The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Not at the moment. Check back next season.

 

You really think Mahomes will be living with his sister next season?...Can't say I agree with you lol.

[Conn]

15 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I know it was non-contact injury since I was watching the game and all lol

The point was you are running and take a cut or something to avoid a defender and your knee goes out. But yeah I guess it could happen on a bootleg too. I still think Taylor likes to be known as a pocket passer more than a runner aka dual threat even though he has done well running as well. 

 

He is not a dual-threat because you need to make defenses fear and respect your legs to be that. 
 

A ligament tear in the knee is a freak thing that can happen at any time. Including non-contact just from stepping funny. So I’ll repeat that it had nothing to do with the choice to run or not run, and across the league the vast majority of ACL’s and the like are non-contact, rather than caused by bone-crunching impacts. Murray tearing his ACL just isn’t related to whether Heinicke should run more or not lol. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I haven't watched Mac Jones this year, but I watched him in Alabama plenty and the dude while doesn't have a gun, he threw deep plenty -- and it is a gun compared to Taylor but its an average arm.  And he was more than willing to throw deep.

 

Its definitely not a one sided argument that Mac is the problem.  He might be but plenty think Patricia is comically bad including apparently Mac himself.  I've read all the short screens, etc that they are throwing that a post here is suggesting is Mac's fault ironically is the heart of Mac's beef with the offense including throwing f-bombs Patrica's way during the game because of how conservative Patricia's plan is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[TheShredder]

6 hours ago, Conn said:

 

He is not a dual-threat because you need to make defenses fear and respect your legs to be that. 
 

A ligament tear in the knee is a freak thing that can happen at any time. Including non-contact just from stepping funny. So I’ll repeat that it had nothing to do with the choice to run or not run, and across the league the vast majority of ACL’s and the like are non-contact, rather than caused by bone-crunching impacts. Murray tearing his ACL just isn’t related to whether Heinicke should run more or not lol. 

Not really, our ligaments are very resilient...but I get it, as non-contact tears are common among athletes that wear cleats. The studs create an anchor that doesn't allow the joint to work the way it's designed to and counter forces can pop the supporting structures. Difference is a beach volleyball player lands and turns like Murray and it's a sprain. Same guy with cleats on and he's off to the OR.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 hours ago, zCommander said:

Do you think Taylor should still run more after seeing Kyler Murray hurting his knee (looks like he might be done for the year) on the 3rd play of the game where he takes off running? I could see why Taylor doesn't like to run more to protect himself. I don't blame him for doing what is best for him. His stock does take a hit but staying healthy does look good for whatever the future holds for him though.

Leave it to Z, to psycho analyze why Taylor doesn’t run and point to a freak non-contact injury as a legitimate reason he doesn’t run more often. 🤣

 

If only we had screenshots…

[redskinss]

7 hours ago, zCommander said:

I still think Taylor likes to be known as a pocket passer more than a runner aka dual threat even though he has done well running as well. 

I could list a dozen quarterbacks who are far far deadlier from the pocket than heinicke and still use their legs as a weapon to move the chains and keep defenses on their toes.

 

If what you believe is true and heinicke doesn't run because he believes he should be a pocket passer and or is trying to protect his career then the respect I have for him as a football player is gone.

 

I absolutely loved his fearlessness against the bucs in the playoff game and that offseason (despite his shortcomings) I really wanted to see what he could if given the job.

Now that he seems to be leary to take off and he just sits behind guys 8 inches taller than him getting half of his noodles batted back into his face I have no interest in seeing him out there at all.

 

I hate to sound callus and mean but the reality from a football standpoint is that heinicke is expendable, he knew that in the bucs game and it showed how he put everything on the line, he doesn't do that anymore and his game suffers greatly because of it.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Should be interesting off season.  I am in a different place than where I typically am as to the QB spot.

 

I am not with these two schools of thought

 

A.  Finding a franchise QB is simply a matter of will.  My take is that's an unrealsitic pie in the sky thought and in some cases motivated by the dislike of Ron Rivera.   Ron somehow should be able to solve easily that biggest puzzle that has foiled this organization for over 30 years by coaching staff after coaching staff and FO after FO. 

 

I agree with the spirit of the point which is you find that QB its a game changer -- now you are consistently relevant and out of the dungeon finally.  I disagree that its easy to do.  And i 100% disagree that its damning that Ron hasn't solved this.  To me its like telling the class nerd change your love life by finding a swim suit model.  Yeah it sounds great in theory and bless the dude for trying but i am not blaming him for not pulling it off yet.  Keep swinging.

 

B.  we are STILL in our perpetual 3 years away mode so what's the difference what we do at QB.  Nothing has changed.  this roster is the same as name that year.  We are a mile away from other teams.  So build up draft capital and either start over or stick to a medium level of rebuild.   

 

My take.  The right take.   is this.

 

A.  This roster rivals the Gibbs 2 roster, I think its actually better.  Heck I was just listening to London Fletcher talk about this defense and he agrees.  Cooley who was on those teams is really high on this roster.  Gibbs 2 roster was squandered IMO with below average QB play.  I'll give them credit that they recoginzed the problem and tried to solve it but failed.  IMO they need to do what Gibbs did and swing to fix this.  Gibbs needed a QB and weapons and was hit and miss on that front but more misses.  This team IMO needs the QB and O line.

 

B.  This is a departure for me.  But I can see winning @Koolblue13 style as for what he pushes  -- old school Marty ball.  I am not adverse to trying to doing with the Titans are doing, etc.  Heck I watched my least favorite QB last Sunday, Sam Darnold, win with playing Marty ball.  Run the ball -- control the clock. Marty ball seems back this season after being dormant for well over a decade.  But to that that they need to upgrade the O line and add a monster Y TE IMO.  In the past I'd cringe at that as the lead approach.  But for now, it might be my favorite tactic to buy time looking for a franchise QB.

 

C. In the past an average QB would make me cringe.  But if we go with Marty ball style approach -- I'd be OK with an average QB if he's cheap.  I think an average Qb would make a big difference with this roster.  And no I don't think Heinicke is average.   Again, finding average worst case while buying time swinging for a franchise QB.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Daniel Jones has earned one-year Giants return and real chance for more

As a rule, even the most optimistic Monday Morning Quarterback would not spend the day after a 26-point defeat lobbying for a new deal for the losing man under center. Daniel Jones ended up on the wrong side of Jalen Hurts and the high-flying Eagles, and the Giants staggered out of MetLife Stadium in dire need of a reboot.

But even as his team unraveled around him, Jones managed to do Sunday what he’s done for most of what was advertised as his make-or-break year. He played turnover-free ball, threw for a touchdown, ran for a touchdown, and remained composed under relentless pressure while searching for playmakers who are not in the habit of making many plays.

Jones’s bosses are fond of saying he’s done everything they’ve asked of him, a compliment that falls more than a few yards short of a full endorsement. The Giants declined his $22.4 million fifth-year option in the spring because rookie general manager Joe Schoen and rookie head coach Brian Daboll weren’t sure what they had in the 2019 first-rounder from Duke and saw no need to make an unnecessary investment in the unknown.

In response, Jones has shown that he can stay healthy by making all 13 starts, that he can reduce his fumbles and interceptions, and that he can lead a team into playoff position without any accomplished receivers to throw to. Despite the Giants’ recent slide, Jones’s record (7-5-1), completion percentage (66.0), interception percentage (1.1), quarterback rating (91.6), and rushing totals (548 yards, 5 touchdowns) are all career bests.

 

He is ranked 14th in ESPN’s QBR, ahead of the likes of Jimmy Garoppolo, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. And though most teams and fan bases don’t want their starters ranked 14th in anything, Jones has developed into a pretty good NFL quarterback in Year 4, with a chance to be good … if the Giants hire some people to catch the ball.

So barring an improbable meltdown over these final four games, starting against Washington on Sunday night, Jones has earned the right to return next year through the franchise tag, the transition tag, whatever. If that means he gets at least slightly overpaid for one season at approximately $31.5 million (franchise tag, per Overthecap.com), or at approximately $28 million (transition), before team and player either break up or commit to a long-term relationship, so be it. There are worse players to overpay for one year than Daniel Jones, whose professionalism and work ethic are acknowledged on every level of the organization.

 

https://nypost.com/2022/12/12/daniel-jones-deserves-giants-return-real-chance-to-earn-more/

 

I hope they keep him.  Not because I think he's awful.   I think he's a slightly below average QB and better than what we got.  But if they are paying him 20 million plus I think he will saddle them.

 

[Rex Tomb]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jones has shown that he can stay healthy by making all 13 starts, that he can reduce his fumbles and interceptions, and that he can lead a team into playoff position without any accomplished receivers to throw to. Despite the Giants’ recent slide, Jones’s record (7-5-1), completion percentage (66.0), interception percentage (1.1), quarterback rating (91.6), and rushing totals (548 yards, 5 touchdowns) are all career bests.

 

Interesting that it took a make or break year for him to be able to do all of that.  Why didn't he demonstrate this prior to this season?  I also hope they hang on to him - he is so average that I feel confident he will never lead them anywhere and they will be back in the same position in a few years.  

Edited December 13, 2022 by Rex Tomb

[SkinsFTW]

Maybe they'll trade Jones straight up for Wince. 

 

Naa, nobody would do that.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Won’t a franchise tag for Jones be around $32M or so?

 

If anywhere near that #, I sure hope they stick with him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Won’t a franchise tag for Jones be around $32M or so?

 

If anywhere near that #, I sure hope they stick with him. 

 

Yeah it says that in the article.  I am guessing if they keep him they work out a multi year contract in the 20s. 

 

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah it says that in the article.  I am guessing if they keep him they work out a multi year contract in the 20s. 

 

 

 

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means. 

[tmandoug1]

9 hours ago, Conn said:

 

He is not a dual-threat because you need to make defenses fear and respect your legs to be that. 
 

A ligament tear in the knee is a freak thing that can happen at any time. Including non-contact just from stepping funny. So I’ll repeat that it had nothing to do with the choice to run or not run, and across the league the vast majority of ACL’s and the like are non-contact, rather than caused by bone-crunching impacts. Murray tearing his ACL just isn’t related to whether Heinicke should run more or not lol. 

He tore his ACL because of all the fraudulent money in his pocket. Now he can play MW all day and not worry about a thing.

[ThePackisback]

I know I’m not the best opposing team poster here and I drive you guys nuts but I wanted to say I hope Washington makes the playoffs and wins the NFC. 

[NickyJ]

10 hours ago, zCommander said:

Do you think Taylor should still run more after seeing Kyler Murray hurting his knee (looks like he might be done for the year) on the 3rd play of the game where he takes off running? I could see why Taylor doesn't like to run more to protect himself. I don't blame him for doing what is best for him. His stock does take a hit but staying healthy does look good for whatever the future holds for him though.

 

10 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

I know it was non-contact injury since I was watching the game and all lol

The point was you are running and take a cut or something to avoid a defender and your knee goes out. But yeah I guess it could happen on a bootleg too. I still think Taylor likes to be known as a pocket passer more than a runner aka dual threat even though he has done well running as well. 

Of all the things I thought I'd read this morning, I think the last one that I could have expected was zCommander promoting Carson Wentz's lack of mobility as a positive.

Edited December 13, 2022 by NickyJ

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means. 

 

It means PFF doesn't think Heinicke is good or for that matter average.  Granted that's not a major revelation

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

23 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

 

Of all the things I thought I'd read this morning, I think the last one that I could have expected was zCommander promoting Carson Wentz's lack of mobility as a positive.

 

Sanding like a status is a pocket is different then manipulating the pocket with your feet is different than running more. 

[NickyJ]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Sanding like a status is a pocket is different then manipulating the pocket with your feet is different than running more. 

You said it yourself, avoiding running even just to avoid non-contact injury is a good, healthy decision. Wentz is just taking TB12 levels of care with his health. I could see why Carson doesn't like to run more to protect himself. I don't blame him for doing what is best for him. His stock does take a hit but staying healthy does look good for whatever the future holds for him though.

Edited December 13, 2022 by NickyJ

[Zim489]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I haven't watched Mac Jones this year, but I watched him in Alabama plenty and the dude while doesn't have a gun, he threw deep plenty -- and it is a gun compared to Taylor but its an average arm.  And he was more than willing to throw deep.

 

Its definitely not a one sided argument that Mac is the problem.  He might be but plenty think Patricia is comically bad including apparently Mac himself.  I've read all the short screens, etc that they are throwing that a post here is suggesting is Mac's fault ironically is the heart of Mac's beef with the offense including throwing f-bombs Patrica's way during the game because of how conservative Patricia's plan is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldnt be shocked if they asked for a trade. Its one of the most strained relationships I have seen in a long time thats entirely warranted by the players side. 

[Warhead36]

Heinicke is not a run threat. He's not fast. He's quick and elusive, and his small size allows him to escape the grasp of pressure, but nobody is afraid of him ripping off huge runs. He's also never ran a RPO based offense. People need to stop with this notion that we should run some kind of 2012 RG3 offense with Heinicke. It wouldn't work at all.

[NickyJ]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Heinicke is not a run threat. He's not fast. He's quick and elusive, and his small size allows him to escape the grasp of pressure, but nobody is afraid of him ripping off huge runs. He's also never ran a RPO based offense. People need to stop with this notion that we should run some kind of 2012 RG3 offense with Heinicke. It wouldn't work at all.

Nobody is advocating for a 2012 RPO offense where Heinicke streaks down the field for a 60 yard TD. They're asking that he take the ball and run just a handful of times so that it isn't obvious that the only option on the read option is handing it off to the RB.

Edited December 13, 2022 by NickyJ

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  Finding a franchise QB is simply a matter of will.  My take is that's an unrealsitic pie in the sky thought and in some cases motivated by the dislike of Ron Rivera.   Ron somehow should be able to solve easily that biggest puzzle that has foiled this organization for over 30 years by coaching staff after coaching staff and FO after FO. 

 

I agree with the spirit of the point which is you find that QB its a game changer -- now you are consistently relevant and out of the dungeon finally.  I disagree that its easy to do.  And i 100% disagree that its damning that Ron hasn't solved this.  To me its like telling the class nerd change your love life by finding a swim suit model.  Yeah it sounds great in theory and bless the dude for trying but i am not blaming him for not pulling it off yet.  Keep swinging.

 

 

And for the love of god keep us away from Mac. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, NickyJ said:

Nobody is advocating for a 2012 RPO offense where Heinicke streaks down the field for a 60 yard TD. They're asking that when he take the ball and run just a handful of times so that it isn't obvious that the only option on the read option is handing it off to the RB.

You don't gain much with Heinicke running, but you run the risk of losing a lot because he's more likely to get hurt due to his small stature. And then we'd be completely boned.

 

The risk-reward just isn't in our favor.

[NickyJ]

23 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You don't gain much with Heinicke running, but you run the risk of losing a lot because he's more likely to get hurt due to his small stature. And then we'd be completely boned.

 

The risk-reward just isn't in our favor.

When the entire offense is funneled through the runningbacks because the QB can't carry a game with his arm, you need to take every advantage you can get. Making the defense not immediately crash on the runningback is a massive gain. Curtis Samuel is under 200 lb., it's an injury risk every time we hand him the ball. The team does it because they need to. They need Heinicke to take even just the smallest amount of pressure off the RBs.

Edited December 13, 2022 by NickyJ