The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RWJ]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Fully on the Maye train but don't sleep on JJ McCarthy.  Just saying.   Move down several spots pick up some needed assets in draft picks and take McCarthy.  We don't know what Adam Peters is going to do.    

[NOLA2DC]

14 minutes ago, mh86 said:

We all agree on this. The point was made that he doesn’t often make more than one read. I made it through his all 22 for this year and saw this. He does do it just like he does throw in the middle of the field, but it seems like he wasn’t asked to do it all the time. Just like Mayes accuracy issues, Daniels may have issues that need work here.
 

I’m not trying to come at you like I know what I’m doing, but you were making it out to be a non issue. On top of that when someone asked what cutups you watched you mentioned other people saying it was a non issue. then you replied to him with “obviously we’re seeing different film”, but you haven’t watched the film other than maybe the game days and highlights where he was lighting it up and you were cheering for your team. It’s okay, we all go nuts for our players and teams. I’m a university of Delaware fan, so Joe Flacco is my fav.

 

also, I don’t care who we pick of the QBs. Im going to go crazy for them and buy jerseys anyways. 

Fair enough, and I can admit I make summary judgments based on where he played and the completion he's faced. Also, there are mashups against Bama where he didn't look great, and I am not claiming it's an easy decision. Finally, you're on your own with the Flacco thing, but that's the way to support your fav team.   

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Do the bazillion ones posted in this thread every time his ability is questioned count?

 

Cutups or are you talking about one-off twitter clips?

 

53 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Obviously we're seeing different film. 

 

That's why I asked which game cutups you watched so I can make sure I'm watching the same stuff.

Edited February 15 by mistertim

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Cutups or are you talking about one-off twitter clips?

 

Everything

[smooth]

not in love with Daniels, If chicago would take a second round pick for fields , i pull the trigger 

[RandyHolt]

McCarthy or any QB throwing better when scrambling... maybe its because they are not over thinking footwork and mechanics and just doing what comes naturally.

[Conn]

Maye’s lapses in accuracy seem to be tied to inconsistent footwork, which can be fixed. [this is not a comparison] this is the same issue that basically disguised Mahomes as an elite thrower of the ball at every level of the field coming out of college [/this is not a comparison]

[HTTRDynasty]

9 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Having just watched half an hour of JJ McCarthy ‘highlights’ I’m going to risk everything and say this…

 

JJ McCarthy has some Joe Burrow about him in my opinion. I’m not saying he’s the next Joe Burrow. I really am not saying that before I get torched….

 

But, I actually like the look of him. I think I’d be good with us taking him, not with the #2 pick but certainly later within the top 10. He’s really got something about him that QBs need…..

[Koolblue13]

23 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Having just watched half an hour of JJ McCarthy ‘highlights’ I’m going to risk everything and say this…

 

JJ McCarthy has some Joe Burrow about him in my opinion. 

 

But, I actually like the look of him. I think I’d be good with us taking him, not with the #2 pick but certainly later within the top 10. He’s really got something about him that QBs need…..

That's quite the leap. I can't believe you'd call JJ a Burrow clone. 

 

I kid, but I like JJ a lot too, but I'm awful at QB evaluations.

 

I think 4 QBs go in the top 10 at minimum.

[Est.1974]

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's quite the leap. I can't believe you'd call JJ a Burrow clone. 

 

I kid, but I like JJ a lot too, but I'm awful at QB evaluations.

 

I think 4 QBs go in the top 10 at minimum.

 

I’m just waiting for SIP to join in…….

Edited February 15 by Est.1974

[Skinsinparadise]

Watched this last night, entertaining.

 

i like Klatt a lot as a college football commentator.  

 

I am not going to say who he has going at #2.  Again I find it irrelevant and the back and forth popularity contest between the QBs here, is mostly yawn to me but to each their own.  lol, its brought home to me how over the top I must have come off the last time we were picking #2 for a QB where I was pushing RG3 in 2012. 

 

But my point is when Klatt talked about this team at #2, he said (and he has covered a ton of college football for years) the QB he took for this team would be the #1 pick in the typical draft.

 

I like Caleb a lot.  But IMO add him to the big pile of people who cover college football, scouts, etc who really dig this years QB class.  It's a good year to be taking a Qb and pick high.  Carpe diem! 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m just waiting for SIP to join in…….

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m just waiting for SIP to join in…….

 

The thing about McCarthy for all we know he can go #4, why not?  The Raiders, Vikings, (maybe Giants), Denver maybe NO all seem to want a QB.  If I am the Cards I'd auction that pick.  So if this team trades down unless its to #4, I'd be against them ending up with McCarthy.

 

Do I think McCarthy is as talented as Maye or Daniels, nope.

 

But IMO he has a shot.  High intangibles.   Efficient QB -- 2nd best QB in this class throwing off platform.  He has wheels that I think he can use more.  IMO just average arm strength -- that's his weakness.  His build isn't as slight as Daniels but its close. 

 

I do think he's a good fit for Kliff's offense.  As far as concern mentioned about how much he played under center.  I don't care.  I've seen him play plenty enough out of shot gun.  The first game I watched of his, the 2022 Ohio State game which I wrote up about at the start of the college season last year on the draft thread -- he was in shotgun for most of the game.  I think he fits well with it because of his wheels, ability to throw off platform, and he can do the quick game, 1st level stuff.  I know Kliff's offense likes to threaten deep -- I think he's OK with the deep ball but nothing riveting.

 

Like Drake Maye he's young only 21 with room to grow.  Do I like him over Maye?  Nope.  Over Daniels?  Nope.  Do I think they get him trading down arbitrarily somewhere in the top 10?  Nope.  They'd have to trade IMO to 4 to ensure they get him, otherwise its likely a crap shoot.  Would i be excited about it?  Not even a little.  But I wouldn't hate it.  I would hate them trading down and actually missing out on him and being stuck in QB purgatory -- fireable offense to blow it IMO.

 

Part of the reason why i love being at #2 is you can control your own fate at QB for the most part.  When some say trade down, or punt to next year and trade up to get your QB -- to me is feels like fantasy wish casting.  Somehow the seas will part perfectly for us to get who we want.  It rarely does let alone banking on it working just because we want it to work in a perfect world and some seem to think that perfect world unfolds whenever it pleases us to get our target.

 

Heck just judging by Ron alone, he wanted things, those things didn't happen for him.  He by his own admission said Tua and Herbet felt too risky for him, thought they were flawed QBs so he passed on them.  Lets ride with Haskins again and see how that will work.  It backfired.   The next year, Stafford is available, lets go get him.  Stafford didn't want to come here and he got out bid.  And then he wanted apparently Justin Fields in that draft.  But teams wanted way too much so he didn't want to do that.  Then apparently they did like Mac Jones but he didn't fall to their pick.   Then the next year apparently they wanted Carr and Kirk in a trade but the teams weren't willing to trade them.  He got desperate and overpaid for Wentz.  Then apparently Hurney loved Richardson but they weren't picking high enough to get him.

 

My point is whether we like their targets or not, Rivera flailed around looking for a QB and the seas didn't part for him at all.  And the idea that some (not saying you) expect the sea to part for us in whatever permutation serves us are likely in dreamland.  The odds are much greater that your best laid plans will fail than work if you are betting on circumstance.

Edited February 15 by Skinsinparadise

[NOLA2DC]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watched this last night, entertaining.

 

i like Klatt a lot as a college football commentator.  

 

I am not going to say who he has going at #2.  Again I find it irrelevant and the back and forth popularity contest between the QBs here, is mostly yawn to me but to each their own.  lol, its brought home to me how over the top I must have come off the last time we were picking #2 for a QB where I was pushing RG3 in 2012. 

 

But my point is when Klatt talked about this team at #2, he said (and he has covered a ton of college football for years) the QB he took for this team would be the #1 pick in the typical draft.

 

I like Caleb a lot.  But IMO add him to the big pile of people who cover college football, scouts, etc who really dig this years QB class.  It's a good year to be taking a Qb and pick high.  Carpe diem! 

 

 

I saw it yesterday, and I get it. However, the thing about Caleb is that he's been the consensus #1 for almost two years. I can honestly say I never heard of Maye before this year so I didn't really buy the could have been #1 talk.  Daniels is the guy who has shot up the boards but I really don't see him going where Klatt slotted him.  In terms of Caleb, the question is can he live up to the hype. It's lying season, so I don't really believe anything outside of the # 1 pick. The McCarthy hype train sounds like Zach Wilson 2.0. 

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing about McCarthy for all we know he can go #4, why not?  The Raiders, Vikings, (maybe Giants), Denver maybe NO all seem to want a QB.  If I am the Cards I'd auction that pick.  So if this team trades down unless its to #4, I'd be against them ending up with McCarthy.

 

Do I think McCarthy is as talented as Maye or Daniels, nope.

 

But IMO he has a shot.  High intangibles.   Efficient QB -- 2nd best QB in this class throwing off platform.  He has wheels that I think he can use more.  IMO just average arm strength -- that's his weakness.  His build isn't as slight as Daniels but its close.

Good write up, thanks again.

 

His off platform play looks excellent. Arm strength looked better than average to me.

 

But yeah, if he’s got potential to go #4 as you say, who knows what gives come April.

 

I don’t watch much. And the knock on only seeing highlights is that you only see the good. I would counter than and say that you see what they are capable of, and therefore in the right infrastructure and coaching set up, that’s what you could get all of the time.

 

He passes the simple eye test to me. I liked the look of him.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, NOLA2DC said:

I saw it yesterday, and I get it. However, the thing about Caleb is that he's been the consensus #1 for almost two years. I can honestly say I never heard of Maye before this year so I didn't really buy the could have been #1 talk.  Daniels is the guy who has shot up the boards but I really don't see him going where Klatt slotted him.  In terms of Caleb, the question is can he live up to the hype. It's lying season, so I don't really believe anything outside of the # 1 pick. The McCarthy hype train sounds like Zach Wilson 2.0. 

 

You may not buy it but it indeed happened. 

 

Maye if anythig was maybe even more hyped the year before.  For us draftnik types who talked about the QBs before the previous draft, the Maye-Caleb discussion existed before the 2023 seaon and big time so.

 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-caleb-williams-vs-drake-maye-whos-qb1-in-the-2024-nfl-draft

 

Caleb Williams vs Drake Maye: Who’s QB1 in the 2024 NFL Draft?

By Max Chadwick
Apr 5, 2023

By now, you’re probably exhausted by the debates surrounding Bryce Young and C.J. Stroud about who should be the first overall pick in the 2023 NFL Draft. 

So instead of debating who should be picked first a few weeks from now, let’s begin the discussion of who should go first a year from now.

USC’s Caleb Williams and North Carolina’s Drake Maye already have scouts drooling over the 2024 NFL Draft. In fact, they were the first two picks in my mock draft if everyone in college football was eligible. 

Here’s what makes each player special, some early areas that need improvement and ultimately, who should be seen as the top quarterback prospect once and for all (at least until next season starts).

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Good write up, thanks again.

 

His off platform play looks excellent. Arm strength looked better than average to me.

 

But yeah, if he’s got potential to go #4 as you say, who knows what gives come April.

 

I don’t watch much. And the knock on only seeing highlights is that you only see the good. I would counter than and say that you see what they are capable of, and therefore in the right infrastructure and coaching set up, that’s what you could get all of the time.

 

He passes the simple eye test to me. I liked the look of him.

 

For arm strength I always feel that you got to watch it in person to know.  It's funny reading different reports from different draftnik types about these guys arm strength, its all over the place depending on what you read. 

 

To my eyes, average strength, he has to step into throws to get that velocity, back footed throws don't seem to have much velocity on them, that's my cheat code for judging.  But its night and day to see it up close, its part of the reason why i love going to training camp.

 

I think highlights are mostly useless especially for QBs aside from seeing their athleticism and general style of play.  If I was for example going on highlights alone, Haskins would go for me back then first in the draft.   

 

McCarthy I think comes off a bit boring and hence maybe doesn't get love in some corners.  Boring in that I don't think he comes off with any super power.  More of a jack of all trades.  I do think if he used his legs more that might evolve into a superpower.   

 

I think if this regime cares about buzz as a bonus.  And before someone takes my point out of context, i mean "bonus" where everything else feels equal, Caleb I think would be the biggest buzz pick with fans.  Daniels probably 2nd because of his running.  Drake 3rd.  McCarthy would be a distant 4th.

 

For me, I am

 

1. Caleb

2. Maye

3. Daniels

 

A peg drop off.

 

4.  McCarthy

5.  Nix

6. Penix

7. Rattler

Edited February 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

24 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

I saw it yesterday, and I get it. However, the thing about Caleb is that he's been the consensus #1 for almost two years. I can honestly say I never heard of Maye before this year so I didn't really buy the could have been #1 talk.  Daniels is the guy who has shot up the boards but I really don't see him going where Klatt slotted him.  In terms of Caleb, the question is can he live up to the hype. It's lying season, so I don't really believe anything outside of the # 1 pick. The McCarthy hype train sounds like Zach Wilson 2.0. 

You not paying attention isn’t evidence of anything tbh. And I don’t mean that rudely. But Maye was on everyone’s radar long before yours apparently, it’s not revisionist to say that. The moment he took over for Howell he was in the blue chip QB conversation. His 2022 was more impressive than his 2023, he just wasn’t eligible. Lots of people ignore players who aren’t eligible. 

[NOLA2DC]

Just now, Conn said:

You not paying attention isn’t evidence of anything tbh. And I don’t mean that rudely. But Maye was on everyone’s radar long before yours apparently, it’s not revisionist to say that. The moment he took over for Howell he was in the blue chip QB conversation. His 2022 was more impressive than his 2023, he just wasn’t eligible. Lots of people ignore players who aren’t eligible. 

That is fair point, and Skinsinparadise linked an article saying as much. For the record, I didn't say Maye was bad; I just did not hear the hype about him like I did CW. At first glance, Maye's 2023 season didn't look impressive, but I have seen the 2022 stats that look better.  I don't think it's a clear choice between Maye and Daniels after last season, but that's just my opinion, and I will not be disappointed in either pick.  

[Est.1974]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me, I am

 

1. Caleb

2. Maye

3. Daniels

 

A peg drop off.

 

4.  McCarthy

5.  Nix

1. Caleb - but is he a nut case in the making ?

2. Daniels - but can he comfortably add 20lbs ?

3. Maye - but should he be higher ? I just don’t see enough of something….

4. McCarthy - really like him but when you are sat at #2 it’s hard to justify going JJ.

5. Nix - really like him too, but again it would be settling for much less by a distance.

 

[PlayAction]

14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The only time we ever moved down only to move back up was the Ricky Williams trade, where we gave a bunch of the capital back to draft Champ Bailey. Granted Bailey ended up being a GOAT-tier CB, but still, not the best way to utilize assets.

 

Keep it simple. Draft whoever you think is the best between Maye or Daniels and start building around them.

Noone will believe we'll draft anything other than QB, but I could see us trying to talk up Howell so we can maybe trade him for a 4th rounder or something.

 

We have an entirely new front office.  The previous regime's approach to the draft isn't relevant to the new GM.  

 

The team needs a back-up QB.  It doesn't make any sense to trade Howell considering that the team (hopefully!!!) will have a better OL in 2024 and a play caller that will support inexperienced QBs.  The better that Howell does in the preseason, the better he will be as a back-up and the higher value he will have in any future trade.

[kingdaddy]

Sam Howell is just 23 years old and is about to be coached by a much more focused coaching staff who won't put nearly as much pressure on him as the previous regime did. I could see his career playing out similar to Baker Mayfield's where he takes a step back before moving forward. I love the toughness of Howell; if he's as mentally tough as he is physically I think he'll make it in the NFL for someone. I hope our staff sees something in him and coaches him up as a real asset be it as a backup or starter somewhere down the road. Sam can sling it and run, just needs to learn and grow into better decisions given more support. 

[PlayAction]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

1. Caleb - but is he a nut case in the making ?

2. Daniels - but can he comfortably add 20lbs ?

3. Maye - but should he be higher ? I just don’t see enough of something….

4. McCarthy - really like him but when you are sat at #2 it’s hard to justify going JJ.

5. Nix - really like him too, but again it would be settling for much less by a distance.

 

 

Very important questions.  IMO, you have to avoid nut cases and those whose heads are not focused on football.  However, prima donna QBs are common.  If Daniels runs like RG3 it's a hard pass for me.  I don't want to see Bambi getting hit by Mack trucks every game.  Daniels would always be beat up.  If he can't play due to injuries, then he can't help the team.  Is Maye your guy?  What are you not seeing?  Would you like him more at a lower pick or do you think he's just not going to pan out as a franchise QB?    

[BayouBrave86]

JJ is a poor man’s Daniel Jones. Whatever GM is dumb enough to draft him the first round is likely going to get fired in the next 3-4 years lol