The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

15 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

If we dont think JD and Maye are not “can’t miss” type of prospect and we are happy with Penix and McCarthy then I do like us trading back.

 

trade our pick to Minnesota  for their two 1st round this year and 1st in 2025 AND 1st in 2026.

 

I mean if we dont think JD or Maye is the next great QB then you would those future picks would be in the upper half of the draft.   Minnesota is probably the worse team in that division if Bears hit with Caleb Williams.

Trading back would give us another real shot at a QB in the future years with extra 1st round picks

If they don’t find something to like in the top 3 prospects then we aren’t getting a franchise QB under this regime and it’s already over but for the crying, no matter how competitive we get otherwise. You cannot expect better prospects than those three in any given year, in fact they’re usually worse, even at the top—and we aren’t usually at the top. You are never getting the #1 pick and the perfect dream prospect (and people even had problems with Luck, Lawrence, and Williams btw), this is as close as we’re getting and it took the overall absolute worst roster, coaching staff, and play calling in the league and a total organizational and locker room surrender to even miracle ourselves into #2. We’re extremely, unbelievably lucky to be in the position we’re in and the prospects are very good. And people are spitting in the face of our fortune. You’re not getting your eyes on better prospects in future years. So pick the best one and commit, and build around them. Trading back for worse prospects is not the answer. 

[DogofWar1]

34 minutes ago, gooseneck said:

I haven't been on this topic for a while.  Is everything resolved yet?

Yes, we determined as a group that our failure to trade for Kenny Pickett has doomed us to another decade of failure.

 

 

I need Adam Peters to make a burner Twitter account that tweets out cryptic things ala Jimmy Apples and periodically interacts with Peters' real account so people speculate it's Peters but no one is sure.  Just really make an ARG of the offseason for funsies.

Edited March 16 by DogofWar1

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, Jags said:

When you watch an evaluation of Maye like the one from Chris Simms -- which I personally thought was extreme but also see a lot of the things he refers to when he explains the ranking in detail -- what are your feelings on what he said? 

Let’s start with this: Chris Simms is a know nothing, attention whore with bad analysis and bad takes who is a numbskull moron who shouldn’t have a platform but does mostly because his father has has a platform for 30 years.  He looks at film from the lens if “how can I say something provocative” rather than “what is the right answer.”  He’s on the same level of draftnik idiot as Thor freaking moronic “I bet my reputation Malik Willis is a top 10 QB” Nystrom.  So.  I discard and actually go the opposite way on literally every one of his takes.  

 

After that, when I went through play by play the UNC vs. UVA, I saw a player with exceptional athletic traits, made NFL reads and throws.

 

Hes not a finished product and he has things to work on.  So does every QB.  
 

But his ceiling is, at a minimum. Justin Herbert, and maybe slightly higher because he might have more athletic ability than Herbert.

 

His floor, I dunno.  He could be terrible.  But Williams could be a diva and be terrible and Daniels could not make it out of the first quarter without been broken in 2. You never know.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, Conn said:

If they don’t find something to like in the top 3 prospects then we aren’t getting a franchise QB under this regime and it’s already over but for the crying, no matter how competitive we get otherwise. You cannot expect better prospects than those three in any given year, in fact they’re usually worse, even at the top—and we aren’t usually at the top. You are never getting the #1 pick and the perfect dream prospect (and people even had problems with Luck, Lawrence, and Williams btw), this is as close as we’re getting and it took the overall absolute worst roster, coaching staff, and play calling in the league and a total organizational and locker room surrender to even miracle ourselves into #2. We’re extremely, unbelievably lucky to be in the position we’re in and the prospects are very good. And people are spitting in the face of our fortune. You’re not getting your eyes on better prospects in future years. So pick the best one and commit, and build around them. Trading back for worse prospects is not the answer. 

Theres a quote from the 1995 movie “The American President” where one of Sydney Wade’s (Presidents girlfriend) friend tells her something like, “He’s attractive, the leader of the free world and an above average dancer.  Maybe we’re setting our standards a bit high?”

 

That quote has been rattling around in my head every time somebody says “Maybe they don’t like Williams/Maye/Daniels”

 

** I couldn’t find the exact quote because when you search for “the American president anything” you get mired in a whole lot of political crap about actual presidents. So that’s a guess on the quote based on my memory from seeing the movie 25 years ago.  Apologies if it’s not word for word.

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

He was talking about it as an edge quality, a tiebreaker. We all know that while there are Elway's and Marino's, there are far more elite historical QB's like Brees and Montana and Brady, who were fine, but not mega elite arms. It's a nice tiebreaker, like hints of mental make up, athleticism, pressure to sack ratio (a huge asset for Penix) etc. The key with an arm, is that it is good enough to address all the throws you need to make, after that, its all cherry and whip cream, he knows that, he's saying a gun or cannon is a nice extra piece to have, like escapability, mobility etc. My mental make up angle is if you can figure it out accurately (sometimes you can', sometimes you're not sure till they're in house). 

I got it and that's why I made the M5/hellcat reference. Obviously, every extra factor adds value, but numerous people were pointing to arm strength as it carried more weight than other types of icing. Here's Kurt talking about touch and why he liked Russ and Kirk coming out:

 

[Command The 414]

26 minutes ago, Conn said:

If they don’t find something to like in the top 3 prospects then we aren’t getting a franchise QB under this regime and it’s already over but for the crying, no matter how competitive we get otherwise.
 

 Trading back for worse prospects is not the answer. 

I Totally agree, if we go any lower then 3rd (swap w/Pats and get more picks and maybe a Christian Gonzalez 😝 too) we aren’t getting a franchise QB…

 

Bo Nix could probably be had at around 11-15 but no matter how high his ceiling he isn’t the franchise QB like the 3 headed Lawyer Firm Williams, Maye & Daniels are going to be imho, and McCarthy won’t be there past the GMen… your not getting a franchise QB in Spencer Rattler, Sam Hartman even Penix imho isn’t a franchise QB… 

 

If we don’t stay at the #2 then move up to the #1 and go get Williams, but I think and hope we stay at 2 and see where the chips fall… Maye or Daniels and call it a day and honestly no matter how they turn out bust or success at least they tried right?  Nothing beats a quitter but a try… you got to try 

Edited March 16 by Command The 414

[seantaylor=god]

This thread can be painful and then @Going Commando @Voice_of_Reason @Conn and others come through with Maye defense/ JD take downs that make me smile.

 

Bravo.

[NOLA2DC]

10 hours ago, Jags said:

 

Especially since his legs are made of wicker.

 

 

I've been going through as much video as I can find on both guys, and the thing that jumps out about Daniels to me that I've heard some analysts harp on is that he didn't attack the middle of the field very much.  He's a blast to watch and I wouldn't be bummed if we take him, but LSU's playcalling was definitely thin in that regard.

 

 

People who like to nitpick with stats often point out that running QBs with good tendencies (pursuit radar, willingness to slide and get out of bounds) statistically don't get hurt more often than other QBs.  Those tendencies aren't all that evident with Daniels though.  He takes hits, and he ragdolls because he weighs 14 pounds.  His college tendencies definitely won't fly in the NFL.  And I don't care what the stats say -- even if QBs that rely on their legs don't get hurt more often, that type of style doesn't weather injury well.  A QB with no calves and an ectomorphic build that thinks he can outrun the world is going to spend a lot of his life limping.

 

I hope I'm wrong and he's enough of a pure pocket passer that can weather a lost step or two, but I feel like I saw that movie before a time (McNabb) or two (RGMe).

McNabb was more of a passer than a runner. 11 seasons, 6 Pro Bowls, and a Super Bowl appearance sound like a pretty good career to me.  

[88Comrade2000]

Noone has any clue what they are really going to do.  Until we see them draft on draft day, we won't know.  They are keeping things close to the vest; so everything out there is just noise.

[seantaylor=god]

1 minute ago, NOLA2DC said:

McNabb was more of a passer than a runner. 11 seasons, 6 Pro Bowls, and a Super Bowl appearance sound like a pretty good career to me.  

Plays nothing like McNabb (or Russell) guys that ran around and made time to make throws. It’s no pressure, clean pocket, throws to wide open guys on the perimeter not in tight window, or escaping pressure eyes not downfield for throws and  running up the middle. I’ve seen the one highlight where he looks like he has the capability, so no need to link to that one throw.

[clskinsfan]

39 minutes ago, Jags said:

Chris Simms

He watched the three worst games from last year and didnt even touch Maye's 2022 tape. That is where I was as well. Until I spent some time watching him play in 2022. 

[Skins199021]

55 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I disagree. Maye has the far higher upside imo. I wont hate either one of them. But the tools god gave Maye are far superior to the ones he gave Daniels. Could Maye bust? Yep. But so could any of these guys. And Mayes potential upside is the reason I would make him the pick.

Tangibly why though? 
 

I’m saying Daniels because he without a doubt has way more speed than Maye 

 

if they are remotely in the same boat as passers at the next level then Daniels would be the higher upside guy (assuming health for each) 

 

it all Conjecture and projection how they will fair as passers in the NFL

 

in 2023 though it would be hard to

seriously convince someone that Maye was in some other class as a passer than Daniels in college last season.

 

Daniels, better team better competition 

 

Maye yeah no great team but was playing against personnel that were as bad or worse than his teammates 

 

I really wont have any reaction to either as the draft choice. There are arguments for each that yes are valid. 

win win situation for me with a preference, not some vendetta against one or the other 

[Jags]

3 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

McNabb was more of a passer than a runner. 11 seasons, 6 Pro Bowls, and a Super Bowl appearance sound like a pretty good career to me.  

 

Yeah, my point was we saw in a Redskins jersey what he looked like when he couldn't move anymore.  Even pure passers need that elusiveness and instinct to move around in the pocket.  Marino and Big Ben were deceptively elusive pocket passers that could extend plays big without running at all.  McNabb could run.  It was a big dimension of his game.  And when he lost that and his body couldn't do what it instinctively did his whole life when pressured, he was a fragment of his former self.  His game disintegrated.

 

And yeah, that happened after a fantastic career, but the same thing happened here with RG3 very early in his career, and again just recently with Chase Young.  When someone has that kind of freakish ability from infancy, sometimes they don't (and don't have to) develop the same skills and fundamentals as everyone else.  But then a couple injuries pile up, that elite first step goes away -- the thing that made them special -- and they go from hero to average overnight.  And it can happen just as easily in season 1 or 2 as it might in season 17.

 

You can't possibly know that Daniels could lose his mobility and still be a great pocket passer without it.  His body does something entirely different when pressured than a QB without that athleticism.  Learning how to do it differently would be like learning to walk again.  Not impossible, but very difficult.  His could easily be a brittle body in the NFL, and he has cavalier running tendencies.  Might not be a recipe for disaster, but whatever it is won't taste good or go down easy...

[DogofWar1]

Daniels is held back by his frame and arm.  If he drags his weight to 220 while maintaining speed, then he's got as high if not higher potential.

 

But his arm is also not as strong.  It's......fine.....but as I found out by once telling my wife something she was wearing looked fine, fine is bad.  It's merely above average for college, and above average in college is below average in the NFL.  I trust Daniels to make a beautiful 25 yard fade pass into a bucket.  I don't necessarily trust him to rifle a ball into a 2 foot wide space within a .3 second time window 12 yards down the field.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Number 44]

31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Theres a quote from the 1995 movie “The American President” where one of Sydney Wade’s (Presidents girlfriend) friend tells her something like, “He’s attractive, the leader of the free world and an above average dancer.  Maybe we’re setting our standards a bit high?”

 

That quote has been rattling around in my head every time somebody says “Maybe they don’t like Williams/Maye/Daniels”

 

** I couldn’t find the exact quote because when you search for “the American president anything” you get mired in a whole lot of political crap about actual presidents. So that’s a guess on the quote based on my memory from seeing the movie 25 years ago.  Apologies if it’s not word for word.

• Sydney Ellen Wade: [in Beth's apartment] Why did I have to kiss him?
• Beth Wade: You kissed him? You didn't tell me that. Where did you kiss him?
• Sydney Ellen Wade: On the mouth.
• Beth Wade: Where in the White House?
• Sydney Ellen Wade: The dish room.
• Beth Wade: The dish room?
• Sydney Ellen Wade: The... China Room.
• Beth Wade: And then what happened?
• Sydney Ellen Wade: He had to go and attack Libya.
• Beth Wade: It's always something.
• Sydney Ellen Wade: Yeah... I gotta nip this in the bud. This has catastrophe written all over it.
• Beth Wade: In what language? Sydney, the man is the leader of the free world. He's brilliant, funny, handsome. He's an above-average dancer. Isn't it possible our standards are just a tad high?

[Voice_of_Reason]

26 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

This thread can be painful and then @Going Commando @Voice_of_Reason @Conn and others come through with Maye defense/ JD take downs that make me smile.

 

Bravo.

I want to be clear.  I like both of them and could see us taking either and I wouldn’t be mad.

 

I think it’s Maye.  But I’m not going to be surprised if it’s Daniel’s.  He’s a unique, special talent.  
 

I might counter-weight some of the undue stupidity from the draftnik idiots who are exceptionally high on Daniel’s.  
 

But I like both.  

[sjinhan]

40 minutes ago, Conn said:

 We’re extremely, unbelievably lucky to be in the position we’re in and the prospects are very good. And people are spitting in the face of our fortune. You’re not getting your eyes on better prospects in future years. So pick the best one and commit, and build around them. Trading back for worse prospects is not the answer. 

 I think picking a QB this high with a subpar team really weigh the odds against you.  I firmly believe that your chance of hitting on your 1st round QB pick is significantly higher when you have a strong team surrounding the QB.  Since I take your argument as, it is rare of be picking this high (Top 5) that we need to draft a highly rated QB.  Well look through this list of QBs taken since 2000... The QBs taken outside top 5 or top 10 into a strong team with strong coaching staff have better chance to realize his full potential versus a QB taken in top 5 but into a crappy team with potentially crappy coaching staff.  

 

As much as we all love Mahomes.... I attribute significant portion of his success is due to him being drafted into a well balanced KC Chiefs team lead by Andy Reid.  Trust me if Mahomes would have been drafted at #2 to the Bears with Nagy and Mitchell Trubisky was drafted at #10 to the Chiefs with Reid.  I give it better than 50% chance that Trubisky would have had a better career than Mahomes.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-ranking-every-quarterback-class-since-2000

[clskinsfan]

13 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

if they are remotely in the same boat as passers

They arent imo

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

but as I found out by once telling my wife something she was wearing looked fine, fine is bad. 

You’re alive with all your bits after telling your wife what she was wearing was “fine?”

 

You have a very understanding wife.  

[DiscoBob]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I want to be clear.  I like both of them and could see us taking either and I wouldn’t be mad.

 

I think it’s Maye.  But I’m not going to be surprised if it’s Daniel’s.  He’s a unique, special talent.  
 

I might counter-weight some of the undue stupidity from the draftnik idiots who are exceptionally high on Daniel’s.  
 

But I like both.  

 

I bet most of the fanbase is in this category, despite the loud ones

 

Preference for one, but an understanding that either represents the best option we've had in a LONG time!

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

 I think picking a QB this high with a subpar team really weigh the odds against you.  I firmly believe that your chance of hitting on your 1st round QB pick is significantly higher when you have a strong team surrounding the QB.  Since I take your argument as, it is rare of be picking this high (Top 5) that we need to draft a highly rated QB.  Well look through this list of QBs taken since 2000... The QBs taken outside top 5 or top 10 into a strong team with strong coaching staff have better chance to realize his full potential versus a QB taken in top 5 but into a crappy team with potentially crappy coaching staff.  

 

As much as we all love Mahomes.... I attribute significant portion of his success is due to him being drafted into a well balanced KC Chiefs team lead by Andy Reid.  Trust me if Mahomes would have been drafted at #2 to the Bears with Nagy and Mitchell Trubisky was drafted at #10 to the Chiefs with Reid.  I give it better than 50% chance that Trubisky would have had a better career than Mahomes.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-ranking-every-quarterback-class-since-2000

I am not sure about that. Trubisky is lacking in the head. Something you cant coach. 

[DogofWar1]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

You’re alive with all your bits after telling your wife what she was wearing was “fine?”

 

You have a very understanding wife.  

Well she was girlfriend at the time.  But I have not made that mistake again.

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

it all Conjecture and projection how they will fair as passers in the NFL

I disagree with this strictly from the perspective there are throws available to Maye which are not available to Daniels which are NFL staple throws.  

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

I watched a show with DJ this morning and he does think we might be trading back. I just dont see it. You signed a massive amount of vets to fill the roster and you are going to go into the season with Mariota as your starter after doing that?

It doesn't make any sense. Trading away Howell sealed the deal and there never should have been any doubt anyways - this team is going QB at #2.

 

Don't really get why everyone assumes Daniels when that dude hasn't even weighed in yet. Will probably know more after the pro days