The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is no scenario where Heinicke is our starter next season, so who cares. If we draft Howell and Zappe, Heinicke can be the QB2 and probably a great mentor. 

I think you're being short sided. He can come back easily, same way it happened this year, if we can't get Carr or Rodgers or Wilson and are left going after guys who are no better than Heinicke. Then we bring him back and draft his replacement. Who starts is a question but it could easily be Taylor to start the season while the young guy is getting ready.

[mistertim]

I think Heinicke going into 2022 as the starter is definitely possible, but it depends on what we do in the draft and FA/trade...as well as what kind of QB we draft.

 

Obviously if we somehow managed to trade for Carr (I still say it's nonsense and he's not going anywhere) then obviously he'd be the starter.

 

If we draft a 1st round QB who're more "pro-ready" then he could get the nod. If not, then the 1st rounder might sit and learn with Heinicke as the bridge. I'd say Pickett is probably the most pro-ready of the top prospects, with Willis being the least. Corral and Howell I'd say are in the middle.

[DWinzit]

29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

If we draft a 1st round QB who're more "pro-ready" then he could get the nod. If not, then the 1st rounder might sit and learn with Heinicke as the bridge. I'd say Pickett is probably the most pro-ready of the top prospects, with Willis being the least. Corral and Howell I'd say are in the middle.

I hope we do better than just drafting another 1st round whore 😜

TH as a bridge makes perfect sense with his abilities and contract unless they bring in a Carr type. 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I hope we do better than just drafting another 1st round whore 😜

TH as a bridge makes perfect sense with his abilities and contract unless they bring in a Carr type. 

 

 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is no scenario where Heinicke is our starter next season, so who cares. 

 

TH wins a SB. He is the starter next year. There is no such thing as a no scenario. I just gave you one.  

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by zskins

[DEASkins]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is no scenario where Heinicke is our starter next season, so who cares. If we draft Howell and Zappe, Heinicke can be the QB2 and probably a great mentor. 

I'm not a Heinicke lover but if he balls out the rest of the season and wins a playoff game or two then he probably would have a good shot at being the starter next year. That's why they play the games despite what we think

[Koolblue13]

1 poor decision maker

2 throws a wobbly Turkey of a football

3 moxie and other buzz words

4 has no business being an nfl starter

 

Things taylor and I have in common. 

[DEASkins]

56 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

1 poor decision maker

2 throws a wobbly Turkey of a football

3 moxie and other buzz words

4 has no business being an nfl starter

 

Things taylor and I have in common. 

So what happens if your above points continue to happen, but Heinicke wins despite the 3 flaws he shares with you?

[Koolblue13]

51 minutes ago, DEASkins said:

So what happens if your above points continue to happen, but Heinicke wins despite the 3 flaws he shares with you?

I try out

[DEASkins]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I try out

Veteran minimum sounds pretty good, but "Happy Thanksgiving" will be paying your salary

Edited December 19, 2021 by DEASkins

[Jericho]

13 hours ago, zskins said:

 

But why? Carr is not elite.

 

It's a good question and I think speaks to fact many people on this board vastly overrate Carr. He's not a bad player and he's clearly better than any QB the team currently has, but he'll be 31 in a few months and has had one winning season in 8 years with the Raiders. I'll grant you that wins aren't the end all/be all of evaluating a QB, but at some point you want to see actual results. I mean Kirk Cousins has 4 winning seasons and Andy Dalton has 5. The Raiders may not be the best run organization, but they're also far from the worst. It seems pretty clear what Carr is and I'm not sure why people think Washington is going to provide significantly better personnel to suddenly elevate him into being a "winner". The big problem with trading for Carr is you'll need to give up good assets AND pay him a lot of money. That's great if the goal is to get to around .500 for a few seasons and then fall back as Carr declines. But that's pretty underwhelming. He seems like a guy you should trade a 3rd rounder for, not 2 firsts. Trading two firsts is basically like waiving the white flag on being anything noteworthy for the next 5 years. You'll probably be okay if you do it. You won't be the Lions and you might make the playoffs once or twice and get smashed by the Cardinals or Rams or whoever the actual good teams are. But as a fan it seems very underwhelming. And basically what the team has done for decades. Give up premium draft picks for past their prime mediocre players that don't move the needle much. If the team was already good to great, this might make sense. But it hasn't had double digit wins since 2012 and hasn't had at least 11 wins since 1991. It's a lot to pay to maybe get a 6th or 7th seed.

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

It's a good question and I think speaks to fact many people on this board vastly overrate Carr. He's not a bad player and he's clearly better than any QB the team currently has, but he'll be 31 in a few months and has had one winning season in 8 years with the Raiders. I'll grant you that wins aren't the end all/be all of evaluating a QB, but at some point you want to see actual results. I mean Kirk Cousins has 4 winning seasons and Andy Dalton has 5. The Raiders may not be the best run organization, but they're also far from the worst. It seems pretty clear what Carr is and I'm not sure why people think Washington is going to provide significantly better personnel to suddenly elevate him into being a "winner". The big problem with trading for Carr is you'll need to give up good assets AND pay him a lot of money. That's great if the goal is to get to around .500 for a few seasons and then fall back as Carr declines. But that's pretty underwhelming. He seems like a guy you should trade a 3rd rounder for, not 2 firsts. Trading two firsts is basically like waiving the white flag on being anything noteworthy for the next 5 years. You'll probably be okay if you do it. You won't be the Lions and you might make the playoffs once or twice and get smashed by the Cardinals or Rams or whoever the actual good teams are. But as a fan it seems very underwhelming. And basically what the team has done for decades. Give up premium draft picks for past their prime mediocre players that don't move the needle much. If the team was already good to great, this might make sense. But it hasn't had double digit wins since 2012 and hasn't had at least 11 wins since 1991. It's a lot to pay to maybe get a 6th or 7th seed.

It is like last year, they need to improve their QB situation and he is a better option....he is not worth trading away all that draft capital. He isn't Watson, Rogers or Wilson yet is sounds like some are willing to trade away almost that much for a meh, Carr.

The recent estimate on a possible Bridgewater contract probably promoted this talk. I was more on the Trubisky bandwagon whether via FA or if they could have pulled off the pretradeline deal. He would have been cheaper yet to me, a similar. 

At this point, I want them to draft a QB. I do not think any of the prospects will be ready to start game one next year so holding TH and his contract makes sense.

I do not want Allen to be on the roster. The team needs to improve their roster and we need to be better than him, he has realized his potential.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by DWinzit

[Thinking Skins]

15 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

It is like last year, they need to improve their QB situation and he is a better option....he is not worth trading away all that draft capital. He isn't Watson, Rogers or Wilson yet is sounds like some are willing to trade away almost that much for a meh, Carr.

The recent estimate on a possible Bridgewater contract probably promoted this talk. I was more on the Trubisky bandwagon whether via FA or if they could have pulled off the pretradeline deal. He would have been cheaper yet to me, a similar. 

At this point, I want them to draft a QB. I do not think any of the prospects will be ready to start game one next year so holding TH and his contract makes sense.

I do not want Allen to be on the roster. The team needs to improve their roster and we need to be better than him, he has realized his potential.

 

 

This is where I am. I haven't put in anywhere near the amount of time researching prospects as some here have but I'm good keeping TH and brining in a rookie to develop (either a first rounder or a later one). If the rookie is ready to start, give them the reigns. But if not, let TH do his thing until the rookie is ready. 

[Koolblue13]

Carr has been a good QB for years and when he had a legit WR, he was great. Look at his production this year before he lost his coach and WR. He was one of, if not the best in the league.

 

Put Carr at QB and Terry is a top 5 WR and everything opens up. He's one of the top QBs for 4rth Q comebacks, so he's definitely no Kurt Cousins. 

 

I'm not calling him Brady or Rodgers, but he's better than Ryan and definitely Taylor ****ing Heinicke or Fitz and a lot younger than all of them. 

 

The last few years of Carrs career, if he's had a decent coach and even 1 legit target, he's been successful playing in one of the better conferences. 

 

You add a wide open passing game to this team and we are absolutely locks for the playoffs and competing for the SB.

[skins island connection]

So, they bring in Carr next year. 

He starts out ok, not great but not bad, say 7-4, then goes through a slump.

They will turn on him instantly, demanding to trade him, find someone else, he's washed up. 

 

Nothing would make this fan base happy, but the vision stops at the QB; one OC is as good as the next { blah blah blah } same thing with WRs, o-line, etc.

It takes a certain chemistry to create a successful team, but the focus is always on the QB. Having jags for a receiving corp means nothing will ever get better. Having a RB who doesn't like the feel of a football doesn't help, and predictable play calling seals the fate. While I agree that TH's arm may not be the strongest, its not the stop all/end all for this team, but even getting a QB with a big arm will not put this team on another level.

It requires an OC and QB coach who can recognize the strengths/flaws and game plan them against opponents, WRs who can run crisp routes and are fast, and at least one tall WR who can win the one-on-one battles, and of course a RB who can hang onto the football. McLaurin is the best WR by far on this team, but compared to other WRs in the league he is slightly higher than middle of the pack, its just that he's way better than any other WR on this team that causes people to put him on another level, but thats not really the case against others.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I get folks being apprehensive about signing a guy like Carr to a big contract, particularly from a fanbase that was hellbent on not paying Kirk.  Very similar dudes.  They don't have the wins to back up the brinks truck for...I get that.  But it just sounds wierd coming from the fanbase so starved for a QB, they talked themselves into Taylor Heineke being somewhere near a top half of the league QB because he's got the 'IT' factor and 'moxie'.  Phew.

[Koolblue13]

Who cares if the fan base turns on him. We'll turn on anyone. Look how irrationally angry I am at Heinicke. Itll be 100 times worse with a rookie.

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get folks being apprehensive about signing a guy like Carr to a big contract, particularly from a fanbase that was hellbent on not paying Kirk.  Very similar dudes.  They don't have the wins to back up the brinks truck for...I get that.  But it just sounds wierd coming from the fanbase so starved for a QB, they talked themselves into Taylor Heineke being somewhere near a top half of the league QB because he's got the 'IT' factor and 'moxie'.  Phew.

Taylor Heinicke has "it".

 

TH+it = no nfl QB.

[skinny21]

Carr would be a pretty big gamble IMO.  It’s a gamble I might be ok with, depending on just how much it affects our ability to re-sign/add talent to the team.  If it doesn’t work out, the loss of picks (2 1st rounders+?) and Carr’s hefty contract could inhibit roster improvement significantly.  If they can at least re-sign some key guys, this roster has shown an ability to compete with most teams, so Carr could elevate us to contender status… which is what it’s all about after all.

[skinny21]

55 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get folks being apprehensive about signing a guy like Carr to a big contract, particularly from a fanbase that was hellbent on not paying Kirk.  Very similar dudes.  They don't have the wins to back up the brinks truck for...I get that.  But it just sounds wierd coming from the fanbase so starved for a QB, they talked themselves into Taylor Heineke being somewhere near a top half of the league QB because he's got the 'IT' factor and 'moxie'.  Phew.

Or… they talked themselves into it because he’s cheap, showed growth, was putting up (roughly) middle of the road stats, got the team rallying around him, has dealt with a lot of adversity, and had a hand in beating the previous Super Bowl winner/getting us into position to make the playoffs.

With that said, you’re not wrong overall.  I do hesitate giving up big money (and significant picks) for a non elite qb.

53 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Who cares if the fan base turns on him. We'll turn on anyone. Look how irrationally angry I am at Heinicke. Itll be 100 times worse with a rookie.

Taylor Heinicke has "it".

 

TH+it = no nfl QB.

I quoted you to argue that Heinicke has done enough to show he can be a starter in this league, but after thinking more about your “irrationally angry” comment, I’m gonna pivot.  I agree about us turning on a qb, however, I think we’ll be in a position where we can give a rookie time on the bench (if need be), and then be patient enough to deal with some early ups and downs as a starter (as long as they show flashes).  Surely they can’t be worse than Haskins…

Would be a big help if we could keep a solid oline and the defense could carry forward (to next year) their performance from the past several weeks.

[wit33]

History of Carr says he will lead a team to below average to average returns at the QB spot. I can see it now, the ones who think he’s solid and in support of the move will defend him and blame the defense versus the other side saying he’s unable to make enough plays when needed. No thank you.
 

These type of QBs must provide value financially for me to get on board, ESPECIALLY if they can’t run. 

 

I want Ron and company to choose their guy in the draft that they believe will assist the franchise in becoming elite. Ron’s super power as a coach is identifying hard working good football players and getting the best out of them, I’d like to see that play out with a young QB.

 

Done with the safe plays that protect FOs and coaches from being great or terrible. They get rich while the fan base is forced to support mediocrity. Pass. 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by wit33

[88Comrade2000]

16 minutes ago, wit33 said:

History of Carr says he will lead a team to below average to average returns at the QB spot. I can see it now, the ones who think he’s solid and in support of the move will defend him and blame the defense versus the other side saying he’s unable to make enough plays when needed. No thank you.
 

These type of QBs must provide value financially for me to get on board, ESPECIALLY if they can’t run. 

 

I want Ron and company to choose their guy in the draft that they believe will assist the franchise in becoming elite. Ron’s super power as a coach is identifying hard working good football players and getting the best out of them, I’d like to see that play out with a young QB.

 

Done with the safe plays that protect FOs and coaches from being great or terrible. They get rich while the fan base is forced to support mediocrity. Pass. 

 

 

 

Uh, Ron is definition of playing it safe; at least as our coach.

 

Ron so far in his DC tenure is mediocre. 
 

7-9 in year one that yields a division title.

8-9 most likely in year 2, that could yield a wild card.

 

What has hurt Ron; he didn’t go big for QB in year 1. Just traded for Kyle.

 

Year 2, he signs a journeyman who couldn’t even last one game.

 

He absolutely needs to hit on qb in 22 or it will eventually be his undoing.

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Uh, Ron is definition of playing it safe; at least as our coach.

 

Ron so far in his DC tenure is mediocre. 

 

He absolutely needs to hit on qb in 22 or it will eventually be his undoing.

Yup, and Ron knows it.  He has had a starting QB on the top of his wish list for 2 years now. reportedly even tried to move for Trubisky last month.

 

Wilson won't come to Washington and can't see Rodgers wanting to either.

 

The only way I see Ron not playing it safe and seeking a high end QB......go hard at Watson if he is cleared. 

 

If that fails they would need to identify a top pick and move 100% on that. There is not a QB this year worthy of tht top pick

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

 

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yup, and Ron knows it.  He has had a starting QB on the top of his wish list for 2 years now. reportedly even tried to move for Trubisky last month.

 

Wilson won't come to Washington and can't see Rodgers wanting to either.

 

The only way I see Ron not playing it safe and seeking a high end QB......go hard at Watson if he is cleared. 

 

If that fails they would need to identify a top pick and move 100% on that. There is not a QB this year worthy of tht top pick

 

 

None of those guys are coming here. Wilson and Watson both have no-trade clauses in their contracts, so they get veto power over any potential trade. We'd have to be on their short list of teams they'd want to go to and I think there's about a .1% chance that we are; nobody really wants to come here for the most part. Rodgers doesn't have a no-trade clause but he's a dude who would probably throw a temper tantrum and refuse to play if he was traded to a team he didn't want to go to.

 

That leaves trading for a guy like Carr, trying to sign a super mediocre FA like Winston, Teddy B, or Mariota, or drafting a QB in the 1st round.

 

And I agree about Ron. Barring Heinicke going out and tearing it up for the last few games and taking us deep into the playoffs on his arm, Ron knows he's on the hot seat as far as QB goes. They know it's a huge hole and they know they need to try and fill it sooner rather than later.

Edited December 19, 2021 by mistertim

[DWinzit]

Watson has named teams he would be interested in trading to. Some of those teams have no interest at this point. He would need to change his thoughts, perhaps he could be persuaded to look to Washington. You never know, they could be the only team in the hunt by that time, landscapes change. 

 

To trade for a Carr or sign a Trubisky, Bridgewater, Mariota type would mean that's their future due to the expense...That is not the greatest plan unless you can get one at a decent price and plan to draft a guy fairly high

Edited December 19, 2021 by DWinzit
edit-corrected grammar