The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[JamesMadisonSkins]

We have no glaring holes outside of MLB. We need depth and can certainly upgrade just about anywhere. But with $65m in cap space this would be the off-season to get aggressive. I’d like to add a RB, WR, Guard through the draft so we can keep injecting talent on Offense. But use the FA money on depth and LB and trade 11 and future 1 and another pick or player to move up to 4. 
 

1-2-3 is likely Thibideaux, Hutchinson and Neal. BUT we might be able to get to 2 with Detroit if we offer 11, 2023 1st and Payne. They upgrade on DL which is a need. Keep a high 1st, and go into 2023 with 3 #1 picks. 
 

otherwise the Jets at #4 make sense. They could also use Payne, so we might be able to get to 4 with 11+ Payne and a 2023 mid rounder. 
 

problem is you might not be able to get to 1-2-3 if those teams are locked on their DL/OL talent, so 4 might be the best spot and you probably can’t get there until draft day, hence the insurance or Trubisky or Mariota

[rumplestilskin]

6 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I think after we Won the division I thought we were getting Stafford it would be expensive but would solve this problem  for five year, we did not do it.

In typical Washington fashion we did not get him. Qb will cost double what they would have cost last year because the draft players are not as good as last years draft players and more teams need qb.

It the same thing every year.

I understand now. I agree that missing out out on Stafford was lame. He probably would have got us into the playoffs. Or he would have been shelved due to injury on day one which is our luck. We made a play for him and lost. I get the supply and demand angle but it exists every year and not every team is in a position to go all in. The question is are we? The bottom line is if Ron feels we have a team in place that is equipped with enough core guys that can withstand losing some assets currently on the team and still be solid. AND if he feels that hey can compete in the future while not having the day one draft picks available for two to three years. Thats what the cost is this year and it was the same last year if your looking for a star veteran QB. I get the safe play for the long term is to draft a guy and maybe Ron will do that but as you said this draft has its QB question marks. For me personally, I am more than ready to go in to this season with an unquestioned star as our QB and roll the ****ing dice. I am done with pondering.

[Redskins 2021]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

We have no glaring holes outside of MLB. We need depth and can certainly upgrade just about anywhere. But with $65m in cap space this would be the off-season to get aggressive. I’d like to add a RB, WR, Guard through the draft so we can keep injecting talent on Offense. But use the FA money on depth and LB and trade 11 and future 1 and another pick or player to move up to 4. 
 

1-2-3 is likely Thibideaux, Hutchinson and Neal. BUT we might be able to get to 2 with Detroit if we offer 11, 2023 1st and Payne. They upgrade on DL which is a need. Keep a high 1st, and go into 2023 with 3 #1 picks. 
 

otherwise the Jets at #4 make sense. They could also use Payne, so we might be able to get to 4 with 11+ Payne and a 2023 mid rounder. 
 

problem is you might not be able to get to 1-2-3 if those teams are locked on their DL/OL talent, so 4 might be the best spot and you probably can’t get there until draft day, hence the insurance or Trubisky or Mariota

We could get to two with sweat and first

8 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

I understand now. I agree that missing out out on Stafford was lame. He probably would have got us into the playoffs. Or he would have been shelved due to injury on day one which is our luck. We made a play for him and lost. I get the supply and demand angle but it exists every year and not every team is in a position to go all in. The question is are we? The bottom line is if Ron feels we have a team in place that is equipped with enough core guys that can withstand losing some assets currently on the team and still be solid. AND if he feels that hey can compete in the future while not having the day one draft picks available for two to three years. Thats what the cost is this year and it was the same last year if your looking for a star veteran QB. I get the safe play for the long term is to draft a guy and maybe Ron will do that but as you said this draft has its QB question marks. For me personally, I am more than ready to go in to this season with an unquestioned star as our QB and roll the ****ing dice. I am done with pondering.

I agree get a vet this year and pay for it if we are that close. If we have to pay to move up might as well pay alittle more for vet.

 

[DiscoBob]

14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

otherwise the Jets at #4 make sense. They could also use Payne, so we might be able to get to 4 with 11+ Payne and a 2023 mid rounder. 

 

 

Guarantee that Jets would insist on #11, 2023 #1, and Payne... or maybe even more than that...

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, DiscoBob said:

 

Guarantee that Jets would insist on #11, 2023 #1, and Payne... or maybe even more than that...

it not worth moving up for that

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

@JamesMadisonSkinsI think if we go into this season with nobody but Trubisky/Mariota and Heinicke then quite possibly Ron's job would be in jeopardy. Not immediately, but after this coming season. That's an enormous fail. Neither of those guys are franchise QBs. Reclamation projects don't really work; those guys are both backups.

 

I don't think Dan or the fan base would be very happy with punting on a QB once again. We did it last offseason and that was bad enough. Ron and the FO have pretty much telegraphed how desperate they are for a QB, so Ron knows perfectly well that punting is almost a non-option.

Ron may not even last the whole season, if the QB performs poorly. Only thing, that could save him; is if MarcusMitch leads them to a playoff win.

 

I think if you sign them, you have to get QB in this draft.

[rumplestilskin]

3 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

We could get to two with sweat and first

I agree get a vet this year and pay for it if we are that close. If we have to pay to move up might as well pay alittle more for vet.

 

As we all know a Legit QB can make up for roster deficiencies so its our best shot IMHO. 

[Est.1974]

19 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

But with $65m in cap space this would be the off-season to get aggressive.

I would bet we have nowhere near 65mil in cap space. 

[Conn]

46 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

Mike Ditka.. is that you? lol

 

Rodgers more than likely would not want to come here, I think if we swing for him its just going to cause a whole circus. Draft a QB and let him dual it out with Heiny.

Who cares about the circus. They have to at least look into it and try. Get him on the phone or in a room with a personality like Rivera and you truly never know, Rodgers is a guy who wants ownership of his offense and to be respected and wanted. Nothing says you want a guy like successfully pitching him and trading for him to save your franchise. That will feed his ego, and he’s a HOF caliber player who is still in his prime. Hell, sign Davante Adams for him too. You have to try. I agree it’s unlikely he comes here, but I don’t want them to avoid trying just bc it’ll be a news story, who cares. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by ConnSKINS26

[JamesMadisonSkins]

15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I would bet we have nowhere near 65mil in cap space. 

OTC has us at $50 million but $58 million with 2021 rollover. I don’t think we cut anyone, but if we do maybe Landon a Collins. That would put us at $74m. That seems less likely (maybe a restructure?) than it did last year as we looked ahead. 
 

If we traded up and traded Payne as part of a package, that would put us at $68m. 
 

McLaurin, Settle … they’ll bring that down. Mariota or Mitch would dock us another $10. But still plenty of $$ to spend on MLB, and some depth pieces. 

[Inigo Montoya]

20 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Ron may not even last the whole season, if the QB performs poorly. Only thing, that could save him; is if MarcusMitch leads them to a playoff win.

 

I think if you sign them, you have to get QB in this draft.

I'm really surprised by this thought, Ron will be here. He will be here unless the whole locker room implodes. He's literally the only reason any player would come here other than a serious overpayment, he will be extended next year. 

[cakmoney61]

15 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Me either but if Garapalo plays well this weekend and moves SF along in the playoffs, he's probably gonna cost a #1.   Especially if none of the other better vets become available.  Rumor out of SF last year was they wanted a #1 but nobody would give that up.

They will not get a #1 for him this year either.

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

Guarantee that Jets would insist on #11, 2023 #1, and Payne... or maybe even more than that...

 

That would be WAY more than the value difference between 11 and 4. Probably at least twice the amount if you go by the draft position value chart. I know that's not a hard and fast rule and it's certainly been broken before, but that would be asking for a lot. I could only see them realistically asking for that much if some other teams are in a bidding war with us over that pick.

 

5 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Who cares about the circus. They have to at least look into it and try. Get him on the phone or in a room with a personality like Rivera and you truly never know, Rodgers is a guy who wants ownership of his offense and to be respected and wanted. Nothing says you want a guy like successfully pitching him and trading for him to save your franchise. That will feed his ego, and he’s a HOF caliber player who is still in his prime. He’ll sign Davante Adams for him too. You have to try. I agree it’s unlikely he comes here, but I don’t want them to avoid trying just bc it’ll be a news story, who cares. 

 

How in the world is 38 years old "in his prime"?

[shemp nixon]

24 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

Guarantee that Jets would insist on #11, 2023 #1, and Payne... or maybe even more than that...

Does anyone think there is a QB in this draft worthy of this?

[88Comrade2000]

3 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I'm really surprised by this thought, Ron will be here. He will be here unless the whole locker room implodes. He's literally the only reason any player would come here other than a serious overpayment, he will be extended next year. 

There's no need to extend Ron until after Year 4; if he lasts that long.

[Inigo Montoya]

I think you add Payne to the trade to lower next year's first to a lower pick and I would subscribe to that, because its a poor allocation of resources to the Dline to resign him. 

[samy316]

9 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I'm really surprised by this thought, Ron will be here. He will be here unless the whole locker room implodes. He's literally the only reason any player would come here other than a serious overpayment, he will be extended next year. 

 

Not so fast my friend.  It's not certain that Ron will be here longer than next year.  He's already put himself at a pretty big disadvantage by neglecting to address the QB situation after swinging and missing on Stafford last offseason.  His non-action in drafting a QB cost him big time.  If he had drafted a QB last offseason, he could've afforded himself another 2 seasons after the unexpected division title.  Now we're in a situation where we have an obvious need, everyone knows we have to swing for the fences to acquire a Rodgers/Wilson/Watson, and we're just outside of the top 10 in the NFL draft where a few teams will be picking ahead of us that need QB's as well.

 

Ron HAS to try to get a QB by any means necessary this coming offseason.  I think he realizes that he screwed the pooch last year by trying to win a terrible division, and giving up after not being able to acquire Stafford by trade.  You can tell in his interviews recently that he knows that he's probably not going to see Year 4 of his deal if he can't get that franchise QB we so desperately need. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by samy316

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

I called for Mac Jones last year and everyone balked. Mac Jones was the best rookie QB this year.. who would have thunk it?

 

Kenny Pickett or bust

 

I put up like what it seemed 50 million posts pushing Mac Jones and in detail what I liked him. 😀  I recall @RWJ and one other dude being over the moon for him who posted a lot.  I don't recall your posts about him.  i certainly believe you when you say that was your guy but if you were frequently on that QB thread you would have seen plenty of Mac Jones push.  Yeah he had some critics on that thread, too, I recall because I debated plenty of them. It definitely wasn't "everyone" balked. 

[Inigo Montoya]

2 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

There's no need to extend Ron until after Year 4; if he lasts that long.

based on what, in what world is RR underperforming? FedEx field took out two QBs, Stafford didnt want to come here. What's his biggest issue? Jamin Davis? I'll hold off judgement until he's properly aligned knowing RR and Co had to try and play him out of position due to the need at MLB. 

None of the Washington Circus is his fault, the dude fought cancer and the team loves him. 

[Conn]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

How in the world is 38 years old "in his prime"?

How is playing at an MVP level, right now, at his age not considered being in his prime? He’s healthy and has nothing like Peyton’s neck hurting him or putting a ticking clock on him. Is there any reason to think he’ll exit his prime in the next couple years? Look at Brady—and Rodgers had more physical tools to start with.

 

A guy doesn’t need to have 8-10 years left to be considered in his prime. He needs to be producing at the top of his position, and Rodgers is. Hell, you’d probably consider a 26-27 year old pro bowl RB to be in his prime and he’d likely only have two years of solid career left if he’s lucky. Rodgers has more than that assuming he doesn’t suffer a freak injury. HOF QB’s are built different. He’s in his prime, even if he’s older. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by ConnSKINS26

[Redskins 2021]

7 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

They will not get a #1 for him this year either.

they may, they should not but alot of teams need qb.

[Est.1974]

14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

OTC has us at $50 million but $58 million with 2021 rollover. I don’t think we cut anyone, but if we do maybe Landon a Collins. That would put us at $74m. That seems less likely (maybe a restructure?) than it did last year as we looked ahead. 
 

If we traded up and traded Payne as part of a package, that would put us at $68m. 
 

McLaurin, Settle … they’ll bring that down. Mariota or Mitch would dock us another $10. But still plenty of $$ to spend on MLB, and some depth pieces. 

We wouldn’t save 16mil cutting Collins, only 6mil as there is 10mil dead cap. We also don’t have the minimum required number of players under contract yet either. We do have options to create space but I think it more likely we have about 40mil in effective cap space hitting free agency.

 

Back on track to QB, with that in mind a high end vet acquisition would cause  a major dent in that. Even a guy like Wentz. 
 

Edited January 14, 2022 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[samy316]

2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

based on what, in what world is RR underperforming? FedEx field took out two QBs, Stafford didn't want to come here. What's his biggest issue? Jamin Davis? I'll hold off judgement until he's properly aligned knowing RR and Co had to try and play him out of position due to the need at MLB. 

None of the Washington Circus is his fault, the dude fought cancer and the team loves him. 

 

None of that matters at the end of the day.  The NFL is a results driven business.  Jamin Davis is a clear example of the error of not drafting a rookie QB last offseason.  He overreached in drafting Davis, who we were hoping would be our MLB, but now will most likely be moved to OLB.  That's a huge reach for your 1st round pick in a draft where there were QB's that you could've traded up for.  It doesn't help when our rival picked the DPOY, and he's looking to terrorize the division and the league for the next 10+ years.  Ron messed up last year, and he knows it now unfortunately.  He now has to rectify it by being aggressive this coming offseason.

[DiscoBob]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

That would be WAY more than the value difference between 11 and 4. Probably at least twice the amount if you go by the draft position value chart. I know that's not a hard and fast rule and it's certainly been broken before, but that would be asking for a lot. I could only see them realistically asking for that much if some other teams are in a bidding war with us over that pick.

 

 

Look at the cost for SF to go from 12 -> 3 

 

2021 1st

2022 1st, 3rd

2023 1st

 

Yes, they jumped two extra spots, but that is a way better indication of what it takes to trade up when there is a QB available...

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

How is playing at an MVP level, right now, at his age not considered being in his prime? He’s healthy and has nothing like Peyton’s neck hurting him or putting a ticking clock on him. Is there any reason to think he’ll exit his prime in the next couple years? Look at Brady—and Rodgers had more physical tools to start with.

 

A guy doesn’t need to have 8-10 years left to be considered in his prime. He needs to be producing at the top of his position, and Rodgers is. Hell, you’d probably consider a 26-27 year old pro bowl RB to be in his prime and he’d likely only have two years of solid career left if he’s lucky. Rodgers has more than that assuming he doesn’t suffer a freak injury. HOF QB’s are built different. He’s in his prime, even if he’s older. 

 

Yes he's playing at an MVP level right now but at 38 there's no way to know how long that will last. Big Ben played well in 2018 and 2020 but basically fell off a cliff this season and it's clear that he's done. To me someone who is in their prime is a someone who is playing at a high level and clearly has plenty of runway in front of them.

 

So the point isn't how he's playing right now, it's how long that will last, especially when you're talking about potentially giving up a boatload of picks and/or players for a guy.

 

And Brady (as always) is a complete outlier. Most QBs are generally done once they get close to 40. Hell, the Pats (and plenty of others) thought Brady was done after a couple of mostly subpart years, so they let him walk.