The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Going Commando]

 

The video NBC Sports Boston made for JJ.

 

He's pretty good.  Good decision maker and he has special speed and agility.  He's similar to Daniels in a lot of ways.  Better vision than Daniels, better decision making as a runner.  A little thicker of a build.  The arm talent is just not impressive, and he has no play strength either.  No anticipation in his throws.  Almost no creativity.  He's the third option in his offense, and he's not getting unpredictable pressure, which makes clean decision making far easier.

 

I don't really see what the big deal is with him.  To me he's QB5, and even that feels like a fairly generous bet on his upside.  He's clean and he won a lot of games, but what is special about him beyond his running ability?  Mac Jones won a lot of games too, it's not that hard to do when you're an NFL track QB who is like the fifth best player in your offense.

[redskinss]

15 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m just about at the point of JJ over both, just not at #2 

 

There's still a month left I'm sure by the middle of April we'll be trading up to one for Ratller.

[redskinss]

15 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m just about at the point of JJ over both, just not at #2 

 

There's still a month left I'm sure by the middle of April we'll be trading up to one for Ratller.

[Chris 44]

9 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

There's still a month left I'm sure by the middle of April we'll be trading up to one for Ratller.

You can say that again.

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Im at the point that if we don't take Maye I would rather take McCarthy over Daniels.

 

Not me.  I don't really like either of them anywhere near as much as Maye, but I like Daniels better than McCarthy.

 

I like Michael Penix though.  No way I would choose him instead of Maye, but if we were picking third, I would trade back and pick him instead of Daniels or McCarthy top five.  I think he's better than both of them.  He's a lot stronger than them and he's creative and anticipates really well.  I think his pocket mobility and elusiveness are the best in the class, and he sees the field almost as well as Maye and Williams.  Aside from his injury history, the only thing I don't like about his game is the ugly, super low release.

[CommanderInTheRye]

11 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I think if I got drafted to Chicago, I would probably be out of the league after a season. That deep dish pizza…

 

I'm more of a NY pizza guy, but deep dish is good too.

 

Personally, I'd have to hit Carson's first for a big old slab of barbecued spareribs.

 

Ribs are my favorite food group.

 

Then it's off to sample a few  chop houses for a thick Flintstone sized grilled ribeye, or a big 32 ounce hunk of melt in your mouth prime rib, with sauteed marsala mushrooms, fully loaded baked potato, and some savory au jus on the side.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by CommanderInTheRye

[Conn]

38 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think as time passes he might actually become the cleaner option of the three. 
 

There isn’t any real clarity on either Daniels or Maye. Opinion appears completely divided.

 

I’m not sure it is with JJ, not to the same extent. If he convinces people he’s an absolute dog of a baller, his solid rounded skill set will become very appealing for a team to build upon.
 

Its’s where that become a viable/value pick. For those that want ‘safe’, shouldn’t he be viewed a safer pick at #2 rather than both Daniels and Maye ? 

No, this is a common fan mistake because we get sick of all the nitpicking and back-and-forth for years on top prospects, and we internalize negativity easier than positivity. 
 

What you’re arguing is essentially this: “isn’t it better to have less information on a guy than more information, if the extra information divides people?” You’re giving McCarthy extra credit for being asked to do less, for putting less on tape, because it makes it harder to assess his flaws. 
 

Make no mistake, knowing much more about the strengths and weaknesses of the top 3 prospects is a good thing. Knowing less about a prospect (like JJ) is always a bad thing even if technically knowing less taints the conversation with less negativity from certain corners. That creates an illusion of “safety” that isn’t there. At all. 

Edited March 21 by Conn

[Warhead36]

22 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The video NBC Sports Boston made for JJ.

 

He's pretty good.  Good decision maker and he has special speed and agility.  He's similar to Daniels in a lot of ways.  Better vision than Daniels, better decision making as a runner.  A little thicker of a build.  The arm talent is just not impressive, and he has no play strength either.  No anticipation in his throws.  Almost no creativity.  He's the third option in his offense, and he's not getting unpredictable pressure, which makes clean decision making far easier.

 

I don't really see what the big deal is with him.  To me he's QB5, and even that feels like a fairly generous bet on his upside.  He's clean and he won a lot of games, but what is special about him beyond his running ability?  Mac Jones won a lot of games too, it's not that hard to do when you're an NFL track QB who is like the fifth best player in your offense.

That's my thing with McCarthy too. He doesn't represent a home run swing. He's not awful, but after a 4 win season and the #2 overall pick, if JJ freaking McCarthy is our prize than that's a colossal disappointment.

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

I'm 50.1% on drafting Maye

I'm 49.9% on drafting Daniels

I'm 100% excited for either

I’m 100% on drafting a qb who will be our starter for at least 10 years with the possibility of playing up to 15+ years.

 

We haven’t had that since Sammy Baugh.

 

So, keeping fingers crossed that AP, DQ & KK can do that.

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, Conn said:

No, this is a common fan mistake because we get sick of all the nitpicking and back-and-forth for years on top prospects, and we internalize negativity easier than positivity. 
 

What you’re arguing is essentially this: “isn’t it better to have less information on a guy than more information, if the extra information divides people?” You’re giving McCarthy extra credit for being asked to do less, for putting less on tape, because it makes it harder to assess his flaws. 
 

Make no mistake, knowing much more about the strengths and weaknesses of the top 3 prospects is a good thing. Knowing less about a prospect (like JJ) is always a bad thing even if technically knowing less taints the conversation with less negativity from certain corners. That creates an illusion of “safety” that isn’t there. At all. 

 

I don't know.

 

I think it's entirely possible he is the cleanest of the four guys. I don't think it's necessarily revisionist.

 

What I think IS true, and to your point, is that what the other guys do well... they are elite at. McCarthy doesn't have anything that is ELITE that we can see to the eye. 

 

He's not a home run swing. He's a leg out triple swing. And when you're picking second you can't try to leg out a triple.

 

You have to swing.

 

And the swings are the top three guys. 

 

I'd almost rather be sitting at 4 naturally. But we are not. And because of that you CANNOT pass on the home run cut. 

 

I am intrigued to see how JJ does in the NFL, but it won't be here.

[Spearfeather]

16 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

We haven’t had that since Sammy Baugh.

 

That is a sad, but true statement,  right there.

 

The closest thing we've had is Theismann.

 

Almost 40 years ago.

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Spearfeather

[Chris 44]

7 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

That is a sad, but true statement,  right there.

 

The closest thing we've had is Theismann.

 

Almost 40 years ago.

 

 

 

No way Theismann was 40 years ago!   Holy crap.

 

1974-1985  74 years old

[CommanderInTheRye]

11 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Most of the clips in this vid are from the "behind the QB" perspective. I have not seen this angle on a lot of these plays.

 

Hits a lil' different.

 

 

 

 

I had come in here today thinking that overnight I had flipped from leaning slightly towards Daniels to leaning slightly towards Maye; largely because Maye just seems like the safer long term option.

 

Then I watched this video and in my gut I just knew what I would do, if I were the one making the call (and yes, luckily for all of us, I'm not- lol).

 

I'm rolling the dice on the guy that puts fear in the heart of a defense.

 

The guy that forces a defensive coordinator to come up with a special game plan to deal with this two way assassin in cleats.

 

The guy that makes every down 11 on 11, because the qb MUST be accounted for or he will gash you and take over the game.

 

The guy who has improved some aspect of his game every single year.

 

The guy that is absolutely, as DQ himself admitted-- a "game changer".

 

Yes, he occasionally takes crazy, ridiculous, foolish, and unnecessary risks. 

 

Risks that he will not survive in the NFL.

 

But life itself is a risky endeavor, and no choice we make is without risk.

 

I believe that our coaches can impress upon Jayden the importance of self protection,  and teach him to slide, or run out of bounds, like a young Russel Wilson.

 

If that can't be done-- I made the wrong decision.

 

Bottom line, as of this morning, he's the guy I'm going with.

 

For me the upside is worth the risk.

 

I know the majority of the forum disagrees with this, but that's where I'm planting my flag (for the moment at least-lol).

 

As always, I support whoever Peters, Quinn, and Harris choose.

 

I don't envy them in this task.

 

The hopes and dreams of an entire fan base is in the balance.

 

 

Edited March 21 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

I think as time passes he might actually become the cleaner option of the three. 
 

There isn’t any real clarity on either Daniels or Maye. Opinion appears completely divided.

 

I’m not sure it is with JJ, not to the same extent. If he convinces people he’s an absolute dog of a baller, his solid rounded skill set will become very appealing for a team to build upon.
 

Its’s where that become a viable/value pick. For those that want ‘safe’, shouldn’t he be viewed a safer pick at #2 rather than both Daniels and Maye ? 

 

Most in the media draft types are divided on the two.  But most (not all but a large majority) think both are better than McCarthy.

 

I don't know if he's seen as a safer pick considering you have to project more with him.  Not as many starts.  Not as many passes. Not much to see where its all on him.  I personally think he has the highest floor of the three (but I don't think that's anywhere close to some league consensus).  But am also in the camp that I don't give a rats behind about the highest floor.

 

For me, I want a QB that can take the team to the playoffs consistently.  High ceiling.  And i think both Maye and Daniels fits that better than McCarthy. 

 

I am not looking for the next Tannehill.  I want the next Herbert or Lamar Jackson.   

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

No, this is a common fan mistake because we get sick of all the nitpicking and back-and-forth for years on top prospects, and we internalize negativity easier than positivity. 
 

What you’re arguing is essentially this: “isn’t it better to have less information on a guy than more information, if the extra information divides people?” You’re giving McCarthy extra credit for being asked to do less, for putting less on tape, because it makes it harder to assess his flaws. 
 

Make no mistake, knowing much more about the strengths and weaknesses of the top 3 prospects is a good thing. Knowing less about a prospect (like JJ) is always a bad thing even if technically knowing less taints the conversation with less negativity from certain corners. That creates an illusion of “safety” that isn’t there. At all. 

Don’t think I was arguing that point, more putting it out there as an observation.

 

In terms of the more/less information point, that’s only relevant to us as casual fans, or indeed the media. I’m sure all NFL front offices have all the information they need on JJ McCarthy to make a firm assessment. The most common fan mistake is thinking we know better than those actually inside the process.

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

That's my thing with McCarthy too. He doesn't represent a home run swing. He's not awful, but after a 4 win season and the #2 overall pick, if JJ freaking McCarthy is our prize than that's a colossal disappointment.

Yeah JJ at #2 isn’t appealing to me either.

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Most in the media draft types are divided on the two.  But most (not all but a large majority) think both are better than McCarthy.

 

I don't know if he's seen as a safer pick considering you have to project more with him.  Not as many starts.  Not as many passes. Not much to see where it’s all on him.

 

I am not looking for the next Tannehill.  I want the next Herbert or Lamar Jackson.   

Yep. 
 

However, you actually have no idea if he’s the next Tannehill do you. He could be the next Burrow. You don’t have enough information to form that opinion on, as you note.

 

That’s why we’ve hired the best candidate for GM. He might project JJ differently. No idea. Either way, it’s going to keep us talking for years on the careers of this group 

[philibusters]

I am going to buy into whoever we chose because I am not an expert and I am going to trust our front office, but I definitely like Maye at the second pick.

[SoCalSkins]

58 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

That is a sad, but true statement,  right there.

 

The closest thing we've had is Theismann.

 

Almost 40 years ago.

 

 

 

Miami drafted Theismann as well. We haven’t drafted one since Sammy Baugh. 
 

We are due.

[alaroche04]

10 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I am going to buy into whoever we chose because I am not an expert and I am going to trust our front office, but I definitely like Maye at the second pick.

Yea it's not even close to me. Maye looks like a guy who'll be available most Sundays, and he'll be consistent and actually know how to play in an NFL offense, as opposed to Daniels who'll be on the sidelines holding a clipboard because he's a feather above 200 pounds and thinks he can outrun an NFL defense.

 

[Warhead36]

49 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I had come in here today thinking that overnight I had flipped from leaning slightly towards Daniels to leaning slightly towards Maye; largely because Maye just seems like the safer long term option.

 

Then I watched this video and in my gut I just knew what I would do, if I were the one making the call (and yes, luckily for all of us, I'm not- lol).

 

 

You're vastly overrating how much teams will fear Daniels. He's not going to be the run threat Jackson is. He's closer to Bustin Fields.

[SoCalSkins]

53 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I had come in here today thinking that overnight I had flipped from leaning slightly towards Daniels to leaning slightly towards Maye; largely because Maye just seems like the safer long term option.

 

Then I watched this video and in my gut I just knew what I would do, if I were the one making the call (and yes, luckily for all of us, I'm not- lol).

 

I'm rolling the dice on the guy that puts fear in the heart of a defense.

 

The guy that forces a defensive coordinator to come up with a special game plan to deal with this two way assassin in cleats.

 

The guy that makes every down 11 on 11, because the qb MUST be accounted for or he will gash you and take over the game.

 

The guy who has improved some aspect of his game every single year.

 

The guy that is absolutely, as DQ himself admitted-- a "game changer".

 

Yes, he occasionally takes crazy, ridiculous, foolish, and unnecessary risks. 

 

Risks that he will not survive in the NFL.

 

But life itself is a risky endeavor, and no choice we make is without risk.

 

I believe that our coaches can impress upon Jayden the importance of self protection,  and teach him to slide, or run out of bounds, like a young Russel Wilson.

 

If that can't be done-- I made the wrong decision.

 

Bottom line, as of this morning, he's the guy I'm going with.

 

For me the upside is worth the risk.

 

I know the majority of the forum disagrees with this, but that's where I'm planting my flag (for the moment at least-lol).

 

As always, I support whoever Peters, Quinn, and Harris choose.

 

I don't envy them in this task.

 

The hopes and dreams of an entire fan base is in the balance.

 

 

The guy is undoubtedly a worse prospect coming out of college than RG3 and Bryce Young. Our own Adam Peters supposedly told him to stay in school instead of declaring for the draft previously because he’s worth a 5th round pick and his skills don’t translate into the NFl.  
 

The guy is a 1 year wonder surrounded by really good talent. His other 4 years were not good.  He also makes Forbes look like a body builder. 
 

Can Caleb, Maye and JJ be busts? Absolutely and way more likely than not. Daniels however is nearly a certain bust. Sam Howell will be holding a clipboard on a sideline as a backup long after Daniels is out of the NFL. 

I honestly don’t get the hype around him and what people see in him. How can you look at as his hits alone from last year and think this dude will be available for 17 weeks a year over the span of a long career? It’s a fantasy. 
 

 

Edited March 21 by SoCalSkins

[Est.1974]

Have the Bears selected Williams yet, based on yesterday it sounded like the pick was almost in ?

[Llevron]

The more I think about it the more Maye makes the most sense. 
 

The trap teams fall into is having a QB that’s good enough that you have to pay like he’s top 5, but it’s not actually good enough to preform that way by himself. Dak is an example of one paid like it but can’t play. Mahomes is the obvious example of a guy who is paid and can preform. 
 

There is only one guy in the draft that has been asked to do it all by himself and actually succeeded at it. That’s something I value, I think, more than anything. He was THE guy. At some point if he is good enough he will have to the THE guy in the NFL because we won’t have enough money to pay him and everyone else. When I think of it like that it gets really obvious. 

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yep. 
 

However, you actually have no idea if he’s the next Tannehill do you. He could be the next Burrow. You don’t have enough information to form that opinion on, as you note.

 

That’s why we’ve hired the best candidate for GM. He might project JJ differently. No idea. Either way, it’s going to keep us talking for years on the careers of this group 

 

I don't have any idea.  My point for me, my favorite QB won't be the high floor QB -- medium ceiling.  That's how I see McCarthy.  I want to shoot higher.

 

As for what they think.  I got no idea of course.  Right now only leaks we got is from other teams.  For example multiple national reporters have said they've turned down trade inqueries and they got the vibe that they want to stay at #2. But will see.  Keim doesn't know who they like best but seems to have the vibe its Maye or Daniels.  But he also admits they are keeping it very tight and they probably have not decided.

 

But I do know that if I am judging this based on leaks from scouts-personnel guys including I got the first run of McGinn who talks to multiple personnel guys -- most of them considered Maye and Daniels as the superior QB prospect.  I borrowed an account from a friend to read it, I'd have to go back in to post some of it which I'll probably do some day.  They are almost always a bit mixed on players, because you got enough opinions where all the personnel guys don't agree -- but lol, whomever McGinn talked to about McCarthy it was a bit harsher than I expected.  Not bad but in short they weren't high on his ceiling.  One actually liked Rattler over him.

Edited March 21 by Skinsinparadise

[Spearfeather]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

Miami drafted Theismann as well. We haven’t drafted one since Sammy Baugh. 
 

We are due.

 

Well yeah, I know this is about the draft, but I was referring to this :

 

" who will be our starter for at least 10 years with the possibility of playing up to 15+ years. "

 

... drafted or not.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Spearfeather