The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MartinC]

28 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Why though, we know for 100% certainty that is what they wanted from him at ASU playing under Herm Edward’s, a NFL guy. Yes he might of taken more sacks because of it, but his completion percentage was really high, he made huge plays, and he didn’t turn the ball over.

If he was being asked to make one read or run rather than go through a progression within the pocket his sack rate should be lower than if he was primarily operating from the pocket and/or even breaking the pocket but looking to extend plays to use his arm.

[illone]

15 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

This is kind of like saying “why bother learning to dribble with your left hand?” Keeping your eyes down field when you are scrambling is a pretty basic fundamental.

 

not sure how much college football you watch, so forgive me if this isnt breaking news, but…

 

college coaches could care less about your success at the next level. They care about one thing: winning the next game. So yea, they arent going to teach you how to dribble with your left hand unless it helps them on Saturday. 

[skinny21]

I can honestly say that the only things I know about Daniels are from this thread.  I do feel like if I were ridiculously fast, I’d feel a lot safer moving forward - knowing I’m not likely to be caught from behind - versus pulling up on a scramble to throw.  Ideally though, you’re comfortable enough throwing on the move (not having to stop/plant).  If that’s either not a tool or not a well developed tool in his toolbox, that’s a bit concerning to me.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

11 minutes ago, illone said:

not sure how much college football you watch, so forgive me if this isnt breaking news, but…

 

college coaches could care less about your success at the next level. They care about one thing: winning the next game. So yea, they arent going to teach you how to dribble with your left hand unless it helps them on Saturday. 

Yeah, well being able to dribble with both hands always helps you and it’s the right way to do it so…

 

But at any rate, I won’t argue your point. It is his coaches’ fault that he’s not prepared to play at the next level.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Your posts confuse me because it’s Maye whose off-platform improvisation in (and out of) the pocket reminds some of Mahomes and Rodgers. Not Daniels. That isn’t his game, he doesn’t as a rule extend the play behind the LOS and make magic happen downfield, that’s Maye. Daniels runs. Not as a last resort after waiting to see if he can shake anyone open by evading the pass rush behind the LOS—but as a primary plan B after his initial reads, regardless of who is breaking open or not. You’re advocating for Maye’s skillset here and don’t seem to realize it. 
 

 

I've held a similar viewpoint for about 10 years, but I don't expect you to remember all the nuances I've shared, so I'll try to recap lol. 

 

I generally lean towards supreme athletes at the quarterback spot because I believe they tend to yield positive outcomes early in their rookie contracts more consistently than other quarterbacks. It doesn't necessarily require them to be elite processors or outsmart the established stars in the league. I'm aiming for a high floor and immediate ceiling, fully aware that someone like Daniel might not be playing in years 12-17 as much as Maye, and I'm fine with that.

 

That said, I'm not discounting Maye; I'm intrigued by his moxie and ability to play off schedule. I prefer a supreme athlete with clean throwing mechanics as a starting point , knowing that the run game will likely be top 5 and the offensive line will benefit greatly from his talent from day one as a starter. I'm a sucker for that while on a rookie deal. With Maye, there are more unknown variables; we'll have to hope he's super smart, maniacal about his process, an elite processor, and can become more accurate. 

 

I'm not sure where the narrative of Daniel not making throws off schedule has come from, as his highlights are filled with these throws. I do agree that he lacks the ability to throw from different platforms.

 

I'm not suggesting that it's right or wrong at this stage, but I continue to lean towards this preference in most years. I'll admit that I prefer Caleb Williams over Jaden Daniels, even though he's not as much of a rushing quarterback, but he’s extremely accurate. 

[xxprodigyxx]

42 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

This is kind of like saying “why bother learning to dribble with your left hand?” Keeping your eyes down field when you are scrambling is a pretty basic fundamental.

well, apparently, Michael Jordan was able to make it into the goat conversation with "no left". sooooo....

Edited March 23 by xxprodigyxx

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I've held a similar viewpoint for about 10 years, but I don't expect you to remember all the nuances I've shared, so I'll try to recap lol. 

 

I generally lean towards supreme athletes at the quarterback spot because I believe they tend to yield positive outcomes early in their rookie contracts more consistently than other quarterbacks. It doesn't necessarily require them to be elite processors or outsmart the established stars in the league. I'm aiming for a high floor and immediate ceiling, fully aware that someone like Daniel might not be playing in years 12-17 as much as Maye, and I'm fine with that.

 

That said, I'm not discounting Maye; I'm intrigued by his moxie and ability to play off schedule. I prefer a supreme athlete with clean throwing mechanics as a starting point , knowing that the run game will likely be top 5 and the offensive line will benefit greatly from his talent from day one as a starter. I'm a sucker for that while on a rookie deal. With Maye, there are more unknown variables; we'll have to hope he's super smart, maniacal about his process, an elite processor, and can become more accurate. 

 

I'm not sure where the narrative of Daniel not making throws off schedule has come from, as his highlights are filled with these throws. I do agree that he lacks the ability to throw from different platforms.

 

I'm not suggesting that it's right or wrong at this stage, but I continue to lean towards this preference in most years. I'll admit that I prefer Caleb Williams over Jaden Daniels, even though he's not as much of a rushing quarterback, but he’s extremely accurate. 

You are talking like Maye is a pocket passer who is a statue. He’s very mobile and a good runner. He had almost 700 yards rushing in 2022 and 425 yards in 2023. Ton of rushing TDs as well. He’s not as fast as Daniel’s but he’s very mobile.

 

As for calling Williams not much of a rushing QB - have you actually watched him play? He tends to break the pocket and look to throw, but when he does run he’s a very very good runner.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I'm not sure where the narrative of Daniel not making throws off schedule has come from, as his highlights are filled with these throws. I do agree that he lacks the ability to throw from different platforms.

 

Here's a pretty long article by Nate Tice about Daniels and he goes into more specifics on his concerns in that area (though he also has positive things to say about him)

 

Jayden Daniels' NFL Draft stock has risen more than anyone, but will he live up to it?

 

Quote

It is typically throwing over the middle where you see this hesitation crop up with Daniels. He is not entirely comfortable working between the numbers, which can cause him to hit his receiver a few yards later than he should ideally and is something that can be punished even more often against NFL defenders. Daniels threw over the intermediate part of the field (10-22 yards) and between the numbers on only 9.3% of his dropbacks, which ranked 163rd out of 196 qualifying college quarterbacks since 2019. The only quarterback to be drafted in the first two rounds to have a lower rate since 2020 was Justin Fields at 8.1%, and that's still an aspect of the game that Fields struggles with despite having more arm strength than Daniels.

 

Quote

Even the slightest amount of pressure will cause Daniels’ eyes to come down in the pocket and start looking for running lanes: only 50.6% of his pressured dropbacks resulted in a pass attempt, ranking 193rd out of 196 qualifying quarterbacks since 2019. If Daniels gets moved off of his launch point, he is looking to run; 25% of his pressured dropbacks resulted in a scramble! When Daniels escapes outside of the pocket? He looks to run. Daniels had 83 dropbacks where he ended up outside the pocket in 2023 and 36 of those dropbacks resulted in a scramble. That means 43.4% of the time Daniels left the pocket, he was scrambling. Not that those ended up as bad results; his success rate on those plays was nearly 70%, but always looking to run is near-impossible to do as a long-term NFL starter. Even Lamar Jackson, a player Daniels has been compared to, was a big-game hunter when coming out of Louisville with a love for firing throws over the middle, while also being heavier and a more creative runner.

 

[NoCalMike]

I feel like Daniels or Maye would be justifiable picks and each guy will come with their strengths & weaknesses. Both will need to be developed in different areas and it is still going to be very dependent on getting that roster built around them in order to expect early success.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Erased

Edited March 23 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[illone]

2 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah, well being able to dribble with both hands always helps you and it’s the right way to do it so…

 

But at any rate, I won’t argue your point. It is his coaches’ fault that he’s not prepared to play at the next level.

 

have you listened to the Keim interview with Herm Edwards?

 

Its pretty telling… basically he said that jayden was brought in to be an athlete. Kind of sad if you think about it. Another good reason why the NIL had to happen, but thats a different conversation for another day lol. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, xxprodigyxx said:

sooooo....

Yeah. Sorry about that 😞 

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah, well being able to dribble with both hands always helps you and it’s the right way to do it so…

 

But at any rate, I won’t argue your point. It is his coaches’ fault that he’s not prepared to play at the next level.

 

Are these coaches getting any kickbacks from NFL to make the players ready for the NFL?

[illone]

15 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Are these coaches getting any kickbacks from NFL to make the players ready for the NFL?

 

😂

 

Thats a no, dawg. 

[SkinsFTW]

3 hours ago, mac8887 said:

The dude might just have really strong bones and ligaments.

 

Built like a twig but those bones are just so strong.

 

It's like he's got stainless steel chop sticks.

[zCommander]

44 minutes ago, illone said:

 

😂

 

Thats a no, dawg. 

 

I know. I was being sarcastic/facetious lol

 

Edited March 23 by zCommander

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Man, the things that you pull out of your rectal cavity would put the guys from Jackass to shame.

We can’t all be experts like your good self.

 

That said….

 

I did take the time to rewatch the top half a dozen QB prospects. It’s actually quite easy to be influenced by the quality of the other players, WRs in particular. 
 

So I just focused on the QBs pocket play. Awareness. Feet. Composure etc.

 

McCarthy is top quality in that respect. Great feet. Subtle movement. Awareness and vision. Tough as ****ing nails. Stands there when the hit is coming, delivers the strike, full throwing motion, takes the hit. I think he’s very pro-ready in that respect, ie pocket play.

 

Maye, where my original comment came from, is quite a way behind in that respect. I think his feet are awful. Clunky, kind of gets caught up in himself. Bails out quicker etc. Maye being a day 1 started, IMO, would take a whole load of offseason work and a HC that potentially has to throw him out there very ‘raw’ in that respect.

 

Anyway….what the Hell do I know, it’s all a mystery drafting a QB….

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

We can’t all be experts like your good self.

 

That said….

 

I did take the time to rewatch the top half a dozen QB prospects. It’s actually quite easy to be influenced by the quality of the other players, WRs in particular. 
 

So I just focused on the QBs pocket play. Awareness. Feet. Composure etc.

 

McCarthy is top quality in that respect. Great feet. Subtle movement. Awareness and vision. Tough as ****ing nails. Stands there when the hit is coming, delivers the strike, full throwing motion, takes the hit. I think he’s very pro-ready in that respect, ie pocket play.

 

Maye, where my original comment came from, is quite a way behind in that respect. I think his feet are awful. Clunky, kind of gets caught up in himself. Bails out quicker etc. Maye being a day 1 started, IMO, would take a whole load of offseason work and a HC that potentially has to throw him out there very ‘raw’ in that respect.

 

Anyway….what the Hell do I know, it’s all a mystery drafting a QB….

 

I take it you disagree with @Voice_of_Reason's play by play breakdown of McCarthy?

[skinsarethebest]

10 hours ago, mac8887 said:

I’m really excited about this team. LT is still concerning me, but it believe there are 4 QBs that will be legitimate starters in this league, maybe 5 if Penix knee holds up. After watching Sam make bad decisions last year, I’m really hoping we land a guy that’s a great decision maker.

He was indeed the king of bad decisions.   Yeah, I know, his OL sucked., etc. etc., but still his decision making was p__ poor, and that was a knock on him in college.   It's also why I am hoping we don't go for Maye, who has been prone to some pretty bad decision making when pressured, from the tape I've seen...

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I take it you disagree with @Voice_of_Reason's play by play breakdown of McCarthy?

Not really disagree. I think half the world has different views on all of these QBs.
 

That was just my very amateur GM take, direct from the rectal cavity, of course…..

 

Have you posted yours, or do you just refer to media articles and other posters views ?

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Not really disagree. I think half the world has different views on all of these QBs.
 

That was just my very amateur GM take, direct from the rectal cavity, of course…..

 

Have you posted yours, or do you just refer to media articles and other posters views ?

 

Have I posted my rectal cavity? i really don't think this is an appropriate thing for this forum.

[Est.1974]

Williams is the clear elite prospect going #1

 

After that between Daniels - McCarthy - Maye, I personally think all three represent a slight reach at the #2 spot. Assuming the option of picking #1 is off the table, I would be more than happy to be picking #4 with a pickmor so in the bank. You get one of the remaining QBs  plus more draft capital.

 

Ideal plan B scenarios for me would result in a three way trade that resulted in :

 

Vikings picking #2

We pick #4

Arizona back at #11

 

We get the Vikings 2025 first as well, Arizona get the Vikings pick at #23 this year plus change.

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Williams is the clear elite prospect going #1

 

After that between Daniels - McCarthy - Maye, I personally think all three represent a slight reach at the #2 spot. Assuming the option of picking #1 is off the table, I would be more than happy to be picking #4 with a pickmor so in the bank. You get one of the remaining QBs  plus more draft capital.

 

Ideal plan B scenarios for me would result in a three way trade that resulted in :

 

Vikings picking #2

We pick #4

Arizona back at #11

 

We get the Vikings 2025 first as well, Arizona get the Vikings pick at #23 this year plus change.

 

Well, obviously this can be taken with a grain of alt, but many people have stated that in any draft without Caleb Williams, Maye and Daniels would likely be slam dunk #1 overall picks. They just happened to end up in a class with a guy who was basically slated 2 entire years go as a generational #1 overall dude.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I take it you disagree with @Voice_of_Reason

Absolutely 

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Absolutely 

 

I meant about his throw by throw breakdown of McCarthy, not his.......verbose posting style.