The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[The Consigliere]

57 minutes ago, MartinC said:

It would shock the hell out of me. 
 

It’s going to come down to Daniel’s versus Maye. I suspect it’s a very close evaluation - maybe Daniel’s is ahead by a nose based on the smoke. They both have in person visits - how those go will be huge and could tip this one way or another.

 

Also for those already calling a decision to draft Daniel’s over Maye a ‘disaster’ - can we let whoever we draft take a couple of snaps before we start talking about ‘disasters’?

 

 

NO. Not really. This isn't a situation where I liked a bunch of guys like '18, or '04 or '99 or '83 or whatever. I actually like Penix, long term, just purely football wise, more than Daniels. Daniels scares the hell out of me. A Daniels selection would completely torpedo my faith in the FO, it would, in my view, suggest they're idiots, at least when it comes to QB eval, and again, not because I think I'm great, but rather because Daniels's warts are far more connected to future failure than the more nebulous faults associated with Maye. I'd view such a selection as mind numbingly foolish. A self-own of all self-owns. 

 

Doesn't mean I'm right, could be that Daniels beats the odds and Maye doesn't, and if I'm wrong on the prospects I'll own it. I was wrong on tua, I was wrong on Baker, Darnold and Rosen to various extents and Allen, I'm wrong plenty on who will be good. But on who has the warning signs? Virtually every QB that scared the ---- out of me the past 20 years busted other than Josh Allen, virtually all of them. Daniels scares me. Maye doesn't. 

 

I'm not gonna spend six months crapping on the guy, I'll probably passively observe after a few weeks, and hope to god I'm wrong, I sure as hell could be about Maye, but with Daniels, I just don't know, and its not even Im 100 or even 75% sure he'll bust. It's just between the two of them, i think of the risk of being failures at the next level that we move on from after the rookie deal (or even before) the risk with Daniels of that happening is orders of magnitude higher to me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

"Herbert lite" for Maye is an interesting take. I guess in terms of actual size, sure. I think their arm strength is comparable. But Maye is much more aggressive than Herbert was, so I think he's actually closer to Josh Allen in that regard. There was some tweet posted here not long ago that was funny: "Maye = Herbert after doing 6 lines of coke"

 

Herbert IMO with the stronger arm.  Maye's wheels a bit better.   Both college QBs whose accuracy was questioned.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Listening to Sheehan and just...ugh the pick is gonna be Daniels. There is just way too much smoke. Every coach/exec they're talking to says its gonna be Daniels. Schefter, Standig, Keim etc.

 

I'm gonna go back and watch more Daniels stuff to try to get my excitement level back up but its just tough. I just don't see it with him. He was essentially playing on easy mode last year.

 

Obviously all these scouts/coaches/execs are all smarter than us...or are they? We've seen too many make the same mistake too often and its happening again and its such a colossal disappointment that our supposed star new GM is also falling into that trap.

They are not. Full stop. They just have more information, but critical thinking skills? Nope. 

[Warhead36]

"We all got it wrong with Herbert. And we think Maye is just like Herbert. But we think Maye will suck."

 

It just...makes no sense.

 

How do these people have jobs?

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

They are not. Full stop. They just have more information, but critical thinking skills? Nope. 

That's the big issue. They lack critical thinking. Lots of these "experts" are boomer types. They see Heisman trophy winner throwing bombs but don't take into account any of the advanced metrics or historical trends. They don't know how to evaluate based on projecting, just in the here and now.

 

And its disappointing our new regime which is supposed to be sharp and ahead of the curve appear to be cut from the same cloth.

[RandyHolt]

38 minutes ago, mistertim said:

RG3's endorsement should basically be a hint that we should draft Maye.   

No joke. RG3 is likely always going to tout anyone that remotely looked like him in college. AP - take Maye lol. 

[FootballZombie]

23 minutes ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Don’t get why there seems to be a load of fuss on socials etc, what a great problem to have Maye, Daniels or even JJ, it’s an awesome position to be in, no Snyder, no Ron.

 

Simple, some guys are so entrenched in their guy that no other pathway is an option. Everything else becomes a mistake.

[skinsfan66]

9 minutes ago, BMagic said:

 

I agree. The Commanders had the chance to move on from Haskins to take Tua/Herbert and didn’t pull the trigger. Few understand the law of diminishing returns. The Bears should have gotten out of the Justin Fields business in the Stroud/Young/Richardson class, if not earlier, and are very and I mean very fortunate to be in the position to pick Caleb Williams. For Kliff to walk into a new situation and convince them to move on from the dude they just took in the very last draft still took some stones.

Not if they thought Fields and the Comp was the best deal. It worked out, they were right about Young and got the picks and players. 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

12 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Simple, some guys are so entrenched in their guy that no other pathway is an option. Everything else becomes a mistake.

It’s a shame really, one of if not the most exciting time to be a Washington fan in modern history and to think folk will be disappointed or angry when one of those names are read out!

 

Reality is they’ve all got great upside and lots to be excited about, i’m excited about Maye’s arm and big play ability, I’m excited about Daniels wheels and deep threat, I’m excited about JJ evading pressure and making plays in clutch moments. Come draft night I can’t lose and I’d urge some perspective for those who are vividly anti any of the three 

 

[mac8887]

I think if we go for someone other than Maye at #2, it’ll be for one reason. He hasn’t shown the ability to be consistently accurate on short throws to the outside.

 

The high/low concept on the outside is now a staple in every NFL offense, and is run a lot more than it used to be. QBs have to be able to hit the easy throw on time and accurately to give the reciever the time and space to make some move and get some YAC.

 

Other than a little bit of drift that causes him to create his own pressure sometimes, I really don’t see his footwork as a big issue. He doesn’t sidestep well but I think that can be fixed. I have seen him get foot in front of foot a few times with his chest facing forward while in the middle of the pocket, and that does concern me a little, but that to should be easily fixed.

 

He definitely has a cannon and throws well into tight coverage over the middle on intermediate passes.

 

The thing is, the nfl is now, more than ever, about getting the ball to their receivers in space and allowing them to create after the catch. While you do still see throws over the middle into tight windows on the second level, the nfl is now more about scheming and getting guys in space.

 

More and more you see teams using the short passing game as a substitute for the run game and then every once in a while go deep after the safeties get closer to the LOS. You really need a guy that can make the layups look easy consistently. 
 

Im not saying Maye can’t fix this issue, but to be honest, it’s really the only reason I can see us passing on him, he checks all of the other boxes.

Edited April 11 by mac8887

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

By the way, I totally predicted this Daniels thing weeks ago, because I know how the world works.

 

I don't know what QB is good or bad, but I know how stuff happens.

 

Maye is boring. If you squint really hard and rub some Holy Water on your butt, you can imagine him as Josh Allen. But you don't really believe that. What you really think that Cousins is his best case scenario. And that makes you die inside even though that's a pretty good outcome.

 

Daniels though. Daniels can reinvent football. (Maybe). He can be Mahomes if Mahomes was also a sprinter. (Possibly). He can be that one RGIII run all the time in every game on all timelines (Unlikely).

 

I still kinda want Bo Nix because of his name.

 

[wit33]

15 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

No joke. RG3 is likely always going to tout anyone that remotely looked like him in college. AP - take Maye lol. 

It would be fascinating to hear quarterbacks discuss their struggles with reading pre and post-snap situations, and why some excel at it more than others. NBA players often provide more transparency about what sets the greats apart, but there's a lack of similar openness in the QB position.

 

I'm not sure if for example JT O'Sullivan has discussed why he struggled or couldn't break through in the NFL, but delving into that aspect would require a lot of courage and vulnerability. It's possible that some quarterbacks have discussed it, but it's not widely known. This type of dialogue no laymen pompous fan can make claim to understanding.
 

I wonder if the association of elite quarterback play with mental acuity makes it challenging for quarterbacks to acknowledge that another QB might be smarter in simpler terms.

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I’m not going to stop following the team if we pick Daniels. Everyone should if we pick McCarthy though. Zero chance we actually do but there’d no reason to bother at that point.
 

If we pick Daniels, I will still follow the team, but only to post about how right I was over and over and over again in every thread as he falls apart.

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I think if we go for someone other than Maye at #2, it’ll be for one reason. He hasn’t shown the ability to be consistently accurate on short throws to the outside.

 

The high/low concept on the outside is now a staple in every NFL offense, and is run a lot more than it used to be. QBs have to be able to hit the easy throw on time and accurately to give the reciever the time and space to make some move and get some YAC.

 

Other than a little bit of drift that causes him to create his own pressure sometimes, I really don’t see his footwork as a big issue.

 

He definitely has a cannon and throws well into tight coverage over the middle on intermediate passes.

 

The thing is, the nfl is now, more than ever, about getting the ball to their receivers in space and allowing them to create after the catch. While you do still see throws over the middle into tight windows on the second level, the nfl is now more about scheming and getting guys in space.

 

More and more you see teams using the short passing game as a substitute for the run game and then every once in a while go deep after the safeties get closer to the LOS. You really need a guy that can make the layups look easy consistently. 
 

Im not saying Maye can’t fix this issue, but to be honest, it’s really the only reason I can see us passing on him, he checks all of the other boxes.

 

This would be an utterly bizarre reason to pass up on a guy who ticks pretty much every single box. "Sure, he's big, strong, has a huge arm, is very mobile, smart, calls protections, can read defenses, regularly makes NFL level tight window and anticipation throws, is a hard worker and good leader, has more big time throws than pretty much any other prospect over the last several years............but man, every so often he'll miss pretty bad on short throws in the flat. PASS!"

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’m not going to stop following the team if we pick Daniels. Everyone should if we pick McCarthy though. Zero chance we actually do but there’d no reason to bother at that point.
 

If we pick Daniels, I will still follow the team, but only to post about how right I was over and over and over again in every thread as he falls apart.

Man this is genuinely a sad way to see it, whoever it is at 2 will need the fans patience and support, not this nonsense

[jg77]

4 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’m not going to stop following the team if we pick Daniels. Everyone should if we pick McCarthy though. Zero chance we actually do but there’d no reason to bother at that point.
 

If we pick Daniels, I will still follow the team, but only to post about how right I was over and over and over again in every thread as he falls apart.

You cheer for the name on the front of the jersey...not the back.

[mac8887]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

This would be an utterly bizarre reason to pass up on a guy who ticks pretty much every single box. "Sure, he's big, strong, has a huge arm, is very mobile, smart, calls protections, can read defenses, regularly makes NFL level tight window and anticipation throws, is a hard worker and good leader, has more big time throws than pretty much any other prospect over the last several years............but man, every so often he'll miss pretty bad on short throws in the flat. PASS!"

It’s more than every so often, he has a tough time being consistently accurate with that throw, especially on a quick out. 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I am curious what the dialogue in the front office was about Penix, and find it interesting that we brought him in. 

If the pick were Daniels, ftr, I'd rather just do a trade down for Penix. I wasn't there a few months ago, but after looking at things enough the past several weeks, 2 months really, I'm not remotely sold that Daniels is a better prospect for sure, I tend to think Penix is, as a thrower, but riskier for med red flags, and even older still. They aren't doing that, but yeah, if presented with:

 

1. We can trade down for Penix

 

2. We can use 2 on Daniels

 

3. We aren't taking Maye.

 

Give me option 1. The only things that give me pause are #1 his medicals, and #2 he really does seem likely to go much higher than I expected two months and even 1 month ago. Back then I thought Penix was going somewhere between 16-45, and probably in the twenties or thirties. Now it seems likely he's going inside the top 16, probably somewhere between 8 and 12. That's way, way, way too rich if it happens, but I'd still rather have Penix+future firsts and day 2 picks, over just Daniels. I simply don't believe Daniels profile is much better than that of Penix, if at all, its just different, and I think Penix' injury red flags and age trump my worries with Daniels, but not so much more that I'd be willing to forego the giant pile of trade down assets we'd get. It's one thing to stay at 2 for a guy with a profile like Maye over a giant pile of gold for trading down, but for a guy with as many concerning red flags as Daniels, to stick at slot and forego all the goodies? I don't think I could do that.

 

Of course this doesn't matter, we're still sitting at 2 and picking, but yeah, needless to say, Im gonna be quite incensed if they take Daniels and I'm right, and even more incensed if they take Daniels, and I'm right about him, and right about Penix (or Maye). 

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

It would be fascinating to hear quarterbacks discuss their struggles with reading pre and post-snap situations, and why some excel at it more than others. NBA players often provide more transparency about what sets the greats apart, but there's a lack of similar openness in the QB position.

 

I'm not sure if for example JT O'Sullivan has discussed why he struggled or couldn't break through in the NFL, but delving into that aspect would require a lot of courage and vulnerability. It's possible that some quarterbacks have discussed it, but it's not widely known. This type of dialogue no laymen pompous fan can make claim to understanding.
 

I wonder if the association of elite quarterback play with mental acuity makes it challenging for quarterbacks to acknowledge that another QB might be smarter in simpler terms.

 

Great idea. QBs fail and we blame them and not the OC OL etc... its all the QBs fault duh.

 

For the amount time and effort put into drafting grooming and developing a QB, there is a severe lack of follow up on why expectations were not met. Not to mention, the amount of money involved in the sport. Football is this country's undisputed entertainment... for men... and pron aside perhaps.

 

I remember saying YIKES when I heard that RG3 didnt know the route tree - right after we drafted him of course. That Haskins coach changed the entire offense to cater to him. ****ing great and sure enough both failed.

 

There are many books that could be written that us football fans would pounce on.

 

Lets all play name the failed DC QB:

 

"I was just a deer in the headlights"

Spoiler

- Patrick Ramsey

"Best Preseason QB ever - Why I failed at the next level"

Spoiler

- Babe Laufenberg

"Throwing to Wide Open WRs in College can land you a Heisman"

Spoiler

- RG3

"800 Pages?"

Spoiler

- Jason Campbell

Bonus Question:

"How I got a job at State Fromm"

 

Edited April 11 by RandyHolt

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

It’s more than every so often, he has a tough time being consistently accurate with that throw, especially on a quick out. 

 

A consistency problem means it's on and off, hence "every so often"

 

Either way, that's still an utterly bizarre reason to pass on a guy who ticks pretty much every box for a franchise QB prospect, because that sort of thing is literally why coaches exist. To pass on a guy because of that one thing would mean they truly believed it was SO bad and indicative of a much larger underlying issue that it would be more or less impossible to fix.

Edited April 11 by mistertim

[Warhead36]

Maye does the hard things really well and occasionally makes things harder on himself. He will from time to time miss easy throws. Honestly that is extremely easy to fix and wouldn't take more than like one season tops. The rest of his game is so much more advanced, he's younger, better build, etc. Its just...I don't get it man.

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

A consistency problem means it's on and off, hence "every so often"

 

Either way, that's still an utterly bizarre reason to pass on a guy who ticks pretty much every box for a franchise QB prospect, because that sort of thing is literally why coaches exist. To pass on a guy because of that one thing would mean they truly believed it was SO bad and indicative of a much larger underlying issue that it would be more or less impossible to fix.

Why else would they pass on him then? I don’t see any other major issues

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

If our reason for drafting Daniels is because he fits Kingsbury's offense better then we're an even  bigger joke than I thought. You don't draft a QB to fit your OC. You draft the best QB and make the OC fit the offense around him.

 

Also, Maye has experience with the air raid. He's a better fit for KK.

Yep, this is part of what made me so frustrated with the idea that we had no idea what our board was when we hired the OC and the staff. That's fine, right, but I don't want those potential clowns dictating a pick that will be here for a decade or more longer than the coach will, if they do this right. Do not dictate the freaking #2 overall pick in the best QB class in 20 years based upon the whims of some failed OC, and failed Atlanta HC, both of whom had franchise QB's and did largley ---- all with them (in fairness to Quinn, he came within a miracle comeback of winning a super bowl), most coaches have to make do with average or worse QB's, like idiot Ron, they don't get potential future HOF's like Matt Ryan, or #1 overall studs like Kyler. These two guys lucked into those talents and shouldn't have a damn thing to do with who we pick. Our pick should be based upon the most talented long term prospect there is at our slot, period, full stop. We are not and should not be trying to fit a QB, a once a decade potential talent, square peg, round hole style into the whims of the fiftieth freaking coach/or OC we've had in 30 years. Most of us can't even name the OC's we had say in 1995 or 2001, or 2006 or 2014 or 2018 etc without looking back, but we all know who was behind center, and failing each of those miserable years. 

 

The idea that a QB prospect is trumped by a retread HC and retread OC is just so ridiculous it beggars belief, but here we are. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

Why else would they pass on him then? I don’t see any other major issues

Because Dan Quinn got lit up by a mobile/athletic QB in the playoffs and sees the same in Daniels and is saying I WANT ONE

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

It would shock the hell out of me. 
 

It’s going to come down to Daniel’s versus Maye. I suspect it’s a very close evaluation - maybe Daniel’s is ahead by a nose based on the smoke. They both have in person visits - how those go will be huge and could tip this one way or another.

 

Also for those already calling a decision to draft Daniel’s over Maye a ‘disaster’ - can we let whoever we draft take a couple of snaps before we start talking about ‘disasters’?

 

 

 

Yeah I'd be surprised too if its McCarthy.  The one thing I'll say for him is he comes off as a killer interview and is uber mature for his age so maybe his pro visit elevates him more than the other two.

 

As for the Maye-Daniels stuff, agree people should chill.   It's cool that some are that certain that they know who is the right and wrong QB in this draft -- the absolutes makes their posts entertaining.  But speaking for myself, even though I've watched more Maye and Daniels than any two prospects in my life and by a mile.  And i've read more and listened to more about them than any prospect in my many years following the draft...I still don't believe I have the definitive opinion on the subject.  So whatever they do, I'll let it play out.  I am perfectly chill to watch this all unfold. 

Edited April 11 by Skinsinparadise

[mac8887]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Because Dan Quinn got lit up by a mobile/athletic QB in the playoffs and sees the same in Daniels and is saying I WANT ONE

If the pick is Daniels then that probably has something to do with it. It does fascinate me how Maye can make these amazing throws and then miss a wide open quick out. With the way the league is being more driven by analytics I can see why this would be concerning to teams. In baseball, which is the most analytically driven league by far, consistency is king. It’s one of the reasons you never see a knuckleball anymore.