The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

This is where I am at. But if the decision makers decide Daniels is the guy I would be completely fine with that as well. 
 

I think it’s going to be Maye though. 

 

I'd think they made a mistake if they pick Daniels over Maye, because I wouldn't do it myself.  I know I like Drake better and have been 100% certain about that the entire process.  But I can accept that some prefer Daniels, and I can see how that choice could work out and that he could end up being good enough to justify the decision in the end.

 

That's the only alternate path at 2 that I can get behind though.  I don't see why we'd choose the lower floor, lower upside path, but we'd at least be taking a real swing at a worthy QB prospect.

 

Picking Drake Maye #2 is the no-brainer choice.  He's the wire to wire #2 overall pick in this class since basically October or November of 2022.  We should just pick him.

 

The only real intrigue about our choice for me comes in to play if Caleb Williams forces his way out of Chicago at #1.  Then I think we have to choose between playing chicken with the Bears and staying put, or moving up for Caleb.  But because I think Drake Maye is almost as good as Caleb, I'm pretty certain I would not be trading up to bail Chicago out of their predicament if I were the GM.  I'd either force them to find someone else to deal with and thus punt on getting their franchise QB, or pass on Caleb and pick Maye.

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

IME this whole "trade down" thing is more ideological than practical. It seems like every single year we have a group of people who want to trade down, regardless of the situation (in this case: having no QB) or the draft position. So I try to mostly ignore it because the answer almost every time is "BUT WE HAVE ALL TEH HOLES IN TEH ROSTUR!! MUST GET MOAR PIKS!!11!!"

I'm done with trading down. Literally every time we've done it we've passed on blue chip talent.

 

Passed on Watt for Kerrigan in 2011.

 

Passed on Olave and Hamilton for Dotson in 2022.

 

I want quality. Not quantity. We have enough JAGs. Lets get some legit studs.

[Est.1974]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

 

I want quality. Not quantity. We have enough JAGs. Let’s get some legit studs.

That’s why you trade to #1 in this draft

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Something I was actually wrong about with Maye, that I thought after just watching a few games vs. later watching real cutups and focusing on him, is that I believed he was mostly a pocket guy who did well within a system but didn't really have much strength in improvising or going off-script. He actually does. He's not on the level of Williams, but he absolutely can pull rabbits out of hats at times as well as make plenty of off-platform throws at odd arm angles.

Yeah I was surprised by that as well. People made it sound like he was a complete garbage tier at playmaking outside of structure but he's actually quite good at it. He's very Josh Allen-esque except maybe a bit smaller.

 

Honestly if he didn't go to the same school as Howell I think there would be a lot more people in favor of him. I don't really see why so many are so against him beyond the normal young QB issues that need work that every QB has coming in.

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

That’s why you trade to #1 in this draft

The Bears aren't going to trade the pick so that's a moot argument.

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

The Bears aren't going to trade the pick so that's a moot argument.

So hypothetically if they were willing to, would you go to #1 for Williams or not ?

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

If you pass on a franchise QB and you don't have one, then no matter what haul you get in exchange for passing on that guy, you are in a horrible situation.  You can not build franchise stability without a good long term plan at QB.  It is impossible.  If we pass on franchise QBs this year to trade down for picks, and we don't immediately mitigate that colossally stupid **** up by securing a franchise QB anyway via other resources, then everyone we're hiring this offseason will be gone in three years.

 

Punting on QB in this draft, with this #2 pick, would be such a horrible mistake that nothing could get me to check out on our rebuild faster.  Trading down is absolutely unacceptable.

x10. It would suggest that despite turning over everything, we still managed to find a colossal idiot to lead this turnaround to nowhere. We are not sitting at the top of the 2013, 2014, 2016 (to me), 2019, 2022 draft classes empty of elite QB options at the 2 slot. This class is very similar to 2012, 2015, 2018, 2020, 2021 and 2023 where are a multitude of legit stud QB prospects. We don't know what will come of it, but it's patently obvious that this is a class where you just pull the trigger and hope you land on the good side of the coin flip. If not, we'll belly up to the bar again in '26, if we hit, we're set, if we trade down, the odds are overwhelming that we permanently neuter the rebuild potential. 

[Command The 414]

6 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

So hypothetically if they were willing to, would you go to #1 for Williams or not ?

I would definitely think they have make the call right? At least see where Pace & Co mind set is… nothing beats a quitter but a try… I just wouldn’t get to carried away with giving away a kings ransom… I’m all for this seasons and even a player, but I’m not fancy on next seasons picks that would need to be given …plus I think w/Maye & Daniels (and who knows after the combines, and Pro Day Workouts on College Campuses Bo Nix and/or JJ McCarthy or someone else moves up exceptionally higher then they already are)….I think standing at 2 is where we end up come draft day 

Edited February 9 by Command The 414

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm done with trading down. Literally every time we've done it we've passed on blue chip talent.

 

Passed on Watt for Kerrigan in 2011.

 

Passed on Olave and Hamilton for Dotson in 2022.

 

I want quality. Not quantity. We have enough JAGs. Lets get some legit studs.

 

Even after the first round -- passed on Tyler Lockett for Jamison Crowder.  Passed on Demarcus Lawrence for Trent Murphy.  

 

Gettng the next best guy instead of the best guy might be part of the reason why this team doesn't do All Pro players or superstars.

Edited February 9 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

47 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I'd think they made a mistake if they pick Daniels over Maye, because I wouldn't do it myself.  I know I like Drake better and have been 100% certain about that the entire process.  But I can accept that some prefer Daniels, and I can see how that choice could work out and that he could end up being good enough to justify the decision in the end.

 

That's the only alternate path at 2 that I can get behind though.  I don't see why we'd choose the lower floor, lower upside path, but we'd at least be taking a real swing at a worthy QB prospect.

 

Picking Drake Maye #2 is the no-brainer choice.  He's the wire to wire #2 overall pick in this class since basically October or November of 2022.  We should just pick him.

 

The only real intrigue about our choice for me comes in to play if Caleb Williams forces his way out of Chicago at #1.  Then I think we have to choose between playing chicken with the Bears and staying put, or moving up for Caleb.  But because I think Drake Maye is almost as good as Caleb, I'm pretty certain I would not be trading up to bail Chicago out of their predicament if I were the GM.  I'd either force them to find someone else to deal with and thus punt on getting their franchise QB, or pass on Caleb and pick Maye.

I think the only area I'd quibble with is the ceiling angle. I think both Daniels and Maye can have ridiculous ceilings. If Daniels proves to be an elite tight windows thrower in the NFL (Im moderately skeptical of that to flat out skeptical) and he can stay healthy, his ceiling is through the roof. Maye's ceiling if he can clean up mechanics/footwork etc, and max out his tools/traits is also through the roof. So I think in terms of ceiling, both have exceptionally high ceilings, my problem with Daniels is that:

#1 I think Maye's chance of reaching his ceiling or close to it is about 35-55%, while I think Daniels chance of hitting and sustaining that ceiling (apply that sustaining to both QB's) is significantly lower, I'd probably put it at 20-35%

 

#2 I think Maye's floor is basically an average starting QB because of his tools and the perception of mental make up. The floor simply isn't that low. The floor with Daniels to me is much lower, it's flat out bust, or injured and out of the league. 

 

So in some ways, funnily enough, that would almost make Daniels more worthwhile to me because at least if he misses, it's straight up obvious, and you can go back to the QB Board in '26 while tanking, while if you half miss with Maye, and he's closer to the floor than the ceiling, you almost certainly just have a QB producing seasons of #'s similar to Carr or Good Dalton, what I mean by that being, solid, competent QB play, in which case you're screwed and can't go to drawing board because a mediocre Maye scenario still can turn you into a 7-10 win team on the regular.

 

That's really my only concern with Maye. That we end up with a Derek Carr type production QB, good enough to not replace, not good enough to matter. At least with Daniels, this ---- either works, or it blows up in your face. With Maye, I definitely think he's either gonna be a grandslam/home run pick, or a single, he's not gonna be a strike out. 

 

But, when I watch, read about, and think about Maye, what I perceive as most likely is a QB somewhere between 4th and 12th in the league by '26, and that's the best we've had since Cousins and peak Rypien and Theismann with the chance to even better, so that's what I'd be going for. 

[mistertim]

51 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I was surprised by that as well. People made it sound like he was a complete garbage tier at playmaking outside of structure but he's actually quite good at it. He's very Josh Allen-esque except maybe a bit smaller.

 

Honestly if he didn't go to the same school as Howell I think there would be a lot more people in favor of him. I don't really see why so many are so against him beyond the normal young QB issues that need work that every QB has coming in.

 

Some of the issues raised about Maye, which are valid but IMO are things that the majority of college QBs have to improve on, as you noted.

• Inconsistent and sometimes sloppy footwork and mechanics. This results in some accuracy issues and will cause the ball to sail on him at times. I noticed it more with shorter drops and throws like slants, quick outs, etc. where he got sloppy and didn't set his feet and relied too much on his arm.
• Somewhat related to that: Superman complex and tendency to play hero ball, leading to some bad decisions and throws. He trusts his arm, which is good in general, but sometimes he trusts it to his own detriment. He'll end up making a bad play instead of getting rid of the ball or running out of bounds and living to fight another down.
• He's generally good at going through progressions and seems pretty good at reading what defenses are doing but he can be fooled by post-snap movement and miss coverage changes, leading to bad reads or even interceptions.
• Had some subpar games against top competition.

The first three aren't uncommon with college QBs and can be improved (though the hero ball thing tends to be a bit more of a personality trait, so it's more likely that you aim to cut down on it a bit vs. trying to get rid of it)

 

The last one is a legit concern, though I'd hesitate to put it a ton of the blame on Maye. He wasn't exactly surrounded by a stellar cast. His OL was pretty much crap (especially when compared to teams like Michigan, Washington, Oregon, and LSU), they had a mediocre run game, and he was throwing to receivers who will likely never hear their names called on draft day.

 

That's certainly not meant to absolve him of any blame for poor play, but it at least has to be taken into account when scouting those specific games.

Edited February 9 by mistertim

[The Consigliere]

49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm done with trading down. Literally every time we've done it we've passed on blue chip talent.

 

Passed on Watt for Kerrigan in 2011.

 

Passed on Olave and Hamilton for Dotson in 2022.

 

I want quality. Not quantity. We have enough JAGs. Lets get some legit studs.

In fairness, we need to do both, those trade downs are immaterial to me, I could care less, but if you ask me if I would do them again, I'd sayu yes, I jus twould have taken different guys and probably traded down more, Walsh in '86 style.. I just think this is simple, take the ----ing QB. It's obvious, necessary and the only way to build an elite team going forward. No QB, we don't matter, period.

 

Secondly, we have 2 2nds and 2 3rds and an early 4th. We have a giant pile of picks to trade down or up with. We can still trade down quite easily, or out. Our early 1st rounder is not the only pick we can spin out into more gold. We have 2 2nds and 2 3rds. 

 

Personally, I'd be looking to trade down or out with the later 2nd depending upon what's available there. I would absolutely want to spin one of the seconds or thirds into a day 3 pick in '25, and something else in '24. 

 

Trading down is fine in general and usually a good idea, but honestly a team like ours can and should do it in day 2 and day 3 (4th rounder for instance will be valuable, maybe spin that for multiple picks in the 5th and next years 4th) not with our 2nd. In the future we'll be able to justify moving up or down on day 1, but right here, right now, it makes no sense to me. Until we have a QB, we have nothing, and we have our best shot at landing that QB at 2. 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

New Ryan Wilson mock with Spielman there from a couple of hours ago. He couldnt talk about pick two. But he did say some things about the cost to trade up to one. Leads me to believe we have no interest in that. Also spoke on Fields. That aint happening either imo. 

 

[The Consigliere]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Even after the first round -- passed on Tyler Lockett for Jamison Crowder.  Passed on Dexter Lawrence for Trent Murphy.  

 

Gettng the next best guy instead of the best guy might be part of the reason why this team doesn't do All Pro players or superstars.

Nah, its having an idiot owner, idiot Gm, and idiot coaches and scouts, pretty consistently. How much talent can you hire, and legit keep in DC, during the Snyder era? Honestly. Trading down is not a problem, drafting the wrong players and not having your tiers make sense is the problem and all that is a product of having poor people in jobs because nobody wanted to work with our jack--- owner. 

 

Hopefully they get the right guys in there now. There is way too much valuable draft capital to be depending upon old, stupid blood this draft. I hope and pray Peters has cross checkers going over the work of our scouts, because I don't trust the idiots we had in place before this guy came in. That's my problem anyway, and it also must be underlined, as it gets later in the draft this ---- gets harder and harder to do so even the good ones are gonna screw up more than they get it right. What was unconscionable was how thoroughly and consistently we would screw up the early picks. We actually, all in all, have probably done better than average on day 3 over the years, its really been day 1 and day 2 where we consistently get the least value and the mosts busts, or disappointing players. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

This is where I am at. But if the decision makers decide Daniels is the guy I would be completely fine with that as well. 

I won't, because I predicted Maye and I'll be wrong.  Therefore I will throw a tantrum.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Nah, its having an idiot owner, idiot Gm, and idiot coaches and scouts, pretty consistently. How much talent can you hire, and legit keep in DC, during the Snyder era? Honestly. Trading down is not a problem, drafting the wrong players and not having your tiers make sense is the problem and all that is a product of having poor people in jobs because nobody wanted to work with our jack--- owner. 

 

Hopefully they get the right guys in there now. There is way too much valuable draft capital to be depending upon old, stupid blood this draft. I hope and pray Peters has cross checkers going over the work of our scouts, because I don't trust the idiots we had in place before this guy came in. That's my problem anyway, and it also must be underlined, as it gets later in the draft this ---- gets harder and harder to do so even the good ones are gonna screw up more than they get it right. What was unconscionable was how thoroughly and consistently we would screw up the early picks. We actually, all in all, have probably done better than average on day 3 over the years, its really been day 1 and day 2 where we consistently get the least value and the mosts busts, or disappointing players. 

 

We debated this same thing before recently.  You have a right to take your take.  It's cool.   Boring to go back to the same debate but I'll do it again.  

 

My point wasn't trading down is a problem.  My point is we've lost most of those trades for eons.  I get your point that its because our FO sucked.  Agree that's part of it.  But I find it painfully ironic that other teams have killed it with the picks they got from us.  killed it.   With these players being pro-bowlers-All Pros even hall of famers.  And this team failing to find marquee players like that even though we had them right in our lap. 

 

John Schneider who is one of the better GMs in the league wanted Lockett.  He called this team, gave us an extra pick to get him.  Lockett has been a first team All Pro.  How about that?  We had one All Pro Player in the last 20 years or so aside from our punter.  And Seattle finds one in the third round sitting right at our pick.   Will McClay one of the better personnel guys i'd presume was the one who drove the idea of wanting Demarcus Lawrence.  So we traded with Dallas to give them their guy.  We got Trent Murphy and Spencer Long -- awesome.  Dallas got a 4 time pro bowler and All Pro Player.  In our division, we did this.  

 

Yes we passed over JJ Watt.  Legend.  Hall of Famer.  But heck we at least didn't strike out with Kerrigan and got Jarvis Jenkins too, cool, in that trade down. 

 

Even the 2022 trade down which looked like yeah we finally nailed one.  Chris Olave looks like the dude we were hoping Dotson would be -- Terry Part 2.  We passed over Hamilton who is an All Pro and one of the best players in the league.  Robinson is a good player.  Howell might be trending to be a backup.  Cole Turner looks like a bust.  So it doesn't feel like we won that one either.  But will see.

 

Look in real time trading down is a ton of fun.  When Shanny kepy trading down in 2011 I was giddy.  We brought so many toys home in that draft and it looked good for about half of a season until it became clear we just loaded up on a bunch of guys.  Heck even when Vinny did it so we can get M. Kelly, D. Thomas and Fred Davis felt exciting.  But that draft also ended up bad.

 

I don't disagree that trading down could work.  But I don't think its this no brainer move that some do.  I get the analytics are in favor of it.  But context matters.  The anayltics also agree that the higher you pick the greater chances for success of that player.  And is there a team lacking star power and elite players in the NFL more than this team in the last 20 years or so?  When I watch or read any top 100 player survey, I often don't even bother with it because i know its not what this team does.  We don't go great players.   We don't do the top player type of thing.  We do good players.  So count me as yawn to add two good players versus a great player as to THIS team.  Maybe another team that would be OK. 

 

 

Edited February 9 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

So hypothetically if they were willing to, would you go to #1 for Williams or not ?

The question wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer:

 

It entirely depends on the price AND the grade on Maye/Daniels/others.  In combination.  

 

If they believe Caleb Williams is going to be Andrew Luck or Joe Burrow, and Maye/Daniels is not, then you HAVE to explore it.  

 

However, there also comes a point where the cost doesn't become palatable.

 

I keep bringing up the trade the Chargers made to go up one spot from #2 to #2 in 1998 to get Ryan Leaf.  Forget what Leaf turned out to be.  But they gave up a 1998 second, a 1999 first + Eric Metcalf and a LB.  Metcalf could probably approximate a mid to late round grade, and the LB probably a late round grade.  For one spot.  In 1998.

 

I don't think the trade to get to #1 will be cheaper than that. So you're looking at a 2024 2nd, maybe the Bear's pick, a 2025 1st, and probably 2 other mid to late round picks at minimum.

 

Would I make that trade for Andrew Luck or Joe Burrow?  Yes.  

 

Would I give up much more than that?  I don't know.  Would I give up a 2026 first? Probably not.

 

The reason is, if you do swing and miss, you're going to need a first round pick in a couple years to take another shot at it.  

 

I personally don't have a "yes" or "no" answer.  I think it really depends on the grades of Williams, Maye and Daniels + the cost.  

[BleedBNG]

I think this is going to go the way Kiper and his minions predict. Chicago will trade Fields to Atlanta or somewhere and pick Williams. Then we pick Daniels and the Pats pick Maye. As long as Daniels learns how to slide we'll be good.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Boring to go back to the same debate but I'll do it again.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, BleedBNG said:

I think this is going to go the way Kiper and his minions predict. Chicago will trade Fields to Atlanta or somewhere and pick Williams. Then we pick Daniels and the Pats pick Maye. As long as Daniels learns how to slide we'll be good.

 

Daniels also need to learn how to throw off platform versus run so much whenever he's flushed out of the pocket.  Also learn how to throw with anticipation and in tight windows.

 

More mocks have us taking Maye as opposed to Daniels.  Will see.  I prefer Maye but wouldn't hate it if its Daniels.  Will see.

Notes and observations from a critical Senior Bowl week for the Commanders

 

By Sam Fortier

 

Defenders offered insight on Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels. Washington seems likely to use its top pick on a quarterback, probably North Carolina’s Maye or LSU’s Daniels, who won the Heisman Trophy in December.

The Washington Post spoke to a dozen defenders who had faced Maye and Daniels. Each said his team had game-planned to keep Daniels in the pocket and force him to win with his arm, and most said they were impressed by Maye’s awareness.

 

“His pocket presence is ridiculous,” Duke defensive tackle DeWayne Carter said of Maye. “Sometimes, I’m chasing him backside, and he feels me, and he starts to run. I think there’s even a picture, like, I’m fully laid out, and he got away [by] this much.”

 

Washington’s Michael Penix Jr. and Oregon’s Bo Nix, who both are at the Senior Bowl, seem to be vying to be the fourth quarterback on draft boards and appear to be on the fringes of the first round. Southern California’s Caleb Williams is widely projected to be the first quarterback taken.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/02/02/commanders-scout-senior-bowl/

[HTTRDynasty]

🤦‍♂️

 

 

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

🤦‍♂️

 

I was expecting much worse. lol

That was not that bad.

[The Consigliere]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We debated this same thing before recently.  You have a right to take your take.  It's cool.   Boring to go back to the same debate but I'll do it again.  

 

My point wasn't trading down is a problem.  My point is we've lost most of those trades for eons.  I get your point that its because our FO sucked.  Agree that's part of it.  But I find it painfully ironic that other teams have killed it with the picks they got from us.  killed it.   With these players being pro-bowlers-All Pros even hall of famers.  And this team failing to find marquee players like that even though we had them right in our lap. 

 

John Schneider who is one of the better GMs in the league wanted Lockett.  He called this team, gave us an extra pick to get him.  Lockett has been a first team All Pro.  How about that?  We had one All Pro Player in the last 20 years or so aside from our punter.  And Seattle finds one in the third round sitting right at our pick.   Will McClay one of the better personnel guys i'd presume was the one who drove the idea of wanting Demarcus Lawrence.  So we traded with Dallas to give them their guy.  We got Trent Murphy and Spencer Long -- awesome.  Dallas got a 4 time pro bowler and All Pro Player.  In our division, we did this.  

 

Yes we passed over JJ Watt.  Legend.  Hall of Famer.  But heck we at least didn't strike out with Kerrigan and got Jarvis Jenkins too, cool, in that trade down. 

 

Even the 2022 trade down which looked like yeah we finally nailed one.  Chris Olave looks like the dude we were hoping Dotson would be -- Terry Part 2.  We passed over Hamilton who is an All Pro and one of the best players in the league.  Robinson is a good player.  Howell might be trending to be a backup.  Cole Turner looks like a bust.  So it doesn't feel like we won that one either.  But will see.

 

Look in real time trading down is a ton of fun.  When Shanny kepy trading down in 2011 I was giddy.  We brought so many toys home in that draft and it looked good for about half of a season until it became clear we just loaded up on a bunch of guys.  Heck even when Vinny did it so we can get M. Kelly, D. Thomas and Fred Davis felt exciting.  But that draft also ended up bad.

 

I don't disagree that trading down could work.  But I don't think its this no brainer move that some do.  I get the analytics are in favor of it.  But context matters.  The anayltics also agree that the higher you pick the greater chances for success of that player.  And is there a team lacking star power and elite players in the NFL more than this team in the last 20 years or so?  When I watch or read any top 100 player survey, I often don't even bother with it because i know its not what this team does.  We don't go great players.   We don't do the top player type of thing.  We do good players.  So count me as yawn to add two good players versus a great player as to THIS team.  Maybe another team that would be OK. 

 

 

I'm so old I can't remember when I'm retreading an old argument. I would simply argue on this that generally speaking, historically, more bullets are always better than trusting that your magic GM will get that selection right because the GM is special or whatever. For me the argument above is anecdotal evidence, and it doesn't really matter to me. Its irritating, but it's chairs and titanic to me, the org was so bad back then that it really didn't matter one way or the other, and honestly, if we had Olave, and this is lazy, post facto, post ex facto (lol what is it called?) reasoning I admit, but I'm glad we didn't get Olave because if we did we might have been just a little bit too good to land the 2nd pick in this draft anyway, and who knows, maybe he moves the needle enough for Ron to still be here. Lazy stupid argument I know, but honestly, I just think those misses going forward matter a lot more if they happen, than they do in the past. That world of the Shanny build ended a decade ago, and the Ron era is donezo, I think the studies are in and generally trading down is usually better, but I will concede that you better know what your doing in terms of tiers and players within tiers when you do those trade downs. I think its pretty clear we haven't because Snyder ran a craptacular front office. Hopefully Peters is special and he brings in a special collection of talent like Shanny did. 

 

I will say this though, at the end here, I think Peters is plenty inclined to target elite players sometimes too. Even in Patriot days, the Patriots tried to trade up at times if they loved a guy. Niners definitely did too. I think he'll be flexible. I would like to trade down with one of our day 2 picks this year, I have zero interest in trading our first down this year, and probably not next either (I expect our pick to be top 5-8 next year). So I think you'll be happy.  I just would say don't worry about the past, those were several GM's ago, mostly, and a poisonous horror show owner ago, we'll change up going forward. Plenty of stuff we'll hate I'm sure. I know I didn't LOVE Niner drafts during his tenure there, I thought they were "okay" to "good", but I'll take that over the grand mal stupidity of the team the past half decade in rounds 1 and 2 and 3. 

[seantaylor=god]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

I think the only area I'd quibble with is the ceiling angle. I think both Daniels and Maye can have ridiculous ceilings. If Daniels proves to be an elite tight windows thrower in the NFL (Im moderately skeptical of that to flat out skeptical) and he can stay healthy, his ceiling is through the roof. Maye's ceiling if he can clean up mechanics/footwork etc, and max out his tools/traits is also through the roof. So I think in terms of ceiling, both have exceptionally high ceilings, my problem with Daniels is that:

#1 I think Maye's chance of reaching his ceiling or close to it is about 35-55%, while I think Daniels chance of hitting and sustaining that ceiling (apply that sustaining to both QB's) is significantly lower, I'd probably put it at 20-35%

 

#2 I think Maye's floor is basically an average starting QB because of his tools and the perception of mental make up. The floor simply isn't that low. The floor with Daniels to me is much lower, it's flat out bust, or injured and out of the league. 

 

So in some ways, funnily enough, that would almost make Daniels more worthwhile to me because at least if he misses, it's straight up obvious, and you can go back to the QB Board in '26 while tanking, while if you half miss with Maye, and he's closer to the floor than the ceiling, you almost certainly just have a QB producing seasons of #'s similar to Carr or Good Dalton, what I mean by that being, solid, competent QB play, in which case you're screwed and can't go to drawing board because a mediocre Maye scenario still can turn you into a 7-10 win team on the regular.

 

That's really my only concern with Maye. That we end up with a Derek Carr type production QB, good enough to not replace, not good enough to matter. At least with Daniels, this ---- either works, or it blows up in your face. With Maye, I definitely think he's either gonna be a grandslam/home run pick, or a single, he's not gonna be a strike out. 

 

But, when I watch, read about, and think about Maye, what I perceive as most likely is a QB somewhere between 4th and 12th in the league by '26, and that's the best we've had since Cousins and peak Rypien and Theismann with the chance to even better, so that's what I'd be going for. 

This is a really interesting point, and one I hadn’t considered.

 

However, I think we wont be screwed regardless of outcome- and here’s why:

 

Assuming DQ can build an above average to elite defense (fair assumption) and that our FO drafts and signs quality players, I don’t think we ever bottom out again. Even with a bust at QB. Hell, who’s to say if Daniels (or Maye) busts horrifically GMAP doesn’t have a solid backup option or vet that gives quality starts?

 

So I don’t see this as if Maye busts we are in QB purgatory and if Daniels busts we have an exit ramp via high draft pick. 
 

I don’t think we draft in the top 10 again for a long time, and I think the roster will be so good that we will be a borderline playoff team with average QB  play and a top team in the NFC with above average to Elite QB play.

 

And in your example, a Maye (playing at Derek Carr level) makes us a playoff team and threat to wins games in the playoffs in 2025.

[Est.1974]

42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

However, there also comes a point where the cost doesn't become palatable.

I think from #2 to #1 we aren’t sure on this, never been done before I don’t think.

 

However, the fanbase in general seems obsessed on the draft cost. Yet, Harris, Peters, Quinn are talking about building a legacy to look back on in 20 years,

 

I don’t know how we go, but losing sleep over a 2025 first might not matter in 5 years…..if you hit pay dirt….

 

But we really don’t know, do we……. 
 

Is Williams more elite than Maye, or Daniels,  ? No idea how that goes.

 

I’d go **** or bust personally.

[clskinsfan]

36 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

🤦‍♂️

 

 

Meh. Everyone knows we are taking a QB. Doug didnt say anything we dont already know.