The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Sure seems like he’s the same.  A small part of me wonders if things might have been different this year with a better oline… but the likely answer is twofold - probably not, and who really cares, lol.

[mistertim]

Those statistics make no sense. Heinicke spent the offseason working on improving his arm strength. Given that his arm must now be stronger, how could his numbers be identical? 

[mh86]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Those statistics make no sense. Heinicke spent the offseason working on improving his arm strength. Given that his arm must now be stronger, how could his numbers be identical? 

There’s a perfectly logical explanation. Suns been in his eyes on both sides of the field

[redskinss]

9 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

That play had so much fairy dust around it. I am not touching that one at all 

I agree and since it appears you don't wish to debate this particular play I'll add one more thing.

That play is a viral tik tok right now, and sports tik toks go viral for one of two reasons, they're either an eye popping feat of athleticism or a comedy of errors.

It's usually not to hard to discern which one it is.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

About the ‘touchdown’ to Samuel…

 

Ref tackle aside, WTF kind of decision was that? Did he get asked about it in the post game presser?

 

A receiver has never been more covered and it’s not like they got there late because the ball was floating.  Three Vikings were literally hanging out down there.

[dunfer]

Backup QB. What do you guys hating on heini want? a new backup to lead us to the superbowl? Dude has done fine for being 5'9" backup. 

 

Wentz....Lets go Wentz

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, dunfer said:

Backup QB. What do you guys hating on heini want? a new backup to lead us to the superbowl? Dude has done fine for being 5'9" backup. 

 

Wentz....Lets go Wentz

I’m personally here for the lulz.

 

I get a kick out of the Hive flailing.  Poor @zCommander though is left on his own, the few others are MIA.

 

I’m going to be bold and predict the Ders go into halftime on Monday down multiple scores with 0 on the board, and Howell gets the start in the second half.

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, mh86 said:

There’s a perfectly logical explanation. Suns been in his eyes on both sides of the field

 

This actually confirms my hypothesis that the heliocentric theory of our solar system is incorrect and the sun actually revolves around Taylor Heinicke.

 

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m personally here for the lulz.

 

I get a kick out of the Hive flailing.  Poor @zCommander though is left on his own, the few others are MIA.

 

I’m going to be bold and predict the Ders go into halftime on Monday down multiple scores with 0 on the board, and Howell gets the start in the second half.

 

Yeah I give him a hard time, but I gotta give @zCommandercredit: he's more or less holding down the entire Heinicke fort nowadays and just keeps grinding.

Edited November 7, 2022 by mistertim

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get a kick out of the Hive flailing.  Poor @zCommander though is left on his own, the few others are MIA.

And we nearly won that game.

Had we won, even if it had been on a late pick 6 for our d we'd be up to our necks in apologists.

I got nothing against heiny personally but this aint personal he just isn't a good quarterback. 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I wouldn't call myself part of the Hive, though I do like giving @Voice_of_Reason a raft of **** in the game threads when he does something good.  

 

It's fun when he does something great like that spin move on the run yesterday.  But I know I'm not alone in holding my breath when I see him throw a pass.  Either it's something miraculous or boneheaded.

[mh86]

Personally I think TH is good for what he’s supposed to be, a backup QB. The dude can at least get you some of the games the team should win in the absence of a starting QB.

 

It’s obvious our OL play has gone down drastically this year. You can see it in the run and pass game. That said, it’s no excuse for either QB imo. I’m no x and o’s guy so I can’t speak on turner.
 

Wentz most likely isn’t the answer, but I can see where some people are coming from in wanting him to get some more time behind center. Prior to the Snyder potentially selling (hallelujah) news I figured if the coaching staff and FO hasn’t seen enough of Wentz they’d want to ride with him another year. My opinion is they should try to save those picks if they can, but also throw Wentz in later in the season to further assess.

 

what I think will happen is they will go with whatever they feel will give them the best chance to win, which is probably Wentz. Unfortunately, the staff doesn’t want to lose the team throwing in Howell just to see what he has knowing they aren’t likely here beyond next year. I wish that weren’t the case, but I believe it’s the most likely outcome.  
 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, redskinss said:

And we nearly won that game.

Had we won, even if it had been on a late pick 6 for our d we'd be up to our necks in apologists.

I got nothing against heiny personally but this aint personal he just isn't a good quarterback. 

 

Yeah, a lot of the “all he does is win crew” is quiet AF right now.  @zCommander just in here like…

[NoCalMike]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I don’t necessarily buy the “Terry loves TH” - I think there’s some evidence both ways - but we did see his production ramp up in TH’s first two games (don’t know how it looks after yesterday’s game though). 

 

Which passes into double coverage are you talking about?  TD vs Alexander wasn’t, deep ball Terry took from Gilmore wasn’t, crossing route against the Colts for 43 wasn’t.  There are legitimate arguments to make for sure, but that does not seem to be one of them.  Now if you were talking about last year…

 

I’ve been pretty consistent that I believe Wentz is a better qb than Heinicke.  However, I’ve also said that Heinicke might be a better fit right now considering the oline issues (and I could well be wrong about that).  I think it’s also fair to consider whether Wentz would have better success in the game manager role TH has been put into.  The performance of the D plays into that, as does leaning on the run.  It’s also possible that if Turner was calling the more pass-heavy O he was with Wentz, that Heinicke would be performing even worse.

 

All of that said, are you sure Wentz was out producing TH?  Or is it a product of Wentz throwing more?  Heinicke has a higher TD%, higher yards per attempt and air yards per attempt, higher yards per completion, higher completion percentage, higher QBR, and is taking fewer sacks (about half as many).  To be clear, I’m not arguing Heinicke has been good (he’s been mostly bad), and as I said, it’s possible he’d be performing far worse if we were leaning on the pass.

 

You’ve been very consistent in your posting - trying to minimize Heinicke and prop up or defend Wentz.  That’s cool, I totally get it -  Heinicke’s not a good qb (putting it gently) and Wentz has been historically much better.  And you bring up valid points/questions - about how Wentz would have performed with the D playing as it has, or how he’d do with a better ground game, etc.  Not trying to be a **** here, I just think you’re better off making sure you’re not letting your feelings ignore the evidence.

 

 

And to be clear once again, I’m hopeful TH gets benched after this week.  Hopefully either Sweitzer returns, the oline improves, and Wentz gets another chance (and succeeds) behind a less atrocious oline, or we turn the page to Howell.  I totally understand those that are done with the Wentz experiment, but I’ll also understand if the staff isn’t quite there yet.  My hope is we either show offensive improvement under Wentz and challenge for the postseason, or we look to the future with Howell.  Actually, if I’m being honest, I would love to have Howell given the reins and see the offense improve (and the team get into the playoffs), but that feels… pretty unlikely.

 

I think Wentz is a better QB than Heinicke, but I don't think that is any kind of hot take or controversial statement.  I also don't think Wentz has shown that he is still a good enough QB to earn an extension.  I would be uneasy bringing Wentz back for any kind of significant financial obligation based on what I've seen so far.  I think sometimes with these conversations I have to do a better job distinguishing between 2022 itself and bigger picture.  It is entirely possible, and probably likely, that neither guy is the QB going forward, especially if we have new ownership/front office/coaches going into 2023, so lets just focus on 2022 itself, I am not seeing anything particular that Heinicke is offering that would justify keeping a healthy Wentz on the bench,but by that same token that isn't any kind of big endorsement of Wentz as the answer, just that I think Wentz has the better skill set to take advantage of the personnel on offense.

[Bigmuss1]

Are we any closer in seeing Howell?  

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

41 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m personally here for the lulz.

 

I get a kick out of the Hive flailing.  Poor @zCommander though is left on his own, the few others are MIA.

 

I’m going to be bold and predict the Ders go into halftime on Monday down multiple scores with 0 on the board, and Howell gets the start in the second half.

If true, feeling pumped in a blowout loss will feel weird.

[dunfer]

57 minutes ago, Bigmuss1 said:

Are we any closer in seeing Howell?  

doubtful. Wentz is a ride or die for Ron i think with the owner**** going on

 

unless they see something special in practice

Edited November 7, 2022 by dunfer

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Bigmuss1 said:

Are we any closer in seeing Howell?  

 

If they keep losing and Heinicke keeps making terrible passes like he did yesterday, I don't see why not.

 

There's no need to see Wentz again, IMO.  None.  

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yeah, a lot of the “all he does is win crew” is quiet AF right now.  @zCommander just in here like…

 

If you enjoy hunting for sport constructive dialog on the topic, I recommend r/Commanders on Reddit, as there's still plenty of them there asking if people are blind when Taylor is the one admiting to throwing with his eyes closed.

[dunfer]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

If they keep losing and Heinicke keeps making terrible passes like he did yesterday, I don't see why not.

 

There's no need to see Wentz again, IMO.  None.  

are we out of the draft pick stipulation yet? or can he still get enough snaps?

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I think Wentz is a better QB than Heinicke, but I don't think that is any kind of hot take or controversial statement.  I also don't think Wentz has shown that he is still a good enough QB to earn an extension.  I would be uneasy bringing Wentz back for any kind of significant financial obligation based on what I've seen so far.  I think sometimes with these conversations I have to do a better job distinguishing between 2022 itself and bigger picture.  It is entirely possible, and probably likely, that neither guy is the QB going forward, especially if we have new ownership/front office/coaches going into 2023, so lets just focus on 2022 itself, I am not seeing anything particular that Heinicke is offering that would justify keeping a healthy Wentz on the bench,but by that same token that isn't any kind of big endorsement of Wentz as the answer, just that I think Wentz has the better skill set to take advantage of the personnel on offense.

 

IMO, this is where a new owner makes things interesting.

 

If, somehow, Danya is the owner after the season I can see them wanting to bring Wentz back for some reason.  He still has some name recognition and, make no mistake, that's why he's here in the first place.  

 

I agree with you, but I wouldn't just be uneasy about bringing Wentz back, I'd totally pass altogether.  I'd bring Heinicke back on a small contract that's fit for a backup.  

 

I'm also under no illusion that Howell is the guy but I'd at least like to see him play this year in order to see if there's anything there.  But I'm of the mindset that "the guy" for us isn't currently on the roster.  

Just now, dunfer said:

are we out of the draft pick stipulation yet? or can he still get enough snaps?

 

I'd have to crunch the numbers (but I won't).  I think he could still get enough snaps.

 

Draft pick aside, I just don't really see the upside in playing Wentz at all.  I think him and Heinicke are fairly equal, they just have different strengths and weaknesses but are prone to delivering the same results.  

[dunfer]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

IMO, this is where a new owner makes things interesting.

 

If, somehow, Danya is the owner after the season I can see them wanting to bring Wentz back for some reason.  He still has some name recognition and, make no mistake, that's why he's here in the first place.  

 

I agree with you, but I wouldn't just be uneasy about bringing Wentz back, I'd totally pass altogether.  I'd bring Heinicke back on a small contract that's fit for a backup.  

 

I'm also under no illusion that Howell is the guy but I'd at least like to see him play this year in order to see if there's anything there.  But I'm of the mindset that "the guy" for us isn't currently on the roster.  

 

I'd have to crunch the numbers (but I won't).  I think he could still get enough snaps.

 

Draft pick aside, I just don't really see the upside in playing Wentz at all.  I think him and Heinicke are fairly equal, they just have different strengths and weaknesses but are prone to delivering the same results.  

wentz learning the offense could make him a decent starter

[DJHJR86]

 

 

Dropped the ball with this one.  

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, dunfer said:

wentz learning the offense could make him a decent starter

 

Even marginal QBs are becoming expensive. 

 

I'm open to moving on with Wentz if we have a better answer that doesn't devastate our cap.

 

But it has to be bird in hand with reality this coaching staff is allergic to the idea of tying their win loss record to developing a rookie QB.

 

So when I hear "we can do better", my brain translates that into "Jimmy G" might be available, which I'm not buying as an upgrade or better situation for our cap.

 

I believe we are trapped with Wentz and at different stages of grief accepting it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, dunfer said:

wentz learning the offense could make him a decent starter

 

I'm so past that.  

 

Seriously, he needs a new offensive line, too.  He's pretty much a statue back there and while I realize he doesn't get rid of the ball quick enough, all that means is that he just needs more time to throw.  And that's a luxury we don't have right now.

 

Like I said, the franchise QB isn't currently on the roster.  It's not Wentz, it's certainly not Heinicke and it's probably not Howell.  Wentz is a shell of his former self and his strengths aren't strong enough to overcome his weaknesses, the odds of a guy like that turning his career around are slim to none, new offense or not.  Heinicke is what he is.  And Howell, as much as I'd love to see him, odds are that a 5th round pick isn't the guy.

 

This fanbase is so warped into thinking that we're so close to having a QB solution, it's baffling to me.  We're not close at all.  

[Renegade7]

@Spaceman Spiff I agree if Danyi's influence isn't killed and removed from this offseason, it will be hard to see anyone but Wentz as the starter in 2023 because how much they love names.

 

was at stadium yesterday, mad as hell i still didnt have a black Terry jersey for the blackout game, still waiting on the order, when i heard team store had a bunch of black Chase Young jerseys. 

 

Guess who was the only other jersey in there on the racks on rack on racks?  That is NOT a coincidence...

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Renegade7