The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, NOLA2DC said:

I saw it yesterday, and I get it. However, the thing about Caleb is that he's been the consensus #1 for almost two years. I can honestly say I never heard of Maye before this year so I didn't really buy the could have been #1 talk.  Daniels is the guy who has shot up the boards but I really don't see him going where Klatt slotted him.  In terms of Caleb, the question is can he live up to the hype. It's lying season, so I don't really believe anything outside of the # 1 pick. The McCarthy hype train sounds like Zach Wilson 2.0. 

 

Probably because he's a R-So. He had a big freshman year and went into this season as the clear cut #2 to Caleb being #1.

[Est.1974]

38 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

Is Maye your guy?  What are you not seeing?  Would you like him more at a lower pick or do you think he's just not going to pan out as a franchise QB?    

I’d say I’m Williams/Daniels, but with the reservations noted.

 

Maye isn’t my guy, I would probably like him more at a lower pick yes. I’d consider him the very safe pick. However, I’m not sure I want the safe pick…..

[Ghost of]

21 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

JJ is a poor man’s Daniel Jones. Whatever GM is dumb enough to draft him the first round is likely going to get fired in the next 3-4 years lol

Yes, I remember when Daniel Jones, in the Rose Bowl vs. Alabama, made a one handed grab, identified Dallas Turner, scuttled backwards, then threw a thirty yard pass while getting laid out by Dallas Turner. Daniel Jones also won two different HS titles (one state, one national) while being a five star recruit and then won a national title while making a ton of plays (while injured) to win games vs the top defenses in the country.

 

What a goofy take dude. Hell, he could be worse as a pro than Daniel Jones but it's not from anything you're identifying with your Daniels-colored lenses.

Edited February 15 by Ghost of

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’d say I’m Williams/Daniels, but with the reservations noted.

 

Maye isn’t my guy, I would probably like him more at a lower pick yes. I’d consider him the very safe pick. However, I’m not sure I want the safe pick…..

I can appreciate your thoughts on swinging for the fence. You say Maye is the safe pick, that sure sounds like he is worthy of pick 2 but you want to roll the dice on someone ranked slightly higher in Williams or lower in Daniels. Am I correct that is your thoughts?

[MartinC]

25 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’d say I’m Williams/Daniels, but with the reservations noted.

 

Maye isn’t my guy, I would probably like him more at a lower pick yes. I’d consider him the very safe pick. However, I’m not sure I want the safe pick…..

 

I dont think there is such a thing as a safe pick when you are taking a QB high in the draft - but I get you mean relative to other options. I certainly think Maye is a safer pick than Daniels but I dont think its night and day. He's not 'very safe' compared to Daniels IMO. I'm moving more and more towards my preference being on Maye as the #2 pick though.

 

Prototype size and arm strength, excellent mobility and running skills. Very good deep and intermediate from the pocket but can create out of scheme. Experience within a similar offense that we assume we will be running and been with coaches known to our coaching staff. Transition should be easier. He's got some footwork issues (as do a lot of College QBs - its a function of being in gun and so much RPO IMO) and his short accuracy can be inconsistent (which is likely mechanics). No such thing as a perfect prospect - but Maye ticks a lot of boxes for me.

[skinny21]

17 hours ago, Dark Acre said:

Why would anyone believe this?  If we decide to run it back with Howell, even with MHJ, I think teams would be looking to play us.  

Lol.  Probably no one?  As I said, highly doubtful they do anything but select a qb at 2, and the league will expect that to be the outcome.

 

To be clear though, I didn’t meaning to make it sound like the staff might leak out a bunch of lies in order to try to manipulate the draft.  Simply that I could see them (truthfully) pointing out Howell’s positives when asked how they feel about him - his arm talent, athleticism, intangibles, toughness, poor supporting cast, etc.  And I wouldn’t be shocked if they spoke very highly about both Maye and Daniels, but raved about MJII.  

 

And of course, this line of thinking stemmed in part from the fact that Howell has a strong familiarity with Kingsbury’s system (via Longo), and KK and Longo have a connection.  

 

Not sure I agree with your second point, even though it’s kind of besides my point.  Guess it depends on how someone views Howell.  With (what should hopefully be) vastly improved coaching, quality draft capital and tons of cap space, I’d be surprised if other teams just (essentially) pointed at Howell and laughed.  Maybe that’s just me.  

 

Overall, I don’t see ARI sweating either the chances of us taking MJII or another team trading up to take him.  I do wonder if NE might want to try to trade up to ensure they get their guy.  For example, if they have say Maye clearly ahead of Daniels, but we seem to have them as more of a coin toss.  Unlikely, but maybe an outside chance of them trying to swap picks with us.

[skinny21]

40 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’d say I’m Williams/Daniels, but with the reservations noted.

 

Maye isn’t my guy, I would probably like him more at a lower pick yes. I’d consider him the very safe pick. However, I’m not sure I want the safe pick…..

I’m curious how much film you’ve watched of Maye.  I’ve watched almost zilch, so I’m not asking because I think you’re wrong, just from my own experience I watched two highlight reels of his that were vastly different.  After the first, my thought was “I don’t really get the hype” (he looked like Will Grier 2.0 to me), but the second was a much better illustration of why people are high on him.  Surprised me that 2 highlight reels could be so disparate.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Sam Howell is just 23 years old and is about to be coached by a much more focused coaching staff who won't put nearly as much pressure on him as the previous regime did. I could see his career playing out similar to Baker Mayfield's where he takes a step back before moving forward. I love the toughness of Howell; if he's as mentally tough as he is physically I think he'll make it in the NFL for someone. I hope our staff sees something in him and coaches him up as a real asset be it as a backup or starter somewhere down the road. Sam can sling it and run, just needs to learn and grow into better decisions given more support. 

Mayfield was an OROY and won a playoff game on the road for the freaking Browns. Howell hasn't shown anything close to that level of play. At best he's a Gardner Minshew type. Really good backup but too erratic and low upside to be a high end consistent starter.

38 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I dont think there is such a thing as a safe pick when you are taking a QB high in the draft - but I get you mean relative to other options. I certainly think Maye is a safer pick than Daniels but I dont think its night and day. He's not 'very safe' compared to Daniels IMO. I'm moving more and more towards my preference being on Maye as the #2 pick though.

 

Prototype size and arm strength, excellent mobility and running skills. Very good deep and intermediate from the pocket but can create out of scheme. Experience within a similar offense that we assume we will be running and been with coaches known to our coaching staff. Transition should be easier. He's got some footwork issues (as do a lot of College QBs - its a function of being in gun and so much RPO IMO) and his short accuracy can be inconsistent (which is likely mechanics). No such thing as a perfect prospect - but Maye ticks a lot of boxes for me.

Realistically Maye is as good a QB prospect as you're gonna get. If you can't get excited about a guy like him then I don't know who can excite you. I can understand if you prefer Daniels(who certainly has exciting qualities of his own)but to completely disregard Maye as some low upside Kenny Pickett-type QB is just foolish.

[NOLA2DC]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Mayfield was an OROY and won a playoff game on the road for the freaking Browns. Howell hasn't shown anything close to that level of play. At best he's a Gardner Minshew type. Really good backup but too erratic and low upside to be a high end consistent starter.

Baker was a 1st round pick; Howell is okay for where we picked him. I'm fine as long as we don't reach or trade up. I don't want to fall into some Zach Wilson/Mitch Tribstchy trap. I get the feeling that people feel like Maye is a safer pick than Daniels, which is cool. If Danieles turns into the next LJ, we'll be sick. No one wants to be the team that let LJ, Mahomes, or Brees slide, and picking second, I don't think we have to worry about that.   

[Koolblue13]

Maye at two is perfect. He's an undisputed 1rst overall in almost every draft. Herbert, Allen, Rothlesberger, whatever comparison he gets is fine with me. His floor is high enough to be the kind of QB that can get you to the SB any given year. 

 

I'm super excited about having a QB to build around finally and I love a big pocket QB, with wheels.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Baker was a 1st round pick; Howell is okay for where we picked him. I'm fine as long as we don't reach or trade up. I don't want to fall into some Zach Wilson/Mitch Tribstchy trap. I get the feeling that people feel like Maye is a safer pick than Daniels, which is cool. If Danieles turns into the next LJ, we'll be sick. No one wants to be the team that let LJ, Mahomes, or Brees slide, and picking second, I don't think we have to worry about that.   

I don't think any of the Big 3 are Wilson/Trebisky. Trebisky was a one year wonder and was universally considered a reach pick by the Bears. Wilson benefitted from the Covid year throwing off evaluation and he lit up playing crap competition and was also a one year wonder type. Both Williams and Maye have multiple years of productive play and Daniels had an incredible final season and has shown really good growth.

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Maye at two is perfect. He's an undisputed 1rst overall in almost every draft. Herbert, Allen, Rothlesberger, whatever comparison he gets is fine with me. His floor is high enough to be the kind of QB that can get you to the SB any given year. 

 

I'm super excited about having a QB to build around finally and I love a big pocket QB, with wheels.

We're so incredibly lucky to have gotten the #2 pick in a draft that has 2 if not 3 legitimate blue chip QB prospects. The last time we were in this position was 2020 where we passed up on multiple franchise QBs. Absolutely cannot make that mistake again.

 

Gotta at least thank Ron for sucking at the right time.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think any of the Big 3 are Wilson/Trebisky. Trebisky was a one year wonder and was universally considered a reach pick by the Bears. Wilson benefitted from the Covid year throwing off evaluation and he lit up playing crap competition and was also a one year wonder type. Both Williams and Maye have multiple years of productive play and Daniels had an incredible final season and has shown really good growth.

We're so incredibly lucky to have gotten the #2 pick in a draft that has 2 if not 3 legitimate blue chip QB prospects. The last time we were in this position was 2020 where we passed up on multiple franchise QBs. Absolutely cannot make that mistake again.

 

Gotta at least thank Ron for sucking at the right time.

It really did come together for us the second halfof the year. If we had our annual BS run to end the year, we could have very easily been sitting outside the top 10 with only a couple wins and some of the breaks that went our way, not happening.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It really did come together for us the second halfof the year. If we had our annual BS run to end the year, we could have very easily been sitting outside the top 10 with only a couple wins and some of the breaks that went our way, not happening.

That Jet loss was so huge. Wouldn't we be picking like 5th or something if we won that game? Everyone on our defense should be given a bonus for giving up that final FG and the Jets K should be invited to our parade after Maye or Daniels leads us to a Lombardi in the next 5 years.

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Realistically Maye is as good a QB prospect as you're gonna get. If you can't get excited about a guy like him then I don't know who can excite you. I can understand if you prefer Daniels(who certainly has exciting qualities of his own)but to completely disregard Maye as some low upside Kenny Pickett-type QB is just foolish.

 

Yeah that's something I find weird...this idea that Maye somehow doesn't have big upside. I guess it's because he won't run a 4.4 40 or something?

 

Upside is about traits and usually when you hear about limited or low upside in a QB prospect, it generally means the guy has limited traits/physical abilities. Maybe he's small, or has a mediocre arm, isn't mobile, etc.

 

Maye is 6'4 230 with a huge arm, a reportedly ~4.6 40 time with great athleticism for his size and the ability to break the pocket and use his legs to extend plays or run, can throw off platform, etc. I really don't see how his upside is questioned.

 

Obviously Daniels has a ton of upside too, but IMO the idea that one is high upside and the other isn't is just untrue.

Edited February 15 by mistertim

[Koolblue13]

I think all three QBs have high glass ceilings, but Mayes floor is certainly the highest.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

I can appreciate your thoughts on swinging for the fence. You say Maye is the safe pick, that sure sounds like he is worthy of pick 2 but you want to roll the dice on someone ranked slightly higher in Williams or lower in Daniels. Am I correct that is your thoughts?

I have Williams at #1 and Daniels at #2. Maye a close third. 

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

I dont think there is such a thing as a safe pick when you are taking a QB high in the draft - but I get you mean relative to other options. I certainly think Maye is a safer pick than Daniels but I dont think it’s night and day. He's not 'very safe' compared to Daniels IMO. 

Yeah correct, that’s where I’m at.

[Warhead36]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think all three QBs have high glass ceilings, but Mayes floor is certainly the highest.

To me what gives Maye the edge is that his style of play appears most sustainable for modern NFL success. I could see him having a 15 year career. He's the perfect combo of pocket passing ability with enough athleticism/mobility to make plays when things break down.

 

Of course nothing is guaranteed. He could turn into a mental midget when the lights turn bright while Williams and Daniels experience in big games turn them into stars.

[Est.1974]

53 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’m curious how much film you’ve watched of Maye.  I’ve watched almost zilch, so I’m not asking because I think you’re wrong, just from my own experience I watched two highlight reels of his that were vastly different.  After the first, my thought was “I don’t really get the hype” (he looked like Will Grier 2.0 to me), but the second was a much better illustration of why people are high on him.  Surprised me that 2 highlight reels could be so disparate.

I’ve casually watched ‘highlights’ of Williams, Daniels, Maye, JJ and Nix in equal measures. Just the usual handful of YouTube reels out there. 
 

Nothing too scientific from me, just a simple eye test and gut feeling on what I’m seeing. Far from intelligent analysis..

 

And re Maye, I think I’m still at the ‘I don’t get the hype’ stage. I get Daniel Jones type vibes. I think he’s worthy of a high pick, I’m just wary at #2. There something all a bit uninspiring to me, personally. 
 

But if we take him, then yeah I’m all in. So be it.

44 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If you can't get excited about a guy like him then I don't know who can excite you.

Daniels at #2 is the counter to that isn’t it.

[Warhead36]

The only thing Maye has in common with Daniel Jones is the conference he played in.

 

Jones was a super reach and the Giants were universally mocked for picking him that high and he's turned into nothing but an average at best QB.

 

Maye has been considered a top 2 QB prospect for two years and could go #1 and it'd be a legitimate argument and would go #1 in many other draft years.

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The only thing Maye has in common with Daniel Jones is the conference he played in.

 

Jones was a super reach and the Giants were universally mocked for picking him that high and he's turned into nothing but an average at best QB.

 

Maye has been considered a top 2 QB prospect for two years and could go #1 and it'd be a legitimate argument and would go #1 in many other draft years.

You get too defensive in your support of Maye. We all quite literally have no idea how any of these prospects will pan out in the pros. It’s all noise for now based on personal takes.

 

The fact Maye is ranked so high doesn’t change my view on him, which is actually pretty high, just happens to be a a slight notch down from others on here.

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

You get too defensive in your support of Maye. We all quite literally have no idea how any of these prospects will pan out in the pros. It’s all noise for now based on personal takes.

 

The fact Maye is ranked so high doesn’t change my view on him, which is actually pretty high, just happens to be a a slight notch down from others on here.

I have no issue with detractors as long as they're within the realm of logic and reason. Just randomly comparing him to Daniel Jones makes 0 sense. Its like when Stephen A Smith called Dwayne Haskins a mobile, run first QB.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I have no issue with detractors as long as they're within the realm of logic and reason. Just randomly comparing him to Daniel Jones makes 0 sense. Its like when Stephen A Smith called Dwayne Haskins a mobile, run first QB.

Detractors  

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’ve casually watched ‘highlights’ of Williams, Daniels, Maye, JJ and Nix in equal measures. Just the usual handful of YouTube reels out there. 
 

Nothing too scientific from me, just a simple eye test and gut feeling on what I’m seeing. Far from intelligent analysis..

 

And re Maye, I think I’m still at the ‘I don’t get the hype’ stage. I get Daniel Jones type vibes. I think he’s worthy of a high pick, I’m just wary at #2. There something all a bit uninspiring to me, personally. 
 

But if we take him, then yeah I’m all in. So be it.

Daniels at #2 is the counter to that isn’t it.

 

If you are going purely on highlights, Daniels and Caleb will stick out more simply because Caleb making off platform throws are unreal and Daniels running is unreal.

 

But as a very strong critic of Daniel Jones before the draft -- the two as players stlyistically are almost opposites.  I didn't like Daniel's Duke tape because he was mostly a first level passer.  Master of making throws in the flat, hitting receivers in stride.  Had an average arm who didn't push the ball down the field and didn't like to make contested throws.  Super conservative.  Yet he made turnovers -- picks and fumbles.   I called him then Alex Smith but if Alex had a lot of turnovers.

 

Drake Maye's weakness IMO is Daniel Jones strength -- touch on first level throws.  Maye's strength was Jones weakness -- 2nd-3rd level throws, pushing the ball down the field.  the only similarity to me is they remind me of each other as runners.

Edited February 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim. 

 

He has a Bears beat reporter on his podcast.  Their take.

 

A.  Doesn't think the Bears trade the pick.  Among other reasons, the politics of passing over a QB picking that high two years in a row isn't something this FO can recover from if it blows up on them again

 

B.  On the off chance they budge on this it would have to be something crazy even for this team she expected it would be 3 first rounders and change

 

Listened to Keim just now on Finlay's show.

 

A. This #2 pick will definie this franchise -- joked about Peters starting with high stakes on that front

 

B.  They speculated like always you'll hear noise about anything being possible but in the end they take a QB with the #2 pick is what they expect

[mac8887]

I would debate barring injury that daniels floor is the highest. 2 years in a row he completed over 70% of his passes and most importantly, he doesn't turn the ball over. Both the high completion rate and the low turnover numbers equals high floor. The only somewhat valid argument I see that daniels floor is lowers than maye and williams is his slight build could lead to injury. I still don't fully agree with that because he has yet to suffer any significant injury and he had played a lot of football. 

 

I'd argue that maybe daniels ceiling is a little lower because his arm strength not as good as the other 2, but his speed could surely make up for that.

 

I hear people say that maye has the highest floor and then list his size as the reason. Not sure that those 2 equate. Mitch trubisky had great size and he was a bust. I'd like to hear some valid arguments as to why maye is the safer pick with I higher floor, while being less accurate and more turnover prone, while having to overcome his bad footwork.