The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mac8887]

6 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Depends how you grade the QBs. If you grade JJ high then you could move up with Az or Chargers...

 

Needless to say, I’m willing to bet that there are more than a few teams that grade Daniels much higher than I do 😂

 

If we could find a way to land JJ and pick up more draft capital, id be very happy. He feels to me like if you’d take the best parts of Alex Smiths game and married it with the best parts of Kirk cousins game. He’s my favorite only behind Caleb Williams and it’s close there as well.

 

on a side note, I find it a little concerning that some are willing to write off peters if he picks Daniels and Daniels plays poorly while Maye plays well. I know we’ve got some really divided opinions on these QBs, but I think we should at least give him 3 or 4 years to decide if he is a good GM or not. 

Edited April 9 by mac8887

[Llevron]

Kinda want them to draft Drake, sit him, and tell us to Trust the Process. 

Edited April 9 by Llevron

[mistertim]

Just now, mac8887 said:

If we could find a way to land JJ and pick up more draft capital, id be very happy. He feels to me like if you’d take the best parts of Alex Smiths game and married it with the best parts of Kirk cousins game. He’s my favorite only behind Caleb Williams and it’s close there as well

 

You actually want to draft a guy with a top 5 pick who you compare to Alex Smith?   

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’ve resigned myself to Daniels over Maye. Too much smoke. I’m trying to look at the bright sides. 
 

Also, nowhere has crab cakes that compare to Maryland. 
 

Lastly, does anyone else see any parallels between Maye and Matt Stafford? Both mobile, big armed gunslingers. Maye is a little bigger and actually was significantly better in college. 

 

I am not resigned to that myself.  But I am resigned to one thing, I've heard enough to believe there is at least a fighting chance that its Daniels and that this FO doesn't agree with the people here who think choosing him is a comical joke.  Schefter, Breer, Keim are heavy weights.  And while none of them are reporting that's who they are choosing, they are all converging on Daniels as to the team's leaning.  Plenty of others have said similar things but those three are the ones I care about and take seriously.

 

I recall one time if I recall right it was Sheehan mentioned asking Schefter something about this team.  Schefter if I recall either called someone off air or text'd and got a response from someone he knows with the team in like a minute. Of course, Schefter wouldn't say who it was.  lol, maybe Bruce?

 

I'd guess for sure Schefter, Keim, etc are working primarily with outside info.  Not just agents but personnel people from other teams, etc.  Some here suggest that Schefter and Keim are a bit naive and don't know when they are being played.  Look no one is 100% right.  But good reporters who get most things right aren't naive and aren't easily played.  that's been a mantra with some reporters talking about their craft which is its their job to dicipher who they can trust and who they can't.  Keim among others have said their cheat code is knowing people who regularly have given them information and are always correct or close enough.

 

My guess is Keim, Schefter probably did talk to someone they know in the FO.  I doubt its Peters or the key decision maker.  and it was probably something light such as what you are hearing is there a leaning?  And that person said the leaning based on what they heard. So I'd guess its a combination of outside sources but with maybe some minor inside source.

 

If Keim is suggesting there is a leaning right now and saying stuff like he doesn't expect McCarthy at #2 -- I suspect that they have some small source in the FO.  I could be wrong.  Keim is very guarded as to revealing stuff like this, it tends to come out after not when its going on.  But on this part am guessing.  So will see.

Edited April 9 by Skinsinparadise

[mac8887]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You actually want to draft a guy with a top 5 pick who you compare to Alex Smith?   

I said I believe he has some of the traits Alex has, Alex’s best traits, he is accurate on on the easy passes, he throws well on the move, he is good at extending plays, and he doesn’t turn the ball over. As well as the leadership intangibles the Keim spoke about recently when talking to Paulson 

 

i also think he has some of cousins best traits, being accurate over the middle, throwing with anticipation, while also being able to push the ball downfield.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9 by mac8887

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Essentially two weeks from the draft a "leaning" is fairly significant.

 

It generally means that for minds to change  something extraordinary needs to either occur or be discovered about one candidate or the other. 

 

They've already exhaustively gone over game tape, personal history, p.i. investigations etc.

 

 

 

I do believe the idea that there is a leaning and that story has legs to it.

 

But a leaning is leaning.  A leaning can change.

 

I get those who think because this team is good at keeping their mouth shut, no way, they know anything.  But Schefter, Breer, Keim are among the most reliable people in the business.   And they aren't stupid.  So i doubt its something like Daniels agent telling them this.  It's someone (s) they trust. 

 

Digesting all the narratives my best guess is they are torn between the two QBs and will brainstorm right to draft day.

 

And look none of these guys are saying Maye won't be the pick.  If any of these guys said no way its Maye that would get my attention. 

 

But at a minimum I've heard enough to believe that this FO doesn't find the idea of taking Daniels as some comical dumb move like some on this thread, do.

 

But if you had me go to Vegas, I'd be scared to put money on either player right now.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

Are you claiming that over the past 12 months Daniels has been viewed as the second overall pick longer than Maye has? 
 

 

I'm claiming what happened until recently is completely irrelevant to what the current consensus pick is.

 

Before the 2020 season, Burrow wasn't a top pick.  If you checked in September of that year, Tua was the consensus #1 overall pick.  

 

If you checked before the 2022 draft, Howell was maybe not a consensus, but definitely a strong candidate as a top 5 pick.

 

Who cares about what happened over the last 12 months?

 

You knowi what you are like sometimes?  It's like the 1984 Orwell novel where the totalitarian regime kept repeating 2+2=5.  If you say it enough times and loud enough, people will believe it.  There was also a great Star Trek episode with this method of torture lifted, where Piccard was asked how many lights there were.  He kept saying 4 and the person was trying to convince him it was 5.  

 

No matter how many times or loud you say it, it's still just wrong, though.  Consensus over the last year or two is irrelevant.  What matters (if anything matters) about judging how risky the pick is is if it flies against conventional wisdom or consensus at the time of the draft.  That's it. 

[bh32]

30 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Not me.  I think we do it too, but it's a **** up and I'm going into this eyes open.  If we do this and Jayden is skinny Justin Fields and Drake Maye becomes Josh Allen part 2 in New England, Adam Peters's career is over.

Especially with that Trey Lance debacle on his resume..I know he wasn't GM,but he was involved the evaluation. 

[Dah-Dee]

New (long!) article with what seems like a pretty good discussion of Maye's footwork, among other things:

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2024/4/9/24111911/drake-maye-scouting-report-2024-nfl-draft-projection

NFL teams are overthinking Drake Maye in 2024 NFL Draft

Drake Maye seems to be sliding in the 2024 NFL Draft. Here is why he shouldn’t be.

 

Every year with the NFL Draft cycle, media tends to overthink certain players, especially quarterbacks. The long break between the NFL Combine and NFL Draft give us too much time to sit and fall for the play action that is NFL Draft smokescreens and overthought.

 

This year the NFL has decided to overthink North Carolina QB Drake Maye, who has been QB2 (or QB1A in my eyes) throughout most of the NFL Draft cycle, but then started to slip. With Michigan QB JJ McCarthy beginning to rise in the eyes of NFL front offices, Maye could fall to QB4 in this class.

 

Make no mistake about it, though: Maye is a special QB prospect who is arguably the best suited to start right away after USC’s Caleb Williams.

[DogofWar1]

I really hope there's a schism inside the FO and that it's exactly like Game of Thrones.  I want a feature length semi-documentary about it ala Moneyball.  Ryan Gosling as Adam Peters pls

 

"Now look, we can't get Caleb Williams.  We just can't.  But, we can recreate him in the aggregate."

__________________

"This, is Troy Franklin."
"He's short Adam."

*Peters points at Shane Toub*

"...he...catches the-"

"He catches the ball!"

Edited April 9 by DogofWar1

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

If Gosling is Peters, who’s gonna play me?

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I really hope there's a schism inside the FO and that it's exactly like Game of Thrones.  I want a feature length semi-documentary about it ala Moneyball.  Ryan Gosling as Adam Peters pls

Or maybe something like this:

 

[Warhead36]

18 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

New (long!) article with what seems like a pretty good discussion of Maye's footwork, among other things:

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2024/4/9/24111911/drake-maye-scouting-report-2024-nfl-draft-projection

NFL teams are overthinking Drake Maye in 2024 NFL Draft

Drake Maye seems to be sliding in the 2024 NFL Draft. Here is why he shouldn’t be.

 

Every year with the NFL Draft cycle, media tends to overthink certain players, especially quarterbacks. The long break between the NFL Combine and NFL Draft give us too much time to sit and fall for the play action that is NFL Draft smokescreens and overthought.

 

This year the NFL has decided to overthink North Carolina QB Drake Maye, who has been QB2 (or QB1A in my eyes) throughout most of the NFL Draft cycle, but then started to slip. With Michigan QB JJ McCarthy beginning to rise in the eyes of NFL front offices, Maye could fall to QB4 in this class.

 

Make no mistake about it, though: Maye is a special QB prospect who is arguably the best suited to start right away after USC’s Caleb Williams.

Itd be a colossal disappointment if Peters first pick is bungled this badly by passing up on Maye. 

[DogofWar1]

*Peters deep in thought*

"...We need to move Howell."

*Klingsbery starts scrolling on his laptop trackpad*

"uhh...how about the Raiders?"

"No, I don't hate the kid."

"...Broncos?"

*Peters snaps fingers and points at Kling*

"STACY, call George Paton!"

...

"Paton on 2"

"George, how're the kids, Bella and....uhh"

*snaps fingers*

*Klingsbery furiously scrolls a bit*  "Beau"

"Beau!?"

*muffled sounds*

"Yeah I'll can the pleasantries, I wanna move Howell, clean out for the new guy we're allegedly taking.  You got a mountain sized dead cap around your neck and Howell is cheap for 2 years.  You want him?"

*muffled sounds*

"Okay, I'll call you back."

*hangs up*

...

Kliff speaks up, "...Seahawks?"

"Yeah Geno's old as ****, STACY CALL JOHN SCHNEIDER!"

...

"Schneider on 2"

"John hey brass tacks I got Broncos on the other line offering a 5th to a 4th and 147 for Howell.  You want him?"

*muffled noises*

"You do? Wonderful can you beat the Broncos?"

*talking*

"78 for 102 and a 5th for our 6th?"

*snapping at Kliff*

"Hang on"

*mutes self*

"How many dudes did we say were high impact players this draft?"

"90...give or take a couple."

*unmutes self*

"Done. Thanks John."

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Dah-Dee]

29 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

If Gosling is Peters, who’s gonna play me?

 

Well duh.

 

[lovemaskins]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Not me.  I think we do it too, but it's a **** up and I'm going into this eyes open.  If we do this and Jayden is skinny Justin Fields and Drake Maye becomes Josh Allen part 2 in New England, Adam Peters's career is over.

So is it also over for Peters if Maye becomes the Next Mac Jones and Daniels is the next Lamar Jackson / Stroud. Equally possible possibility…

 

for the record I don’t care who we draft at this point.

[BMagic]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Not me.  I think we do it too, but it's a **** up and I'm going into this eyes open.  If we do this and Jayden is skinny Justin Fields and Drake Maye becomes Josh Allen part 2 in New England, Adam Peters's career is over.

I know a few Jets fans praying the Commanders take Maye so he doesn't wind up on the Patriots. I'm just hoping he doesn't end up on the Giants if he isn't drafted here. I'd be devastated if it ended up going that way.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

When I watch Drake Maye play, I see a big guy with a huge arm that can run but who has mechanical and decision-making issues.

 

When I see Jaden Daniels play, I see a quarterback whose coaches told him to look to run anytime there is pressure, and I think that the reason they told him that is because in the other four years that he played, whenever he was pressured and he took off running, more often than not the result would be good, but when he didn’t, more often than not **** went sideways.

 

there is a pretty good list of big guys with huge arms that could run but who had issues and ended up cleaning them up and becoming good NFL quarterbacks. The list of guys who can’t play under pressure unless they takeoff running that went on to become good quarterbacks is virtually nonexistent and scrawny ass Jayden Daniels isn’t going to buck that trend. He’s going to get murdered.

12 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Well duh.

 

Was Bradley Cooper the voice of Heihei and I’m just not aware?

[HTTRDynasty]

Good article.  Maye's grade isn't as low as I expected when I first read the headline and the QB coaches agree with many in this thread that his mechanics/footwork issues are largely fixable: 

 

https://theathletic.com/5390475/2024/04/09/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-mechanics-rankings-grades/

 

Which of the NFL Draft’s top QBs has the best mechanics? Experts grade each passer

To add some informed opinions about the mechanics of this year’s top quarterback prospects, I got some of the top private quarterback coaches in the country to rate and comment on how Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Jayden Daniels, J.J. McCarthy, Michael Penix Jr., Bo Nix and Spencer Rattler throw the ball. They will remain anonymous because they have worked with some of the discussed prospects in some capacity and could in the future.

 

They graded efficiency, speed, adaptability and overall mechanics on a scale of 1-5. I averaged their overall grades for a final grade. Efficiency is the ability to transfer force from their hips, speed is how quick their release is, and adaptability is how well they can adjust their mechanics to overcome external factors. The overall grade isn’t a cumulative score of the other three categories but just a grade on the quarterback’s overall mechanics that could include factors outside of the listed categories.

 

These grades are strictly for mechanics, which doesn’t correlate with an overall grade for a quarterback. Playing quarterback involves many factors other than mechanics. This article focuses on only one element of quarterback play, one often rife with conjecture.

 

• 1 – Problematic
• 2 – Will take a lot of work to fix
• 3 – Fixable
• 4 – Good
• 5 – Excellent

 

Quote

 

Caleb Williams

Efficiency: 4.8
Adaptability: 5
Speed: 4.25
Overall: 4.9

 

Williams is hailed for his off-script highlights, but his mechanics make him special. The overwhelming consensus is that Williams is a uniquely efficient thrower. One coach compared his mechanics to Aaron Rodgers’. Another said he’s one of the most efficient back-hip rotators he’s seen, which is the speed at which his hips rotate into the throw combined with his ability to quickly stabilize his front to create a great amount of force into his throw.

 

 

“Regarding NFL readiness, no prospect has a foundation for throwing and movement efficiency like Caleb,” one coach said. “Although his arm strength is the 99th percentile, he can throttle and adapt his throw at a similar level to (Patrick) Mahomes.”

 

“You’ll see guys like Caleb and Mahomes; they have crazy external rotation,” another coach said. “So what I mean by that is when they start their throw motion from the horizontal L. When they get to this vertical point and start going forward, their arm is able to go so far past 90 degrees that it allows them to change arm angles with their spine angle. If you notice, C.J. Stroud, who’s a great thrower of course, doesn’t have that same external rotation.”

 

This comment wasn’t meant to be a dig at Stroud but rather to differentiate and highlight Williams’ special ability to change his arm angles and still throw accurately. One criticism of Williams’ mechanics is that he tends to slow his arm too much when he’s trying to layer throws, which can affect ball placement, but that can be fixed.

 

Unsurprisingly, Williams’ mechanics were rated by far the highest, but don’t let that skew how the others are graded. No other quarterback finished with an overall grade above 4.0, which is more realistic for young quarterbacks entering the league.

 

Drake Maye

Efficiency: 3.6
Adaptability: 3.5
Speed: 3.3
Overall: 3.75

 

Maye’s mechanics have been the subject of much debate among analysts. There seem to be wide-ranging opinions about his release, accuracy and footwork. Maye will miss layup passes occasionally, but most of the coaches who participated in the article agree it’s mostly because of correctable footwork issues.

 

“However his accuracy diminishes as he moves through progressions, (it’s) a very fixable issue,” a coach said. “However, in a non-developmental league, it needs to be fixed immediately, and this can only be done through on-field reps.”

 

This coach’s observation is that when Maye is throwing on rhythm to his first read, he’s accurate. But as he has to move to his second and third reads, he struggles to consistently get his feet set correctly. Footwork has proved to be correctable at the next level.

 

The consensus is that Maye can overcome some inefficiencies with his mechanics because of his raw talent. One coach said it takes him some time to ease into a game and get loose. He can be stiff early in the games, which leads to sequencing problems.

 

Another issue commonly brought up by analysts is Maye’s windup. The term coaches use for the action of bringing the ball back or loading for the throw is “layback,” and most coaches agree it isn’t a problem. They say Maye’s layback is ideal for generating power and they wouldn’t mess with it. Maye doesn’t have the fastest release, but the quarterback coaches agree it’s still good.

 

“He’s just a bigger guy. Sometimes those levers just take a little bit longer. I don’t see anything glaring in terms of his release time. People may say it might be a little too slow. I would disagree. I think that it’s proficient in order to be successful,” one coach explained. “Not to compare him with Josh Allen, but I would say that Josh Allen is someone who’s not lightning-fast with their release, but you can still be very successful.”

 

Overall, Maye has to clean up his footwork when moving from read to read, and he must continue to tweak his mechanics and be more consistent from snap to snap, but wholesale changes don’t need to be made. He’s only 21 — the coaches believe there is plenty of optimism that Maye can fix the issues that affected his accuracy.

 

Jayden Daniels

Efficiency: 4
Adaptability: 3.5
Speed: 3.6
Overall: 3.8

 

“Jayden has drastically improved his style of play and efficiency as a thrower and QB,” one coach said. “He possesses elite traits as a thrower and athlete but has inefficiencies still visible in the game and on the field. For Jayden, I see his ascension as an NFL player heavily linked to offseason development, and the staff supports his training and gives grace to improve consistency.”

 

Most agree that Daniels made a lot of improvements as an efficient thrower and has strong mechanics. One coach said it’s nitpicking, but when he puts a lot of heat on the ball, he tends to get overaggressive with his arm, leading to breakdowns. Daniels is an excellent touch thrower, but he didn’t have to force a lot of bullets into tight windows because of how good his receivers were as vertical threats and the system he played in. He also had clean pockets with one of the best offensive lines in the country, and when he broke the pocket, he would look to run rather than set up for a pass. Will he be able to maintain his mechanics in tighter pockets and smaller windows?

 

Though it’s not a mechanical issue, one coach said he wants to see Daniels keep his eyes up more when he’s forced to move in the pocket.

 

“When Daniels leaves the pocket, as much stress as he can create on the defense with his legs, I would love to use that to his advantage when he is moving and being able to throw the football on the move after he escapes the pocket. Overall, his mechanics are pretty solid.”

 

J.J. McCarthy

Efficiency: 3.8
Adaptability: 4
Speed: 3.1
Overall: 3.75

 

“He seems to throw the ball at one speed: very hard,” one coach said. “Although he has a playmaking style when presented, he needs to have a little more variation in his base throws in terms of pace and velocity.”

 

McCarthy has a strong arm and throws with a lot of zip, but he doesn’t throw with a lot of touch, which is a skill that requires different mechanics than when he’s throwing line drives. Another concern is that his accuracy dips when throwing to the left. Coaches believe it’s a combination of footwork problems and a tendency to overstride.

 

“I just don’t think he’s fully aware where his lower body’s supposed to go and get to, to set up the type of misses that he was having,” one coach said.

 

When throwing to the left, he doesn’t align his body correctly with his feet and then overstrides, trying to rip passes in. This is seen as a correctable issue. One coach said when he starts working with quarterbacks, one of the first throws they’ll work on for a right-handed quarterback is throwing left off of five-step drops.

 

“Typically, the hardest area for guys to get right early,” the coach said. “Once you get it and you know how to hack it, it’s easy.”

 

 

Edited April 10 by HTTRDynasty

[Warhead36]

I just cant believe an analytics driven FO which this appears to be would take someone like Daniels who fails so many of the analytics tests. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

12 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Good article.  Maye's grade isn't as low as I expected when I first read the headline and the QB coaches agree with many in this thread that his mechanics/footwork issues are largely fixable: 

 

https://theathletic.com/5390475/2024/04/09/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-mechanics-rankings-grades/

 

Which of the NFL Draft’s top QBs has the best mechanics? Experts grade each passer

To add some informed opinions about the mechanics of this year’s top quarterback prospects, I got some of the top private quarterback coaches in the country to rate and comment on how Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Jayden Daniels, J.J. McCarthy, Michael Penix Jr., Bo Nix and Spencer Rattler throw the ball. They will remain anonymous because they have worked with some of the discussed prospects in some capacity and could in the future.

 

They graded efficiency, speed, adaptability and overall mechanics on a scale of 1-5. I averaged their overall grades for a final grade. Efficiency is the ability to transfer force from their hips, speed is how quick their release is, and adaptability is how well they can adjust their mechanics to overcome external factors. The overall grade isn’t a cumulative score of the other three categories but just a grade on the quarterback’s overall mechanics that could include factors outside of the listed categories.

 

These grades are strictly for mechanics, which doesn’t correlate with an overall grade for a quarterback. Playing quarterback involves many factors other than mechanics. This article focuses on only one element of quarterback play, one often rife with conjecture.

 

• 1 – Problematic
• 2 – Will take a lot of work to fix
• 3 – Fixable
• 4 – Good
• 5 – Excellent

 

 

This guy just plagiarized everything I’ve said since February.

[mac8887]

26 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 

 

When I see Jaden Daniels play, I see a quarterback whose coaches told him to look to run anytime there is pressure, and I think that the reason they told him that is because in the other four years that he played, whenever he was pressured and he took off running, more often than not the result would be good, but when he didn’t, more often than not **** went sideways.

 

 

Per Herm Edward’s who coached Daniels at ASU, he was coached to run when the play went sideways. He stated this in an interview with Jon Kiem. So at least we know with 100% certainty that this is what he was coached to do at ASU. 

[illone]

2 hours ago, mac8887 said:

If we could find a way to land JJ and pick up more draft capital, id be very happy. He feels to me like if you’d take the best parts of Alex Smiths game and married it with the best parts of Kirk cousins game. He’s my favorite only behind Caleb Williams and it’s close there as well.

 

on a side note, I find it a little concerning that some are willing to write off peters if he picks Daniels and Daniels plays poorly while Maye plays well. I know we’ve got some really divided opinions on these QBs, but I think we should at least give him 3 or 4 years to decide if he is a good GM or not. 

 

 

It would then depend on the other players acquired in this draft class.  If he hits on a few day 2 and day 3 guys, but misses on the QB, I doubt ownership would be quick to replace Peters.

 

Plus, it will also depend on the optics of how the other players do which will take more than one season to figure out.

 

My guess is we will get a true five years from Peters, and if things go well, he will be extended at least once.

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Per Herm Edward’s who coached Daniels at ASU, he was coached to run when the play went sideways. He stated this in an interview with Jon Kiem. So at least we know with 100% certainty that this is what he was coached to do at ASU. 

Extremely concerning. At least with Mariota as our back up, we know we will be picking high once Daniels is inevitably broken with a clearly audible snapping of the pelvis.