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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I expected that, make the Browns game prep for both.  Wentz stretches the field, Heinicke doesn't.  Other differences in preperation. 

I think if he was leaning Heinicke he would have said there will be no change at todays presser, he gave the same spiel about needing to talk with people before he makes the decision. Same thing we heard when he announced Heinicke would retain the job when Wentz was healthy again.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Got it - thanks.

 

To be clear, I didn’t say I *am* presently cool with Wentz at $20M. My point is that I think it’s possible that he has improved with more time in the system this year, and better complementary football, such that he could play better over the next few weeks to the point that he becomes worth bringing back at $20M over Carr at $40M.

 

The takeaway is: I don’t think there’s any chance Wentz plays well enough to come back at $28M. I also don’t think he has a market at $28M, and since we have all the leverage, it only would make sense to bring him back if the price tag comes down.

 

Of course, he could also play just as badly as he did to start the season in which case I’d say don’t bring him back no matter what. But I’ve come around to the notion that it takes time for a QB to get used to a new system, which would apply to both Carson and any other QB we bring in, and which we’ve seen play out around the league. So that would also inform my calculus on making a decision at the position for next year.

 

Carr at $35M would make me queasy but I could stomach it. Carr at $40M and I’m probably out. If we can re-structure him to a $30M cap hit though, I’m very interested. My guess is he’d have a number of suitors at that price point. If LV does trade him, he’d need to waive his NTC, meaning I’m sure the agent would be looped in and negotiating extensions with would-be trade partners.

 

I do think we’d be an attractive destination with the pieces we have in place and our conference.

 

I have some cognitive dissonance with Carr.  I have thought for years he's an underappreciated QB -- punished for being good but not great.  But i don't want to pay a price that's equal to him being great.  So I'd be jazzed to have him but the contract would be a big plot line for me.

 

As far as Wentz, yeah i guess if he plays really well, i'd consider at a lower number.   I'd want to see some mobility though. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think if he was leaning Heinicke he would have said there will be no change at todays presser, he gave the same spiel about needing to talk with people before he makes the decision. Same thing we heard when he announced Heinicke would retain the job when Wentz was healthy again.

 

Agree.

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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I have some cognitive dissonance with Carr.  I have thought for years he's an underappreciated QB -- punished for being good but not great.  But i don't want to pay a price that's equal to him being great.  So I'd be jazzed to have him but the contract would be a big plot line for me.

 

As far as Wentz, yeah i guess if he plays really well, i'd consider at a lower number.   I'd want to see some mobility though. 

 

I’m bearish on Wentz showing much mobility but hopeful he can show quicker decision making and some better accuracy.

 

*If* Wentz improves in those areas, I could see us fielding a run-first, play-action driven offense and running the Jimmy G/Tannehill playbook of quick hitting receivers in stride for YAC and taking play-action deep shots to complement a strong ground game with a great defense on the other side.

 

If Wentz can do that at $20M, he’s a compelling option. I think Carr can do better than that, but not $40M worth.

 

I do tend to think we’re past Peak QB-Driven League Mania. Russell Wilson in Denver is the canary in the coal mine.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)

 

 

16 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I do tend to think we’re past Peak QB-Driven League Mania. Russell Wilson in Denver is the canary in the coal mine.

 

Some QB's fall of a cliff in their mid 30s, Eli, Marino, etc some don't.  Looks like Wilson is one of those fall off the cliff guys.   Though you never know he might bounce back next season.  Watson doesn't have age as an excuse, though he can bounce back, too. 

 

Stafford looked great in year 1 but got hurt this year.  Some wildcard for sure for moves for QBs.

 

Eons ago, we acquired Brunell who was a mobile QB who relied on his legs and was on the downside of that in his career, ditto McNabb.  Ditto Alex but to a lesser extent but he of course had a reason for it.    I bring that up because as for Wilson, it leaked after the trade that Seattle watching him in practice saw a major decline in his mobility of late and hence they traded him,

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Jumbo

Jumbo

Posted
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3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I couldnt hate a move more than trading for Carr. Its the same move we have done for 2 decades. 

 

So you're not going to be a Card Carrying member of the Carr Caravan?

 

Maybe the Garapolo Gang?

 

The Minions of Minchew?

 

Friends of Foles?

 

The Trubisky Tribe?

 

oh yeah Somebody stop me GIF

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted

Whatever QB Ron gets for 23, is likely a just termer.  
 

Unless the Commies go deep into the playoffs with his 23 QB choice; we are probably drafting a qb in 24.

 

The new Top Commander knows his new franchise’s success is tied to qb. So, unless the 23 qb does extremely well; that qb will get the boot in 24. 

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Commander Wolffe

Commander Wolffe

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Posted

Ideal scenario for me being played out by the squad. See what Wentz has under different circumstances but the added pressure to win. I want to see our WRs work with QB that has the arm to take advantage of their skillset. The Wentz approach is going down swinging for the fences as opposed to bunt singles as a primary option to score.

 

Overall, the team is still in it albeit barely with the playoffs on the mind which is more than what most teams can say. We also haven't seen Wentz get hot. Two more games and maybe the playoffs. It could be a fun ride or we atleast understand we're a .500 going into the offseason.

 

 

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MrJL

MrJL

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Posted
12 minutes ago, HTTSkins said:

Not sure the roster is set up to win or not but damn sure tired of retreads and stop gap QBs.  Draft somebody and play the dude 

 

we've done that.  Patrick Ramsey and RG3 all played some or all of their rookie seasons.  Hell, Cousins even managed to get in 3 games with one start in the same rookie year as RG3. Campbell and Howell are the only rookies we've sat

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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We drafted a bunch of QBs, 4 in the first round

 

And we traded for QBs

 

And we signed FAs.

 

The idea that we haven't tried something obviously isn't the case.  IMO its not that every trade is bad, every veteran move is bad, every FA is bad, or every pick in the draft is bad.  We are just chasing the wrong QBs that's all.  

 

In their defense most teams do strike out more than hit on Qbs.  Eagles though IMO is a good model they tried everything.   For example, they traded for Bradford, took a QB early, took one in the 2nd, took one in the fourth, signed FAs.  Just keep swinging.

 

I am not locked in to specific way to do this.  Be Zen.  It's all about context.  Don't force a pick in the draft just to take one but also don't be gun shy because you've missed in the draft in the past.  Don't be shy to trade for a dude just because some other trades didn't work out.   See what's out there and don't lock yourself in to just one avenue.   IMO don't give a rats behind about what worked or didn't work before, each transaction is its own animal.

 

49ers traded for Jimmy G.  Traded the moon to get Lance.  Took Purdy in the 7th round.  they tried a mix of everything.  It's perfectly fine.  

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DJHJR86

DJHJR86

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I couldnt hate a move more than trading for Carr. Its the same move we have done for 2 decades. 

 

Derek Carr is Carson Wentz with eyeliner.  I do think Carr is a better leader, but don't expect any different results with him.  Malik Willis looks legitimately terrible so it would shock me if the Titans were to move on from Tannehill.  I'm still 100% behind Minshew.  

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Derek Carr is Carson Wentz with eyeliner.  I do think Carr is a better leader, but don't expect any different results with him.  Malik Willis looks legitimately terrible so it would shock me if the Titans were to move on from Tannehill.  I'm still 100% behind Minshew.  

Anti Carr, Pro Minshew.  :ols: 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Anti Carr, Pro Minshew.  :ols: 

 

My main pause with Minshew is Jay Gruden is a borderline pollyana when talking about Qbs.  Yet, he worked with Minschew and it's not hard to pick up that he thought he was a cool dude but very limited, almost sounded like he was describing Heinicke to a tee.  Forgot the interview when he talked about it, it was sometime last year.

 

I haven't reallty sat down and watched Minshew that closely. I will since he's going to be a FA.  But it stuck with me that Jay was unimpressed with his skills -- but again I got the impression that he loved the person and that he played with a lot of heart but his skills put a clear ceiling on him.  I don't recall everything he said but listening to him, I recall thinking he's basically describing Taylor.  

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Derek Carr is Carson Wentz with eyeliner.  I do think Carr is a better leader, but don't expect any different results with him.  Malik Willis looks legitimately terrible so it would shock me if the Titans were to move on from Tannehill.  I'm still 100% behind Minshew.  

 

Watching Carr what reminds you of Wentz stlylistically?

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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