The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Both also put us in a place of perpetual 8-9 or 9-8 seasons of maybe maybe not making the playoffs and getting bounced quickly when we do make a playoff.  Above average QBs don’t beat the elite QBs and top teams in the playoffs without generational defenses. 

So drafting a QB is no good? And any other FA outside of Rodgers, Wilson and Watson aren't considered elite so why field a team. I mean, I am all for going after Watson or Wilson but I don't see them having any interest in Washington

So we stick with TH and Allen and hope 2023 brings more opportunity?

 

[wit33]

 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I was talking purely about FA because the poster I was responding to seemed to basically be saying to ignore drafting a QB and just hope for a top FA QB at some nebulous point in the future, which I think is dumb.

 

As far as drafting an elite QB outside of the first round that nobody expects to become elite...it basically doesn't happen. Or to be more precise, it happens rarely enough that you might as well say it doesn't happen. Hoping for that is basically hoping that if you buy $1 lottery tickets often enough you'll will a million dollars.

 

Everyone wants the next Brady. It will almost certainly never happen again.

 

There's a reason that teams who need QBs also draft them in the 1st round instead of later rounds. Because, even though the bust rate is still up there for QBs in the 1st, it's WAY better than QBs taken after the 1st round.

 

Do you have a line in the first round you wouldn’t draft a QB? I agree most elite QBs come in the first round, but I say it’s much more likely within the top 10 historically. Would you entertain not drafting a QB after the 12th pick in the first round, due to the resounding data that these guys will not become elite?

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Do you have a line in the first round you wouldn’t draft a QB? I agree most elite QBs come in the first round, but I say it’s much more likely within the top 10 historically. Would you entertain not drafting a QB after the 12th pick in the first round, due to the resounding data that these guys will not become elite?

 

Anything beyond pick 16.5 is completely useless.

 

Nah, I'd consider anything in the first round for the most part. My main gripe wasn't with where in the 1st round, just with trying to rely on picks outside of the 1st round to find a gem QB. It would be amazing if we got a mid or late round elite QB gem ala Brady, but it would also be amazing if I won $20 million on a $1 lottery ticket while having sex with Scarlett Johansson in a Ferrari. Both are technically possible, but insanely unlikely. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Great job with the list. Only one Qb I think you missed is Kirk Cousins who I saw rumored today to be in a trade for Baker Mayfield. Also , J Goff I think could be had. 

 I could see them trying to sell us on Bridgewater. They can get him he is a step up I guess. 

What does the year after look like for Fa? I think if things go poorly next year we will be looking at coaching changes.

I mean, Kurt isn't coming here.  

 

Now, if the Brown/Vikings swap QBs, then that takes Mayfield off the market. Which I think would be unfortunate for in general because the more QBs on the market, the better for us.

 

I don't think there is any way Teddy is a "headliner."  I think he's a compliment.  So, they draft Pickett, and sign Teddy, and say, "Teddy knows the system, knows the coaches, and can help teach Pickett the system.

 

However, one thing to note on Pickett.  I wouldn't be shocked if the Steelers, if they like him, trade up to get him.  They will need a QB, and he's a local, and by all accounts pretty popular.  It would make a lot of sense.  So if we want him, we'd probably have to be willing to go up a few spots to get him.

[Redskins 2021]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, Kurt isn't coming here.  

 

Now, if the Brown/Vikings swap QBs, then that takes Mayfield off the market. Which I think would be unfortunate for in general because the more QBs on the market, the better for us.

 

I don't think there is any way Teddy is a "headliner."  I think he's a compliment.  So, they draft Pickett, and sign Teddy, and say, "Teddy knows the system, knows the coaches, and can help teach Pickett the system.

 

However, one thing to note on Pickett.  I wouldn't be shocked if the Steelers, if they like him, trade up to get him.  They will need a QB, and he's a local, and by all accounts pretty popular.  It would make a lot of sense.  So if we want him, we'd probably have to be willing to go up a few spots to get him.

I agree Kurt not coming here. Steelers may move up but I think they want a vet. I don't think Bridgewater is a headliner but I could see management try to sell us on him. I don't think between the four qb in draft there alot of differences.

 

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I agree Kurt not coming here. Steelers may move up but I think they want a vet. I don't think Bridgewater is a headliner but I could see management try to sell us on him. I don't think between the four qb in draft there alot of differences.

 

Bridgewater starting days are done. I mean, I guess he could come in as a package with a 1st round QB draft pick. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Bridgewater starting days are done. I mean, I guess he could come in as a package with a 1st round QB draft pick. 

Which is exactly what I said.  He could come here as a backup/spot starter because he knows Scott and the systems.  

 

But I don't think there's any way Ron and company would try and sell us that he is the future starter, or even a 17 game starter in 2022.

 

I think one of these people will be "the guy" (most are unlikely)

 

Aaron Rodgers

Russel Wilson

Deshaun Watson

David Derek Carr

Baker Mayfield

Kenny Pickett

Matt Corral

 

There will almost certainly be a second guy who comes in as well, like a Teddy, or Mitch, or Mariota, or somebody like that.  

 

I think there will be 2 QBs signed this off-season.  TH will go to 3rd string (where he should be). Unless they somehow pull of Rodgers/Wilson, in which case they probably just leave TH as the backup.  

Edited January 5, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Rufus T Firefly]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Which is exactly what I said.  He could come here as a backup/spot starter because he knows Scott and the systems.  

 

But I don't think there's any way Ron and company would try and sell us that he is the future starter, or even a 17 game starter in 2022.

 

I think one of these people will be "the guy" (most are unlikely)

 

Aaron Rodgers

Russel Wilson

Deshaun Watson

David Carr

Baker Mayfield

Kenny Pickett

Matt Corral

 

There will almost certainly be a second guy who comes in as well, like a Teddy, or Mitch, or Mariota, or somebody like that.  

 

I think there will be 2 QBs signed this off-season.  TH will go to 3rd string (where he should be). Unless they somehow pull of Rodgers/Wilson, in which case they probably just leave TH as the backup.  

David Carr would probably come real cheap. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, Rufus T Firefly said:

David Carr would probably come real cheap. 

[Redskins 2021]

45 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Bridgewater starting days are done. I mean, I guess he could come in as a package with a 1st round QB draft pick. 

Unfortunately, are starter next year will probably be Trubisky,Mariotta, or Bridgewater with most likely a rookie back up

[wit33]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Which is exactly what I said.  He could come here as a backup/spot starter because he knows Scott and the systems.  

 

But I don't think there's any way Ron and company would try and sell us that he is the future starter, or even a 17 game starter in 2022.

 

I think one of these people will be "the guy" (most are unlikely)

 

Aaron Rodgers

Russel Wilson

Deshaun Watson

David Derek Carr

Baker Mayfield

Kenny Pickett

Matt Corral

 

There will almost certainly be a second guy who comes in as well, like a Teddy, or Mitch, or Mariota, or somebody like that.  

 

I think there will be 2 QBs signed this off-season.  TH will go to 3rd string (where he should be). Unless they somehow pull of Rodgers/Wilson, in which case they probably just leave TH as the backup.  
 

 

 

Nothing I’m too hung up on, but think the ship has sailed for Bridgewater to even be a placeholder. Maybe like you say though, his experience in this system elevates his value to Washington.

 

Not saying it’s a wide margin but Mariota and Trubisky are better sells to lead a potential layoff roster next year than Bridgewater. Bridgewater with some running ability would be amazing, dare I say Alex Smith levels

[mistertim]

Signing Bridgewater seems pretty pointless to me. He would probably cost a pretty penny and IMO he isn't any better than Heinicke...so why even bother? At least with Trubisky and Mariota they're upgrades to TH, even if from a pure talent perspective. Only slight upgrades, so I'm really not sold at all on either of them, but still upgrades. Teddy IMO isn't.

[lovemaskins]

17 hours ago, DWinzit said:

So drafting a QB is no good? And any other FA outside of Rodgers, Wilson and Watson aren't considered elite so why field a team. I mean, I am all for going after Watson or Wilson but I don't see them having any interest in Washington

So we stick with TH and Allen and hope 2023 brings more opportunity?

 

Nah not saying not try, just that the average place holder, known quantity average QB is where most teams are and are trying to find a better one.  I’m with the thinking of swing for the fences until you get one or pay for one.  Or keep drafting until you get one.

Most here are in agreement Kirk Cousins wasn’t the answer and he’s above average, so why bring in a guy worse than him to finish 8-8. That’s all I was saying.

Edited January 6, 2022 by lovemaskins

[Mooka]

Bridgewater had at least 2 concussions this year and wasn't he almost paralyzed? 

 

Not saying he won't be ready to go next season but you have to have a rookie behind him if you go that route. 

Otherwise it'll just be a repeat of this year and we'll be watching Heinicke finish the season. 

[Warhead36]

Bridgewater stinks. I'd take Heinicke over him.

[mistertim]

44 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Nah not saying not try, just that the average place holder, known quantity average QB is where most teams are and are trying to find a better one.  I’m with the thinking of swing for the fences until you get one or pay for one.  Or keep drafting until you get one.

Most here are in agreement Kirk Cousins wasn’t the answer and he’s above average, so why bring in a guy worse than him to finish 8-8. That’s all I was saying.

 

Yeah this is basically why the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, why the Giants are likely to move on from Jones, why Miami moved on from Tannehill, and why the Browns may move on from Mayfield. Alex Smith, Baker Mayfield, Ryan Tannehill, and Daniel Jones are decent QBs (hell, the Chiefs had just made a playoff run with Smith when they drafted Mahomes) but for the most part teams don't want average QBs...they want the elite ones. So they just keep trying. It doesn't always work, but at least they're swinging for the fences.

 

The Skins with Kirk was a bit of a different situation, but I was still ok with moving on from him. We had an incompetent asshole as GM who couldn't possibly have handled the Kirk situation worse even if he was a drunk 8 year old who didn't know anything about football. Kirk is certainly above average in most categories, but my main issue with him, and it seems it's still been an issue throughout his post-Skins career, is he's completely anti-clutch and rarely plays big in big moments. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, mistertim said:

Signing Bridgewater seems pretty pointless to me. He would probably cost a pretty penny and IMO he isn't any better than Heinicke...so why even bother? At least with Trubisky and Mariota they're upgrades to TH, even if from a pure talent perspective. Only slight upgrades, so I'm really not sold at all on either of them, but still upgrades. Teddy IMO isn't.

Let me be clear, I don't really want any of them.  

 

I do think Teddy would be an upgrade to TH.  Maybe not a huge upgrade, but somewhat of an upgrade. He does have a better arm, and he does know the system, and it could be a good fit.

 

I am slightly intrigued by Mariota.  Less so with Mitch.  

 

But none of these are the answer.  The answer is either one to the top guys through a trade or the draft.  Everything else is just a stopgap.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Let me be clear, I don't really want any of them.  

 

I do think Teddy would be an upgrade to TH.  Maybe not a huge upgrade, but somewhat of an upgrade. He does have a better arm, and he does know the system, and it could be a good fit.

 

I am slightly intrigued by Mariota.  Less so with Mitch.  

 

But none of these are the answer.  The answer is either one to the top guys through a trade or the draft.  Everything else is just a stopgap.

 

Yeah I suppose from an arm strength perspective, but Teddy actually reminds me a fair amount of Heinicke. Mediocre game manager QB who's usually relatively efficient, but can make some off schedule plays with his legs when need be. But Teddy does have a stronger arm...so I guess that's sort of like upgrading from a McDonalds cheeseburger to a McDonalds quarter pounder. It's a little better but still McDonalds. Only in this scenario the quarter pounder would probably cost 10 times what the cheeseburger does. To me that makes Teddy a pass.

[Redskins 2021]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah this is basically why the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, why the Giants are likely to move on from Jones, why Miami moved on from Tannehill, and why the Browns may move on from Mayfield. Alex Smith, Baker Mayfield, Ryan Tannehill, and Daniel Jones are decent QBs (hell, the Chiefs had just made a playoff run with Smith when they drafted Mahomes) but for the most part teams don't want average QBs...they want the elite ones. So they just keep trying. It doesn't always work, but at least they're swinging for the fences.

 

The Skins with Kirk was a bit of a different situation, but I was still ok with moving on from him. We had an incompetent asshole as GM who couldn't possibly have handled the Kirk situation worse even if he was a drunk 8 year old who didn't know anything about football. Kirk is certainly above average in most categories, but my main issue with him, and it seems it's still been an issue throughout his post-Skins career, is he's completely anti-clutch and rarely plays big in big moments. 

Moving on was fine maybe even the rite thing to do. Not getting anything for him was not.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Mr. Sinister]

Keep drafting quarterbacks until you hit with one

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, lovemaskins said:

Nah not saying not try, just that the average place holder, known quantity average QB is where most teams are and are trying to find a better one.  I’m with the thinking of swing for the fences until you get one or pay for one.  Or keep drafting until you get one.

Most here are in agreement Kirk Cousins wasn’t the answer and he’s above average, so why bring in a guy worse than him to finish 8-8. That’s all I was saying.

I can appreciate the swing for the fence and have been in favor of attempting to acquire Wilson or Watson, but slim chances they want Washington.

I am in favor of improving current status with a Trubisky and Corral/Howell/Willis.

That seems to be the most swing for the fence one can do this year. Guess I was just wondering what your thought was on improving our 8-8 status

[mistertim]

If we went with Trubisky I'd be more ok with picking Willis. He has a really high ceiling but IMO he's also super raw and will take time to develop into an NFL QB and not a NFL RB who also happens to play some QB, which I don't really want.

 

So if there's a placeholder like Trubisky (or Mariota possibly) then there would probably be a bit less stress to get Willis into the game immediately and they could develop him properly and give him time and space to do so.

 

Then again, as soon as Trubisky has a horrible game, the fans will immediately start screaming for Willis...so there's that.

[Warhead36]

If you want to sustain success in the NFL the proven method is to draft a QB in the 1st round. If there is nobody good enough this year get a stopgap and draft someone in like round 3 or 4. If you're lucky and hit into a Dak or Wilson or even Cousins type, then great. If not, draft a QB in the 1st round next year.

[lovemaskins]

20 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I can appreciate the swing for the fence and have been in favor of attempting to acquire Wilson or Watson, but slim chances they want Washington.

I am in favor of improving current status with a Trubisky and Corral/Howell/Willis.

That seems to be the most swing for the fence one can do this year. Guess I was just wondering what your thought was on improving our 8-8 status

I get trying to upgrade, in theory if we’d stayed healthy this year and had a solid starter, let’s say Ryan tannehill or maybe jimmy G, we’d be a tough team and may make a little noise if we make the playoffs, but once you face off with the Aaron Rodgers / Brady’s of the world, you lose.  See Tennessee last year. They were pounding Kansas City, got up to a good lead and on queue, got rolled by Mahommes. 
 

For my remaining fandom, I want a guy I know we got a shot with. Who wants to face Burrow and the Bengals right now. No one. You’re excited if you’re a fan of the Chargers or Buffalo. You’ve got the next generation of talent. Rodgers and Brady are done in the next 2-5 years and then it’ll be the young guns turn. I want one of them.  I don’t know how but I want that.  And picking 12-18 doesn’t help us get there, which is my hesitancy of a Mitch Trubisky / bridgewater type.

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

I get trying to upgrade, in theory if we’d stayed healthy this year and had a solid starter, let’s say Ryan tannehill or maybe jimmy G, we’d be a tough team and may make a little noise if we make the playoffs, but once you face off with the Aaron Rodgers / Brady’s of the world, you lose.  See Tennessee last year. They were pounding Kansas City, got up to a good lead and on queue, got rolled by Mahommes. 
 

For my remaining fandom, I want a guy I know we got a shot with. Who wants to face Burrow and the Bengals right now. No one. You’re excited if you’re a fan of the Chargers or Buffalo. You’ve got the next generation of talent. Rodgers and Brady are done in the next 2-5 years and then it’ll be the young guns turn. I want one of them.  I don’t know how but I want that.  And picking 12-18 doesn’t help us get there, which is my hesitancy of a Mitch Trubisky / bridgewater type.

I get the hesitance, but need to keep trying. Staying stagnant kills. I felt like that's what we did last year by signing Fitz (even if he has stayed healthy), he was too old and on a one year deal. I am glad TH was given plenty of opportunity. But we know the ceiling is low. At least Mitch/Mariota types who had success in college and had pressure and expectations removed might be worthy of a second chance. Plus not requiring trade capital or huge contracts makes them interesting.

 

Having a 1st rounder too, gives us two chances hit pay dirt even if it is the 12 pick, might be the 2nd ranked QB and the teams top guy. Who knows but keep trying