The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MartinC]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol is there a way to bulk up the bottom half? He has obviously gained muscle mass in his arms but still slender everywhere else. 

 

Yeah calf press. It was literally the only machine in the gym I used to put weights on when I used it.

 

I was a soccer GK. You spend a lot of time heels off the ground on the balls of your feet and that works your calf’s - my calf’s are still the strongest muscles I have pound for pound!

[CommanderInTheRye]

Daniels is continuing to get some pre-combine momentum.

 

Honestly, until the combine begins and the coaches get involved in interviews and film study, everything we see and hear is subject to change.

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We heard the same argument for Forbes last year and did anything happen? 

 

Lets not get into that level of dumb again. That was one of the single stupidest takes on this site. It does not happen that fast.

 

This kind of thinking is right in line with people proposing that the kid could add 20-25lbs before the season. Its not naturally possible.

Functional, stable and healthy growth does not work like that... unless your on drugs.

 

You can't gain functional strength and reshape your body in the couple months between the draft and camp, we were never going to see significant growth in Forbes that fast, but we can witness it over a span of years. Slow and meticulous is how it will occur.

 

 

We probably will see some level of noticeable visible change when he shows up to training camp this year.

Edited February 14 by FootballZombie

[CapsSkins]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol is there a way to bulk up the bottom half? He has obviously gained muscle mass in his arms but still slender everywhere else. 

 

Ah, NFLChick… you’re falling for the oldest trick in the book. As a fellow slender / lean guy myself, I too have mastered the art of the crossed arms flexing and using folded hands to pop out the biceps pose! 
 

Don’t be fooled — this is Mr. Jayden in November 2023. Still a string bean!

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

32 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Ah, NFLChick… you’re falling for the oldest trick in the book. As a fellow slender / lean guy myself, I too have mastered the art of the crossed arms flexing and using folded hands to pop out the biceps pose! 
 

Don’t be fooled — this is Mr. Jayden in November 2023. Still a string bean!

 

 

 

These pics are from LSU pro day last year (hence the "pro day" shirt). He's always had arm muscles, just a slender frame. He does look small in the uniform

 

Edited February 14 by ThatNFLChick

[Est.1974]

8 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I haven't paid much attention to him tbh. Apparently he had an up and down Senior Bowl.

 

 

Ok thanks.

 

I’m firmly in the Williams-Daniels as my #1-2 QBs.

 

I have Maye as QB #3 but currently can’t see him worth that high selection, however I get that is an unpopular take.

 

Maye at #2

 

Or trade back to the 9-13 range, take BPA.

Bank a stack of picks in the process.

Then jump back up to say #31 in a trade with SF for a guy like Bo Nix.

 

Maye v Nix, is there a massive gulf in their ability ? Wonder if one of our resident QB guru’s has a take on that….

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

 

Then jump back up to say #31 in a trade with SF for a guy like Bo Nix.

 

Maye v Nix, is there a massive gulf in their ability ? Wonder if one of our resident QB guru’s has a take on that….

 

 

I don't think anyone is a genuine QB guru otherwise we'd be wasting our time here.   It's a hard position of course to deduce.  Some (not you) though here seem to think they have it figured out     You told me in another post, you aren't down on Maye.  Reading your posts that's a tough sell claming you aren't down on him. 

 

I did long write ups on Maye and Nix on the draft thread, eons ago.  My comps are Herbert for Maye, for Nix sort of a cross between Colt Mccoy and Daniel Jones.  

 

Nix's superpower IMO is throwing on the first level -- YAC,  Hits receivers in stride.  Screens.  Throws in the flat.  Reminds me of Daniel Jones and Colt McCoy on that front with arm strength more similar to Jones and mobility somewhere in between the two.   Had a bad Senior Bowl, which you don't see happen that often including oddly struggling with the first level throws that he was good at in college.  Good dude.  I think he's a high floor, low ceiling QB with a career similar to somewhere between Colt and Daniel.  But will see.

 

Drake's talent IMO is higher end.  His weakness is Nix's strength and strength is Nix's weakness.  That is Drake, drives the ball down the field, makes tight window throws, much more daring passer and IMO has a stronger arm.  Though Nix's arm isn't bad. Drake's issue IMO are those first level throws which he rushes and doesn't always set his feet properly for.

 

I'd rather just run with Howell and accept that this team will go back to living in that 8-9, 9-8 world and that's our speed and we should just live with it and we are destined to watch other teams in the playoffs than take Nix with the 2nd pick.  I think Howell can reach Nix levels of play.   I'd rather not touch a QB in the later rounds unless we are thinking backup -- on that front I'd go Pratt or Rattler.

 

To get back to 8-9, 9-8 land we'd at least need to rebuild that roster so I wouldn't favor taking another QB who meets that speed, I think we have that already.  It's building that roster back and then we can be up there with the Atlanta Falcons types if the goal is to often have that shot at the wildcard, often come short but every 4 years or so sneak in and quickly get eliminated.

 

 

Edited February 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

You told me in another post, you aren't down on Maye.  Reading your posts that's a tough sell claming you aren't down on him. 

I’m not down on Maye just yet to be convinced he’s worth the #2 pick…..

 

And thanks for the write up.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’m not down on Maye just yet to be convinced he’s worth the #2 pick…..

 

And thanks for the write up.

 

I don't want ideally a QB with a low ceiling.  As for Nix he might have one of the highest floors but I don't feel as confident of that as I did pre-Senior Bowl.  Surprised he had a "meh" Senior Bowl.     Senior Bowl aside, I do think he can have a long career in the NFL but I doubt its as a top 15 type QB.  I am guessing 3rd tier type.

 

If they are dropping down, the only one I'd go for is McCarthy but considering McCarthy has top 10 hype i don't see how this team can drop down and be confident that he would be there waiting for them considering all the other QB needy teams.

 

I get a bit feisty on this point because most of these regimes inherited or got a QB without serious pedigree.  Spurrier got Ramsey, 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.   Gibbs with Campbell, -- 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.    Haskins who the teams own scouts rated as a third rounder, taken in the mid first. My other point on that if you are stuck back with third-forth tier QBs, you aren't becoming a serious contender, you are stuck at the same place you've been for the last 30 plus years.  

 

RG3 was the exception.  And it flamed out but for one season it was electric.   This time we don't even have to trade up.  We are right there.  Shoot high take Maye or if not Daniels is fine.  This is a good draft for QBs -- yes all the fans don't agree on that but they don't ever agree on that subject so if we wait for fan agreement here or on twitter we might have wait until 2064 to get that QB high.  Jordan Reid, ex-college QB, also said its a good draft for QBs the other day on Keim's podcast.  It's the conventional wisdom with the scouting community.

 

For me going for the next Haskins, Campbell, Ramsey type of that tier pedigree would feel nauseating. 

 

Maye has very high upside.  So does Daniels.  Daniels IMO has further to go in his development and am worried about his durability so hence I favor Maye.  But both dudes would be #1 in other drafts.  And that's not just me saying it.  Personnel-scouts have said the same in quotes that I've put here especially as to Maye. 

Edited February 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't want ideally a QB with a low ceiling.  As for Nix he might have one of the highest floors but I don't feel as confident of that as I did pre-Senior Bowl.  Surprised he had a "meh" Senior Bowl.     Senior Bowl aside, I do think he can have a long career in the NFL but I doubt its as a top 15 type QB.  I am guessing 3rd tier type.

I just watched a bit of him yesterday and thought, yeah there’s something about him. I thought Purdy-like. But that’s a very quick take 

 

However, agree with your overall point. We are sat primed to take our chance on one of the top 2 QB prospects, whichever we favour in the end.
 

Hard to see them passing that over……

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

I just watched a bit of him yesterday and thought, yeah there’s something about him. I thought Purdy-like. But that’s a very quick take 

 

However, agree with your overall point. We are sat primed to take our chance on one of the top 2 QB prospects, whichever we favour in the end.
 

Hard to see them passing that over……

 

I've watched some Nix interviews, he comes off like a good dude.  With QBs, you never know.  My guess with Nix is Colt Mccoy is his floor and Daniel Jones is his ceiling but I think he can meet that ceiling.   He doesn't strike me high upside, that's my issue with him.  But I think he will have a long career.

[Skinsinparadise]

Maybe another way for me to put it is, if you hit it on a high ceiling you are set.  Drake and Daniels IMO have a high ceiling.

 

Yes there is some bust concern with both.  It's rare where there isn't bust concern.  Herbert had plenty bust concern -- accuracy.   So did Watson -- decision making.  So did Mahomes -- system QB can he adjust to the pros?  Josh Allen -- accuracy.

 

But their upside was high.   Peters is a smart dude. Klingsbury for his faults supposedly is very good at diciphering QBs -- same dude who supposedly discovered Mahomes.

 

We should be in good hands I wouldn't fret them making a bad decision.  It's possible they blow it in the end but it won't be because they can't make a decision that exceeds the average fan.

 

 

Kingsbury was one of the first to believe in Mahomes as a quarterback, taking a chance on him when few colleges were willing to do so.

“They were really the first and only,” Mahomes said of Texas Tech. “I didn’t get recruited by [many schools]; I got a couple other offers from smaller schools in the Texas area... I credit Kingsbury, because he was the one who came down and saw me, talked to me, talked to my family and believed in me. That’s the reason I’m in this position — because he gave me a chance.”

 

One of the things the quarterback respects the most about Kingsbury is his decision to allow Mahomes to continue the style of quarterback play that he had always had, respecting his tools as a prospect rather than suppressing them with too much coaching.

“I think he was early in the game of saying ‘let’s maximize your strengths,’” said Mahomes. “He would teach me how to be more mechanical in the pocket and with the fundamentals of the game, but he never restricted who I was — and that’s amplified with Coach Reid now. I could’ve went somewhere and they could’ve made me this pocket quarterback, but he let me be who I was on (and off) the field — and it helped me become the player I am.”

 

Kingsbury’s words to Mahomes as he left for the NFL Draft still stick with the quarterback today, fueling him to continually get better.

“I think the biggest piece of advice he gave me was to ‘be all-in either way’ — whether that was coming back to Texas Tech [to] win a Big 12 championship [and] make my draft grade go higher, or make that step and go to the NFL; give everything I have. That’s what I got from a lot of people around me, and it all worked out. I was projected a second or third-round pick, [so I] did everything I could at the combine training, then got to the Chiefs and kept that same mentality — and it’s helped me become the player I am.”

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2022/9/8/23340926/chiefs-qb-patrick-mahomes-credits-cardinals-coach-kliff-kingsbury-for-helping-him-develop

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't want ideally a QB with a low ceiling.  As for Nix he might have one of the highest floors but I don't feel as confident of that as I did pre-Senior Bowl.  Surprised he had a "meh" Senior Bowl.     Senior Bowl aside, I do think he can have a long career in the NFL but I doubt its as a top 15 type QB.  I am guessing 3rd tier type.

 

If they are dropping down, the only one I'd go for is McCarthy but considering McCarthy has top 10 hype i don't see how this team can drop down and be confident that he would be there waiting for them considering all the other QB needy teams.

 

I get a bit feisty on this point because most of these regimes inherited or got a QB without serious pedigree.  Spurrier got Ramsey, 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.   Gibbs with Campbell, -- 2nd round talent who was a surprise late first round pick.    Haskins who the teams own scouts rated as a third rounder, taken in the mid first. My other point on that if you are stuck back with third-forth tier QBs, you aren't becoming a serious contender, you are stuck at the same place you've been for the last 30 plus years.  

 

RG3 was the exception.  And it flamed out but for one season it was electric.   This time we don't even have to trade up.  We are right there.  Shoot high take Maye or if not Daniels is fine.  This is a good draft for QBs -- yes all the fans don't agree on that but they don't ever agree on that subject so if we wait for fan agreement here or on twitter we might have wait until 2064 to get that QB high.  Jordan Reid, ex-college QB, also said its a good draft for QBs the other day on Keim's podcast.  It's the conventional wisdom with the scouting community.

 

For me going for the next Haskins, Campbell, Ramsey type of that tier pedigree would feel nauseating. 

 

Maye has very high upside.  So does Daniels.  Daniels IMO has further to go in his development and am worried about his durability so hence I favor Maye.  But both dudes would be #1 in other drafts.  And that's not just me saying it.  Personnel-scouts have said the same in quotes that I've put here especially as to Maye. 

In pretty much 💯 agreement with this take

[Skinsinparadise]

On another note, boy are they telegraphing they are taking a QB.

 

A.  Hiring a staff that specilaizes in college offense -- setting up that QB for an easy adjustment

 

B.  Klingbury's record as an O coordinator isn't pristine. But listening to many narratives about him for those who know him and covered him -- if he has one niche its evaluating QB talent and developing them.

 

Some forget but Josh Rosen had some hype even after his rookie season.  Some drooled over his mechanics-foot work, etc.  Yet Kliff discarded him and went with Murray.  That decision was clearly the right one. 

Edited February 14 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note, boy are they telegraphing they are taking a QB.

 

A.  Hiring a staff that specilaizes in college offense -- setting up that QB for an easy adjustment

 

B.  Klingbury's record as an O coordinator isn't pristine. But listening to many narratives about him for those who know him and covered him -- if he has one niche its evaluating QB talent and developing them.

 

Some forget but Josh Rosen had some hype even after his rookie season.  Some drooled over his mechanics-foot work, etc.  Yet Kliff discarded him and went with Murray.  That decisionw as clearly the right one. 

The first 2-3 years for a QBs development is critical and you need stability there. I just hope all our coaches get on the same page regarding the QB. 

[redskinss]

4 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Maye v Nix, is there a massive gulf in their ability ?

It's a little disingenuous to say you're not down on Maye and make this statement. 

 

By all accounts maye is a top 3 pick while Nix is all over the place but generally somewhere between late first and early second.

 

It's ok to be down on Maye and high on williams and or daniels,  just say it.

 

I for one don't have a strong opinion on any of them, I'm leaning maye for reasons that have already been stated a thousand times like body type and play style, it's my self admitted unprofessional opinion that those things are more sustainable but if the coaches and scouts like daniels better that's cool with me too, I'll probably just be a little more nervous every time he gets popped, I'll be watching him get off the ground with one eye open and letting out a huge sigh of relief if he walks away unscathed.

[Warhead36]

I will say regarding Daniels that the most fun Ive ever had was 2012 with RG3 and JD has that level of electricity. Wed be so much fun to watch. The question is how sustainable is it…

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, redskinss said:

It's a little disingenuous to say you're not down on Maye and make this statement. 

I assume that’s not a compliment 

[Rolo Tomasie]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've watched some Nix interviews, he comes off like a good dude.  With QBs, you never know.  My guess with Nix is Colt Mccoy is his floor and Daniel Jones is his ceiling but I think he can meet that ceiling.   He doesn't strike me high upside, that's my issue with him.  But I think he will have a long career.

SIP I feel like you type my takes on this QB issue better than I could. I'm not down on Daniels, I would drool over his potential in almost any other scenario. But I slightly prefer Maye.

The only thing I would add to your list of reasons why is something I feel like so many posters neglect: projection. We need to judge these guys on what they could be 2-3 years from now, not what they are now.

One reason I cannot get on board the Nix train is that I watched him a good bit back when he was at Auburn ( in other words when he was about the same age as Maye is) and he was about as "meh" of a QB as you can get. He has gotten better for sure but I can't get over seeing that lack of true arm talent and play making ability.

Maye on the other hand has terrific arm talent, spiced up with some decent athleticism and play making ability, although he does mix in some bad plays and inaccurate throws. But if you project what Maye could look like a couple years down the road, with similar growth to what Nix and Daniels have shown as they matured, you can potentially see a really freaking good, franchise-altering quarterback. It's a gamble and he could fail to develop any more and bust. But I think it's a calculated gamble you have to take, as long as you see from him what you want to see in interviews, testing, pro day, etc 

 

Edited February 14 by Rolo Tomasie

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I assume that’s not a compliment 

It's not an insult either just an observation. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

It's not an insult either just an observation. 

 

 

As an aside I have seen Nix ranked as QB #4 by a couple of the more featured analysts, so there is that. But I understand that Maye is ranked higher. My point was

 

Maye at #2

 

v

 

Nix, a couple of future first rounders, a couple of extra day 2 picks.

[ThatNFLChick]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note, boy are they telegraphing they are taking a QB.

 

A.  Hiring a staff that specilaizes in college offense -- setting up that QB for an easy adjustment

 

B.  Klingbury's record as an O coordinator isn't pristine. But listening to many narratives about him for those who know him and covered him -- if he has one niche its evaluating QB talent and developing them.

 

Some forget but Josh Rosen had some hype even after his rookie season.  Some drooled over his mechanics-foot work, etc.  Yet Kliff discarded him and went with Murray.  That decision was clearly the right one. 

 

The Josh Rosen thing made sense to me. He was barely the 4th QB taken in that draft, had an injury history (had to have surgery on the shoulder of his throwing arm in college), had a ton of maturity/leadership issues, and Kingsbury DID NOT draft him. Steve Wilks drafted him and then was fired after they went 3-13 and Rosen finished his rookie season with Bryce Young rookie season numbers (11 TDs and 14 INTs). When Kingsbury was hired he wanted to select his own QB for his system and they had the #1 pick so he could. 

[redskinss]

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I will say regarding Daniels that the most fun Ive ever had was 2012 with RG3 and JD has that level of electricity. Wed be so much fun to watch. The question is how sustainable is it…

 

This is true and beyond just the health fears there's also a question as to where the ceiling is from a success standpoint. 

 

The quarterbacks who's main weapon is their legs have had plenty of regular season success but they tend to run into brick walls in the postseason.

 

Injury is my number one concern with guys who are electric with their feet as we've all seen with rg3 but sustainable success is my number 2 concern.

I want the next cj stroud more than I want the next lamar Jackson, that said I'd take either one if I could know for sure that's what I'd be getting but that's the tricky part isn't it.

3 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

As an aside I have seen Nix ranked as QB #4 by a couple of the more featured analysts, so there is that. But I understand that Maye is ranked higher. My point was

 

Maye at #2

 

v

 

Nix, a couple of future first rounders, a couple of extra day 2 picks.

 

That's definitely a horse of a different color then.

 

It appeared to me you were comparing the two straight up.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

47 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I will say regarding Daniels that the most fun Ive ever had was 2012 with RG3 and JD has that level of electricity. Wed be so much fun to watch. The question is how sustainable is it…

That is assuming Kliff is like Kyle and can craft a one read offense that will work in 2024.

 

 

[HigSkin]

Seems like a big push lately for Jayden Daniels to Washington.  GetUp had a "bit" on it this morning with Field Yates, Riddick (says clear #2), etc. where Field has us taking Daniels.

 

Meanwhile, Matt Miller with Abraham and then last week on GetUp with that crew.

 

 

Edited February 14 by HigSkin