The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Command The 414]

42 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

The guy is undoubtedly a worse prospect coming out of college than RG3 and Bryce Young. Our own Adam Peters supposedly told him to stay in school instead of declaring for the draft previously because he’s worth a 5th round pick and his skills don’t translate into the NFl.  
 

The guy is a 1 year wonder surrounded by really good talent. His other 4 years were not good.  He also makes Forbes look like a body builder. 


I honestly don’t get the hype around him and what people see in him. How can you look at as his hits alone from last year and think this dude will be available for 17 weeks a year over the span of a long career? It’s a fantasy. 
 

 

Completely agree on all fronts, and I loved and LOL when I read “he makes Forbes look like a body builder” LOL 😝 … how true…. 

[skinsfan66]

least excited for Daniels. (If they draft him I hope I am wrong).  His Age, Body/Style of play. move him down for me. He had the one of the most talented offensive teams around him last year. 2 of his WR's could be all pro's in the NFL. His running is a plus but like Bob that does not turn the needle for me. 

 

Maye last year did not have the Offense talent like 2022. He is young and I much prefer his age/Body style of play. Some compare him to Herbert who is a favorite of mine.  I could get excited at 2.

 

J.J. Played on a all around team with a lot good players on Offense not great. Has won everywhere he has been, State. HS champ, Nat. HS champ Nat. College champ. I prefer his age and leader style. But not at 2 and with a slight trade down (that would be a surprise) because he may sit a year or may not. I could get excited. I wanted Howell to be here too just in case.

 

I cannot get excited for Penix because of injuries and mobility in the pocket.  Played on the most talented offensive team WR's and OL overall. If we took him in a major trade down late 1 early 2 I would be okay.

 

Williams will not be in play. I have not been for a move up to 1 also. Not sure Nix get's drafted in the 1st.

 

Maye is the no.1 choice for me.

J.J. at 2/5 is no.2 choice

Be okay and not very excited with the other 2, but could be won over.

 

Has been this way for me all the way through and the Howell trade sealed the deal.

Whatever happens I hope they get it right. They have choices and I will be on board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Command The 414]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

That's my thing with McCarthy too. He doesn't represent a home run swing. He's not awful, but after a 4 win season and the #2 overall pick, if JJ freaking McCarthy is our prize than that's a colossal disappointment.

So what you’re saying is you are a appearance guy?  You like the shiny, flashy, fast, hyped and the thing everyone says you need to be successful.

 

Over the dependable, reliable, and trustworthy but just bland.  The only thing Maye & Daniels have over McCarthy is hype, and flash imho.  Give me dependable all day over those 2 traits…

 

If, Adam Peters takes JJ at #2 or drops back to 3 then I can live with that, I’d rather win ugly with a no so flashy guy then lose with a flashy guy and I highly doubt Peters and Co are concerned with our being disappointed or any other emotions we have.

[Warhead36]

15 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

So what you’re saying is you are a appearance guy?  You like the shiny, flashy, fast, hyped and the thing everyone says you need to be successful.

 

Over the dependable, reliable, and trustworthy but just bland.  The only thing Maye & Daniels have over McCarthy is hype, and flash imho.  Give me dependable all day over those 2 traits…

 

If, Adam Peters takes JJ at #2 or drops back to 3 then I can live with that, I’d rather win ugly with a no so flashy guy then lose with a flashy guy and I highly doubt Peters and Co are concerned with our being disappointed or any other emotions we have.

No. I wanna shoot for elite traits that can translate to the NFL. I don't want a Brock Purdy. Those guys aren't needle movers and represent the absolute worst place to be in: QB purgatory, which is exactly where the 9ers will be in a couple years after they're forced to pay him.

 

Go for a guy that has traits that could potentially have him as a franchise carrying QB. McCarthy isn't that. He won a national title throwing like 10 passes a game. He's a fine prospect, if you take him at like the end of the 1st or 2nd round on a team that's already good you should be happy. He's not a guy you take #2 overall. He's not a guy that will strap a team on his back and carry them for 3-5+ years.

 

I'm tired of drafting Patrick Ramseys and Jason Campbells and Dwayne Hasksinses(RIP). I wanna take a swing on a guy that can make Pro Bowls and All Pros and have us playing late season national televised games with home field advantage on the line every year for the next decade. McCarthy is not that guy.

[mac8887]

The Kiem/Herm interview was pretty good. At least we know now that at ASU, Herm had Daniels looking to run instead of throw when the play went grey. He did seem to throw on the move a little more last year. 

[Anselmheifer]

Regarding Daniel’s, it’s not just the speed and strength of NFL defenders compared to college. It’s also a 17 game season plus the playoffs. That’s a lot of cumulative wear for a runner. 

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's the bigger mystery of the three QBs because of course the burden was almost never on him to win the game.   He had a lot of play action, extra blockers, good defense -- to help him part the seas.

 

So he's almost the reverse of Maye who had everything on his plate with so little help.

 

But he was good when he needed to make plays.  And his ability to make plays on the move stylstically reminds me a lot of Tannehill in college.    I know Tannehill now is considered "meh".  But he had a good run.  I think his floor is probably somewhere around Tannehill.  He might have the highest floor of the three.

 

I like Maye better because of his arm talent.  I like Daniels better because of his wheels.  I wouldn't be upset if its McCarthy just not as excited.  Right now, i am betting and I'd bet big they go Maye or Daniels.  For me to think McCarthy I need Keim or someone to hint serious interest.  Maybe that's coming.  But right now it feels like 90% chance or more its Maye or Daniels.

I'm cooling on McCarthy, A LOT. It was one thing, when you could Haskins style dart throw in the middle of round 1. Incomplete CV, some concerning stuff in the #'s, and looking at tape, some promising stuff too. Dice roll between 11-32? Okay. I could do that. But top 4 pick? That's clinical insanity to me. Top 5-7 picks is insane too. Just makes zero sense to me. 

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I like Michael Penix though.  No way I would choose him instead of Maye, but if we were picking third, I would trade back and pick him instead of Daniels or McCarthy top five.  I think he's better than both of them.  He's a lot stronger than them and he's creative and anticipates really well.  I think his pocket mobility and elusiveness are the best in the class, and he sees the field almost as well as Maye and Williams.  Aside from his injury history, the only thing I don't like about his game is the ugly, super low release.

I agree. Love Penix as a guy later in the first. Somebody could really get a steal. I like Maye and Williams better. I’m not sure about Daniels. But, it wouldn’t surprise me if Penix became a big time player in the right situation. 
 

If I was Pittsburg, for instance, I would rather have taken a shot on Penix. Maybe Atlanta should draft him. Kirk can’t play forever. 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

Im at the point that if we don't take Maye I would rather take McCarthy over Daniels.

I think I'd rather trade down than take daniels, I actually like Penix in the mid to late 1st more than Daniels at 2 or 3. But I hate Penix injury history and age. Maye should so obviously be the pick to me. The risk with Daniels in terms of floor, and the lower long term ceiling make this so simple, to me anyway. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I'm cooling on McCarthy, A LOT. It was one thing, when you could Haskins style dart throw in the middle of round 1. Incomplete CV, some concerning stuff in the #'s, and looking at tape, some promising stuff too. Dice roll between 11-32? Okay. I could do that. But top 4 pick? That's clinical insanity to me. Top 5-7 picks is insane too. Just makes zero sense to me. 

 

He feels to me like the biggest wildcard in the draft.  I notice some say top 4 lock.  Some say he falls outside of the top 10.  Reading some of the scouts takes from McGinn's reports if there is anything to them he doesn't come off as a top 5 lock by a long shot.  But heck QBs tend to go earlier than expected.

 

I am no expert of course but IMHO he reminds me the most of Tannehill, college Tannehill, if I had to guess his career trajectory it woudn't surprise me if he has that kind of career.  10-15 range type of QB ceiling. 

Edited March 21 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

If I was Pittsburg, for instance, I would rather have taken a shot on Penix. Maybe Atlanta should draft him. Kirk can’t play forever. 

 

Penix needs an open job now.  He's ready to play as a rookie, and he is old for a prospect.  Atlanta and Pittsburgh would be bad fits for him, especially Atlanta.

 

If I were Minnesota, I'd just sit tight and draft him at 11, and then use the other first to get Brian Thomas.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

You're vastly overrating how much teams will fear Daniels. He's not going to be the run threat Jackson is. He's closer to Bustin Fields

 

What are you basing this on?

 

Your logic would allow me to compare Drake Maye to Zach Wilson, right? Or Sam Darnold? Trubisky? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

The more I think about it the more Maye makes the most sense. 
 

The trap teams fall into is having a QB that’s good enough that you have to pay like he’s top 5, but it’s not actually good enough to preform that way by himself. Dak is an example of one paid like it but can’t play. Mahomes is the obvious example of a guy who is paid and can preform. 
 

There is only one guy in the draft that has been asked to do it all by himself and actually succeeded at it. That’s something I value, I think, more than anything. He was THE guy. At some point if he is good enough he will have to the THE guy in the NFL because we won’t have enough money to pay him and everyone else. When I think of it like that it gets really obvious. 

 

Or commit fully to a player with a higher probability of achieving elite impact during his rookie contract. A quarterback with exceptional running abilities drafted in the first or second round can establish a playoff foundation and offer a chance to compete against top quarterbacks in the divisional and championship rounds of the playoffs.

 

This elite run ability QB has clean mechanics—mind blown

 

Sign me up! 

Edited March 21 by wit33

[Warhead36]

Penix would be perfect for Dallas honestly. Good OL so lack of mobility wont kill him. He’ll probably give you like 75% of Dak for 10% of the cost. Advanced age doesn’t hurt because theyre in win now mode.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Command The 414 said:

So what you’re saying is you are a appearance guy?  You like the shiny, flashy, fast, hyped and the thing everyone says you need to be successful.

 

Over the dependable, reliable, and trustworthy but just bland.  The only thing Maye & Daniels have over McCarthy is hype, and flash imho.  Give me dependable all day over those 2 traits…

 

If, Adam Peters takes JJ at #2 or drops back to 3 then I can live with that, I’d rather win ugly with a no so flashy guy then lose with a flashy guy and I highly doubt Peters and Co are concerned with our being disappointed or any other emotions we have.

I think you’re doing the comparisons, all of them, a disservice by reducing them to “shiny” vs “dependable”. It’s pretty much the epitome of a strawman argument, and anyone who engages with it honestly is kind of wasting their time. Too many arbitrary words to define first before you can even have that conversation, but you’re talking about it like it’s patently obvious and should be accepted on face value. 

[mhd24]

25 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Penix needs an open job now.  He's ready to play as a rookie, and he is old for a prospect.  Atlanta and Pittsburgh would be bad fits for him, especially Atlanta.

 

If I were Minnesota, I'd just sit tight and draft him at 11, and then use the other first to get Brian Thomas.

Vegas makes a ton of sense.  Minshew is only signed for two years.  I think they draft a RT at 13 (Fuaga or Latham) and trade up from the 2nd into the late 1st and grab Penix.

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He feels to me like the biggest wildcard in the draft.  I notice some say top 4 lock.  Some say he falls outside of the top 10.  Reading some of the scouts takes from McGinn's reports if there is anything to them he doesn't come off as a top 5 lock by a long shot.  But heck QBs tend to go earlier than expected.

 

I am no expert of course but IMHO he reminds me the most of Tannehill, college Tannehill, if I had to guess his career trajectory it woudn't surprise me if he has that kind of career.  10-15 range type of QB ceiling. 

What does McGinn say about Drake?

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

The trap teams fall into is having a QB that’s good enough that you have to pay like he’s top 5, but it’s not actually good enough to preform that way by himself. Dak is an example of one paid like it but can’t play. Mahomes is the obvious example of a guy who is paid and can preform. 

 

Last year I would have been nodding in agreement at the underlined.  Not after the year Dak just had though.  He busted through what we thought his ceiling was.  By pretty much any measure you choose, Dak was a top five player last year.  90 PFF grade and second in the NFL in passing grade.  First in big time throws last year, and fourth best turnover worthy play grade.  Tied for third in the NFL with Lamar in AV.  Second in QBR by a sliver.  Second in passer rating.  Third in yardage. First in touchdowns.  Way more TDs than Jackson and Mahomes, way fewer turnovers than Mahomes and Allen.  Second team All Pro QB.  12 wins and first place in his division.  The Cowboys getting clowned in the wild card round overshadowed how individually dominant Dak was last year.

 

Dak's 2023 is a reminder that even the top guys in the NFL go year to year in performance, and that there isn't that much separation between QB1 and about QB9.  When the conditions surrounding them are right, any of those guys can dominate and lead a team to a one seed.  You've got to get a QB of that stature to truly compete with the teams who have these guys.  But once you do, then it's about having the right surrounding cast of players and coaches, healthy at the right time, to win in January.  As great as Patrick Mahomes is, he wasn't great last season.  He's not an unstoppable barrier.  He doesn't make it past Josh Allen in 2023 if Buffalo hadn't been down to their eighth string linebacker and if his defense didn't come together and play as a dominant unit in December.

 

The first step is getting a QB who swims in that pool.  Once you've got that, then you start playing chess with the big dogs who have those guys.  That's why all of the people who were talking about trading down and building the team up first were tripping.  If you don't have a QB, then you're not building ****.  You're just cycling through talent until you finally decide to start building for real.  The QB is the whole foundation of a long term build.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

 

The first step is getting a QB who swims in that pool.  Once you've got that, then you start playing chess with the big dogs who have those guys.  That's why all of the people who were talking about trading down and building the team up first were tripping.  If you don't have a QB, then you're not building ****.  You're just cycling through talent until you finally decide to start building for real.  The QB is the whole foundation of a long term build.

This 100 million %.

 

Without a QB there is no plan. You're just treading mediocrity.

 

I can't believe after the Rivera Era that we still think "build the team first" is a viable strategy.

[Est.1974]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

This 100 million %.

 

Without a QB there is no plan. You're just treading mediocrity.

 

I can't believe after the Rivera Era that we still think "build the team first" is a viable strategy.

I keep reading this, but how many people are really saying trade down and build the team first ?

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Vegas makes a ton of sense.  Minshew is only signed for two years.  I think they draft a RT at 13 (Fuaga or Latham) and trade up from the 2nd into the late 1st and grab Penix.

What does McGinn say about Drake?

 

OK its not of course McGinn's personal opinion but different personnel guys he talked to.  And this was round 1, he will do round 2 in deeper detail with more scouts usually a week before the draft.

 

For Maye pretty similar to the mix of the mock drafters, a little of everything but more positive than negative

 

I recall the best line was QBs like Maye win Superbowls, one mentoned he reminds him of Elway, one said he's a can't miss QB, another was frustrated by his inconsistency who said he had some Drew Lock in him

 

For McCarthy it was more lukewarm than I expected, I recall one thought he was good, others thought Nix was better and Rattler was better, another didn't think he belongs in the first round, another saw him as a game manager.

 

 

Edited March 21 by Skinsinparadise

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

46 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree. Love Penix as a guy later in the first. Somebody could really get a steal. I like Maye and Williams better. I’m not sure about Daniels. But, it wouldn’t surprise me if Penix became a big time player in the right situation. 
 

If I was Pittsburg, for instance, I would rather have taken a shot on Penix. Maybe Atlanta should draft him. Kirk can’t play forever. 

There is zero chance Pittsburgh goes QB after adding Wilson and Fields.

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

The more I think about it the more Maye makes the most sense. 
 

The trap teams fall into is having a QB that’s good enough that you have to pay like he’s top 5, but it’s not actually good enough to preform that way by himself. Dak is an example of one paid like it but can’t play. Mahomes is the obvious example of a guy who is paid and can preform. 
 

There is only one guy in the draft that has been asked to do it all by himself and actually succeeded at it. That’s something I value, I think, more than anything. He was THE guy. At some point if he is good enough he will have to the THE guy in the NFL because we won’t have enough money to pay him and everyone else. When I think of it like that it gets really obvious. 

I’ll counter… what did he succeed at? I know this is going to come across like I don’t like Maye… that isn’t the case.

 

And I agree that he carried the load by himself, essentially. But what is your measure of success here to say that he succeeded?

 

North Carolina was 9-5 and 8-5. Is that succeeding? Truth be told I could see the argument in the context that they didn’t have a whole lot going for them offensively, but that discounts some of their defenders. 
 

Sam Howell was 8-4 and 6-7 his final two years at UNC. So Maye was 17-10 and Howell was 14-11. There is a difference there, to be sure, but not necessarily a difference that makes Maye’s success rate look stellar.

 

Maye is a better prospect than Howell, and deserving of #2, but I wouldn’t necessarily say Maye was successful.

 

Especially considering the criteria of playing like a top 5 QB but not being good enough to carry a team. Right now we have no idea if Maye is Dak or Maye is Herbert or Maye is Josh Allen. 

 

Though, I do think staying at UNC instead of tucking tail and going elsewhere for the money is a major success in its own right. 
 

 

[srtman04]

I really, really, REALLY hope all this JJ McCarthy talk for us is just one huge smokescreen.    One thing about Adam Peters I can say for sure to this point....the man plays Chess,  not checkers.   I have a feeling we won't really know who he's going to take until it's announced at the podium on draft day.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I think Jayden Daniels has a quicker release, processes quicker, and is a better decision maker than Fields.  

 

I got more concerns about Daniels than Maye for reasons I've stated enough times on this thread.  He has some things to work on especially throwing off plaform, and throwing with anticipation.

 

But I am optimistic about Daniels prospects in the NFL.  Clean mechanics-quick release, good deep ball + electric runner.  I don't think he will be Fields Part 2.  But will see. 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

I really, really, REALLY hope all this JJ McCarthy talk for us is just one huge smokescreen.    One thing about Adam Peters I can say for sure to this point....the man plays Chess,  not checkers.   I have a feeling we won't really know who he's going to take until it's announced at the podium on draft day.  

 

There really isn't much McCarthy talk connected to this team.  A lot of Maye and Danels talk, be shocked if they don't take one of those 2 Qbs.

Edited March 21 by Skinsinparadise

[CapsSkins]

My RG3 PTSD is too strong to get excited about Daniels but IF he's the guy and he lasts a full season without getting injured or taking nasty hits, I'll be less anxious!

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

No. I wanna shoot for elite traits that can translate to the NFL. I don't want a Brock Purdy. Those guys aren't needle movers and represent the absolute worst place to be in: QB purgatory, which is exactly where the 9ers will be in a couple years after they're forced to pay him.

 

Go for a guy that has traits that could potentially have him as a franchise carrying QB. McCarthy isn't that. He won a national title throwing like 10 passes a game. He's a fine prospect, if you take him at like the end of the 1st or 2nd round on a team that's already good you should be happy. He's not a guy you take #2 overall. He's not a guy that will strap a team on his back and carry them for 3-5+ years.

 

I'm tired of drafting Patrick Ramseys and Jason Campbells and Dwayne Hasksinses(RIP). I wanna take a swing on a guy that can make Pro Bowls and All Pros and have us playing late season national televised games with home field advantage on the line every year for the next decade. McCarthy is not that guy.

I think you're a little harsh on Purdy. Dude was 1st in QBR in '23, and 5th in a shortened season worth of stats in '22. He's also top 5 to top 10 in nearly all the efficency deeper stats from '23 on player profiler. So far, he's been a mega elite QB in the NFL. The question is whether or not he has limitations as an athlete, in terms of size, what not that will permanently hamper him in bad weather conditions and against elite defenses. To this point that has only happened in a couple of high profile games late in the season. So far, he looks like a special QB who occasionally produces really disappointing performances, like anyone, there isn't evidence, yet, that he's anything less than damn good. 

 

McCarthy wishes he could produce at Purdy's level, if he did, he'd be a huge hit at the position. That being said, I dont think he's gonna get there, period. Maye's the better prospect, period, by a good stretch, but Maye himself will have to be pretty great, to catch Purdy. Purdy's been a top 5 passer through what, 30 career games? That's pretty insane.