The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CommanderInTheRye]

Part one of my notes from the recent Kevin Sheehan podcast with Chris Cooley on Drake Maye (I got tired and will do the rest later)...

 

Note: anything inside quotation marks is as close to Cooley's exact wording as I could get it:

 

Pt. 1-- Cooley On Drake Maye

 

A. Opening overview...

 

"I thought I would love Drake Maye and I do like Drake Maye a lot, and there's probably more intangibles and high level upside with Maye than anybody else in the draft, but there's also more downside with Maye than anybody else in the draft."

 

B. 2022 season at NC...

--had ton of talent around him

--had excellent season

--made big plays

 

C. 2023 season...

 

--not same team

--oline worse 

-recievers worse

 

**similar to the Josh Allen effect at Wyoming. In that Allen's last year team was worse and his play was worse than year before**

 

 

D. Positives for Maye...

 

--Of the 4 qbs he has best arm talent

--Can change arm angles

--Makes tempo throws

 

**"When he's in rhythm and good he's as good as anybody in the draft-- he's awesome-- it's Mahomes-ish"**

 

-He can make all throws 

-Ton of arm strength

-Drives ball 50 yards easily,even when not set

-Has wow effect when you watch him at times

-Great mobility

-Makes off platform throws like a shortstop

-Big and athletic, extends plays

 

**Ton of potential**

 

-Has quick release, can get rid of ball quick.

 

**"If you were just to put together a hilight roll of Drake Maye it's amazing."

 

(You'd think he's a superstar. That's why he seems so good on youtube cutups. Misleading--Doesn't tell the real story.)

 

"The problem is you can also put together a much worse lowlight film of him."

 

(That's what you don't see on those youtube cutups)**

 

E. Negatives for Maye...

 

--Terribly inconsistent.

 

"You can't make a bad decision a worse decision."

 

--He routinely turns bad plays into worse plays. He does it over and over again.

--Throws passes so bad it's bizarre. 

Scratching your head thinking-- What is he doing?

 

"I think he WANTS to see guys open. If he doesn't see guys open he's immediately off script"

 

--(plays hero ball)

--starts running out of the pocket when he doesn't need to

--Panics and throws balls up for grabs.

--Throws too many interceptions

--Had loads of potential picks that luckily weren't picks-- (those balls will be picked off in the pros.)

 

"He's an interception machine."

 

(Will have ton of picks in nfl)

 

--Poor processor. Very average.

--Sometimes is able to overcome his slow processing and recognition with release and ability to get ball out.

(Won't work in pros)

 

--Doesn't really understand what is happening with coverages.

--He would benefit from another year in college system.

 

(Just not ready)

 

--It will take enormous patience for an NFL team to take the time to make him better.

--Must dummy down the offense and start him off slow.

 

(Allow him to make plays with arm and athletics, not processing ability, until he catches up )

 

--He will have a ton of bad misses that are unexpected and defy logic.

--Terrible in the pocket. Gets jumpy.

 

(Skittish. Looks to get out and run too quickly, lacks composure, not calm.) 

 

--------Always bouncing up and down, wasted movement.

 

**"He's consistently inaccurate. Throws balls at the feet, over heads, behind players, at their hip, random consistent inaccuracy."**

 

Baffling inaccuracy. He's (randomly) inaccurate everywhere (inside, outside, short, medium, long) he throws the ball. Then the very next play he'll throw a perfect laser.**

 

--Ultimately this comes from his poor footwork, never being set, never being ready to throw.

-- He wants to move out of pocket  under pressure, instead of resetting, planting, and quickly finding the open reciever.

 

"My problem with Maye is not his talent. He has an incredible upside and I would love to see it because it would be a lot of fun in the NFL. But it's the ultimate negatives that scare me off, the bad balls, bad decisions, misreads, poor reads, and bad footwork throughout."

 

After Daniels and Caleb, Cooley said that he'd be interested in Maye.

 

Thinks it will be a real close decision between Maye and McCarthy for that third spot, as to which one goes 3 or 4.

 

--McCarthy's negatives are unknown because of the way the team played,

 

---Mayes negatives are evident and obvious.

--He's clearly behind the top two qbs.

--Not a close decision 

 

"With Maye he's just not there right now."

 

Needs a lot of good serious basic coaching before he will be ready."

 

--Talent through the roof if he hits,

--no idea if he will or how long it will take.

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by CommanderInTheRye

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Only problem was the same person who said it can be Quinn, don't count on Ben Johnson as a lock was Keim.  I posted that at the time it wasn't well received.   Just like he doesn't think it will be Maye isn't well received either.  It is what it is.

 

But will see leaks-rumors can shift especially a day or two before the draft.

 

Yes, he did leave the back door open, He also is saying he and everybody in the media, coaches.... are just a guess too as in the pick. No need to defend him all the time either he is not saying go buy Jerseys, that somebody does not want to play here. He knows this new front office is different from the past.  Do not fall for the hype. The back door is open they will decide and till they do.... 

[NoVaSkins21]

12 years after they were in the exact same position and I'd like for them to stay away from another drama queen QB.  Peters and Quinn should go with the safe pick and take Maye at #2

Edited April 23 by NoVaSkins21

[Voice_of_Reason]

23 minutes ago, sinews said:

Someone who follows the rest of the league more than  I: do the Raiders even have the ammo to trade up to 3 if Daniels were sitting there? I don't know what their draft picks look like off hand. 

 

Ammo? Yes.  

 

A willing trade partner?  Probably not.  The problem is the Patriots would have to be willing to go down all the way to 12 (I think that's where the Raiders pick) and they lose out on the top 4 QBs, unless they can engineer a trade back up to 5 to take whichever is the 4th QB remaining.  

 

The problem with that is if the Giants wanted to move up one spot from 6 to 5, they have a better shot of convincing the Chargers to do that.  Chargers still get whoever they would have gotten at 5 at 6 (because they're not taking a QB) and they get something extra.

 

And the Vikings can offer 2 first round picks this year to get to #5.  

 

Could the Raiders offer a package of picks this year and net year which would be of great value?  Absolutely.  But the Patriots would have to just punt on a QB in that case, or take Penix or Nix later.

 

The Vikings moving up to 5 is the most likely option because they can offer the Chargers 2 firsts this year + other stuff to do it.  

 

I personally don't see anybody moving up into the top 3 with the possible exception of the Giants.  If they REALLY wanted to, they could get to #3, assuming the Patriots liked whoever was remaining, let's say Maye and McCarthy about the same.  Then the Pats could go back 2 spots, assume Cards take Harrison, and have QB4 at the #6 pick.  Though they MIGHT have to trade up from 6 to 5 to block the Vikings.  But that might be possible.  I see this as extraordinarily unlikely.  But I think the Giants are the only team with a hope and a prayer of getting to #3.  

[Idaho fan]

4 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

12 years after they were in the exact same position and I'd like for them to stay away from another drama queen QB.  Peters and Quinn should go with the safe pick and take Maye at #2

What makes you think Daniels is a drama queen?  Curious.

[SkinsFTW]

40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

So he's basically saying the coaches are forcing Daniels? Is that it? He doesn't say much and the audio cuts out like a third of it.

 

Won't it be so Redskins though?

 

Team hires a guy who is perceived to be the best up and coming GM in the NFL. He then proceeds to bow down to pressure from a defensive HC who has no experience at all in developing QBs, and Kliff Kingsbury, who likely will be out the door in 2 years max.

 

I really don't want to believe it, but I choose to only because it fits. This team hasn't drafted a good QB in the first round in almost 90 years.

[Kalu44]

That was a good Cooley read on Maye. It might be for the best if he is not drafted, and why? Because this fan base is real hard on QB (deservedly so) and i think if Maye started right away and was not good, the fanbase might explode into negativity. 

[SkinsFTW]

17 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

E. Negatives for Maye...

 

--Terribly inconsistent.

 

"You can't make a bad decision a worse decision."

 

--He routinely turns bad plays into worse plays. He does it over and over again.

--Throws passes so bad it's bizarre. 

Scratching your head thinking-- What is he doing?

"I think he WANTS to see guys open. If he doesn't see guys open he's immediately off script"

--(plays hero ball)

--starts running out of the pocket when he doesn't need to

--Panics and throws balls up for grabs.

--Throws too many interceptions

--Had loads of potential picks that luckily weren't picks-- (those balls will be picked off in the pros.)

"He's an interception machine." (Will have ton of picks in nfl)

--Poor processor. Very average.

Sometimes is able to overcome his slow processing and recognition with release and ability to get ball out. (Won't work in pros)

--Doesn't really understand what is happening with coverages.

--He would benefit from another year in college system. (Just not ready)

--It will take enormous patience for an NFL team to take the time to make him better.

Must dummy down the offense and start him off slow.

(Allow him to make plays with arm athletics not processing ability until he catches up )

--He will have a ton of bad misses that are unexpected and defy logic.

Terrible in the pocket. Gets jumpy. (Skittish. Looks to get out and run too quickly, lacks composure, not calm.) ----------Always bouncing up and down, wasted movement.

 

**"He's consistently inaccurate. Throws balls at the feet, over heads, behind players, at their hip, random consistent inaccuracy."

 

Baffling inaccuracy. He's inaccurate everywhere he throws the ball. Then the very next play he'll throw a perfect laser.**

 

 

This is pretty hilarious considering he threw for 65% completions and his receivers led CFB in drops. He wasn't 50/50 like Josh Allen who for some unknown reason Cooley actually liked.

Edited April 23 by SkinsFTW

[jg77]

2 minutes ago, Kalu44 said:

That was a good Cooley read on Maye. It might be for the best if he is not drafted, and why? Because this fan base is real hard on QB (deservedly so) and i think if Maye started right away and was not good, the fanbase might explode into negativity. 

 

It would be a disservice to Maye to start him right away. He obviously needs a ton of work. 

[lovemaskins]

38 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Really enjoy the back and forth on this forum. No doubt in my mind Washington has the most intelligent fanbase in the country by a country mile. 

Dude, I sense your sarcasm, it’s why I stopped posting weeks ago.  This place has turned into nonsense, just arguing the same tired points over and over.  I’m waiting to re-engage in a couple of weeks after the draft weekend meltdown and folks put down the pitchforks down…

[SkinsFTW]

3 minutes ago, jg77 said:

 

It would be a disservice to Maye to start him right away. He obviously needs a ton of work. 

 

If they draft Daniels I don't want to hear you complaining about the OL either then.

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Not this member. Caleb would be the pick for me all day and every day over Maye and I'm not trying to crap all over Maye because their is legitimately a lot to be excited about with him RE his physical traits, which IMO were never in doubt.  

Me either and there would be 100% posts out there in Caleb's favor, kind of like the media and outside of the team fans being for J.D.

[Warhead36]

Maye is a true blue home run swing. When you're picking 2nd, you take that swing everytime. Its just that simple.

 

And he doesn't need anywhere near as much work as you think. But if you wanna sit him for 7 or 8 games, fine. Just means he's gonna come in mid season anyway when Mariota inevitably leads us to like a 2-5 start.

[srtman04]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

No…you install the offense that is the best fit for the best prospect you grade out “period”. You don’t make a pick based on an OC or his system at all, across the entire league there’s ONE Offensive Coordinator who’s been in place for more than two years. One.  

 

Offensive coordinators may change, but successful teams keep the general system the SAME.    So no matter who you plug in there for OC,  the core system is still intact and it may be just subtle verbiage changes, and that's it.   Teams get into trouble when they change to a completely different system that's not a fit for their QB.   

[jg77]

Just now, SkinsFTW said:

 

If they draft Daniels I don't want to hear you complaining about the OL either then.

 

I won't be complaining about anyone they draft. I root for the name on the front of the jersey.

[SkinsFTW]

2 minutes ago, jg77 said:

 

I won't be complaining about anyone they draft. I root for the name on the front of the jersey.

 

No, I'm saying that when Daniels doesn't scramble to pass, getting sacked 4+ times a game, don't act like it's the O lines fault that he's not ready for the NFL, which is quite obvious.

Edited April 23 by SkinsFTW

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

We're biased towards the QB who projects to be better in the pros based on traits and metrics. There's no conspiracy.

 

If we were picking 3rd and Maye was off the board then fine take a shot at Daniels.

 

You project him to be better. You. Thats the key thing here. Nothing you argue is settled fact and that is easily checked by the fact that if it was, there would be no argument. 

 

You are going to have to accept the fact that you dont actually KNOW whats going to happen. No one does. And people disagree with you and the way you use your metrics. Seriously its not that hard to understand unless you are so full of yourself that you think you cannot be wrong. And I know there is no way you can think that. If we draft him, deal with the fact that the person in charge disagrees with you. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, seantaylor=god said:

My only hope is that Maye doesn’t go to the Vikings. 
 

I think if he goes to New England or Giants he busts due to coach turnover. Both coaches will get fired in the next 2 years, if not before.

I don't want Maye anywhere near the Giants. That would be a collosal nightmare. 

[SkinsFTW]

Which ever QB they draft, I hope the other one goes to the Giants. It'll be much more interesting than to watch Daniels or Maye ruined by that weak ass Patriots coaching staff.

[CommanderInTheRye]

6 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Dude, I sense your sarcasm, it’s why I stopped posting weeks ago.  This place has turned into nonsense, just arguing the same tired points over and over.  I’m waiting to re-engage in a couple of weeks after the draft weekend meltdown and folks put down the pitchforks down…

 

 

You may well be both the smartest and most disciplined man on this forum. I envy you.

 

Personally, I lack the discipline to stay away so long.

 

I need my daily Extremeskins fix, or I get the shakes. lol

[SkinsFTW]

5 minutes ago, jg77 said:

 

I won't be complaining about anyone they draft. I root for the name on the front of the jersey.

 

Hopefully you can handle rooting for the guy with bad footwork then lol.

[skinzplay]

53 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah.  Kingsbury is the quintessential mercenary too, with a talent for latching on to bigger talents and failing upward.  I would make zero long term plans for anything concerning him.  I also wouldn't spend the second overall pick in the draft with a one year vision.

 

Couldn't possibly agree with you more. Before the Kingsbury hire, I mentioned multiple times here that the offensive success in Houston, and development of Stroud) was more Lazor than Slowik, but the media (prodded by Slowik's reps and a lack of understanding about what was going on behind the scenes) kept pumping Slowik. In the HC interviews, it showed.....a lot. For us, teaming Kingsbury with Lynn and Johnson was a similarly brilliant move. Peters advised Ryans to pair Lazor with Slowik.

[redskinss]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think so too.

 

But watching all of Daniels throws and runs.  I don't see what others don't see about him. Though to each their own.

 

The dude IMO will be awesome if he stays healthy.  

 

Agree though none of us are film experts of course.  For me I've been great and sucked at judging some QBs.  The thing I've done the best in my amateur takes on QBs over the years which I've gotten right more than wrong is scoping out QBs with bad decision making and limited accuracy.

 

Both Daniels and Maye meet my eye test on that front and meet it with flying colors as i detailed a weekend plus ago.  But will see. 

 

My bet is those two will be top 10 QBs.  Will see.

 

 

Agree wholeheartedly, I'm no expert and I'm giving my fans perspective.

 

They do both pass the eye test for me as well but maye gets a better grade.

 

I'm also trying to focus more from the waist up, I love daniels ability to run, it's a huge weapon and it will come in very valuable at the next level as it has for so many dual threat quarterbacks but it alone is worth only about 5 years tops to a 24 year old quarterback because just like running backs they hit a wall at 28 or so and their ability to win from the waist up determines if they can succeed in the NFL any longer.

 

We saw with rg3 that his arm hype was overblown, and after just one year he was relegated to relief status and then flushed out of the league. 

 

I think they both work hard, there seems to be every indication of that so I'm not worried about that with either of them, but when I watch mayes tape using the eye test I'm seeing a guy with loads of God given natural ability, he does things you can't teach and all the work in the world won't give you that ability you either have it or you don't, and maye has it, will he waste that talent? Nobody knows lots of people have over the years for various reasons but there's no indication he won't continue to work hard and blossom. 

 

When I watch daniels tape (waist up) I see a guy who has worked his ass off and mastered all the things you can teach, his ball placement and accuracy are excellent he reads the field pretty well and finds open receivers, his mechanics and footwork are clean and professional but I don't see much that wows me, he had a few good back shoulder throws into the endzone that were wow throws but for the most part he was just able to execute the offense efficiently and hit a lot of receivers streaking wide open.

 

My summary is that I agree with you, I don't see a surefire bust with daniels he does a lot of things very well and combined with his speed he could be very dangerous in the nfl but with maye I see the potential to be a true top 5 superstar if he continues to grow.

 

If daniels is the pick on Thursday I'll let out a short sigh and immediately start getting excited for the future, it's not my style to be pre-pessimistic hell I was the last one on the Rivera bandwagon not jumping off until chicago.  🤣🤣🤣

 

If maye is the pick you guys might be able to hear me scream from massachusetts 😁

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Let me be clear: if we draft Daniels I will be cheering my butt off for him and would HAPPILY eat a feast of crow if I'm wrong. Heck I'll be the first person in line to buy his jersey if he lights up the Cowboys like RG3 did on Thanksgiving.

 

I'd root for Putin if he were my team's QB.

Edited April 23 by Warhead36

[Bifflog]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I'd root for Bin Laden if he were my team's QB.

 

Alright this got me, well done.