The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[clskinsfan]

5 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

 

So remove his scrambles and Daniels gets sacked 30% of the time he faces pressure. That is abysmal. And imo it goes back to his size. He has no ability to break from anyone. If he gets touched in the pocket he is going down. Add in his lack of throwing on the run and you have a recipe for disaster in NFL imo.

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah you have to really dig into the context. Not all sacks are created equally or come from the same circumstances. A guy that runs into pressure is not the same as a guy forced to hold the ball on 3rd and long trying to make a big time throw.

 

Its a situation where, while the stat is useful, you gotta couple it with tape and real in game analysis to come to a conclusion.

You also need to couple it with the players around them on their own team. LSU was stacked. And Daniels still got sacked 30% of the time he faced pressure. 

[method man]

Although I have a preference for Maye, I see them taking Daniels. Job preservation is something FOs and coaches think about and I believe, of the two, Daniels is the safer pick from a play standpoint (I do believe Maye has the higher ceiling).

 

If JD busts because of injury but was performing while on the field, the FO would get more leeway and the ability to take a second QB.

[rockluc]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

Although I have a preference for Maye, I see them taking Daniels. Job preservation is something FOs and coaches think about and I believe, of the two, Daniels is the safer pick from a play standpoint (I do believe Maye has the higher ceiling).

 

If JD busts because of injury but was performing while on the field, the FO would get more leeway and the ability to take a second QB.

If you take a (IMO) sub 200 lb running quarterback and are surprised when he doesn’t hold up to a 17 game schedule that alone would prohibit me from ever giving you another bite at that apple but maybe Josh would be more forgiving than I would be….availability is a pretty significant part of the equation for any player, especially a high first rounder. 

[mistertim]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

So remove his scrambles and Daniels gets sacked 30% of the time he faces pressure. That is abysmal. And imo it goes back to his size. He has no ability to break from anyone. If he gets touched in the pocket he is going down. Add in his lack of throwing on the run and you have a recipe for disaster in NFL imo.

 

His really really poor rate of throwing outside of the pocket when pressured is a bad sign. In that stat he was ranked 193 out of 196 prospects since 2018. So usually when he faces pressure his eyes come down and he runs instead of buying time, keeping his eyes downfield, and finding an open receiver (VoR mentioned this in his play by play breakdown of a Daniels game...and also noted that when pressured he also just flat out misses wide open guys).

 

Now, to be fair, a lot of the time those "lower his eyes and run" wind up in good chunk yards. But that sort of thing is not a recipe for success as a long term NFL starter, especially at his frail size. Statistically it will end up with him getting injured. Usually NFL coaches want guys who can scramble, escape pressure, keep their eyes downfield and get the ball to an open guy. And if there's nobody open, then run.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Similarly, are quarterbacks becoming ball hogs in football, and does it yield positive results? I wonder if elite QBs clashed with coordinators, particularly 5-10 years ago, regarding progressions and opting to check down for a safer play rather than riskier downfield passes

Plays arent really designed that way. They are generally designed to get someone open based on the defensive formation the play faces. The QB is responsible for reading the play and finding the open man. Kind of tough to just say "F it i'm going short" if that guy isnt open. 

[ThatNFLChick]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

So remove his scrambles and Daniels gets sacked 30% of the time he faces pressure. That is abysmal. And imo it goes back to his size. He has no ability to break from anyone. If he gets touched in the pocket he is going down. Add in his lack of throwing on the run and you have a recipe for disaster in NFL imo.

You also need to couple it with the players around them on their own team. LSU was stacked. And Daniels still got sacked 30% of the time he faced pressure. 

 

How often did he face pressure? 

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Thank you for completely and utterly dodging my entire point.

Whatever, you don't have a point. You have a preference.

[mistertim]

Just now, NOLA2DC said:

Whatever, you don't have a point. You have a preference.

 

Please respond to my post above about his bottom of the barrel numbers for throwing after being pressured. Thank you in advance for not replying with vague generic platitudes, we all appreciate it.

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

How often did he face pressure? 

Not very much apparently. 

[WashingtonRedWolves]

 

11:43 dispels some of the myths, but also shows the toughness and poise under pressure that I think will make him succeed in the NFL. There's a DL in his face, he hangs in, perfect technique, and delivers a strike, completes it deep over the middle to the right guy, then takes a massive pancake hit. That's a throw very few NFL QBs can make under that pressure. Love this throw.

 

17:02 is another mythbuster. He gets pressure so he rolls out. But rather than tuck and run, he keeps his eyes down field, resets quickly, and hits the open guy for a nice gain. He'll run when nothing is open, but he's always looking down field, making good decisions.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

 

11:43 dispels some of the myths, but also shows the toughness and poise under pressure that I think will make him succeed in the NFL. There's a DL in his face, he hangs in, perfect technique, and delivers a strike, completes it deep over the middle to the right guy, then takes a massive pancake hit. That's a throw very few NFL QBs can make under that pressure. Love this throw.

 

17:02 is another mythbuster. He gets pressure so he rolls out. But rather than tuck and run, he keeps his eyes down field, resets quickly, and hits the open guy for a nice gain. He'll run when nothing is open, but he's always looking down field, making good decisions.

 

You're talking about two single plays. Nobody has said he never does these things. But, again, look at the statistics I posted about how poor his ranking is in throws outside of the pocket after he's pressured.

[illone]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

His really really poor rate of throwing outside of the pocket when pressured is a bad sign. In that stat he was ranked 193 out of 196 prospects since 2018. 

 

 

He isn't an NFL ready thrower. Not saying he can't become one, but most NFL schemes want to attack the middle of the field (or at least pretend they can) and he is WAY behind the others in that metric, and I dont need a stat line to tell me it's true. Unless my eyes are lying to me.

 

What probably makes up for it is the chunk plays he made down the field but those wont be as available to him at the next level.

 

Why did Breer do this to us? 🤣

 

Damn you Breer. Just, damn you.

Edited March 22 by illone

[Conn]

7 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

 

11:43 dispels some of the myths, but also shows the toughness and poise under pressure that I think will make him succeed in the NFL. There's a DL in his face, he hangs in, perfect technique, and delivers a strike, completes it deep over the middle to the right guy, then takes a massive pancake hit. That's a throw very few NFL QBs can make under that pressure. Love this throw.

 

17:02 is another mythbuster. He gets pressure so he rolls out. But rather than tuck and run, he keeps his eyes down field, resets quickly, and hits the open guy for a nice gain. He'll run when nothing is open, but he's always looking down field, making good decisions.

 

 

Seeing something happen once (or multiple times—even many times!) is not “mythbusting”, but thanks for posting the video. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I can show 30 some on throws to “disprove” the idea that Maye has done issues with accuracy in the flat.

 

But the bottom line is his accuracy is inconsistent in the flat.

 

Just like with Daniels the stats indicate that he tucks and runs much more than the typical even running QB in the NFL when flushed out of the pocket. It doesn’t mean he does it every time 

 

Part of the reason why I lost respect for Riddick years ago was when selling Haskins (RIP) as the be all and end all prospect he defended his weaknesses on Path to the Draft by showing an isolated throw or two. It was ridiculous 

Edited March 22 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, illone said:

Why did Breer do this to us? 🤣

 

Damn you Breer. Just, damn you.

 

Because he gets paid a lot of money to do it.   

[illone]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Because he gets paid a lot of money to do it.   

 

 

From who, Jayden Daniels' agent?

 

[DogofWar1]

33 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

Yeah, I get that but I don't think he is stating a random opinion. He is echoing what he is hearing from other people around the league. Now how much value that has, who knows. It might just be what these league people assume personally or they might hear something. But if I remember correctly, Breer originally said that he would think we lean Maye after the Combine and that has apparently switched now.

Like I said, I don't think any decision has been made and maybe right now it's a pure guessing game. But JD to us (whether justified or not) has gained some steam recently, there is no denying that. Hope you are right though. The closer we get to the draft, the more I lean Maye.

 

I mean, lots of league people trying to make fetch happen, aka trying to mentally will WAS into passing on Drake and they are gonna say stuff.

 

We MIGHT pass on Drake but anything about our choices isn't coming from inside the house, but there's a lot of people who have their own motives and reasons for pushing narratives.

 

Remember the Malik Willis hype and how people thought the Steelers might have to move up to get him?  Biggest hype job from his agent and a number of people in the NFL media landscape bought it.

 

Then you get the tier down from the Bremmers and Schefters and Rappaports who are basically just pundits and they say things like "I think it'll be Jayden Daniels because of Kliff Klingsbury."

 

Like...what?

 

Murray had one year above 600 rushing yards and then he coached Caleb who is much more similar to Maye than he is to Daniels.  How does one even figure that.  It's all just a "they want a mobile QB quickly scribble in Daniels' name" rehash.

 

No one knows anything.

[ILikeBilly2]

15 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

 

11:43 dispels some of the myths, but also shows the toughness and poise under pressure that I think will make him succeed in the NFL. There's a DL in his face, he hangs in, perfect technique, and delivers a strike, completes it deep over the middle to the right guy, then takes a massive pancake hit. That's a throw very few NFL QBs can make under that pressure. Love this throw.

 

 

Sam Howell made that same throw dozens of times this year.  We just traded him away.

[wit33]

19 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Plays arent really designed that way. They are generally designed to get someone open based on the defensive formation the play faces. The QB is responsible for reading the play and finding the open man. Kind of tough to just say "F it i'm going short" if that guy isnt open. 

I was discussing the accepted notion for quarterbacks to resort to the check down in a 3rd and long situation, conceding that the play call couldn't generate an open throw. Over the past 15 years, quarterbacks have increasingly taken control from their offensive coordinators by incorporating backyard football tactics. I've often attributed Aaron Rodgers with leading this charge in an extreme manner, similar to Steph Curry and his playing style in the NBA.
 

It was considered a smart play to check it down short in a 3rd and long situation consistently in games much more than it is now. The F it I’m going short is often there in a 3rd and long, the defense will concede the check down often and rally to the ball short of the sticks. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Am firmly in the Maye camp as to who I want but I do like Daniels too.

 

If they take Daniels I presume they have a plan to build the offense around his wheels and if so I’d be jazzed.

 

No lose for me either way 

Edited March 22 by Skinsinparadise

[spjunkies]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Am firmly in the Maye camp as to who I want but I do like Daniels too.

 

If they take Daniels I presume they have a plan to build offense around his wheels and if so I’d be jazzed.

 

No lose for me either way 

 

Right there with you, but my preference is the reverse. 

 

No matter who's selected we should end up with an elite talent. 

[DogofWar1]

3 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

From who, Jayden Daniels' agent?

 

I mean, maybe.

 

Agents out there doing their jobs hyping up their clients.  The jokes about Schefter getting fat checks from Drew Rosenhaus are just that, jokes, but they are funny bc we could all see it.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

Right there with you, but my preference is the reverse. 

 

No matter who's selected we should end up with an elite talent. 

Agree.

 

We are in a good spot. Got a new owner. New GM. New HC. Number 2 pick. 

 

I got zero angst about the Maye-Daniels stuff.

 

It should be a fun ride. Thank the lucky stars we are drafting high in a touted draft for QBs. It would have sucked if this was 2022 and we’d be debating Willis versus Pickett or whatever. 
 

Lady Luck seems to be finally smiling on us 

Edited March 22 by Skinsinparadise

[illone]

1 hour ago, Panninho said:

Yeah, I get that but I don't think he is stating a random opinion. He is echoing what he is hearing from other people around the league.

 

 

Oh its definitely not random. That doesnt mean it's good faith reporting or fact based journalism.

 

One of these days it's going to be revealed that all these so called NFL journalists are on the take and earn more from false reports than true ones.  Especially during draft season.

 

One of the only guys I trust anymore is Jay Glazer and he doesnt do ANY draft stuff at all.. I wonder why 👀

8 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I mean, maybe.

 

Agents out there doing their jobs hyping up their clients.  The jokes about Schefter getting fat checks from Drew Rosenhaus are just that, jokes, but they are funny bc we could all see it.

 

 

Sheftie got phat checks from Bruce Allen 🤣

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I was discussing the accepted notion for quarterbacks to resort to the check down in a 3rd and long situation, conceding that the play call couldn't generate an open throw. Over the past 15 years, quarterbacks have increasingly taken control from their offensive coordinators by incorporating backyard football tactics. I've often attributed Aaron Rodgers with leading this charge in an extreme manner, similar to Steph Curry and his playing style in the NBA.
 

It was considered a smart play to check it down short in a 3rd and long situation consistently in games much more than it is now. The F it I’m going short is often there in a 3rd and long, the defense will concede the check down often and rally to the ball short of the sticks. 

 

 

You seem to live in a complete fantasy world. The idea that QBs nowadays just take control from their OCs and systems and just sort of run around making **** up is the height of stupidity, yet you seem insistent on repeating it as if it's fact. The vast majority of the time these QBs are absolutely 100% playing within the system and their standard reads. That includes guys like Rodgers and even Mahomes.

 

Sure, they break the pocket when pressured and plays break down and then can improvise really well, but the idea that they just wing it constantly it nonsensical considering how incredibly complex NFL defenses are and how incredibly intricate and well designed NFL offensive systems are.

 

Maybe you've just been watching way too much high school or little league football.

Edited March 22 by mistertim