have top notch nutritionists who can make sure the athlete is eating the right foods.

 

As do huge D1 football schools, like LSU. 

 

Daniels reportedly was about 6'4 175 out of high school (good lord). Not sure what he was at when he left ASU, but if he's close to 200 now then that's at least 20lbs he's put on. Considering how slight his frame is in general, I think it's really unlikely he's going to be able to put on much more muscle.

 

That, and historical precedent, is what makes me say that a team who drafts him has to be prepared for the likelihood that his weight is his weight. If he's hovering around 200 then that's probably going to be his playing weight in the NFL. Then take that into account when evaluating.

[redskinss]

30 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Maybe they’ll decide its not worth it to give fields away for scraps and keep him, use their 1st and 9th picks on MHJ/O-line instead, and let caleb fall to us for free. A man can dream

 

I'm assuming this was tongue in cheek but just in case it wasn't ill reply with this.

 

Your suggesting the bears might want to trade their starting quarterback but decide to stick with him and bypass a generational prospect because they found out he isn't worth ****?

 

Do I have that correct?

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As do huge D1 football schools, like LSU. 

 

Daniels reportedly was about 6'4 175 out of high school (good lord). Not sure what he was at when he left ASU, but if he's close to 200 now then that's at least 20lbs he's put on. Considering how slight his frame is in general, I think it's really unlikely he's going to be able to put on much more muscle.

 

That, and historical precedent, is what makes me say that a team who drafts him has to be prepared for the likelihood that his weight is his weight. If he's hovering around 200 then that's probably going to be his playing weight in the NFL. Then take that into account when evaluating.

 

When his weight keeps getting brought up the topic is usually can he stay healthy but there was one analyst ( I can't remember which one) that brought up another good point that gets a little overlooked. 

 

His weight will also be a problem because when rushers get their hands on him he'll be very easy to take down.

 

The heavier stronger quarterbacks can get out of the grasp of defender’s a lot easier than someone who's 200.

[zCommander]

19 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Please stop with this stuff. This. Doesn't. Happen.

 

Every year there's some skinny player that everyone just says "Oh in the NFL he can put on another 15-20lbs and be fine." It doesn't work that way unless you want the guy to drink melted ice cream until he puts on 20lbs of pure fat.

 

If you draft Daniels it has to be with the underlying assumption that he's not going to magically pack on 20lbs of muscle and he'll most likely be hovering around 200lbs or so. Then you take that into account when evaluating.

 

Tom Brady would like to have a word with you...

 

[DogofWar1]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

When his weight keeps getting brought up the topic is usually can he stay healthy but there was one analyst ( I can't remember which one) that brought up another good point that gets a little overlooked. 

 

His weight will also be a problem because when rushers get their hands on him he'll be very easy to take down.

 

The heavier stronger quarterbacks can get out of the grasp of defender’s a lot easier than someone who's 200.

 

It was one of Paulsen/Hoffman/Tice iirc, I need to go back and rewatch the post combine thing they did to see who said it.

[redskinss]

3 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

It was one of Paulsen/Hoffman/Tice iirc, I need to go back and rewatch the post combine thing they did to see who said it.

 

It was Tice.

Thx.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Tom Brady would like to have a word with you...

 

Why does it not surprise me that you decided to take the exception to the rule and portray it as anything but an outlier? 

 

Brady went from 211 to 225. So he put on about 14lbs. We also have no clue what span of time that was over. It could have been very slowly and steadily over 20 years. He also had a bigger overall frame than Daniels.

 

Daniels is the same height and likely at or a little under 200lbs right now. He has a very slight frame with narrow shoulders, hips, and legs. The idea that he's going to come in and just suddenly pack on 20-25lbs of muscle is idiotic and isn't going to happen.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

31 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

I'm assuming this was tongue in cheek but just in case it wasn't ill reply with this.

 

Your suggesting the bears might want to trade their starting quarterback but decide to stick with him and bypass a generational prospect because they found out he isn't worth ****?

 

Do I have that correct?

MHJ is also being touted as a generational prospect, so they would in theory just be foregoing one for the other. They still have another cheap year of Fields before he needs to be paid, I’m simply saying put some crazy weapons around him, a better o-line and see if you can’t at least raise his value before shipping him off next offseason at a better price, rather than the pitiful sell-low they’re facing at the moment

Edited March 10 by WashingtonRedWolves

[redskinss]

Just now, WashingtonRedWolves said:

MHJ is also being touted as a generational prospect, so they would in theory just be foregoing one for the other. They still have another cheap year of Fields before he needs to be paid, I’m simply saying put some crazy weapons around him, a better o-line and see if you can’t at least raise his value before shipping him off next offseason at a better price than the pitiful sell-low price they’re facing at the moment

 

So it wasn't tongue in cheek and you danced around the main theme of my question.

 

Do you seriously think it would be wise to pass up on Caleb williams to stick with a quarterback who you can't get anything for in order to try to increase his trade value for next year?

 

That would be lunacy!

[DogofWar1]

Imma go dig up some qb weights in HS vs College vs NFL, brb.

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

MHJ is also being touted as a generational prospect, so they would in theory just be foregoing one for the other. They still have another cheap year of Fields before he needs to be paid, I’m simply saying put some crazy weapons around him, a better o-line and see if you can’t at least raise his value before shipping him off next offseason at a better price, rather than the pitiful sell-low they’re facing at the moment

 

Generational QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Generational WR

[DogofWar1]

Herbert

HS - 6-5 215 - College - 6-6 225 - NFL 6-6 236

+10 HS2College, +11 College2Pros

Lamar Jackson

HS - 6-3 185 - College - 6-2 212 - NFL 6-2 215

+27 HS2C, +3 C2P

Josh Allen

HS - 6-5 210 - College - 6-5 222 - NFL 6-5 237

+12 HS2C, +15 C2P

Sam Darnold

HS - 6-3.5 208 - College 6-4 220 - NFL 6-3 225

+12 HS2C, +5 C2P

RGIII

HS - 6-3 195 - College 6-2 3/8 223 - NFL 6-2 213

+28 HS2C, -10 C2P

Jared Goff

HS - 6-4 185 - College 6-4 215 - NFL 6-4 217

+30 HS2C, +2 C2P

 

So kinda all over the place, but for most people, they put on the vast majority of their weight between HS and college, and put on a little more between college and pros but it's inconsistent.

 

Of course these are "official" numbers so for HS and college it's possible they may not be 100% accurate, but I imagine for most they're pretty close.  Weight games are not THAT common.

 

This is part of what makes me antsy about Daniels.  6-3 175 in HS, and allegedly 210 in college but +35 pounds would be the most of all the people I peeked at, and he doesn't pass the eyeball test at first glance.  I wish he'd weighed in at the combine.

 

If he is legitimately 210, then I guess I'm fine with him, most guys do put on at least a few pounds from college to pros, so getting him to 215 isn't out of the questions and while 215 is probably on the low end of preferred, it's serviceable.

 

But if he's 200...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, that's not good.  Only Allen and Herbert added more than 10 pounds from college to the NFL, but 1) they are bigger guys, 6-6 and 6-5, and 2) they put on less weight from HS to College (and both were already pretty big in HS, 200+).

[MisterPinstripe]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Generational QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Generational WR

Calvin Johnson is a great example of that. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Maybe they’ll decide its not worth it to give fields away for scraps and keep him, use their 1st and 9th picks on MHJ/O-line instead, and let caleb fall to us for free. A man can dream

So if the rest of the league tells the Bears Fields is worth nothing, you think their logical response will be to decide that actually, he’s worth more than Caleb Williams to them? They can’t pull a 3rd from another team in a QB-starved league but to the Bears, Fields suddenly becomes worth more than the #1 pick? 
 

Edited March 10 by Conn

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Herbert

HS - 6-5 215 - College - 6-6 225 - NFL 6-6 236

+10 HS2College, +11 College2Pros

Lamar Jackson

HS - 6-3 185 - College - 6-2 212 - NFL 6-2 215

+27 HS2C, +3 C2P

Josh Allen

HS - 6-5 210 - College - 6-5 222 - NFL 6-5 237

+12 HS2C, +15 C2P

Sam Darnold

HS - 6-3.5 208 - College 6-4 220 - NFL 6-3 225

+12 HS2C, +5 C2P

RGIII

HS - 6-3 195 - College 6-2 3/8 223 - NFL 6-2 213

+28 HS2C, -10 C2P

Jared Goff

HS - 6-4 185 - College 6-4 215 - NFL 6-4 217

+30 HS2C, +2 C2P

 

So kinda all over the place, but for most people, they put on the vast majority of their weight between HS and college, and put on a little more between college and pros but it's inconsistent.

 

Of course these are "official" numbers so for HS and college it's possible they may not be 100% accurate, but I imagine for most they're pretty close.  Weight games are not THAT common.

 

This is part of what makes me antsy about Daniels.  6-3 175 in HS, and allegedly 210 in college but +35 pounds would be the most of all the people I peeked at, and he doesn't pass the eyeball test at first glance.  I wish he'd weighed in at the combine.

 

If he is legitimately 210, then I guess I'm fine with him, most guys do put on at least a few pounds from college to pros, so getting him to 215 isn't out of the questions and while 215 is probably on the low end of preferred, it's serviceable.

 

But if he's 200...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, that's not good.  Only Allen and Herbert added more than 10 pounds from college to the NFL, but 1) they are bigger guys, 6-6 and 6-5, and 2) they put on less weight from HS to College (and both were already pretty big in HS, 200+).

 

Only one in here I'm not so sure about is Josh Allen. Did Wyoming have him listed as 222? Because he weight in as 237 at the combine.

 

Edit: Justin Herbert also weighed in at 236 at the combine.

Edited March 10 by mistertim

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

With Mac Jones getting a 6th round pick (oof) I think the Bears will have to settle for whoever will give anything over a 5th for Fields.

Fields is worth more than that and I think they will get offered more than that. Not sure exactly what - but Fields has shown a lot more overall potential (and production) than Jones over the last two seasons. 
 

Thing with Fields though is his running ability is a key part of the package. He’s not shown he can consistently produce just based on his arm.

[DogofWar1]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Only one in here I'm not so sure about is Josh Allen. Did Wyoming have him listed as 222? Because he weight in as 237 at the combine.

 

Edit: Justin Herbert also weighed in at 236 at the combine.

 

Found this:

 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Found this:

 

 

Right. I was talking more about their playing weight in college vs their combine measurements. Guys can put on a little bit of weight between the end of the season and the combine, but I doubt it's 15lbs as it would have been in Allen's case. So maybe 222 was his listed weight when he was earlier in his Wyoming career?

[DogofWar1]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Right. I was talking more about their playing weight in college vs their combine measurements. Guys can put on a little bit of weight between the end of the season and the combine, but I doubt it's 15lbs as it would have been in Allen's case. So maybe 222 was his listed weight when he was earlier in his Wyoming career?

Oh gotcha.  Very possible.  Not sure how to find weight throughout college without sifting through tons of like, weekly reports from each year.

[ntotoro]

3 hours ago, smooth said:

I know im in the minority , but im saying we stick with howell, look at his numbers the 1st 10 games , and he was getting killed..build the line around him and see what he can do..trade back and get extra picks .. 

 

If it was a later first-round pick... maybe and draft a QB later. 

 

When you have a top 2-3 pick, take a QB. If you get it wrong, keep trying until you get it right. 

[Skinsinparadise]