The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

For me, Turner is likely the primary person Heinicke is referring to when he talks about wanting to prove his supporters right, vs his doubters wrong.  Have there been moments I thought Turner could have done better in terms of play calling w/ TH?  Sure.  But mostly, he’s been very good with Heinicke (particularly given TH’s limitations).

Agreed.  I also think TH is more honest with himself about his play than many of his ardent supporters.

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

Anyone see the stat yesterday that when we run at least one snap up tempo in a series, We've scored on 12 out of 16 drives and when we haven't it's been about 30% success rate on drives?   

 

I think it was Sam Fortier who had it, but I can't find it.     That's a crazy stat.   You can't go up tempo all the time, but Turner needs to mix it in more often.   They did it on the first drive against the Giants.  

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Anyone see the stat yesterday that when we run at least one snap up tempo in a series, We've scored on 12 out of 16 drives and when we haven't it's been about 30% success rate on drives?   

 

I think it was Sam Fortier who had it, but I can't find it.     That's a crazy stat.   You can't go up tempo all the time, but Turner needs to mix it in more often.   They did it on the first drive against the Giants.  

Quick tempo is usually reserved for the passing game. This team protects our QB like no other 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Man, she would fit right in here.  Let me guess, Scott also needs to roll TH out? 🤣

 

 

Yep she's big on that point, too.

 

The #1 thing that makes me crazy about people like her is this.

 

A.  We all agree he doesn't have average arm strength.

 

B.  The stats scream that he is one of the least accurate QBs, bottom tier in the NFL.  It doesn't matter what metric you use.  Completion %. PFF adjusted completion %.  Next generation stats.  They all agree Taylor's accuracy is bad.  It's easy to see with the naked eye.

 

So when people use the Pennington example, it doesn't apply.  Pennington didn't have the arm but he did have above average accuracy -- not bottom tier accuracy like Taylor.  So how can a dude who will be 30 next year with below average tools be the future?  It's ridiculous.  But I am not worried because I don't get the sense that this coaching staff sees Heinicke as the ticket for future success either.

 

Taylor is the little engine who could.  He doesn't have the arm, size, accuracy or apparently ability to move the ball as a runner -- so in theory he should be abysmal.  But to his credit, he's below average and not abysmal because of his moxie, ability to maneuver in the pocket, and clutch gene to keep the offense afloat -- granted just barely afoat.  He certainly has abysmal moments in games.  But he has just enough to pull a rabbit out of his hat to do his part to complement the defense and running game.    

Edited December 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

Quick tempo is usually reserved for the passing game. This team protects our QB like no other 

 

I guess that's the point.  Maybe the way to improve the passing game is to go more up tempo.  TH seems to be good at it.  Maybe it's harder for the defense to scheme up pressure on the QB.  

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Quick tempo is usually reserved for the passing game. This team protects our QB like no other 

I personally think it helps heinicke because he seems to me the kind of guy who works better when in rhythm and not thinking too much.

I think that's why he tends to be decent in 4th quarter drives too.

[Skinsinparadise]

The uptempo is a double edge sword considering a big part of the strategy behind the win streak is time of possession and keeping the ball out of the hands of the opponent.

[Wyndorf25]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

Right now behind this O-line, I am not sure what QB would have success. Yes, good QBs would be better than Heinicke, but that is a low bar.  Ron went into the season with the assumption the O-line was going to be a lot better and then injuries started piling up and here we are.  I am not a Wentz believer, but I do think with a better O-line he is absolutely the better option, the flipside is what can I expect from Wentz behind this awful O-line?  Heinicke is supposed to be the mobile QB that can hurt with his legs, yet he is still getting hit after a ton of throws, so much that a handful of times over the past couple of games, he has got up pretty slow and shaking his arm out.  If Ron & Co. don't get some more depth in here from I don't know where, Heinicke might be playing on borrowed time as it is.  

 

TH needs to use his legs more, plain and simple. If the O-line was providing dependable protection for the QB, then Wentz would be the guy because he has the arm to open up the offense more. But the O-line simply is not providing dependable protection and TH is better equipped to move around and avoid sacks than Wentz.

 

However, what would separate TH in THIS offense, behind this O-line would be running more. Something that Wentz is just no longer equipped to be asked to do.

 

Win with what you have, not what you wished you had.

[Zim489]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The uptempo is a double edge sword considering a big part of the strategy behind the win streak is time of possession and keeping the ball out of the hands of the opponent.

Couple that with staying ahead of the chains. Combine 1st down incompletion into a 3 yard run (Scott Turner calls the most conservative offense in football on second down) and youre staring 3rd and 7 in the face. Good way to get 1-2 first downs a game and punt after 3 mins. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The uptempo is a double edge sword considering a big part of the strategy behind the win streak is time of possession and keeping the ball out of the hands of the opponent.

I’ll add to this, TH has a knack for making plays that he shouldn’t be able to make in these situations.  He also has a knack for putting the ball in harms way in these situations.  I know some folks don’t like to talk about the interceptions that weren’t, but it is what it is.

 

We’ve chosen the path of keep away from the opposing offense and now is no time to change that up.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ll add to this, TH has a knack for making plays that he shouldn’t be able to make in these situations.  He also has a knack for putting the ball in harms way in these situations.  I know some folks don’t like to talk about the interceptions that weren’t, but it is what it is.

 

We’ve chosen the path of keep away from the opposing offense and now is no time to change that up.

 

Yeah the formula is definitetly run the ball, eat the clock, rest the defense.   Some sneaky possible benefits aside from the obvious as to having a rested defense -- allows Payne and Allen to play an insane number of percentage of snaps.  They aren't rotated much.  Also the defense has been creating turnovers including later in the games.  A rested defense that isn't worn down especially late in tight games has been the calling card.

 

 

 

Hard for me to believe unless its their reflection on the current QBs because I recall one of the beat guys in the off season (forgetting which one) said Baker isn't a player they dug 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

Id feel much better about a Baker Howell QB room next year opposed to a TH/Wentz and Howell QB room. I dont expect TH back at all. 

[Stone Cold]

Not a baker guy, but if ya wanna buy low on a vet to compete in camp with 4 and Sam,…welp…

[Skinsinparadise]

MMQ

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/12/06/baker-mayfield-release-waivers-suitors

 

Florida QB Anthony Richardson figures to be a fascinating prospect for teams to take a look at in the wake of his declaration for the draft. He’s a kid who clearly could’ve use another year of development—but when a guy has first-round ability, it’s hard to tell him to undergo that development in college, rather than while clearing a seven-figure paycheck in the pros.

“He’s got some accuracy issues,” said one NFC exec, earlier in the fall. “But the dude does some freaky stuff now. He’s got size, speed, strength, toughness. And you see that in how they use him—they run him, he’s physical, you see the arm strength, and him throwing from different arm slots. Plus, he’s a good kid. He just needs time.

 

One thing I know got the attention of scouts was how, in first-year Gators coach Billy Napier’s offense, Richardson was actually handling some full-field reads, an ability that would raise the ceiling on who he can be as a pro.

It’ll be fun to follow how this one goes, and where Richardson lands in an imperfect class of quarterbacks, headed up by Bryce Young, Will Levis and C.J. Stroud.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

I've given up clamoring for hurry up for 2 decades. I am thrilled to hear its been productive. Its certainly not difficult to track 1-2 plays a week.

Edited December 6, 2022 by RandyHolt

[KDawg]

The big thing Heinicke brings that some of the “league best” don’t: clutch and nerves of steel. Cousins is a better QB is every single measure. Physical, statistical, size… name it and its advantage Cousins. Most of us think Cousins would make us a better team I’d bet.

 

But I’d take Taylor Heinicke in a close game in the fourth quarter in prime time almost 100% of the time.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

For the record, it's Sabah, there is an "h" at the end.  She's on twitter.  I'll let you figure out her handle.

 

She is a dr. She emails Galdi constantly.  She is the queen bee of the hive, there's no question.

 

She crushes Ron for not just sticking with TH, wasting time trying to upgrade with both Fitz and Wentz, she crushes Turner because clearly he doesn't know how to use Heinicke, he is stifling his all-pro level skills.

 

She is, in a word, insufferable.  But I think the stations give her the time of day because she's an easy mark, she's one of the few female callers, probably the only regular female caller, and she does seem like a nice and generally intelligent person.  Her complete love of TH not withstanding.  

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Of all the the takes on our QB situation over the years, Scott Turner not doing right by TH might be the wildest.  Without Scott Turner, TH is probably an accountant right now.  I bet nobody is more aware of this than TH himself.

He was pursuing a mathematics degree, formerly engineering.  So maybe accountant.  I don't honestly know what you do with a degree in mathematics except teach other people mathematics.  But I'm impressed by it because math is hard....

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But I’d take Taylor Heinicke in a close game in the fourth quarter in prime time almost 100% of the time.

Would any of these games be a close game if Taylor wasnt the QB is the biggest question. Arsonist firefighter.

[KDawg]

Just now, Zim489 said:

Would any of these games be a close game if Taylor wasnt the QB is the biggest question. Arsonist firefighter.

Ya, they could be. If we’re more of a passing offense the defense is on the field more. Catch-22.

[fearlessNelms]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I sit here watching every game and say "Why doesn't Heinicke take off and run more"? He was good at tucking it and running on off-script plays last year. For whatever reason, he seems to have not run in a lot of situations where I've seen the opportunity for him to do so and chooses to hang in there to try to make a throw or simply throws the ball away- which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But yes, I would like to see him run more. His legs are a weapon and in today's NFL if you have a QB that is athletic and can scoot, you need to take advantage of that.

 

Heinicke's running stats the past two years

 

2021- 60 attempts- 313 yds.- 5.2 average in 16 games

2022- 23 attempts- 67 yds.- 2.9 average in 7 games

 

So, he's actually pretty much on pace to be right around last years attempts, but the yards and average are not. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by fearlessNelms

[oraphus]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Hard for me to believe unless its their reflection on the current QBs because I recall one of the beat guys in the off season (forgetting which one) said Baker isn't a player they dug 

 

 

 

Makes sense to pick him up just to keep Niners from getting him (if rams pass) 

[Buddha]

I'm old school on Howell in terms of QB development -- he needs to sit the whole season and maybe a good portion of next season before I'd want to see him get a shot.  Everytime I see him on the sidelines, he looks like he would soil himself if he had to go in for Heinicke right now.

 

I wouldn't hate a waiver claim on Mayfield.  If he leaves in free agency, we could get a comp pick in return for nothing.  I'd also cut Wentz over the bye if we got Mayfield -- should save us in the neighborhood of $6.5 million on this year's cap to carry forward to next year.

 

Oh, and I'd go as high as $10 million per season in a multi-year deal to re-sign Heinicke (with minimal guarantees).  Provided he accepts that he is a #2 and one of the best in that role.

[Zim489]

Just now, Buddha said:

I'm old school on Howell in terms of QB development -- he needs to sit the whole season and maybe a good portion of next season before I'd want to see him get a shot.  Everytime I see him on the sidelines, he looks like he would soil himself if he had to go in for Heinicke right now.

 

I wouldn't hate a waiver claim on Mayfield.  If he leaves in free agency, we could get a comp pick in return for nothing.  I'd also cut Wentz over the bye if we got Mayfield -- should save us in the neighborhood of $6.5 million on this year's cap to carry forward to next year.

 

Oh, and I'd go as high as $10 million per season in a multi-year deal to re-sign Heinicke (with minimal guarantees).  Provided he accepts that he is a #2 and one of the best in that role.

Howell would be a prime canidate for the @Skinsinparadisepractice squad guaranteed protected spot. I dont think the team can proceed with their QB search expecting him to be the answer long term but he might be a guy some where down the line with stability. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The big thing Heinicke brings that some of the “league best” don’t: clutch and nerves of steel. Cousins is a better QB is every single measure. Physical, statistical, size… name it and its advantage Cousins. Most of us think Cousins would make us a better team I’d bet.

 

But I’d take Taylor Heinicke in a close game in the fourth quarter in prime time almost 100% of the time.

 

There’s no doubt that for whatever reason Heinicke thrives when the chips are down, but Kirk is 29th all time in GWD, and has around 7 of them this season alone.  The narrative doesn’t always match the particulars.