The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Yep in total agreement. If were picking 3rd Id be thrilled at taking a shot at Daniels. At 2nd there is no way you take him over Maye unless Maye just completely bombs the interview process.

 

Yeah and I think no shot Maye bombs the interviews, from what I heard he should kill it on that front.

[Warhead36]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah and I think no shot Maye bombs the interviews, from what I heard he should kill it on that front.

Yep hes a workaholic and comes from a family of athletes so you know hes got killer competitiveness which AP will love. 

[The Consigliere]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

My question for those who want to completely punt at QB this draft is: wtf exactly are you looking for? There are no guarantees either way, but the big 3 this year are all legitimate blue chippers. Realistically youre not gonna be in a position to draft someone this good again for a long time if ever. 

Well it would be tank for '26, except their plan is spackling over QB, and building a great team around either a horrible thrower like Fields or an about to retire guy like Cousins, in which case, we're totally screwed no matter what we do. I think the core of it is that this is the perfect opportunity to trade down, if we actually had a QB, it really is, and we could build a mammoth team around our mystical QB, if we had one, and not being able to do that is crushing. But it is what it is, what people should be doing is celebrating two things:

#1 they finally tanked properly in November/December instead of winning pointless games and pulling away from access to the elite QB's like typically happens. 

#2 they finally tanked properly in a legit QB crop season (this isn't sucking in 1993, 1994, 2002, 2006, 2013, 2018, 2021 etc). We finally did it in a loaded class year for the first time since in decades. Now we should take advantage of it.  

 

 

[NOLA2DC]

16 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

I think the evaluators put less stock in numbers than we do.

 

I'd imagine it's more about watching film and seeing what they're physically capable of doing and then trying to project those traits to the nfl and then combine that evaluation with how smart are they, how football knowledgeable are they and what kind of person are they, do they inspire confidence in those around them, are they a good person off the field etc.

 

Numbers alone can be very misleading, put too much stock in them and you have the Colt Brennans of the world going in the first round.

 

I agree, and I won't act like I've watched a bunch of college tape. With both guys, Maye and Daniels, all I've seen are the stats and highlights. Has anyone posted the key game vids on the guys? I may be earlier in the thread and I missed it. 

[NOLA2DC]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep in total agreement. If were picking 3rd Id be thrilled at taking a shot at Daniels. At 2nd there is no way you take him over Maye unless Maye just completely bombs the interview process.

We face those guys four times a year. We aint beatin em with our QB taking off 10 times a game and getting killed.

That is a good point, but the idea is to evolve when he gets to the league. I don't want any QB running the bulk of the time. It sounds like some people have a preference in terms of the style of QB they like and usual comments directed at QBs like Daniels. I'm not claiming either guy will be the next great, but right now, it looks like Daniels flashes more.  

[FootballZombie]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

B.  throw off platform a lot more than he does now

 

Funny how Maye and Daniels are on opposite ends of the spectrum here.

 

One guy needs to open it up more. The other guy needs to dial it back.

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

 

If you're dead set against Maye and Daniels (which is insanity to me to begin with) and want to trade down, trade down take JJ and go from there, but you see, the trade down folks can't do that, because 90% of them want to trade down for something other than QB in which case we're beyond totally ------ then, because what do you get for QB? One of the horror show losers in the garbage '25 class? Trade for a crap vet like Fields or Cousins? None of those ideas make any sense at all, and if you take JJ later, you're not getting your OT or Bowers or MHjr, or Nabers in the trade down unless you decide we can somehow solve the 21st century version of the rubrik's cube of winning without a QB worth a ----. Good luck with that.

 

It's not a plan, it's a prayer. And it will go unanswered just like the previous 29 years of them. 

 

Agree, only way I'd back a trade down in real time is if they love McCarthy and are confident they can land him.   

 

Otherwise agree its insanity.  Reading some of the posts of the vocal minority whether here or on twitter who want to trade down.  Most of them are variations of these two points.

 

A.   Fear of a bust because not everyone loves the QBs.

 

My response.  No guts no glory.  Also it will NEVER happen where all fans and draft geeks will ALL back a QB in the draft.  People act like this is the first time.  it's not the first time.  It's always.  My favorite example of it here was i just mentioned Mahomes onceon the draft thread and it was made fun of.  There are too many fans and draft geeks out there for them all to think the same way about any QB.  So if we are waiting for consensus to pick a QB -- it will never happen.

 

B.  They want to punt on this.  Build the roster.  And go get the QB when you have everything else.

 

My response.  The QB is really really hard to get.  When you are drafting high you take that shot at the QB especially in a touted draft for QBs.  It's miles easier to find other positions.  We've had good rosters without the QB -- that simply equals mediocrity.   It's the ride we were on for some of the Gibbs 2 tenure and Jay and Ron tenure in particular.   It feels that some who tout this might like Rivera and Bruce more than they let on because it feels like their approach.  I don't mean that as a shot.  i know they are both punchlines but removing the punchline aspect of it -- they both seemed to believe to just be competititve -- 8-8 is miles better than 4-13. 

 

The idea it to get to that middle range and then hope for some breaks and sneak into the playoffs.    And maybe over time we will be one of the VERY lucky ones to find that later in the draft Brady or Purdy that comes along every 10 years or so in the draft for a team or two, so why not us?  For me that's nauseating because it recalls so many breaks that most teams never get.  But I can't argue that there isn't some logic to the go medium approach even if I don't like it personally. 

 

 

Edited February 10 by Skinsinparadise

[ST_DaGoat21]

2 hours ago, NOLA2DC said:

40-4 TD to int in the SEC is nothing to sleep on. vs. 23-9 for Maye in the ACC. I just don't see "it" with Maye; yes, he has the measurables. Also, I think Daniels has more experience as a starter than Maye.     

No offense, but those stats really don’t mean much to me.  If you go back and look through the SEC passing leaders the past few years you are going to see similar stats from guys like Bryce Young, Hendon Hooker, Kyle Trask, Mac Jones, Tua, and Joe Burrow.  I think we can all agree there is only one guy on that list that we would like to have on our team.  
 

Now compare that to the college stats of the QBs that Maye is constantly being compared to like Jordan Love, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, and Trevor Lawrence.  All of which played in “sub-par” conferences.

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Funny how Maye and Daniels are on opposite ends of the spectrum here.

 

One guy needs to open it up more. The other guy needs to dial it back.

 

Drake is interesting off platform.  He's really high variance.  It's some of his best work and some of his worst at the same time.  He doesn't aways align his feet-shoulder to the target on the move and his mechanics can be off.  But then he also has some killer throws off platform. 

 

Rewatching that South Carolina game.   You can see some of that,

 

Some stills below of a play where he'd flushed right, then left, then back right again and throws a perfect 30 yard pass.  Unbelievable.

 

IMO what has me sold on Drake is when you give him time to set his feet and his mechanics are smooth he's lethal.  The good thing about North Carolina he was tested without having a supporting cast.  Last year IMO he didn't have a legit #1 WR or TE and his protection was "meh"

 

Some like to for example kill him for the loss against Virginia because in their words a franchise QB should be able to transcend their supporting cast.  IMO that's nonsense.  Watching that game his receivers were atrocious. They weren't making plays for him and were dropping easy balls.  Maye can't catch the ball for his receivers...

 

 

Edited February 10 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Does Kingsbury's hire mean Washington could trade up for Williams?

Graziano: I have been cautioned by multiple people not to jump to conclusions about the Commanders' hire of former USC quarterbacks coach Kliff Kingsbury as it pertains to the Commanders' interest in USC quarterback Caleb Williams. Yes, there are those in the Commanders organization who are fascinated with the idea of drafting D.C. native Williams, even if that means trading up from No. 2 to No. 1 to get him. But they also recognize that if the Bears are set on taking Williams at No. 1, there might be nothing they can do about that.

The sources I've talked to point out that North Carolina's Drake Maye played in Phil Longo's offensive system in 2022, which is a version of the Air Raid that Kingsbury knows how to coach. They also point out that LSU's Jayden Daniels is a mobile quarterback and talented downfield thrower who could mesh well with Kingsbury, who has coached Kyler Murray and Mahomes. I would expect the Commanders to look into what it would take to draft Williams, but I'd caution against thinking they hired Kingsbury based on any belief or certainty that they were going to get him.

---

Could the Patriots trade their first-round pick?

Graziano: Sure, there has been a lot of talk about what will happen with the first and second picks of the 2024 draft, what the Bears and Commanders will do and where all the quarterbacks will end up. But I'm hearing a bit of buzz about the third pick, which belongs to the New England Patriots.

The Patriots also need a quarterback, but there are people around the league who believe they are open to trading the No. 3 selection, moving back in the draft and addressing the quarterback position in free agency. If the Pats do trade that pick -- which could be Daniels or Maye -- the two teams I'd keep an eye on are the Falcons (moving from the No. 8 spot) and the Vikings (moving from the No. 11 spot, assuming they don't bring back Cousins). Minnesota knows it eventually has to address the quarterback position long term, and the notion of bringing in Daniels to pair with their star LSU alum wideout Justin Jefferson has appeal to some in the organization.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/39478896/super-bowl-2024-week-latest-nfl-buzz-news-rumors-free-agency-trades-draft

[clskinsfan]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m not sold on Maye, persay. But I’m sold on Maye + Rookie Contract vs. Fields on a vet starter w/potential contract

Not to mention that I am not even sure Justin Fields is any better than Howell imo. If we were gonna sign one of either Fields or Howell long term I think I would sign Howell. At least he has played a full season and thrown at least 20 TDS in one. Fields have never had anything close to the season Howell just had. And I am not saying I want to stick with Sam. We are taking a QB at two. 

2 hours ago, NOLA2DC said:

40-4 TD to int in the SEC is nothing to sleep on. vs. 23-9 for Maye in the ACC. I just don't see "it" with Maye; yes, he has the measurables. Also, I think Daniels has more experience as a starter than Maye.     

Now compare what each had to work with on their teams.

[Rufus T Firefly]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, only way I'd back a trade down in real time is if they love McCarthy and are confident they can land him.   

I like McCarthy a lot more than most here, but I have to be completely out on Maye and Daniels to even consider it anyway. (I am out on Daniels, but not Maye)

 

And then yes, you bring up the other issue, which is where does he go? I think he goes higher than many think, but I still don't know what that means. Des it mean he goes top 20, or top 15, or does Atlanta take him at 8?

 

Teams that are going to deal the massive haul you want to move up into the top 3 really want to close that deal down earlier rather than later, and at that point you have much less of an idea where JJ would go  than you will alter. 

 

It's a hard situation to navigate. If you wanted to do it. 

[Commander202]

Wasn’t excited about Quinn but now I am.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I like McCarthy a lot more than most here, but I have to be completely out on Maye and Daniels to even consider it anyway. (I am out on Daniels, but not Maye)

 

And then yes, you bring up the other issue, which is where does he go? I think he goes higher than many think, but I still don't know what that means. Des it mean he goes top 20, or top 15, or does Atlanta take him at 8?

 

Teams that are going to deal the massive haul you want to move up into the top 3 really want to close that deal down earlier rather than later, and at that point you have much less of an idea where JJ would go  than you will alter. 

 

It's a hard situation to navigate. If you wanted to do it. 

 

Agree.  For starters, I am hardcore at staying at #2 and taking Maye.  I am ok with trading up for Caleb if they love him but i don't think the Bears are trading the pick.

 

But for those who say trade down, the only way I'd be good with it is if the brass is sold on McCarthy.  But to your point, and I've made similar points before, how do we know in a trade down McCarthy isn't already gone.  You got a bunch of QB hungry teams in this draft picking after us -- NE, NY, Raiders, Vikings, Atlanta, 

 

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

LOL. If I had a nickel for every time that gif or clip of Daniels getting hit from the Ole Miss game has been posted in this thread I would be rich. It honestly makes me think people are only watching Twitter clips because its the same two things posted over and over and over again out of a multiple game sample. 

 

One thing left out of the conversation is that LSU had an absolutely horrible defense this year. One of the worst in the SEC. Without Jayden Daniels there is absolutely no way that team wins as many games as they did. The constant pressure on the offense to score was absurd. When the conversation is about "having to put a team on their back" IMO only one QB did that consistently. Even the Ole Miss game (they lost but he put them in position to win, all Hilton had to do was catch the ball)

 

 

The Mizzou game is a good example:

 

And the Texas A&M game:

 

Edited February 10 by ThatNFLChick

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, ST_DaGoat21 said:

No offense, but those stats really don’t mean much to me.  If you go back and look through the SEC passing leaders the past few years you are going to see similar stats from guys like Bryce Young, Hendon Hooker, Kyle Trask, Mac Jones, Tua, and Joe Burrow.  I think we can all agree there is only one guy on that list that we would like to have on our team.  
 

Now compare that to the college stats of the QBs that Maye is constantly being compared to like Jordan Love, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, and Trevor Lawrence.  All of which played in “sub-par” conferences.

The Clemson team with Lawrence beat Bama for a national title and all evaluators look at how a player performs against elite talent. I wouldn't call the Pac 10 sub-par; it's still a Power 5 school. Herbert was a top 5 pick that turned out better than expected. I didn't say Maye wasn't a top prospect. Allen is a unicorn physically, and Love sat for 4 years.

It's a crap shoot, and I don't claim anyone can't miss it.  The ultimate question is what type of system you run and who you think fits best.  

[NOLA2DC]

59 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Not to mention that I am not even sure Justin Fields is any better than Howell imo. If we were gonna sign one of either Fields or Howell long term I think I would sign Howell. At least he has played a full season and thrown at least 20 TDS in one. Fields have never had anything close to the season Howell just had. And I am not saying I want to stick with Sam. We are taking a QB at two. 

Now compare what each had to work with on their teams.

That's not really a major point because the goal is to get any QB elite talent. Do you remember the LSU team Burrow won with? They had 2 future Pro Bowl receivers on that team (Jefferson and Chase). 

[clskinsfan]

23 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

LOL. If I had a nickel for every time that gif or clip of Daniels getting hit from the Ole Miss game has been posted in this thread I would be rich. It honestly makes me think people are only watching Twitter clips

You act like those are the only bad hits he took in college. He was pummeled repeatedly And has no idea how to protect himself. Not saying he cant learn how to do that. But he hasnt shown any interest in doing it all. And with his frail frame thats not gonna work in the NFL. I have gone back and watched a lot more film on Daniels since some of the recent mocks have us taking him at two. I still dont see it. He is a good player. But his arm is suspect and he was saved repeatedly by outstanding WR play. And his body is not just concerning. It is a serious problem at the next level imo. He has no ability to throw to the opposite hash at all. He just doesnt have the arm to risk it reliably. Again, I wouldnt necessarily hate Daniels at 3 if both Caleb and Maye are gone. But I cant stand him at 2.

 

Edited February 10 by clskinsfan

[clskinsfan]

16 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

That's not really a major point because the goal is to get any QB elite talent. Do you remember the LSU team Burrow won with? They had 2 future Pro Bowl receivers on that team (Jefferson and Chase). 

So you dont think having an elite OL and WR's helped Daniels at all. Got it. I guess you dont think Maye and Williams having some of the worst Ol's and WR's in college football hurt them either.....Solid argument. 

[ThatNFLChick]

27 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

You act like those are the only bad hits he took in college. He was pummeled repeatedly And has no idea how to protect himself. Not saying he cant learn how to do that. But he hasnt shown any interest in doing it all. And with his frail frame thats not gonna work in the NFL. I have gone back and watched a lot more film on Daniels since some of the recent mocks have us taking him at two. I still dont see it. He is a good player. But his arm is suspect and he was saved repeatedly by outstanding WR play. And his body is not just concerning. It is a serious problem at the next level imo. He has no ability to throw to the opposite hash at all. He just doesnt have the arm to risk it reliably. Again, I wouldnt necessarily hate Daniels at 3 if both Caleb and Maye are gone. But I cant stand him at 2.

 

 

You posted a clip where he saved a bad snap, didn't panic, scores a TD and was fine lol? 

 

Every QB is going to get hit. Yes, he needs to protect himself more, he already improved that in the second half of the season. I have no reason to believe he can't continue to improve since from 22 to 23 he improved literally everywhere (including hits taken and sacks). And posting a bunch of articles from various years about him getting hit and having to take a play or two off to get checked out doesn't change anything. He's never had any significant injuries. Has never actually missed more than ONE game in FOUR AND A HALF years. 

 

I'm not commenting on the "he had good WRs" stuff anymore lol. Its pointless.

 

Yall will say "he had good WRs" while also not acknowledging the strength of schedule and level of competition he played against. 

Edited February 10 by ThatNFLChick

[FlyBigBeard]

I don't know why we would trade up and risk the future with the amount of picks that Chicago is talking about wanting. It's not that hard. You stack up during free agency with the amount of money we're going to have, fill the glaring holes. You take Maye at #2 and you trade Jonathan Allen for a 2nd and a 4th or 5th. You draft a DE with one of our three 2nd's and offensive lineman with the other two. Then best player available for the rest of the draft. Why make it harder then it has to be. 

[Est.1974]

Don’t really get the massive negative hate on Fields. Clearly improved year on year and we have recruited a staff skilled in developing a young QB. Fields is what, 24 ? and a 3 year vet already. 
 

Caleb is an elite prospect and the Bears are almost obliged to take him…
 

The amount of drooling over Maye in particular is somewhat embarrassing..😂

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Don’t really get the massive negative hate on Fields. Clearly improved year on year and we have recruited a staff skilled in developing a young QB. Fields is what, 24 ? and a 3 year vet already. 
 

Caleb is an elite prospect and the Bears are almost obliged to take him…
 

The amount of drooling over Maye in particular is somewhat embarrassing..😂

 

My main issue with Fields is that I am against trading away assets for a QB when we can draft one and I don't think he has improved enough (especially when it comes to processing, he might be slower than Howell) to justify giving up anything for him. 

[HTTRDynasty]