The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

No one is taking this job knowing ron is a lame duck. 

And this is why I am dying to get Ron out and get a proper organization set up in place. 

It’s a catch 22.  You don’t want Snyder making that move. So the sale has to go through first.  I just don’t see it happening in time for next year. (I’d love to steal Ben Johnson from Det to be the HC and pair him with an experience DC that has had HC experience) Honestly, as I’m pessimistic from last night, I feel like banking on Snyder being gone before 24 is getting people’s hopes up.

[Zim489]

Just now, Ball Security said:

It’s a catch 22.  You don’t want Snyder making that move. So the sale has to go through first.  I just don’t see it happening in time for next year. (I’d love to steal Ben Johnson from Det to be the HC and pair him with an experience DC that has had HC experience) Honestly, as I’m pessimistic from last night, I feel like banking on Snyder being gone before 24 is getting people’s hopes up.

Best case scenario is Ron steps down which allows us to hire a GM some time in March. The coaching pool is dry at that point but you can still get a great GM option then. Have JDR be the interim in the mean time. Remove the FO staff after the draft and build at that time when its FO building season. 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

It’s a catch 22.  You don’t want Snyder making that move. So the sale has to go through first.  I just don’t see it happening in time for next year. (I’d love to steal Ben Johnson from Det to be the HC and pair him with an experience DC that has had HC experience) Honestly, as I’m pessimistic from last night, I feel like banking on Snyder being gone before 24 is getting people’s hopes up.

My initial reaction was to disagree--but, I think the Broncos sale took 9 months? And that was with an estate that wasn't the biggest douchebag in sports, so you might be right.

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

Best case scenario is Ron steps down which allows us to hire a GM some time in March. The coaching pool is dry at that point but you can still get a great GM option then. Have JDR be the interim in the mean time. Remove the FO staff after the draft and build at that time when its FO building season. 

Who hires the GM though? Or are you saying that the sale will be done by then?  I don’t really like the idea of asking the new GM’s first hire be someone that isnt the best candidate.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Ball Security

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

This thread was more fun when FLSkinz was saying Heinicke was the #4 reason we lost.

[Riggo#44]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This thread was more fun when FLSkinz was saying Heinicke was the #4 reason we lost.

 

Well he wears number 4 so....

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

Who hires the GM though?

 

Right? Some people are so hellbent on getting rid of Rivera they're putting the cart in front of the horse.

[zCommander]

10 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

No one is taking this job knowing ron is a lame duck. 

And this is why I am dying to get Ron out and get a proper organization set up in place. 

 

Sounds all great and stuff. Just replace the HC and his staff and everything will be just fine and dandy. How long will it take to setup this proper organization. Will you still have all the playmakers still on the roster by then? Terry is signed until 2025 but what about the others?

[FLSkinz83]

17 minutes ago, tshile said:

sure those things matter

 

but if you’re holding to ball and you fumble that’s on you. It just is. 

 

If you're holding the ball too long, I agree.  In this case it was immediate pressure.

 

Look, most everyone here has formed their narrative on TH.   

 

We're on to San Francisco.

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This thread was more fun when FLSkinz was saying Heinicke was the #4 reason we lost.

 

I'd say tied for 4th with the defense, but only a small percentage.    Turner and the O-Line get about 60%.   The refs get 20%.  Defense and TH get 10% each

[ntotoro]

I'm still curious how a Defense that gave up one bad drive can be held to blame. Then again, The D gave the Giants ten points, Heiney gave them ten points... so I guess it's a tie. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Commanders struggling to find answers for glaring red zone failures

Analysis by Sam Fortier

Staff writer

 

In the Washington Commanders’ locker room, as players dissected the devastating loss, those on offense returned again and again to struggles in the red zone. Receiver Jahan Dotson captured the frustration by saying: “We drove the entire field to [not convert]. … It’s unacceptable.” In his postgame news conference, Coach Ron Rivera said that, during the bye week, coaches had discussed the red zone as “something we had to be better at.”

 

 

“We didn’t do that,” he said, adding that if the Commanders hadn’t stalled out just outside the red zone in the first quarter, and if they hadn’t fumbled at the New York Giants’ 5-yard line late in the fourth, the last series with questionable officiating “wouldn’t matter.”

In the 20-12 loss on Sunday night, Washington went 1-for-3 in the red zone, the lone score a 19-yard touchdown to Dotson. It’s obvious the offense has foundational weaknesses — it’s averaging 18.8 points per game with quarterback Taylor Heinicke, which would rank 22nd in the NFL over the full season — and there are plenty of questions worth asking. Is this primarily on the play-calling of offensive coordinator Scott Turner, or is he limited by his quarterback and offensive line? How much blame does the front office deserve for building a poor pass-blocking line?

 

But it’s Week 16. It’s too late to significantly address those problems, and this appears to be the offense on which Washington will bet its 2022 season. Sunday was more or less a rerun of every Heinicke performance, yo-yoing between massive miscues and inexplicable brilliance, which means coaches will have to look at the margins for improvement. The most glaring problem there is the red zone.

 

Washington has struggled there all year, regardless of quarterback. But it’s mattered more since Heinicke became the starter because the inexplosive, run-first offense has had to rely on lengthy drives, which lowers scoring, which narrows the team’s margin for error. Under Heinicke, Washington has had 23 red-zone drives, tied for 20th in the NFL, and scored a touchdown just 47.8 percent of the time, which ranks 25th.

In the past, players and coaches have blamed the woes on a variety of factors, including penalties and ineffective plays on early downs. They’ve never complained about one-dimensional play-calling — Turner calls 48 percent run in the red zone and 52 percent pass — and they’ve never suggested Heinicke struggles to zip passes into tighter windows, though it seems to be a factor. In a recent column for the website the 33rd Team,

 

Hall of Fame executive Bill Polian wrote that the Commanders “strangely … do not run well in the red zone.”

On Sunday night, several players said the team had a number of problems in the red zone, but each of them independently listed a common culprit at the top of the list.

 

...Inside the low red zone, Heinicke has completed just eight of his 24 attempts (33 percent). It is the lowest mark in the NFL by nearly 10 percent. Since 2000, out of 752 qualified quarterback seasons, Heinicke’s completion percentage this year is tied for 727th.

 

In the most critical situations, it’s even worse. On third and fourth down, Heinicke has completed one of 11 passes (9.1 percent). Since 2000, the only quarterback to attempt double-digit passes inside the low red zone and have a worse completion percentage was Chicago rookie Justin Fields in 2021 (0-for-10).

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/12/19/commanders-red-zone/

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

19 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

It is easy to say just get a QB.  Look at the history of this organization!

 

Right now we have someone in charge who is trying to win now and is also in charge of strengthening the future.  Those roles are in conflict with each other.  And the person in charge is no closer to finding the QB than they were when they walked in the door three years ago.

 

I will add that it’s hard to accept that we need to build the team the right way when they (including previous regimes) have done a good job getting really good players in place.  They just haven’t been able to take advantage of these hits in drafting.

 

If you really look at the history of this organization the only coach who lasted more than 5 years was Gruden. 

 

So yeah it would be easier to get a legit QB or if Howell is that guy. Our D is really good. We have great playmakers on offense as well. So yeah right now we are a QB away and a fortified OL and adding more to the D as well. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I'd say tied for 4th with the defense, but only a small percentage.    Turner and the O-Line get about 60%.   The refs get 20%.  Defense and TH get 10% each

Thank you for breathing new life into this thread by making Heinicke 4b, with 4a being the defense that gave up 13 points. 

[Koolblue13]

37 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

So how do we fix this mess moving forward.

I dunno, maybe get you a puppy and a girlfriend?

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

If you really look at the history of this organization the only coach who lasted more than 5 years was Gruden. 

 

So yeah it would be easier to get a legit QB or if Howell is that guy. Our D is really good. We have great playmakers on offense as well. So yeah right now we are a QB away and a fortified OL and adding more to the D as well. 

So if getting a legit QB is as easy as you say, why do you want to keep the guy who has been unable to do it for the past three years?

[Skinsinparadise]

Sort of the stay medium point about the defense in my view.  The defense did well overall.  But the heart of this team's run has really been the defense's ability to create turnovers.  When London Fletcher was asked what's the key thing for the team's turnaround he said turnovers from the defense and I agree.  And they didn't really have those game changing plays last night -- sacks or turnovers whereas the Giants defense did.

 

Defense did enough but I still am slightly dissapppointed by them.  But that's within the context of apples to apples with the Giants defense.    

 

Overall though the loss was on the passing offense, clearly.  I am expecting though the passing offense to be weak against any defense including some of the worst passing defensive teams in the NFL who they have struggled with. 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Jahan Dotson is a way better WR than I gave him credit for coming out. He's definitely a bright spot. 

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

So if getting a legit QB is as easy as you say, why do you want to keep the guy who has been unable to do it for the past three years?

 

Don't think I said easy. Where the team is right now and the way our D is playing it is O that needs to be fixed and you can win more games next year. You still have to do your homework and not just show up for the exam. 

 

As for keeping Ron do you really want to blame him for not picking his own QB and going for Chase instead?

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by zCommander

[Koolblue13]

"The defense let them walk 98 yards down field for a TD"

 

*washington walks down three times and the QB flounders all three times*

 

It's the Refs!

[Skinsinparadise]

As discussed here, alternating QBs.  If so Wentz in the red zone. 

 

..Inside the low red zone, Heinicke has completed just eight of his 24 attempts (33 percent). It is the lowest mark in the NFL by nearly 10 percent. Since 2000, out of 752 qualified quarterback seasons, Heinicke’s completion percentage this year is tied for 727th.

 

In the most critical situations, it’s even worse. On third and fourth down, Heinicke has completed one of 11 passes (9.1 percent). Since 2000, the only quarterback to attempt double-digit passes inside the low red zone and have a worse completion percentage was Chicago rookie Justin Fields in 2021 (0-for-10).

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/12/19/commanders-red-zone/

[Zim489]

8 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Jahan Dotson is a way better WR than I gave him credit for coming out. He's definitely a bright spot. 

He was great last night.

[Daniel.redskins]

Until we fix the o-line it doesn't matter who the QB is (unless we have a top 5 guy like Mahomes or Allen).  What sucks most is that our three rivals have some of the better olines in the league.  If we don't take a tackle in the draft I may be done.  I just can't watch another season of this team getting physically abused on the line.  

[CobraCommander]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

"The defense let them walk 98 yards down field for a TD"

 

*washington walks down three times and the QB flounders all three times*

 

It's the Refs!

I don't know why flounders get such a bad rap, they're delicious. Did you know some species lay on the bottom with their right side on top and other with their left side, and sometimes a species that's left side up will have one fish born that is right side up and vise versa. Fascinating and yummy.

 

 

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As discussed here, alternating QBs.  If so Wentz in the red zone. 

 

..Inside the low red zone, Heinicke has completed just eight of his 24 attempts (33 percent). It is the lowest mark in the NFL by nearly 10 percent. Since 2000, out of 752 qualified quarterback seasons, Heinicke’s completion percentage this year is tied for 727th.

 

In the most critical situations, it’s even worse. On third and fourth down, Heinicke has completed one of 11 passes (9.1 percent). Since 2000, the only quarterback to attempt double-digit passes inside the low red zone and have a worse completion percentage was Chicago rookie Justin Fields in 2021 (0-for-10).

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/12/19/commanders-red-zone/

 

Wow that's pretty terrible. I had no idea it was that bad. Makes you wonder how the coaches let it continue. I know winning solves all and we were winning. But damn. 

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, Daniel.redskins said:

If we don't take a tackle in the draft I may be done

Funny enough I think its one of the worst Tackle drafts within the last 5 years. Were going to be drafting too late. The top end guys arent on the same level as previous years and the depth isnt there either.

[Ball Security]

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Don't think I said easy. Where the team is right now and the way our D is playing it is O that needs to be fixed and you can win more games next year. You still have to do your homework and not just show up for the exam. 

 

As for keeping Ron do you really want to blame him for not picking his own QB and going for Chase instead?

 

No, I don’t blame him for the 2020 draft.  Not at all.  It’d be awesome to have Herbert, but that’s revisionist history.

 

But what has he done in three years (or in his career) to show he can improve the position?

 

Do you think he’s done a good job building this line?