The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinsfan66]

7 minutes ago, Destino said:

I’m not expecting CJ Stroud. Hell, I’m not expecting year two of CJ Stroud to match year one. He had an absurd year in terms of limiting turnovers and mistakes. 
 

I am expecting a QB that looks the part. Sam Howell did for about half a season and then fell apart. How good i expect them to play largely depends on if they’re playing behind a good offensive line, or the wet toilet paper we have currently. 
 

Then we should build the line if that is the problem. Maybe if Howell had a line he would have played better too? Just get it right with what ever we do.   

[Warhead36]

Expecting any rookie to be as good as Stroud is a bit high of a bar. I think its possible, especially because we do have some good WRs and experienced quality veteran TE and RB, but the OL is still a work in progress and its a brand new system for everyone. There will be ups and downs. 

 

My guess if we draft Maye and if he starts right away is that he'll struggle some early, but by mid season he'll figure it out and the last 4-5 games of the season he'll play at top 10 QB level.

[Conn]

23 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Nothing silly, this team has sucked for too long, if we have the right staff they will make the right picks. Is your bar to low? Houston hit last year and they were the worst, it can happen. It would not be healthy for this team to miss at no.2 again. This pick needs to hit or nothing changes. 

This is a different point than your previous post I responded to. They can hit on the pick and not experience a season like Stroud/the Texans had last year. That’s unrealistic as a base expectation—even though we all hope for it. You’re either moving the goalposts intentionally or don’t have a solid handle on what exactly you’re arguing, idk which. Feels like you’re just looking to end up dissatisfied which is an interesting (and comfortable) defense mechanism for fans who have suffered for so long watching this team. In many ways, failure is home. It’s familiar. It seems like you’re fishing for ways to be prepared for this regime’s failure before it can even get off the ground. 

Edited April 9 by Conn

[skinsfan66]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So you're saying that anyone who doesn't expect our rookie QB to come in and have one of the single greatest rookie seasons in NFL history is setting a "low bar"?

 

I think it may be the other way around and you're setting an overly high bar.

Not expecting the same old thing. A low bar is not cutting it for me. To many really good players out there to miss with the 2nd overall. 

[Conn]

1 minute ago, skinsfan66 said:

Not expecting the same old thing. A low bar is not cutting it for me. To many really good players out there to miss with the 2nd overall. 

Again, that’s not what people are responding to. Please keep track of your own posts 

[Voice_of_Reason]

30 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

But this coupled with all these "reports" about Daniels being the pick has me worried. Peters is a first time GM and it wouldn't shock me if he succumbed to some of the smoke(though I don't think he will).

Just my $.02, but I wouldn’t be worried of the pick is Daniels over Maye. 
 

I know everybody has a preference, and I lean more Maye than Daniels also. 
 

But Daniels actually could be an outstanding QB.  Maybe a somewhat different style QB but he has the ability to be really good.  
 

The way I look at it, if they go Daniels vs Maye, 2 things are true:

 

1. They believe the things which are concerning about Maye are legitimate and hard to fix.  Accuracy, mechanics, slightly long delivery, etc. While I might minimize those things, if professional coaches and scouts think they’re really issues, they might be. 
 

2. They believe they can fit Daniels into a system which can be explosive down field while continuing to move the sticks in a variety of ways.

 

If that’s where they land, I’m fine with it.

 

I also acknowledge there’s a 60% chance they’ll be wrong with either pick because that’s basically the bust rate if QB2.  So, it might work, it might not.  
 

But I trust Peters in evaluation.

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Not expecting the same old thing. A low bar is not cutting it for me. To many really good players out there to miss with the 2nd overall. 

 

So if our rookie QB doesn't have a historically good rookie season then we missed with the pick?

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Just my $.02, but I wouldn’t be worried of the pick is Daniels over Maye. 
 

I know everybody has a preference, and I lean more Maye than Daniels also. 
 

But Daniels actually could be an outstanding QB.  Maybe a somewhat different style QB but he has the ability to be really good.  
 

The way I look at it, if they go Daniels vs Maye, 2 things are true:

 

1. They believe the things which are concerning about Maye are legitimate and hard to fix.  Accuracy, mechanics, slightly long delivery, etc. While I might minimize those things, if professional coaches and scouts think they’re really issues, they might be. 
 

2. They believe they can fit Daniels into a system which can be explosive down field while continuing to move the sticks in a variety of ways.

 

If that’s where they land, I’m fine with it.

 

I also acknowledge there’s a 60% chance they’ll be wrong with either pick because that’s basically the bust rate if QB2.  So, it might work, it might not.  
 

But I trust Peters in evaluation.

If we go Daniels and he busts while Maye flourishes, Peters evaluation skills can no longer be given the benefit of the doubt. I don’t believe the opposite is true either. 
 

 

[mac8887]

38 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

My guess if we draft Maye and if he starts right away is that he'll struggle some early, but by mid season he'll figure it out and the last 4-5 games of the season he'll play at top 10 QB level.

I hope you are right. That would mean he really improved throughout the season.  He was the 14th best passer in college football last season, but he does have the traits to be a top 10 guy if the coaches are able to get him to his potential.

[Skinsinparadise]

2024 NFL draft: Top prospects at 90 different skills, traits

• 
  Matt Bowen, ESPN Staff Writer

 

Most accurate passer: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Daniels completed 72.2% of his passes last season at LSU (seventh best in the nation) in a system that required him to attack all three levels of the route tree. He's a refined thrower who delivers the ball with anticipation and location, and he was off target on only 6.8% of his passes in 2023 (fourth best).

 

---

Strongest arm: Joe Milton III, QB, Tennessee

Milton has the physical tools and arm strength to generate high-end velocity on the ball and challenge secondaries down the field. We saw his huge arm on display at the combine, where he let a few fly more than 70 yards downfield. His deep-ball accuracy has to improve, but Milton did throw eight touchdown passes of 30 or more air yards this past season.

---

Quickest release: Caleb Williams, QB, USC

Williams has an electric release that allows him to deliver the ball with juice from various arm angles. It doesn't matter if it's three-step concepts, run-pass options or inside/outside the pocket. Similar to what we see from Aaron Rodgers, Williams makes it look effortless when releasing the ball.

---

Best pocket mobility: J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan

McCarthy has the movement skills to create space in tight quarters. When the walls start to close or opposing defenses send pressure, McCarthy will move around in the pocket and quickly reset his throwing window. His 52 QBR under pressure last season ranked eighth in the country.

---

Best field vision: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Daniels has a great ability to diagnose pressure and coverage, showing the skills to process through full-field reads. The Heisman Trophy winner threw 40 touchdown passes last season.

 

Best deep-ball thrower: Michael Penix Jr., QB, Washington

Penix has the arm strength to rip throws to the third level, and he can put touch on the ball when targeting receivers on the boundary. Last season, Penix led the nation with 24 completions on throws of 30 or more air yards.

---

Most instinctive passer: Caleb Williams, QB, USC

Williams has the second-reaction playmaking ability to escape pressure and create outside of structure. When throwing outside of the pocket last season, Williams recorded 835 yards, 11 touchdown throws and 15 completions of 20 or more yards -- all of which were tops in the nation.

---

Best decision-maker: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Oregon's Bo Nix fits here, too, but I'm going with Daniels because his offensive system at LSU asked more of him. Daniels threw just four interceptions last season, and on 97 passing attempts against the blitz, he had a fantastic 17-0 touchdown-to-interception ratio. He's very smart with the ball.

---

Best drive thrower: Drake Maye, QB, UNC

A high-velocity thrower, Maye has the arm talent to drive the ball to the middle of the field on seams and in-breakers. On throws of 15 or more air yards between the numbers, Maye had a QBR of 99.2 with 10 touchdown passes last season.

---

Best touch and timing: Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane

I like Pratt here because of his ability to layer throws over second-level defenders and put touch on the deep ball. He posted a career-best 65.6% completion percentage in 2023 and threw for 90 touchdowns over his four seasons at Tulane.

---

Best passing mechanics: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

With efficient footwork and a calm upper body, Daniels displays the repetitive mechanics necessary to operate as a highly productive passer at the pro level.

---

Best off-platform thrower: Caleb Williams, QB, USC

Williams shows the arm talent and body control to throw from multiple platforms. He's an accurate thrower on the move, with the ability to challenge defenses on home run throws. He threw 13 touchdown passes while either moving, shuffling or jumping last season.

---

 

Top designed rusher: Drake Maye, QB, UNC

In addition to his throwing traits, Maye has the physical profile at 6-foot-4 and 223 pounds to be schemed as a situational runner on designed carries in the NFL. He can make an impact off zone reads, power runs, counters or QB draws. During his career at North Carolina, Maye had 579 rushing yards and seven touchdowns on designed carries.

---

Best scrambler: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Daniels posted 703 rushing yards and 25 first downs on 55 scramble attempts last season. He's a dynamic mover, with the speed to attack the edges and beat defensive pursuit angles in the open field.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39897308/2024-nfl-draft-best-prospects-skills-traits-standouts-positions-superlatives

[WashingtonRedWolves]

1 hour ago, Dah-Dee said:

On the top 30 visit question, I don't *think* teams are required to announce the visits, so I suppose it's possible, especially with how tight a ship we've seen GMAP running, that if for some reason they wanted to keep a Maye visit quiet, they could. Don't really see any reason for that, and I think it's unlikely, but I guess it's one possibility.

 

I think it's more likely they've already decided on Maye, feel like they know all they need to know about him, are super comfortable with their decision, and are bringing in the other QB's for due diligence in the event something ridiculous happens with Maye before the draft - horrific car accident etc. knock on wood. In that context, the Daniels visit makes perfect sense, they want him in the building particularly so their doctors can poke and prod that toothpick body for specific issues. 

I really have to hand it to you all - you will find any way to spin something in Maye's favor and being a sure lock with this FO, whilst simultaneously getting in your jabs at Daniels. Draft night will surely be a sight to behold if it doesn't go the way many in this fanbase are projecting

[Llevron]

38 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

If we go Daniels and he busts while Maye flourishes, Peters evaluation skills can no longer be given the benefit of the doubt. I don’t believe the opposite is true either. 

 

Thats silly. Look at home many times SF got it wrong before they got it right. Look at how many times Andy Reid picked the wrong guy (I give him all the credit). 

 

Its not an exact science and believing it is shows how little you understand about it. 

Edited April 9 by Llevron

[Warhead36]

36 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

If we go Daniels and he busts while Maye flourishes, Peters evaluation skills can no longer be given the benefit of the doubt. I don’t believe the opposite is true either. 
 

 

Yep Maye is a consensus QB2 highly regarded prospect and has been for multiple years. If you pass on him and he succeeds, your guy has to be at least as good or youre IMMEDIATELY on the hot seat.

 

On the flip side if he takes Maye and he doesn't pan out, I wouldn't kill him. Sometimes everyone misses on a guy and it just is what it is.

 

I'll never crush a guy for taking a swing at a home run and missing, but if you don't swing at a meatball down the middle and settle for a single and the guy you pass on ends up being a grand slam, bye felicia.

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Thats silly. Look at home many times SF got it wrong before they got it right. Look at how many Times Andy Reid picked the wrong guy (I give him all the credit). 

 

Its not an exact science and believing it is shows how little you understand about it. 

I don't think Reid ever picked the wrong QB. In Philly he had McNabb and his backups all played at a high level(remember he flipped Kevin Colb for a 2nd rounder). Then he revived Vick's career. He was even the one that drafted Foles. He goes to KC and trades for Alex Smith to stabilize the team before eventually grabbing Mahomes. His track record when it comes to QBs is essentially 100%.

[skinny21]

Is it just me or does Daniels have a habit of kicking his front foot out when throwing?  Not saying all the time, or even a majority of the time, but I feel like I saw it a lot.  Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, but if I’m right, it seems to me that would have a semi-significant impact on velocity (IMO, it automatically opens his hips/shoulders and therefore reduces torque).

 

Again, if I’m right about that, on one hand, perhaps he needs (or at least could use) more work on his mechanics than we think.  On the other hand, if breaking that habit results in an improved ability to drive the ball more consistently, that would be a bonus.

 

(I feel like I must be crazy as I haven’t noticed anyone else mention this)

 

 

Edit:  Just rewatched his Alabama game and each time he kicked that foot out it was on short throws to his left…

Edited April 9 by skinny21

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think Reid ever picked the wrong QB. In Philly he had McNabb and his backups all played at a high level(remember he flipped Kevin Colb for a 2nd rounder). Then he revived Vick's career. He was even the one that drafted Foles. He goes to KC and trades for Alex Smith to stabilize the team before eventually grabbing Mahomes. His track record when it comes to QBs is essentially 100%.

 

Fair point. Reid is pretty close to perfect at it. I guess what I was thinking is he only really struck gold once and that was with Mahomes but all your points are valid. Calling any of the other guys a failure would be disingenuous. 

 

I think my point, outside of Reid is still a good one though. Looking back at it, Reid never had the options we have today when drafting. Its kinda crazy how much more talent we have to choose from versus back then. 

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

I don't think Reid ever picked the wrong QB. In Philly he had McNabb and his backups all played at a high level(remember he flipped Kevin Colb for a 2nd rounder). Then he revived Vick's career. He was even the one that drafted Foles. He goes to KC and trades for Alex Smith to stabilize the team before eventually grabbing Mahomes. His track record when it comes to QBs is essentially 100%.

 

I think Reid is a really good talent evaluator, but this also could be an indication that he's outstanding at designing his offensive system around the strengths of whatever QB he has.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think Maye is the consensus pick here on this thread, not sure that extends to everywhere else that neatly.

 

I am a Maye guy but I don't see my opinion fitting everywhere else where its consensus but it's definitiely in that 50-50 range.  I think if its McCarthy that would be going more with a flier if we are judigng by consensus

 

Maye is not the consensus slam dunk #2 with the draft media -- and judging by leaks about both coaches-personnel people, he isn't the consensus on that front either.  the Athletic had two different articles that combined that came off that the scouting community is divided.  I don't get the vibe that the consensus is Maye is slam dunk consensus #2 albiet he is for sure on this thread and lol am part of that thought -- so I am on board with the consensus here but reading-digesting all I can -- I find plenty of mixed opinion. 

 

But I admit I am VERY interested in McGinn's rankings so that can sway me on the point as to what the league thinks since there is so much mixed information on that front.  He polls personnel people-scouts and they are typically very accurate as to real FO sentiment.  Their rankings tend to be close to what happens on draft day.  So if they all go Maye > Daniels, that would get my attention.  So far with the three polled that's not the case. It's divided.  But i put more stock in those rankings before the draft, will see.

 

For me Peters needs to take a swing at #2.  Whatever he does especially if its Maye or Daniels, I'd be good with it sink or swim.  McCarthy would me me pause a little but I'd trust it but if that fails he'd be on notice with me.  Ditto trading down.

Edited April 9 by Skinsinparadise

[DogofWar1]

 

[SoCalSkins]

17 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Thats silly. Look at home many times SF got it wrong before they got it right. Look at how many times Andy Reid picked the wrong guy (I give him all the credit). 

 

Its not an exact science and believing it is shows how little you understand about it. 

If Mac Jones turned out to be an all-pro and they missed on Purdy, Peters is not our GM and Lynch is probably out in SF.

 

I put the Trey Lance pick on Kyle and Lynch not Peters.  They originally traded up for Mac Jones then flipped.  Jones and Lance are equally worthless so it’s a wash.

 

Maye has been considered a top prospect for 2 years. Passing on him is not the same situation particularly if he becomes an all-pro. Daniels is a tiny 1 year wonder with 5 years of ball, 4 of which sucked. In hind sight this is going to be a no brainer in my opinion with Daniels having injury riddled seasons and a short career while Maye turns into Andrew Luck or Josh Allen.

[Est.1974]

40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Maye is a consensus QB2

That’s not accurate at all, is it.

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me Peters needs to take a swing at #2.  Whatever he does especially if its Maye or Daniels, I'd be good with it sink or swim.  McCarthy would me me pause a little but I'd trust it but if that fails he'd be on notice with me.  Ditto trading down.

very reasonable take.

[skinsfan66]

Just now, Conn said:

Again, that’s not what people are responding to. Please keep track of your own posts 

My point is if we draft a QB at no.2 I expect him to start and be a (Blue Chip Franchise QB like Stroud not Stroud).  With this in mind if we trade down, I do not have that same the expectation as the season opens. You are getting other picks that balance it out for me. It's also not about OL or Stroud's No's or the bar should be low.......The Bar is high at 2 for me.  

[BayouBrave86]

47 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep Maye is a consensus QB2 highly regarded prospect and has been for multiple years. If you pass on him and he succeeds, your guy has to be at least as good or youre IMMEDIATELY on the hot seat.

 

On the flip side if he takes Maye and he doesn't pan out, I wouldn't kill him. Sometimes everyone misses on a guy and it just is what it is.

 

I'll never crush a guy for taking a swing at a home run and missing, but if you don't swing at a meatball down the middle and settle for a single and the guy you pass on ends up being a grand slam, bye felicia.

I don't think Reid ever picked the wrong QB. In Philly he had McNabb and his backups all played at a high level(remember he flipped Kevin Colb for a 2nd rounder). Then he revived Vick's career. He was even the one that drafted Foles. He goes to KC and trades for Alex Smith to stabilize the team before eventually grabbing Mahomes. His track record when it comes to QBs is essentially 100%.

Sure doesn’t seem like Maye is the consensus QB2. Most experts and analysts have JD as number 2 lately. 

24 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

If Mac Jones turned out to be an all-pro and they missed on Purdy, Peters is not our GM and Lynch is probably out in SF.

 

I put the Trey Lance pick on Kyle and Lynch not Peters.  They originally traded up for Mac Jones then flipped.  Jones and Lance are equally worthless so it’s a wash.

 

Maye has been considered a top prospect for 2 years. Passing on him is not the same situation particularly if he becomes an all-pro. Daniels is a tiny 1 year wonder with 5 years of ball, 4 of which sucked. In hind sight this is going to be a no brainer in my opinion with Daniels having injury riddled seasons and a short career while Maye turns into Andrew Luck or Josh Allen.

Jayden did not suck for 4 years  And you want Maye to be another Andrew Luck? A guy that quits early in his career due to injuries?

[mistertim]

Just now, BayouBrave86 said:

Sure doesn’t seem like Maye is the consensus QB2. Most experts and analysts have JD as number 2 lately. 

 

We have no clue what actual NFL team scouts think. You're talking about social media and sports media people, who are mostly entertainers and in need of clicks and views.

[BayouBrave86]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

We have no clue what actual NFL team scouts think. You're talking about social media and sports media people, who are mostly entertainers and in need of clicks and views.

Former players are a pretty big deal and why they get these sports media roles. Kurt Warner, Orlovsky, Merrill Hoge..all rank Jayden above Maye and that’s just off the top of my head. 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

So if our rookie QB doesn't have a historically good rookie season then we missed with the pick?

No, that I just expect him to start being picked at no.2. and a Franchise QB to boot like Stroud. With what we have at QB on the bench now, there should be no other expectation. You have been hyping your Blue Chip Maye prospect since day one 100% like there is no other, you do not believe he should start? If he sits he sits not my point and what I expect.