The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[mistertim]

43 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

 

What have those prototypical pocket passers you mentioned won compared to the dual threat guys, save mahomes and stafford? It takes a lot more than just the qb and style of play they utilize to hoist a lombardi. Coaching, system, supporting cast, and plain old luck all play big roles here
 

Also ironic that we talk so much about these running QBs like daniels destined to get hurt when burrow can’t stay healthy for the life of him. Tua is one concussion away from early retirement. Kirk just had a major season ending injury while in the pocket, untouched. Stafford has been fighting injuries for a while now. It can happen to anyone, but because we had RG the same thing will surely happen to daniels

 

 

This argument for running QBs is old and getting a bit stale.

 

Let's say every QB starts out on even footing with regards to chance of getting injured in the pocket, which is pretty much true. Then take that equal footing and add to it for the running QB, since that running QB is going to get hit much more, just because of his playing style.

 

The running QB has a higher chance for injury because he can get hurt in the pocket, like any QB, but he can also get hurt when he turns into a running back outside of the pocket and gets hit.

Edited April 3 by mistertim

[dunfer]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This argument for running QBs is old and getting a bit stale.

 

Let's say every QB starts out on even footing with regards to chance of getting injured in the pocket, which is pretty much true. Then take that equal footing and add to it for the running QB, since that running QB is going to get hit much more, just because of his playing style.

 

The running QB has a higher chance for injury because he can get hurt in the pocket, like any QB, but he can also get hurt when he turns into a running back outside of the pocket and gets hit.

its tough. all qbs are going to be injured at some point just because they are the target on every play. I think you want a scrambler that has eyes in the back of his head and constantly rolls away from pressure. Im guessing thats Williams this draft though

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, dunfer said:

its tough. all qbs are going to be injured at some point just because they are the target on every play. I think you want a scrambler that has eyes in the back of his head and constantly rolls away from pressure. Im guessing thats Williams this draft though

 

Yeah that's why I greatly prefer a QB who scrambles to buy time while keeping his eyes downfield, but has the legs to pick up a first down if there's green grass in front of him vs a guy who's more likely to pull his eyes down and tuck and run. One of the reasons I prefer Maye over Daniels.

[DogofWar1]

17 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

This offseason feels like people are dumber than normal.

 

"We polled the wolves as to what the sheep should do."

[WashingtonRedWolves]

29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This argument for running QBs is old and getting a bit stale.

 

Let's say every QB starts out on even footing with regards to chance of getting injured in the pocket, which is pretty much true. Then take that equal footing and add to it for the running QB, since that running QB is going to get hit much more, just because of his playing style.

 

The running QB has a higher chance for injury because he can get hurt in the pocket, like any QB, but he can also get hurt when he turns into a running back outside of the pocket and gets hit.

What about running QBs that get sacked less because they’re able to escape pressure/sacks in the pocket vs primary pocket passers? Or a qb that takes off and even if he doesn’t slide or run out of bounds before getting hit (which can and should be drilled into him) is now taking a hit from a much smaller corner/safety vs a hulking brute of an edge rusher or even worse a bunch of 300+ guys piling onto him at the line of scrimmage?

 

How many major injuries have we seen to QBs taking hits behind the line of scrimmage with their leg planted vs beyond it? Seems to be heavily skewed to one side so a guy that’s better equipped to escape those kind of hits seems like a good bet

Edited April 3 by WashingtonRedWolves

[dunfer]

1 minute ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

What about running QBs that get sacked less because they’re able to escape pressure/sacks in the pocket vs primary pocket passers? Or a qb that takes off and even if he doesn’t slide or run out of bounds before getting hit (which can and should be drilled into him) is now taking a hit from a much smaller corner/safety vs a hulking brute of an edge rusher or even worse a bunch of 300+ guys piling onto him at the line of scrimmage?

 

How many major injuries have we seen to QBs taking hits behind the line of scrimmage vs beyond it? Seems to be heavily skewed to one side so a guy that’s better equipped to escape those kind of hits seems like a good bet

all qbs get injured. the ones that find a way to stay behind the los win superbowls though

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

What about running QBs that get sacked less because they’re able to escape pressure/sacks in the pocket vs primary pocket passers? Or a qb that takes off and even if he doesn’t slide or run out of bounds before getting hit (which can and should be drilled into him) is now taking a hit from a much smaller corner/safety vs a hulking brute of an edge rusher or even worse a bunch of 300+ guys piling onto him at the line of scrimmage?

 

How many major injuries have we seen to QBs taking hits behind the line of scrimmage vs beyond it? Seems to be heavily skewed to one side so a guy that’s better equipped to escape those kind of hits seems like a good bet

 

In the first part you're not really describing a running QB, you're describing a scrambling dual threat QB who has legs but uses them to buy time and keeps his eyes downfield, and usually only runs if nobody is open and he sees green grass in front of him.

 

And a QB that takes off and doesn't slide or run out of bounds is generally a dumbass and needs to have that drilled into his head. That's why Burrow keeps getting hurt. That doesn't have anything to do with a scrambling dual threat QB vs a running QB.

 

Running QBs look to run a lot and hence they're going to get hit more and in a wider variety of angles and intensities vs other guys. Because of that it's just statistically more likely that they'll get hurt. Hell, Anthony Richardson has only started 4 games in the NFL and he already has a concussion and a separated shoulder by getting hit. And he's 245lbs. Imagine what those hits would have done to Daniels and his 200lb ass.

Edited April 3 by mistertim

[skinsarethebest]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

You do realize that you're basically alone on an island with this, right? I've never seen or read anything other than both Maye and Daniels being extremely hard workers. Even most of Maye's most vocal opponents don't claim he's not a hard worker.

you're missing my point.  I never said that Maye doesn't' have a strong work ethic. Of course, every single QB at this level has to have worked hard to have gotten to where they are. 

 

I'm saying that Daniels has been touted in various places as having an insane work ethic.    It's the ones that are obsessive bordering on pathological that really take it to another level.   The ones who are there at 4am in the morning.  Brady was apparently one of those.  I've heard the same said about Daniels so yes, I do believe that while both Maye and Daniels are hard workers, it is Daniels that has the more obsessive work ethic.  Now of course this could all be BS but I have seen/heard that comment made about Daniels.  I have never seen it made about Maye.

 

 

 

Edited April 3 by skinsarethebest

[Dah-Dee]

28 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Imagine what those hits would have done to Daniels and his 200lb ass.

 

[DogofWar1]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Like I keep coming back to this bit and I feel like this has got to be some front offices ****ing trolling these dudes.

 

DJ: "So Coach Reid, what do you think Washington should do?"
AR: "Well that's an interesting question, oh hey hang on" *mutes self*

"okay guys what should I tell him?"

Patrick Mahomes: "tell him they should trade down because taking a QB high in the draft never works."

*everyone snickers*

AR: "okay okay, shhh" *off mute* "uhhh they should trade down.  See DJ whenever you're this early in the draft you gotta build the team and then drop the QB in.  No one ever succeeds taking a QB early to a bad team." *mutes self* "pfffffffffffffffft"

Travis Kelce: *laughing in the fetal position in the corner*

DJ: "oh very good very good, I see what you're saying, very wise.  So what position should washington target?"

AR: "uhhhhhhhh" *mutes self* "what do I tell him?"

TK: "say tight end, it's the swiss army knife of positions."

AR: *unmutes* "tight end DJ, it's the Swedish army knife of positions." *mutes self right before they all burst out laughing*

DJ: "ah so Brock Bowers then, an interesting choice."

[88Comrade2000]

Even though there’s a rookie wage scale, the top picks still try to get as much as they can.

 

I think Caleb will do that and try to get Chicago to break the norm and probably won’t sign until training camp starts.

 

 

Why mention this? Our QB might not sign until they see how much Caleb can get from Chicago.

Edited April 3 by 88Comrade2000

[SoCalSkins]

20 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Even though there’s a rookie wage scale, the top picks still try to get as much as they can.

 

I think Caleb will do that and try to get Chicago to break the norm and probably won’t sign until training camp starts.

 

 

Why mention this? Our QB might not sign until they see how much Caleb can get from Chicago.

The amount of money is not actually negotiable it’s a scale that’s slotted based on pick number. The only thing that is variable is offset language and deferred compensation. 

[88Comrade2000]

Taylor still in the nfl, as he agreed to a pay cut.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Conn said:

For the Maye likers among us, maybe the elder Marty still being here as a consultant will be a good thing, given the only thing we know about him in recent years is that he loved Herbert in his draft year but couldn’t act on it (wasn’t here yet). If Maye is similar to Herbert, I have to think he has a big fan in Peters’ ear throughout this process. 
 

Also, for people talking about how despite Maye’s gigantic size difference with Daniels he doesn’t “look” that big…you realize that means Maye has the frame to fill out even more and age really well like a Roethlisberger? The guy could end up a rocked-up freak like Cam Newton if his body can support it, sure—or he could end up a quick-footed but thick 255 lbs in his 30’s like Ben and still be durable. Will take less of a beating than Big Ben did, too, because the league’s different. There are many paths to a potentially long career when you’re built like Maye and still look kinda gangly like he does. He’s 21, he’s not maxed out at all. That’s part of the appeal compared to someone who is 24 and would fit into a pair of jeans with a 28-inch waist. 

 

His brothers are taller than him, wouldn't shock me if he actually got a bit taller too.  You can still grow at 21.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, skinsarethebest said:

you're missing my point.  I never said that Maye doesn't' have a strong work ethic. Of course, every single QB at this level has to have worked hard to have gotten to where they are. 

 

I'm saying that Daniels has been touted in various places as having an insane work ethic.    It's the ones that are obsessive bordering on pathological that really take it to another level.   The ones who are there at 4am in the morning.  Brady was apparently one of those.  I've heard the same said about Daniels so yes, I do believe that while both Maye and Daniels are hard workers, it is Daniels that has the more obsessive work ethic.  Now of course this could all be BS but I have seen/heard that comment made about Daniels.  I have never seen it made about Maye.

 

 

 

 

Part of the narrative though from a story I recall reading and posting on this thread eons ago that Daniels' work ethic kicked in a big way THIS past off season versus it being his whole career.  He started showing up at 5 am and really kicking it in gear and his coaches noticed.  This is year 5 for him, not his full career.  Ditto breaking out of his shell some personality wise because by nature he's shy -- even his biggest advocate Riddick talked about that recently.

 

I like Daniels.  I admit though I don't love him continually talking about his work ethic.  Tom Brady worked hard, he rarely talked about it until later in his career.  He needed to be asked about it typically and then explain it.  Daniels likes to talk about it and it comes off self promotional.  I don't mind being a little self promotional on the topic.  But Daniels talks a bit much on it.

 

My point is his maturity seemed to find his place at 23.  That's cool.  Maye has this reputation at 20 and 21. 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/drake-maye-north-carolina-family-tradition-flourishing/ttwufyuwedm9jgvweboq8gzs

Drake appreciates his father's football recall, but talks just as much about his father's work ethic. 

"He gets up when the stock market opens and he's working until 4:30 when the stock market closes," Maye said. "He's doing after-hours stuff. It's kind of that obsession over something that he tries to instill in us. If we find something we love, then he tells us to put the maximum effort into it."

Edited April 3 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

His brothers are taller than him, wouldn't shock me if he actually got a bit taller too.  You can still grow at 21.

 

Which in my opinion wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

 

6'4 to 6'5 is the perfect height for a quarterback, shorter and you can't see the field as well, any taller and you start losing your mobility and become a bigger target.

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, redskinss said:

 

Which in my opinion wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

 

6'4 to 6'5 is the perfect height for a quarterback, shorter and you can't see the field as well, any taller and you start losing your mobility and become a bigger target.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Herbert if I recall is 6 '6.  I think its fine.  Maybe not beyond 6 '6 though.

[redskinss]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Herbert if I recall is 6 '6.  I think its fine.  Maybe not beyond 6 '6 though.

 

True but Herbert is a bit of an outlier.

 

over 6'5 and I believe Anything you gain in field visibility you start losing in mobility.

 

I guess it depends on which you value more but I think there's a sweet spot and maye is pretty much right there currently. 

[Rex Tomb]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

maye is pretty much right there currently.

Wouldn’t want him to shrink before the draft.  Definitely hurts his stock if he does.  
 

[Rolo Tomasie]

Wanted to address someone's comparison of Maye to Drew Lock a few pages ago. That made me think back. Lock had the size and arm but imo that's where the similarities end. Lock was a sidearm slinger with basically one speed to his throws. He was extremely slow to read plays, inaccurate, had zero anticipation. He ha none of the creativity, either with the arm or legs, that Maye shows repeatedly in his film. This is really just another "big southern white boy" lazy comp.

[skinsfan66]

9 hours ago, dunfer said:

Ive been getting the feeling this qb class isnt going to be as stacked as everyone used to be harping about

Same feeling but mainly about 2 of the 3 Blue Chippers. Overall it's stacked.      

[GardenStateSkins]

I don't get trading out of a top pick if your major need is a top tier QB. With this crop of QB's in the draft when is the last time we saw something like this? 

Granted a few of these teams have a lot of work to do (including us), however if QB is a glaring issue and you have a shot at one of these guys you trade back? Imagine trading back and passing up on a Maye or Daniels to let's say 11 and we draft McCarthy or Nix there and they are average at best or a total bust while Maye and Daniels really do end up being top-tier. It could go the other way as well where we stay at 2, draft Maye or Daniels and either of them becomes a bust while Nix and/or McCarthy become top-tier. I believe this comes down to coaching and how these young guys are groomed into their position at the end of the day. For me personally, I'd like us to stay at 2 and I won't be upset with either Maye or Daniels. It is getting a bit eye-rolling how many of these "experts" and journalists are falling for the smoke screens. Perhaps they aren't falling for them at all and just using them for clickbait. Sorry, I had too much coffee and I typed up a helluva lot more than I envisioned! 

Edited April 3 by GardenStateSkins

[TheBigJourney]

1 minute ago, GardenStateSkins said:

Imagine trading back

and passing up on a Maye or Daniels to let's say 11 and we pick draft McCarthy or Nix there and they are average at best or a total bust while Maye and Daniels really do end up being top-tier. It could go the other way as well where we stay at 2,

McCarthy is going top 5, you want him you have to pick him at 2

[GardenStateSkins]

3 minutes ago, TheBigJourney said:

McCarthy is going top 5, you want him you have to pick him at 2

Agreed! Just using his name as an example of what we could lose out on trading out of the 2nd spot. Replace McCarthy with Penix in my example 😁

Edited April 3 by GardenStateSkins