The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FootballZombie]

4 hours ago, BBLXIX said:

Interesting thread

 

Those are the exact same problem's everyone dings Maye with and you don't see them calling him a non-starting caliber NFL QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Conn said:

Other than both being 6’4” I struggle to see the comparison. Like at all. They’re almost polar opposites. 

 

Rosen was renowned for his excellent footwork and mechanics, but was a statue that ran close to a 5.0 40 and had an average arm. He struggled ripping passes down the seam and sucked at the deep ball. He was not physically talented at all. 

 

Maye is a 4.6 guy at the least, has an incredible arm, and his biggest weakness is arguably his sloppy footwork—that’s when his accuracy suffers. Otherwise, his superpower is layering in throws over the middle of the field at the second and third levels. He’s athletic as hell. 
 

Almost couldn’t be more different.

 

Yeah I recall like yestrday the sell on Josh Rosen was as an ex-tennis player his footwork was a thing of beauty.  I thought "meh" when he was on the trading market after watching a bunch of games because he reminded me of Darnod in the sense that I gather he didn't see the field-process well because his decision making was IMO atrocious.

 

I am not surprised by it anymore but I've given up on having fans all embracing any QB.  Everyone has some critics.  Just comes with the turf.  Makes sense you got hundreds of thousands of people who like to talk football, they aren't all going to agree on any prospect. 

 

Rivera sadly used this excuse for why he didn't like Herbert or Tua in the draft, he talked about on Sheehan that there wasn't consensus love about either player.  Weird to hear it from Ron becuase I'd gather FOs shouldn't care about full consensus slam dunk backing of any QB.  It would be one thing if Ron said it wasn't the consensus in the building but he talked about it in the context of the league.  How often does the league have consensus about any college QB?  If teams relied on that, than KC for example wouldn't be enjoying SBs now.

Edited February 18 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

[KDawg]

My initial read on all three top guys were that they were all overrated to an extent. All have obvious talents, obvious strengths and obvious weaknesses. All have NFL QB high end potential and all have bust potential.

 

I haven’t wavered much on that. I don’t really have one I want more than the others. 
 

I have become increasingly interested in McCarthy. 
 

He is like a combo of the three other guys, he’s missing some of their absurd strengths but he’s missing their absurd weaknesses. 
 

He can run, throw, operate under center, from the gun. He’s really well rounded and makes good decisions. Doesn’t have any character concerns that we have seen. Mechanically sound.

[mhd24]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

My initial read on all three top guys were that they were all overrated to an extent. All have obvious talents, obvious strengths and obvious weaknesses. All have NFL QB high end potential and all have bust potential.

 

I haven’t wavered much on that. I don’t really have one I want more than the others. 
 

I have become increasingly interested in McCarthy. 
 

He is like a combo of the three other guys, he’s missing some of their absurd strengths but he’s missing their absurd weaknesses. 
 

He can run, throw, operate under center, from the gun. He’s really well rounded and makes good decisions. Doesn’t have any character concerns that we have seen. Mechanically sound.

 

I think JJ goes 8 to Atlanta.

[RandyHolt]

Can i predict all 3 top rated QBs will bust. Half joking aside it's not just about them as we all know.  While modern OCs FINALLY figured out to cater to their QBs and not the QB to their static dated dusty old played out playbooks, its still a struggle vs the modern day aggressive Spag DefensesTM that have figured out to dial up a confusing blitz at critical times in games. I admit I am jaded from being told who the best QB is in a draft and it being false so often so I just use my own eyes like most here. That all said I will likely never think a QB under 6'1" is the best QB available. Defenders are so freakishly tall and ends targeted now only if they are long, it simply does not bode well for the Caleb's of the world.

 

QBs of this era have to have size and be able to move, oh and throw on the move. 

Edited February 18 by RandyHolt

[DWinzit]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

My initial read on all three top guys were that they were all overrated to an extent. All have obvious talents, obvious strengths and obvious weaknesses. All have NFL QB high end potential and all have bust potential.

 

I haven’t wavered much on that. I don’t really have one I want more than the others. 
 

I have become increasingly interested in McCarthy. 
 

He is like a combo of the three other guys, he’s missing some of their absurd strengths but he’s missing their absurd weaknesses. 
 

He can run, throw, operate under center, from the gun. He’s really well rounded and makes good decisions. Doesn’t have any character concerns that we have seen. Mechanically sound.

I can't understand how anyone an argue this take. He seems like a solid, not flashy QB. 

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I can't understand how anyone an argue this take. He seems like a solid, not flashy QB. 

I’m starting to really wrap my head around how we can draft McCarthy. 2 feels really, really rich for him and like a reach. But a trade back is really risky if he’s the guy you want.

 

You almost would have to take him at 2, I think. 
 

If it pans out that’s no big deal of course. But in this moment, February 2024, that feels really, really rich. 

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m starting to really wrap my head around how we can draft McCarthy. 2 feels really, really rich for him and like a reach. But a trade back is really risky if he’s the guy you want.

 

You almost would have to take him at 2, I think. 
 

If it pans out that’s no big deal of course. But in this moment, February 2024, that feels really, really rich. 

Serious question: When is the last time a QB with ~700 pass attempts or less was drafted in the top 3 and turned into a successful NFL QB?

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Serious question: When is the last time a QB with ~700 pass attempts or less was drafted in the top 3 and turned into a successful NFL QB?

Who cares.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Who cares.

Ok… When would you start caring? 500 attempts? 300 attempts? 100? 10?

[ThatNFLChick]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m starting to really wrap my head around how we can draft McCarthy. 2 feels really, really rich for him and like a reach. But a trade back is really risky if he’s the guy you want.

 

You almost would have to take him at 2, I think. 
 

If it pans out that’s no big deal of course. But in this moment, February 2024, that feels really, really rich. 

 

This just feels like fatigue from the Maye vs Daniels conversation. 

 

I am not opposed to McCarthy in a trade down situation but I absolutely am not on board with drafting him at 2. 

[DazedSkinsfan]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m starting to really wrap my head around how we can draft McCarthy. 2 feels really, really rich for him and like a reach. But a trade back is really risky if he’s the guy you want.

 

You almost would have to take him at 2, I think. 
 

If it pans out that’s no big deal of course. But in this moment, February 2024, that feels really, really rich. 

Which current or former QB would you compare JJ too?? I see some hints of Romo, would that be a safe comparison??

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Ok… When would you start caring? 500 attempts? 300 attempts? 100? 10?

 

Kyler Murray 519

Baker Mayfield 1026

Caleb Williams 735

Jayden Daniels 953 (5 years)

Drake Maye 952

Josh Rosen 1170

Sam Darnold 846

Trey Lance 318

Josh Allen 649

JJ McCarthy 713 (3 years)

 

I’m not sure where you got your numbers. 

 

7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

This just feels like fatigue from the Maye vs Daniels conversation. 

 

I am not opposed to McCarthy in a trade down situation but I absolutely am not on board with drafting him at 2. 

Isnt that what I just said above? 

Edited February 18 by KDawg

[clskinsfan]

11 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

The more I hear, the less I'm sold on Caleb Williams

I am completely sold on him. And I pray to god Chicago takes Maye first because of it. Getting Caleb Williams without having to give up any draft resources would be a coup.

[KDawg]

Just now, DazedSkinsfan said:

Which current or former QB would you compare JJ too?? I see some hints of Romo, would that be a safe comparison??

Good question. I don’t know. He doesn’t, really? 
 

I read once that he was a mix of Zach Wilson with mobility but Kirk Cousins with accuracy and arm.

 

That kind of makes sense.

[clskinsfan]

9 hours ago, BBLXIX said:

Interesting thread

Everything Drake Maye has shown inconsistency with is fixable. The footwork and accuracy thing go hand in hand. I saw the same issues on his tape. He gets his feet crossed up in the pocket quite often. And it tends to make him sail a few balls. But you cant coach size and arm strength. And Maye has both of those at a prototypical level.

[MartinC]

9 hours ago, BBLXIX said:

Interesting thread

I think you can absolutely question Maye for decision making, footwork and short accuracy. 
 

Anyone saying he struggles with off platform throws doesn’t know what they are looking at. If anything he sometimes throws off platform when he doesn’t need to! And he throws dimes while doing so.

[KDawg]

Just now, MartinC said:

I think you can absolutely question Maye for decision making, footwork and short accuracy. 
 

Anyone saying he struggles with off platform throws doesn’t know what they are looking at. If anything he sometimes throws off platform when he doesn’t need to! And he throws dimes while doing so.

It’s like they all watch Williams film and Mahomes film and think throwing off platform is running side to side and throwing a laser late to a scramble drill receiver.

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Kyler Murray 519

Baker Mayfield 1026

Caleb Williams 735

Jayden Daniels 953 (5 years)

Drake Maye 952

Josh Rosen 1170

Sam Darnold 846

Trey Lance 318

Josh Allen 649

JJ McCarthy 713 (3 years)

 

I’m not sure where you got your numbers.  

So really the only QBs who had the same or less pass attempts than him were all known as legit dual threat QBs who had a lot more rushing attempts than him. 
 

I like McCarthy, but his sample size worries me. I don’t think I’d draft him in the top 3.

[ThatNFLChick]

10 hours ago, BBLXIX said:

Interesting thread

 

These are some of the issues I saw too and partly why I have him 3 because the issues can be fixable (never a guarantee) but IMO he needs to sit. 

 

I have seen "Maye can't read a defense" which ties into decision making and I agree, he makes some head scratching choices verse the looks but I don't know how much you can ding him on that when he plays in a simple system that says you don't need to know how to read a defense. Pure progression is the same regardless so it doesn't matter what the defense is doing. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

 

I think JJ goes 8 to Atlanta.

Not if Washington gets him at 2.

 

[Est.1974]

Said previously, plenty to like about JJ, it’s where you pick him. Likely have to get him at 4 or 5 IMO.
 

I like Nix as well to be honest. 
 

Try and get Caleb first. Then move onto plan B.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

So really the only QBs who had the same or less pass attempts than him were all known as legit dual threat QBs who had a lot more rushing attempts than him. 
 

I like McCarthy, but his sample size worries me. I don’t think I’d draft him in the top 3.

He has more pass attempts per season than Daniels…

[MartinC]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

So really the only QBs who had the same or less pass attempts than him were all known as legit dual threat QBs who had a lot more rushing attempts than him. 
 

I like McCarthy, but his sample size worries me. I don’t think I’d draft him in the top 3.

I’m probably an outlier but I wouldn’t draft him in the first round. He can probably be an NFL starter in a run heavy low pass volume offense and maybe have some good years - but he’s not a guy I think that can elevate an offense. 
 

Hes probably somewhere on the Daniel Jones to Ryan Tannehill scale. 

 

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Pure progression is the same regardless so it doesn't matter what the defense is doing. 

One of my concerns about Kingsbury is he’s used pure progression in the past. I’m not a fan of it - I hope that’s one of the things he’s evolved. 
 

Progression based on read is where you need to be IMO.