The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

I think it depends who the rookie is. If it is Pickett I dont see him sitting for a year. The rest of the guys in this draft? Sure they could all use it. But Pickett is ready to play day one IMO. 

 

 

The consensus from the beat guys seems to be that they will not draft Pickett if they have signed a vet QB like Trubisky or Mariotta. They would be being signed as the intended starter with a view to them the long term guy. In that scenario they will use that #11 pick on another non QB position that can help the team right away.

 

It seems like a first round rookie QB only becomes something we look at if we strike out completely on the vet QB who is a viable starter. That should tell us something about how they view this QB class - and the trouble we would be in going into the draft without having signed a vet QB and no guarantee who is available at #11. We might be forced into reaching for a QB who the scouts and front office really don't grade as being worth that high a pick. Then you start to worry we might get panicked into trading up to get the QB thats the top of our draft board and giving up future picks.

[mistertim]

How in the world could anyone possibly view Mitch Trubisky or Marcus Mariota as anything even resembling long term guys?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think he does but doesn’t understand what needs to be done to do it. I think he was completely misinformed just at how “available” the elite guys will be. So that leans to needing to go to the draft but he seems unwilling to go that direction 

 

A bunch of national reporters expected serious off season movement for veteran QBs, now they are backing off of that. 

 

If there is a criticism of Ron that IMO flows with that facts it would be something like this:

 

A.  While you didn't blow off the idea of obtaining a QB last off season, you did chase the top QB on the market, and did try to trade up, you were also concerned about value in the trade. 

B.  Now you are more or less saying value is out the window, you'd pay any price.

C.  So I get the criticism if some feel this way that you needed to have that 10 out of 10 level of desperation last year.   If Denver asked for 2 first rounders and a 2nd rounder and Montez Sweat to get Justin Fields, then just do it. Not sure what the team asked for, just heard it was for a lot and also included a major player. If you had to give up three first rounders to top the Rams order to get Stafford then do it.  No price is too big.  Say yes to whatever teams request ala what you are hinting at today.

 

Outside of that, i don't get the criticism.  I serioulsy doubt anyone offered anything for their 19th pick -- what player was a must get at that spot where a team would give up the farm for.   And Rivera would have gotten killed by most fans at the time if he passed on Chase Young in the 2020 draft to build 2021 draft capital.

 

As for this draft, I dont want Rivera to have the attitude of screw it, I'll take my 50th favorite player on the board at 11 if he's a QB because I need a Qb -- and while my scouts believe said player is likely a bust, lets ride it anyway.  Lets do Haskins Part 2 where you grab a QB your scouts don't really like and hope for a better result?

 

If we are talking about the Steelers are a smart team -- the irony is judging by the rumors the Commanders have the exact same 2 QBs that the Steelers like tops on their board for the draft, they both apparently like the same 2 FA QBs, and both have some intrigue with Jimmy G.  Only difference I can tell is the Commanders have Pickett ahead of Willis.  Whereas it seems like the Steelers have Willis ahead of Pickett.  And we seem to be swinging hard for Wilson.  I don't get the sense the Steelers are doing the same as for chasing Wilson but not sure.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

How in the world could anyone possibly view Mitch Trubisky or Marcus Mariota as anything even resembling long term guys?

 

People who dont understand modern football.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

The consensus from the beat guys seems to be that they will not draft Pickett if they have signed a vet QB like Trubisky or Mariotta. They would be being signed as the intended starter with a view to them the long term guy. In that scenario they will use that #11 pick on another non QB position that can help the team right away.

 

It seems like a first round rookie QB only becomes something we look at if we strike out completely on the vet QB who is a viable starter. That should tell us something about how they view this QB class - and the trouble we would be in going into the draft without having signed a vet QB and no guarantee who is available at #11. We might be forced into reaching for a QB who the scouts and front office really don't grade as being worth that high a pick. Then you start to worry we might get panicked into trading up to get the QB thats the top of our draft board and giving up future picks.

 

I get the impression listening to Keim that they will take Pickett at #11 if he falls there regardless of them signing a FA.  But they don't expect Pickett to make it to #11.  If Pickett is gone, then its 2nd-3rd rounders.

 

I know Chad Ryan doesn't feel that way but listening to all of Keim's podcasts he's pretty consistent on that point which is Pickett is in play in any scenario on the off chance he falls to #11 unless they get a big ticket guy. 

[Redskins 2021]

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the impression listening to Keim that they will take Pickett at #11 if he falls there regardless of them signing a FA.  But they don't expect Pickett to make it to #11.  If Pickett is gone, then its 2nd-3rd rounders.

 

I know Chad Ryan doesn't feel that way but listening to all of Keim's podcasts he's pretty consistent on that point which is Pickett is in play in any scenario on the off chance he falls to #11 unless they get a big ticket guy. 

 Did keim mention the level of interest in Watson?  Is there any? Is he a hard no?

 

If Pickett was there he would be a good fit with us.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Dark Acre said:

Pickett smashed all of Marino's records *before* the season started?  Now that's a guy who comes prepared!

 

Seriously, though, how often do college QBs who have strong arms and can run but have accuracy and reading-the-defense problems get coached up in the NFL?

That one flew over your head. He said he could predict the top QB's years in advance. Yet no one had Pickett doing what he did this year in pre season thoughts. 

[MrJL]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

How in the world could anyone possibly view Mitch Trubisky or Marcus Mariota as anything even resembling long term guys?

 

 

they're only in their late 20s.  If they're bad enough they can't be long term guys then why do you want them around potentially teaching your rookie bad habits?

 

[Burgold]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

How in the world could anyone possibly view Mitch Trubisky or Marcus Mariota as anything even resembling long term guys?

 

Amazingly both Marriota and Tribusky were not only first rounders, but both were taken with the second overall pick. They are both cautionary tales as to how number one picks even very high number one picks don't solve the QB problem.

 

In some respects, this is what scares me about drafting a QB we don't love in a year that's rated as being sketchy for QBs. They're all reaches. Now, we could strike gold as I think front offices and evaluators blow QB evaluations often, but all this talk about how you have to draft a QB in the first round needs to carry a warning label. So many first round busts.

[MrJL]

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Amazingly both Marriota and Tribusky were not only first rounders, but both were taken with the second overall pick. They are both cautionary tales as to how number one picks even very high number one picks don't solve the QB problem.

 

In some respects, this is what scares me about drafting a QB we don't love in a year that's rated as being sketchy for QBs. They're all reaches. Now, we could strike gold as I think front offices and evaluators blow QB evaluations often, but all this talk about how you have to draft a QB in the first round needs to carry a warning label. So many first round busts.

 

they are exactly why we shouldn't try to force the pick

[clskinsfan]

12 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

People who dont understand modern football.

Both of those guys are a threat with their legs. Where were you going with this comment?

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

they're only in their late 20s.  If they're bad enough they can't be long term guys then why do you want them around potentially teaching your rookie bad habits?

 

 

Who cares how old they are if they're not good NFL QBs?

 

And I have a feeling the input that guys like Trubisky or Mariota would have on a rookie QB's development would be very minimal. They could probably help him out on how to be a pro, how to prepare, etc. but I'd think it would be more Zampese and Turner who would be coaching him on actual football stuff.

[Cooleyfan1993]

13 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

That one flew over your head. He said he could predict the top QB's years in advance. Yet no one had Pickett doing what he did this year in pre season thoughts. 

I might be wrong, but i dont think anything flew over his head, looked to me like he was just making a joke  

[ExoDus84]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

Honestly it doesnt matter. Hes has the best chance to be elite. Smallest chance we have had in a draft in a really long time though.

 

Its why so many were pressing for QB last year. 

And outside of a check swing at Stafford they have stared at balls come across the plate 

 

From what I've heard/read, I wouldn't categorize our pursuit of Stafford last year as a "check swing". Seems like they went hard trying to get him, but came up short. We didn't have a QB to trade back to Detroit, and Stafford wanted to play in LA in any case.

[MartinC]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the impression listening to Keim that they will take Pickett at #11 if he falls there regardless of them signing a FA.  But they don't expect Pickett to make it to #11.  If Pickett is gone, then its 2nd-3rd rounders.

 

I know Chad Ryan doesn't feel that way but listening to all of Keim's podcasts he's pretty consistent on that point which is Pickett is in play in any scenario on the off chance he falls to #11 unless they get a big ticket guy. 

I think John has hedged bets - but from his podcasts I’ve not got the impression we are locked on to take Pickett at #11 regardless. I have got the impression he’s the top of our draft board at the QB position though. 
 

Chad has been very clear his info (for what that’s worth) is we wouldn’t take any QB first round if we sign a FA.

[Redskins 2021]

If Pickett falls to us and we sign an fa we should still pick him. We could have 

 

1 Trubisky 

2 Pickett 

3 Heinike 

 

  Let them battle it out for the spot.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

People were talking a crazy hypothetical of multiple ones in a move up for Willis. Thats a massive ringing bell if some one wants to offer. Completely different than intrigue with out any mention of cost. 

Teams traded multiple firsts to get Wentz and Goff, and traded up to get Mitch.  And a whole bunch of other trade ups which haven’t worked out.  
 

I would remind you the best GM in this team’s history, Bobby Bethard, traded a haul to move up and select Ryan Leaf.

 

Just because one team sees value doesn’t make that team right.

 

Sometimes the best moves you make are the ones you don’t make. 

[MrJL]

28 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Who cares how old they are if they're not good NFL QBs?

 

And I have a feeling the input that guys like Trubisky or Mariota would have on a rookie QB's development would be very minimal. They could probably help him out on how to be a pro, how to prepare, etc. but I'd think it would be more Zampese and Turner who would be coaching him on actual football stuff.

 

They still are going to be watching him practice and play, learning their habits.

 

the simple fact is, if the modern QB situation is what so many people say it is, the idea of a bridge QB is obsolete.  You should either be starting a high first pick or starting a rookie free agent to tank for a high first round draft pick

 

If Trubisky and Mariotta aren't good NFL QBs they should not be signed for any period of time

[RWJ]

Sorry, if this full story by Keim has been posted but I have cut/pasted a few things that seem important from the article.

 

 

There are expected be a few experienced quarterbacks available, notably Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota and Mitchell Trubisky. They likely wouldn't cost more than $10 million, saving cap space and draft capital to keep building. If Washington does sign a free agent, it most likely would pair him with a rookie, possibly a second- or third-round pick.  Of this group, Bridgewater and Trubisky would make the most sense for Washington, in part because of the staff's familiarity with them.

 

Washington offensive coordinator Scott Turner served as Bridgewater's position coach for three years in Minnesota, and executive vice president of football/player personnel Marty Hurney was with Carolina in the 2020 offseason when it signed Bridgewater.  Washington's new tight ends coach Juan Castillo was with Trubisky for one season in Chicago, and Rivera remains tight with Buffalo Bills coach Sean McDermott and Bills' general manager Brandon Beane. They can provide good insight on Trubisky's development after his one season in Buffalo. Washington left tackle Charles Leno played with Trubisky in Chicago.

 

 

"Mariota and Trubisky are as good as Garoppolo, they just don't have the body of work," said former NFL general manager Randy Mueller. "I'd rather have my picks and build out the rest of my team. This team is not a quarterback [like Garoppolo] away from being a deep playoff team.  "Trubisky wasted his time in Chicago; they didn't do him any service at all. He's better than what we've seen, and I'd say that about Mariota as well. Both those guys are better than multiple starters playing right now."

 

"There's no real consensus on the quarterbacks in this draft," Kiper said. "Is a quarterback worthy of being the 11th overall pick?"

Mueller believes Pickett will be gone before Washington picks: "My opinion of the quarterbacks is that he's the only guy," he said.

 

 

If Washington takes a quarterback after the first round, Cincinnati's Desmond Ridder would be one option. Kiper said he would have elevated him to the first- or second-best quarterback in this group had he played better against Alabama in the 2021 College Football Playoff Semifinal, instead saying Ridder looked "overwhelmed" in Cincinnati's 27-6 loss.  However, Kiper said, "The talent is there. He gives you a dual-threat quarterback. He has as much talent as any quarterback in this draft. If you get him in the second or third round, he's worthy of being a selection at that point. He's a mature kid -- first in, last out and works hard. There's a lot to work with. He's not a finished product."

 

 

 

 

 

[MartinC]

15 minutes ago, MrJL said:

You should either be starting a high first pick or starting a rookie free agent to tank for a high first round draft pick

 

This makes sense - unless your job as a GM or HC and those of your coaching staff are tied to expectations of winning games and being competitive.

 

You would need an intelligent owner who was completely bought into that strategy and capable of patience and with a long term perspective. Does that sound like Snyder to you 🙂

[Redskins 2021]

Jimmy G will not be able to throw the ball for 12 weeks after. surgery.  He can start in beginning of July. That is big for his trade value.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Chad has been very clear his info (for what that’s worth) is we wouldn’t take any QB first round if we sign a FA.

I kindof think that’s poppy****. 
 

FA comes before the draft.  If we don’t get a trade for a big gun, then they HAVE to sign a FA because FA comes before the draft.  
 

And if the guy they like (assuming they like any of them) is there at 11, or even if they like one and want to move up to get him, the fact they had to sign a FA before the draft, I doubt Mitch or whoever they sign is going to alter their decision in the draft if they think that player has significant long term upside.  
 

I could be wrong.  
 

Also, they could evaluate all the guys and think they have average ceilings.  

[MrJL]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

This makes sense - unless your job as a GM or HC and those of your coaching staff are tied to expectations of winning games and being competitive.

 

You would need an intelligent owner who was completely bought into that strategy and capable of patience and with a long term perspective. Does that sound like Snyder to you 🙂

well, I don't think he's smart  really.  BUT he's been doing this 20 years AND he's adopted every other strategy and he has traded multiple firsts to trade to the number 2 pick in the draft to get the sort of guy we're talking about, plus he gave Jay Gruden 5+ years despite the fact Jay never took a team to the Super Bowl and didn't have a feel good surviving cancer story, and didn't have his first offseason with the team wrecked by a pandemic that totally derailed the normal NFL offseason setup.

 

So I think if it looked like the 2023 crop of QBs was good I think it's possible

[FLSkinz83]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Sounds like TH to me.   

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Again though, just to be clear, my point was if Heinicke is better at the non-statistical  things (reading defenses, poise, heart, or whatever) I could see that trumping a stronger arm.  Combining the stats I mention above, plus the idea that Heinicke could be better at the less tangible things, I just don’t think it’s “ridiculous” for someone to think Heinicke is a better qb (or better option or would win a camp battle or whatever).  Maybe that’s just me.

I just don't buy that Taylor is Captain Intangible.  It just feels like a reason to boost his value beyond reality.  I don't disagree that he has quality intangibles, in fact - I'd point to those solely as the reason he's not an accountant right now.  However, I see 'reads defenses' listed as a positive attribute regularly by the few folks who really dig him as a player.  I'm not sure what gives the indication that he's good at reading defenses.  He holds the ball for a while and is responsible for a large portion of the sacks he takes.  When I think Taylor Heineke, I definitely think of a player with a lot of heart, that will give his all, and make some remarkable plays with his legs off schedule - but I don't think of a cerebral quarterback that is great at reading defenses.  I guess where we differ is I don't see the 7 wins we acheived this past season as a starting point for what Taylor can do.  I don't see the Taylor that won some games early on in an exciting fashion as who he consistently can be.  I see the Taylor we saw the latter part of the season to be more who he is as a player.  I'd be interested if anyone could find me a reputable analyst, player, media personality, basically anyone that believes Taylor Heineke is a better QB than Mitch Trubisky.  Sure, Mitch is the more disappointing player as Chicago moved up to take him in the first round and he failed to sizzle, vs. that of the underdog undrafted player in Taylor.  But as far as apples to apples, not taking draft status or anything into account - I think any football mind rolls with Trubisky over Taylor 100 times out of 100.