The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said:

I don’t think he would last as RB either. Maybe he can be a kick returner in the UFL.  

RB would be an odd position for a guy who weighs as much as a wet leaf.  

[illone]

Not really draft related, but Orlovsky farting reminds me of his QB takes.

 

 

[DogofWar1]

8 minutes ago, Jags said:

So that quarter inch of height and 15 pounds of weight is THAT transformative?  The difference between utter devastation and prototypical size is the weight of a bowling ball?  I agree that the overall style of Daniels' game has never aged all that well in the NFL, but we're getting hyperbolic about the weight thing.

 

Height not too important but weight actually can be.

 

I think it was Tice on one of Hoffman's podcasts who talked about how qbs under 205 just weren't successful in the NFL and a lot of that came down to how easy they were to yank down.

 

I am not even remotely a body builder but I was looking for info on like, how much is 225 different from say 200/205/210.

 

And one of the rules one of the dudes cited for bench was 2 fewer reps for every 5 pounds added.  So if someone did 5 reps at 210 they could do 1 rep at 220, and maybe get a sloppy 225/230 rep.

 

But every 5 pounds down it gets easier and easier to do by a fair bit, surprisingly, so I would say there probably is a fair difference between trying to yank down a 210 pound guy and trying to pull down a 225 guy.

[SkinsFTW]

15 minutes ago, Jags said:

 

Dude didn't miss a start in 55 games in college, despite his size and sack/hit tendencies.  In his entire college career he missed like 15 minutes because he had to clear concussion protocol (and did). 

 

[DogofWar1]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There's no way Daniels plays at 210 lbs, and everybody knows it.  He refused to get weighed at the combine, most likely because he was going to weigh around 200, maybe even less.  

 

Whoever the guy on with Galdi this morning joked he was probably pounding 50 PBJ sandwiches a day for 2 months to get to 210.  And now it's all going to go away.

 

I was about to write him off on his pro day when I saw the 210 number but seeing up close pics he did look for muscular than I remembered.

 

My working assumption is he's a true 210.  He didn't have a belly that day so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

HOWEVER I am assuming 210 is about all his frame can handle and see absolutely no reason to think he can ever hit 220.  He had all offseason to get up to 215/220 if it was possible and didn't.

 

I imagine part of the top 30 visit is gonna be hiding a scale under a rug and seeing if he's still 210.

[jg77]

Daniels is going to be really good for us.  He reminds me of a taller Kyler Murray.

 

I don't see the Allen or Herbert comp for Maye.  He reminds me so much of Blake Bortles with that long windup.  I hope he ends up in a situation where he can sit at least a full year and sort out his mechanics.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BMagic said:

 

This is why Dan's "coach-centric" model with Ron Rivera was so wild imo. A good organization has checks and balances. Daniels has crisp mechanics with a more refined release, which is to be expected since he's a fifth year player. A coach is more likely going to gravitate toward the guy who they feel can help them win games faster, for better job security. A GM is more concerned with the long-term state of the Franchise and will lean toward who they project to be the best in 5-10 years. Maye is more raw from a technical standpoint and is going to require more fine-tuning from coaches, but the traits and special throws are seen in his tape.

 

Agree about the coach centric model.  The GM model is better everything being equal IMO.

 

Having said that i don't know that the GM and the coaches feel differently on this.  it's just speculation from some of us that they might.  I do know that the coaches Keim has talked to prefer Daniels and it sounds like its not super tight between the two QB with them.  As for how GMs feel?  Don't know.

 

I've put in a lot of time on Maye and put up a lot of positive posts on him.  That's who I want.  But I am not assuming my opinion = fact.  It's just opinion.  So i won't be stunned if Peters sees this differently.  Though I'll grant I might be more open minded on that then some because while i like Maye over Daniels -- I don't see the idea that some might prefer Daniels as nuts.  i get the logic of liking a Qb with uber mobility.  But if it were me, I'd go Maye.

 

 

Edited April 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Dah-Dee]

Little surprised nobody has realized yet that DQ just told us who they're drafting at 2.  Quinn wants a puppy:

 

https://www.essentiallysports.com/nfl-active-news-dan-quinn-demands-a-relentless-dog-as-washington-commanders-next-qb-amid-jayden-daniels-drake-maye-decision/

 

Dan Quinn Demands a ‘Relentless Dog’ as Washington Commanders’ Next QB Amid Jayden Daniels & Drake Maye Decision

 

 

 

.... and Maye IS a puppy!

 

 

 

 

We can close the thread now, you're welcome, kk thx bai.

[DogofWar1]

14 minutes ago, jg77 said:

Daniels is going to be really good for us.  He reminds me of a taller Kyler Murray.

 

I don't see the Allen or Herbert comp for Maye.  He reminds me so much of Blake Bortles with that long windup.  I hope he ends up in a situation where he can sit at least a full year and sort out his mechanics.

 

Watching Maye, his windup varies in speed pretty significantly.  I agree it's slow sometimes but you'll see some plays where he fires it off in a flash.

 

Kinda like his footwork, I think he CAN do things right, and often does, but can definitely work of getting the mechanics more right more often.

[ntotoro]

20 minutes ago, jg77 said:

Daniels is going to be really good for us.  He reminds me of a taller Kyler Murray.

 

A Kyler Murray comparison isn't exactly a compliment. 

[illone]

Kyler Murray isnt the flex you think it is...

 

They had to write in a "study" clause in his contract because he played video games instead of prepping for Sunday.

 

They did end up removing it (due to public response lol) but have you ever heard of such a thing?

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34309612/arizona-cardinals-remove-independent-study-clause-quarterback-kyler-murray-contract

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

So then he turns to what he's hearing from around the league.  That's reporting, but it's not reporting on what this team will do.  I think it's impossible not to admit he has a preference.  And I haven't heard him say he's talking to current coaches.  I do listen to all of his podcasts.  I've heard "coaches" and I've heard "People in the NFL" and I've heard "people around the league."  I might have missed "current coaches."  But candidly, I haven't heard him say those words in what I can remember.

 

Anyway, it's kindof irrelevant.  I like him.  He's my go-to source for news.

 

I don't have any reason to believe he's not reporting what he's hearing.  However, I also don't buy the league is 80% Daniels over Maye.  The eye test doesn't lead me to that conclusion.  And that's what he's reporting, so something is fishy. 

 

Shrug.  I'm not here to criticize Keim.  I really like him.  

 

 

He definitely said multiple times current coaches and ones without a stake in this.  

 

As far as your eye test leads you to believe that the league would have to see it in a certain way.  That's a lot of faith in your evaluation skills.  Look i am a Maye guy too but i don't see my takes as being so strong that the league must see it somewhat similar to the way I do. 

 

It's not as if there aren't some other talking heads who don't have a hard opinons that Daniels >>> Maye or the reverse.    

 

As for Keim personally has a preference.  That comes off silly to me.  He's not a Commanders fan  I can't think of a dude who covers this team who is more impassive as to sharing his own takes.  He's all about everyone else's takes.  And why would he change from saying he would lean Maye weeks back if he has some sort of personal predispostion for Daniels?  It would be beyond odd especially for Keim.

Edited April 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Jags]

50 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I would say there probably is a fair difference between trying to yank down a 210 pound guy and trying to pull down a 225 guy.

 

And I would say the exact same thing.  A fair difference.  No hyperbole there.  I agree.  And then there's...

 

59 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Maye is tall and built.  

 

If you see them next to each other, one looks like they can take the other's lunch money without too much issue.    

 

...hyperbole galore.  Maye is tall.  A quarter inch taller.  Big difference?  And built?  Did you see him without his shirt on at his pro day?  Not remotely built.  Like barely at all.

 

Now to be fair, he doesn't have to be.  The wider meso frame is an advantage, and his actual build in terms of musculature is absolutely fine.  He's well-proportioned with a great wingspan, and his arm talent shows his flexibility.  But no, he's not built.  In fact, it's kinda the other way around.  Daniels has that ectomorphic build for sure, which isn't ideal.  But he's pretty well built for a guy with that frame.  He was definitely rail-thin last year, but look at the meat on his legs at his pro day.  He's back to looking like he did a couple years ago...

 

And yeah, I'm sure he went to McDonald's and hydrated his ass off, but that's what you do when you're making that change.  There's no question he's been chasing that with workouts.

 

 

You're right that he's thin comparatively speaking.  But he's laid out the way you'd want a guy his size to be for sure, and no, Maye is no Adonis, even by comparison.  Most of the weight difference is the mesomorphic frame.

 

44 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

his pro day when I saw the 210 number but seeing up close pics he did look for muscular than I remembered.

My working assumption is he's a true 210.  He didn't have a belly that day so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

HOWEVER I am assuming 210 is about all his frame can handle and see absolutely no reason to think he can ever hit 220.

I imagine part of the top 30 visit is gonna be hiding a scale under a rug and seeing if he's still 210.

 

For the record, this is how I feel about it, 100%.  I think his weight at his pro day was probably accurate and that he looked strong.  Part of my concern with his frame is how top-heavy he seemed, so adding weight to his base (which was very evident that day) is a good sign.

But I also agree that he's likely maxed out his frame for the most part.  220 might not be unattainable, but the worry with a high-metabolism ecto build is how hard he'd have to work in the gym to keep it on.  I don't want my franchise guy putting those kinds of miles on his body in the gym, plus it's a great way to overdevelop and hurt yourself.

 

If he can learn to better protect himself I'm not too concerned with his size.

Edited April 2 by Jags

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Jags said:

f he can learn to better protect himself I'm not too concerned with his size.

If he has to run the ball 9-10 times a game at his size he won’t make it through the season regardless of how well he protects himself.  
 

QBs who are presented as a run threat all get hurt.  Hurts played this entire season with a bum knee.  Lamar has missed significant time in 2 seasons.  Murray has been in and out of the lineup.  
 

You take that history and add a tall, slight build, and you are asking to spend a lot of time on IR. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I like Daniels.  If they pick him I’ll be surprised but excited.  But I will also be very nervous because of the risk of injury.  

[SoCalSkins]

54 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

If that’s him in college this him in the NFL:

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He definitely said multiple times current coaches and ones without a stake in this.  

 

As far as your eye test leads you to believe that the league would have to see it in a certain way.  That's a lot of faith in your evaluation skills.  Look i am a Maye guy too but i don't see my takes as being so strong that the league must see it somewhat similar the way I do. 

 

It's not as if there aren't some other talking heads who don't have a hard opinons that Daniels >>> Maye or the reverse.    

 

As for Keim personally has a preference.  That comes off silly to me.  He's not a Commanders fan  I can't think of a dude who covers this team who is more impassive as to sharing his own takes.  He's all about everyone else's takes.  And why would he change from saying he would lean Maye weeks back if he has some sort of personal predispostion for Daniels?  It would be beyond odd especially for Keim.

Tell you what: I’ll bet you all the money in my left front pocket against all the money on your left front pocket Daniels doesn’t even go in the top 3.  
 

That’s my hot take.  I think it’s Williams, Maye, McCarthy (to the Vikings at 3, which will be a disaster), Harrison Jr. to Arizona, Daniels to the Raiders at 5.  
 

I think this Daniels hype is media driven nonesense. 
 

If it plays out that way, will you admit Keim kindof got sold a bill of goods by folks and he fell for it hook, line and sinker?  Because that’s what I think is going on.  
 

I’m probably wrong.  But I’m going with my gut on this.  

[CapsSkins]

19 minutes ago, Jags said:

 

And I would say the exact same thing.  A fair difference.  No hyperbole there.  I agree.  And then there's...

 

 

...hyperbole galore.  Maye is tall.  A quarter inch taller.  Big difference?  And built?  Did you see him without his shirt on at his pro day?  Not remotely built.  Like barely at all.

 

Now to be fair, he doesn't have to be.  The wider meso frame is an advantage, and his actual build in terms of musculature is absolutely fine.  He's well-proportioned with a great wingspan, and his arm talent shows his flexibility.  But no, he's not built.  In fact, it's kinda the other way around.  Daniels has that ectomorphic build for sure, which isn't ideal.  But he's pretty well built for a guy with that frame.  He was definitely rail-thin last year, but look at the meat on his legs at his pro day.  He's back to looking like he did a couple years ago...

 

And yeah, I'm sure he went to McDonald's and hydrated his ass off, but that's what you do when you're making that change.  There's no question he's been chasing that with workouts.

 

 

You're right that he's thin comparatively speaking.  But he's laid out the way you'd want a guy his size to be for sure, and no, Maye is no Adonis, even by comparison.  Most of the weight difference is the mesomorphic frame.

 

 

For the record, this is how I feel about it, 100%.  I think his weight at his pro day was probably accurate and that he looked strong.  Part of my concern with his frame is how top-heavy he seemed, so adding weight to his base (which was very evident that day) is a good sign.

But I also agree that he's likely maxed out his frame for the most part.  220 might not be unattainable, but the worry with a high-metabolism ecto build is how hard he'd have to work in the gym to keep it on.  I don't want my franchise guy putting those kinds of miles on his body in the gym, plus it's a great way to overdevelop and hurt yourself.

 

If he can learn to better protect himself I'm not too concerned with his size.

 

The frame is more important than how "built" these guys are. They're not entering bodybuilding competitions, they're trying to stay upright and healthy. It's all about functional strength and durability, not optics. 

[Conn]

For the Maye likers among us, maybe the elder Marty still being here as a consultant will be a good thing, given the only thing we know about him in recent years is that he loved Herbert in his draft year but couldn’t act on it (wasn’t here yet). If Maye is similar to Herbert, I have to think he has a big fan in Peters’ ear throughout this process. 
 

Also, for people talking about how despite Maye’s gigantic size difference with Daniels he doesn’t “look” that big…you realize that means Maye has the frame to fill out even more and age really well like a Roethlisberger? The guy could end up a rocked-up freak like Cam Newton if his body can support it, sure—or he could end up a quick-footed but thick 255 lbs in his 30’s like Ben and still be durable. Will take less of a beating than Big Ben did, too, because the league’s different. There are many paths to a potentially long career when you’re built like Maye and still look kinda gangly like he does. He’s 21, he’s not maxed out at all. That’s part of the appeal compared to someone who is 24 and would fit into a pair of jeans with a 28-inch waist. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Tell you what: I’ll bet you all the money in my left front pocket against all the money on your left front pocket Daniels doesn’t even go in the top 3.  
 

That’s my hot take.  I think it’s Williams, Maye, McCarthy (to the Vikings at 3, which will be a disaster), Harrison Jr. to Arizona, Daniels to the Raiders at 5.  
 

I think this Daniels hype is media driven nonesense. 
 

If it plays out that way, will you admit Keim kindof got sold a bill of goods by folks and he fell for it hook, line and sinker?  Because that’s what I think is going on.  
 

I’m probably wrong.  But I’m going with my gut on this.  

 

I'd take that bet.

 

Why would coaches who aren't taking a Qb who Keim clearly has trusted in this past this time play him?  for kicks?  The jig is up Keim because he's gotten too much credibility so they want to burn him this time?  what's their motivation to mess with Keim now of all times let alone every coach being in on this that he talked to?

Edited April 2 by Skinsinparadise

[DiscoBob]

4 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Need to get Jim Zorn with his slip-n-slide then.

 

 

 

 

Woah woah woah

 

Careful with the Zornstar posts!

[illone]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Tell you what: I’ll bet you all the money in my left front pocket against all the money on your left front pocket Daniels doesn’t even go in the top 3.  
 

That’s my hot take.  I think it’s Williams, Maye, McCarthy (to the Vikings at 3, which will be a disaster), Harrison Jr. to Arizona, Daniels to the Raiders at 5.  

 

 

JJ growing on ya?

 

😂

 

That's more of a "warm" take IMO. I think Penix > Daniels.

 

If we trade down and Jayden is there, I'd trade down again...

 

 

[Jags]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Don’t get me wrong, I like Daniels.  If they pick him I’ll be surprised but excited.  But I will also be very nervous because of the risk of injury.

 

I agree with everything in this post, and this sums it up nicely.  I'm leaning Maye, too, but I won't be heartbroken if it's Daniels.

 

I love football, and dual-threat QBs are fun.  When I see one take off it's always, "go... Go... GO!!!!!"  But when it's MY guy it's, "get down... Get Down... SLIDE!!!!!"  Then I close my eyes and hope the announcers don't say, "Oh no... ... ...That's just...  Gross...  I mean, ew... They're not supposed to bend like that... [dry heaving sounds]... Sorry, Steve...  How are they going to put him on a stretcher all twisted up that way?"  And so on.

 

That's what I'm talking about.  Watching him with that W on his helmet was going to ****ing kill me.  But then he showed up to his pro day looking like this and I'm thinking maybe I'll be able to survive it with a pacemaker cuz dude looked like an extra from Captain Phillips like 6 months ago...

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 minutes ago, Jags said:

I love football, and dual-threat QBs are fun.

I actually much prefer a QB who controls the entire game from a 7 foot square behind the LOS and barely has to move.  Peyton Manning was my favorite QB to watch in his prime.  Brees was second and Brady third. Going back, I was a huge fan of Marino.  They could all slide in the pocket.  But they really didn’t have to run.  They beat you with their brain and their arm.

 

That’d my bias.  It’s the type of QB I like.  
 

I also really enjoyed Elway because while he could stand still and crush you with his arm, he was such a spectacular athlete he could do anything.  
 

The guy who threw the absolute prettiest ball I’ve ever seen was Warren Moon.  That guy could spin it.  Always wish he played on teams that had more success.  He was so good.  But he had the mobility of a refrigerator. 

26 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

JJ growing on ya?

 

😂

 

That's more of a "warm" take IMO. I think Penix > Daniels.

 

If we trade down and Jayden is there, I'd trade down again...

 

 

No.  I think it would be a complete disaster. 

 

But I just have this hunch teams are going to go with the more traditional QBs first.  

[Dah-Dee]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I actually much prefer a QB who controls the entire game from a 7 foot square behind the LOS and barely has to move.  Peyton Manning was my favorite QB to watch in his prime.  Brees was second and Brady third. Going back, I was a huge fan of Marino.  They could all slide in the pocket.  But they really didn’t have to run.  They beat you with their brain and their arm.

 

That’d my bias.  It’s the type of QB I like.  
 

I also really enjoyed Elway because while he could stand still and crush you with his arm, he was such a spectacular athlete he could do anything.  
 

The guy who threw the absolute prettiest ball I’ve ever seen was Warren Moon.  That guy could spin it.  Always wish he played on teams that had more success.  He was so good.  But he had the mobility of a refrigerator. 

 

Jags: Dual threat QBs are fun!

 

VoR:

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd take that bet.

 

Why would coaches who aren't taking a Qb who Keim clearly has trusted in this past this time play him?  for kicks?  The jig is up Keim because he's gotten too much credibility so they want to burn him this time?  what's their motivation to mess with Keim now of all times let alone every coach being in on this that he talked to?

It’s lying season. 
 

And whatever you say, Keim has clearly expressed , especially when on with Bram and they’re both stroking each others Daniels obsession, he leans Daniels personally.  
 

He had a preference. He’s not unbiased.  And that’s fine. He’s totally allowed to.  He is NOT reporting anything.  He’s allowed to have an opinion.  In fact I would be shocked if he didn’t have an opinion. And I’m fine with him voicing the opinion.  
 

And if I lose the bet, you can go retire with the $0 I have in my left front pocket.