The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Game 1 was great.  But I don't think its all about time in the system.  We've seen some of the things that his critics have hit him for.  Bad decision making.  Pressing in big games (Eagles one) and playing poorly.  Sketchy accuracy.  Bad pocket presence.

 

But I agree he can bounce back.  I leaned on optimism before.  But just leaned.  Now I lean on pessimism.  But again just leaning. 

I'm not saying all, but I'm saying that we're not seeing his ceiling yet. What we've done in week 1 has been planned for now. And Scott doesn't have a large list of plays to go to that he knows Wentz can do in his system. I think that's what takes time. Even Wentz getting enough knowledge is the system to get better at things like hot routes and blitz pickups is asking a lot. But I'll say that I had patience with Brunell, McNabb, Smith before all this. Heck, compare Cousins in 2014 to 2015. It takes time. Rarely do we see QBs come in with a new system, especially one that's so different from what he's been doing, and light it up from the start. We see it around the league. 

 

I wish we were playing Williams more because it would make our running game more of a threat. I like Robinson but I don't want to put too much on him too soon. A split backfield could really help us and Wentz. That said. Wentz needs reps throwing too. So this is necessary if we want him to develop and to see if he's our guy for the next 3 years

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm not saying all, but I'm saying that we're not seeing his ceiling yet. What we've done in week 1 has been planned for now. And Scott doesn't have a large list of plays to go to that he knows Wentz can do in his system. I think that's what takes time. Even Wentz getting enough knowledge is the system to get better at things like hot routes and blitz pickups is asking a lot. But I'll say that I had patience with Brunell, McNabb, Smith before all this. Heck, compare Cousins in 2014 to 2015. It takes time. Rarely do we see QBs come in with a new system, especially one that's so different from what he's been doing, and light it up from the start. We see it around the league. 

 

I wish we were playing Williams more because it would make our running game more of a threat. I like Robinson but I don't want to put too much on him too soon. A split backfield could really help us and Wentz. That said. Wentz needs reps throwing too. So this is necessary if we want him to develop and to see if he's our guy for the next 3 years

 

Cousins was a young player with little playing time on his resume.

 

I know you were impressed with Brunell's run here -- to me it was "meh". 

 

I have patience too but I am not leaning optimistic.  Today's a big game as to my take -- he should play well against this defense.  If he doesn't it adds to the red flag. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

40 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm not saying all, but I'm saying that we're not seeing his ceiling yet. What we've done in week 1 has been planned for now. And Scott doesn't have a large list of plays to go to that he knows Wentz can do in his system. I think that's what takes time. Even Wentz getting enough knowledge is the system to get better at things like hot routes and blitz pickups is asking a lot. But I'll say that I had patience with Brunell, McNabb, Smith before all this. Heck, compare Cousins in 2014 to 2015. It takes time. Rarely do we see QBs come in with a new system, especially one that's so different from what he's been doing, and light it up from the start. We see it around the league. 

 

I wish we were playing Williams more because it would make our running game more of a threat. I like Robinson but I don't want to put too much on him too soon. A split backfield could really help us and Wentz. That said. Wentz needs reps throwing too. So this is necessary if we want him to develop and to see if he's our guy for the next 3 years

Cousins was a different story altogether.  He had not already been in 2 other NFL systems. 
 

I was hopeful for wentz.  But my favorite part of the trade was they can get out after one year and sell out for who they want in the draft.  

 

i said somewhere else wentz needs to have a good game or after the bears I would use the mini bye to get Howell ready.  See what he has.  
 

wentz is not the only one playing poorly but the knocks in him coming in are on full display. 

[Vandelay_Industries]

10 hours ago, Jds0912 said:

TH struggled when his best receiving options (other than Terry) were Cam Sims and John Bates. I’d like to see what he would do with Samuel and Dotson. Not saying he’s our future but he’s a better option than Wentz right now. 

 

But then again, TH had a better interior OL than Wentz has.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Vandelay_Industries

[Redskins 2021]

 Right now the Wentz trade does not look to bad to me. We will lose a third round pick but we have a better idea where this team stands. If you look at all the Qb that changed teams this season other then Marrota and G Smith all of they have been bad or worse then Wentz.

 

Wentz is at fault for some of the problems but not all of them. The line has been bad. The guys we did not resign may have been alot better then we thought.

 

Would you rather have Wilson the way he is playing now? Denver gave up 2 first and 2 seconds to seattle. This trade could and up looking like the H. Walker trade.

 

These Qb all changed teams all changed team. Wentz  had played as well or better

 

Wilson 

Mayfield 

Ryan

Trubisky 

 

 

I am not ready to give up on Wentz yet but if things are still bad by week 10 put Howell in and see what he has. The trade was going to be a hit or miss. I still think it was the right move this off season.

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Vandelay_Industries]

5 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

If you look at all the Qb that changed teams this season other then Marrota and G Smith all of they have been bad or worse then Wentz. Would you rather have Wilson the way he I'd playing now?

 

 

Geno Smith is in Seattle since 2019. And not sure if Mariota has been better actually. He has 779 passing yards, 3 TDs and 4 INTs.

[Redskins 2021]

2 minutes ago, Vandelay_Industries said:

 

Geno Smith is in Seattle since 2019. And not sure if Mariota has been better actually. He has 779 passing yards, 3 TDs and 4 INTs.

 Where else could we have gone for a Qb ? I don't think they really could have run it back with Henike? I guess we could have taken Pickett? I get the impression they did not like him.

 

I still think this was the best move at the time to make?

[Jds0912]

9 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 Where else could we have gone for a Qb ? I don't think they really could have run it back with Henike? I guess we could have taken Pickett? I get the impression they did not like him.

 

I still think this was the best move at the time to make?

Rolling with TH and drafting Pickett would’ve been the right move. I was screaming at the tv when we passed on him twice. I didn’t see Trubisky, Mariota, Wentz, or whoever as a clear upgrade when you weigh skill vs salary. I think Pickett will be a top 10 qb in this league for years to come but if not then we could’ve moved on quickly since rookie contracts aren’t that expensive. Plus we could’ve kept some players we had to let go bc of Wentz. 

 

[goskins10]

16 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 Where else could we have gone for a Qb ? I don't think they really could have run it back with Henike? I guess we could have taken Pickett? I get the impression they did not like him.

 

I still think this was the best move at the time to make?

I think their point was even those QBs are not really playing better. The team pretty much as good as they can. I think they were agreeing with you over all.  
 

And he either puts it together in the next few games or you get Howell ready and cut bait with Carson.  

[Redwards]

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 Where else could we have gone for a Qb ? I don't think they really could have run it back with Henike? I guess we could have taken Pickett? I get the impression they did not like him.

 

I still think this was the best move at the time to make?

Why couldn't they hare run it back with Taylor?

 

See...this is THE issue right here amongst fans and the team itself:  there's this belief that they'd just implode and cease to exist if they had run it back with Taylor.  Wrong.  If there isn't a QB that they really like in the draft (and they're top choice in FA - Wilson - simply won't give us the time of day) it doesn't mean you have to go and get a "meh" QB like Wentz.  It's just wasting time.  You're NEVER winning a SB with a guy like Carson.  Nothing personal towards him, but he's not even close to being good enough, and Ron and his vaunted staff for sure aren't good enough to resurrect him and put him in 2017 pre-injury form.  He'll get you around .500 and maybe, just maybe a wildcard game.  That's it.  So, what's the freaking point???

 

All they did was ensure they wouldn't be in prime position this coming draft to get a true, young real potential answer at the position.  All because, for some unknown weird reason, they just HAD to win a little bit more this season. 

 

Well...this season is already over.  The other teams in the division are too far ahead and too good compared to last year for Ron to hope one of his miracle runs will work.  This team isn't constructed properly and doesn't have enough depth.

 

Running it back with TH was a classic set-up for us to take one-step back (or stay neutral this year) in order to give ourselves a legit opportunity to take two steps forward.  But, alas, that is something this organization, which can't see past the tip of its nose, will never, ever do under Dan.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Conn]

Rivera loses this team completely if he tries to sell “run it back with Heinicke”. Silly to even contemplate regardless of how you feel about the direction he ended up going. McLaurin may not have even re-signed here, and then there’s another fractured relationship with a franchise player. 

 

So much bull**** being spewed in this thread the last couple days (and long before that), by the way. Only have time to scratch the surface of the examples that made my eye slightly twitch. 

 

1. Roane posting multiple times about how Rivera should have stuck with his “build the roster and then insert the QB” plan with such self-certainty when Rivera very publicly tried to trade for Stafford last year and every QB under the sun this year. So his first (destroyed by COVID) offseason was the only one where he didn’t try to trade for a major player at QB, and that’s because he had to give Haskins a shot. So…bull**** argument and post, with hundreds of words built around this non-existent fantasy and the unearned angst to match. 
 

2. Z doing this over the top reasonable/placid posting style all of a sudden as if he’s this bastion of unbiased QB thinking and others just won’t listen. My dude, you’ve been here a long time, and you’re full of ****. What you engaged in throughout the offseason thread can really only be described as disingenuous at best, outright gaslighting at worst, and it is not a hindsight thing—I and others had a great time calling it out live, while it was happening. I’m glad we’re past the stage where you’re outright PRETENDING to like Wentz and enthusiastically predicting 12-13 wins to set yourself up for rage later. Really subtle. But anyone reading still needs to read between the lines to see what you’re really saying, or alternatively piss you off a little bit so that you get sloppy and let what you really think spill onto the board. But we’ve all seen it, we all know the agenda. Posting on a message board is already a kind of outdated hobby that we all have (and if we’re being honest, more or a coping mechanism that we all can’t stop engaging in). Doing it while not even being truthful about your opinions…that seems sad. Just let your freak flag fly man. You’ll get **** for it but the conversations will be honest at least. 
 

3. And then the brigade of dip****s who don’t post at all, but get brave when they finally see some precious pro-Heinicke chatter and crawl out of the woodwork to engage in some weirdly misplaced and comical back-patting. 
 

I don’t mean to be an asshole here. I’m sure in real life there’s a good chance you folks are swell. We all come here to blow off steam and probably to comfort each other as we engage in unhealthy self-destructive fan behavior because we can’t kick this team out of our lives. But I only know you all through your posts, and while we all say stupid **** at times, some of you are engaging in outright clownery in here over a long period of time and it needs to be acknowledged. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Conn

[IrepDC]

Tenneessee's Defense runs a similar basic scheme as us. They're giving up more yards per game than us. This is a game we need to see Turner and Wentz get into more of a rhythm. There has to be visible growth in our Offense this game.

[Conn]

9 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Tenneessee's Defense runs a similar basic scheme as us. They're giving up more yards per game than us. This is a game we need to see Turner and Wentz get into more of a rhythm. There has to be visible growth in our Offense this game.

Agreed, this has to be a bounce-back game of sorts, win or lose, or it spells real trouble

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

Can any of you seriously imagine if we gave up that second to Indi for Wentz, surely to god even this dumbass backwards ****ed up organisation can’t even manage to have their pants pulled down like that

 

Its gonna happen isn’t it …

[Warhead36]

Wentz isn't great, but other then the pick at the end he was mostly fine today. The biggest issues on this team are offensive play calling/scheme and the OL. 

[mistertim]

We got the full Wentz treatment today. Played quite well for the most part, drove us down the field at the end, then finished with an idiotic pick into double coverage for the loss.

 

🤦‍♂️

[NoCalMike]

Wentz was fine today. Obviously the INT at the end was terrible, but I also question the play calling and who the coaches even had in there.

 

We got Bates running an I don't even know route.....where is Cole Turner? We have been hearing the entire offseason what a weapon he can be and he is finally playing and is a ghost.  Isn't the goal line where your TE's can especially use their physicality to create space?  

 

Where is Cam Simms to bring some size and catch radius to the table?

 

Why are passes being thrown to running backs that are barely even crossing over the goal line to begin with?

 

Wentz wasn't good there, but Scott Turner sure as played his role in making it worse.

[JSSkinz]

I think he's awful, he's erratic in the pocket, almost spastic in his movements and his situational awareness is terrible.  He's a big arm with nothing in-between, he made 2 big plays for TD's but there's no consistency and you have to hope for the deep ball to keep you in it, I don't see it being sustainable.

[Vandelay_Industries]

I wish we had Dotson and/or Thomas today for the 2 & goal.

[Warhead36]

29 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think he's awful, he's erratic in the pocket, almost spastic in his movements and his situational awareness is terrible.  He's a big arm with nothing in-between, he made 2 big plays for TD's but there's no consistency and you have to hope for the deep ball to keep you in it, I don't see it being sustainable.

He's basically a slightly more athletic Jeff George who isn't a complete dbag personality 

[zCommander]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

2. Z doing this over the top reasonable/placid posting style all of a sudden as if he’s this bastion of unbiased QB thinking and others just won’t listen. My dude, you’ve been here a long time, and you’re full of ****. What you engaged in throughout the offseason thread can really only be described as disingenuous at best, outright gaslighting at worst, and it is not a hindsight thing—I and others had a great time calling it out live, while it was happening. I’m glad we’re past the stage where you’re outright PRETENDING to like Wentz and enthusiastically predicting 12-13 wins to set yourself up for rage later. Really subtle. But anyone reading still needs to read between the lines to see what you’re really saying, or alternatively piss you off a little bit so that you get sloppy and let what you really think spill onto the board. But we’ve all seen it, we all know the agenda. Posting on a message board is already a kind of outdated hobby that we all have (and if we’re being honest, more or a coping mechanism that we all can’t stop engaging in). Doing it while not even being truthful about your opinions…that seems sad. Just let your freak flag fly man. You’ll get **** for it but the conversations will be honest at least. times, some of you are engaging in outright clownery in here over a long period of time and it needs to be acknowledged. 

 

You have your way of seeing things and I have mine. To you it might be over the top but to me it seemed a realistic view on how I see things. Are we going to agree on that. Probably not. I never said I liked Wentz. I said I was on the fence and would wait and see how that fairs out for us. I was not big on Wentz like some of you guys were - strong arm and all. If that doesn't translate to wins then it is useless. Not having an effect OL is also useless. You can call me out as much as you like I have no problem with that. Trust me it won't hurt my feelings...lol

 

I joined this board to learn more about football as I used to watch football games for entertainment and would have the TV on all day - which I still do - 1pm to 11:30 pm. Who does that? Me. I like watching football. It is my day off and I want to watch me some football no matter who is playing. This is how I also learn about other teams and how their QBs/team is playing. I didn't become a Redskins fan until 24 years ago when my son was born. I knew I had to pick a team to take my son to a game when he is old enough to understand. He probably hates me for making him a Redskins fan though...lol

 

Please don't blow the 12-14 out of proportions since you don't actually remember why I said that. My reasoning was based on how many games we won last year and how many games we should win this year. Maybe 12-14 maybe being too optimistic or as some have pointed out not realistic. To me it was a fair amount of wins. But please don't burn a guy for being too optimistic or having a different view and instead calling him stupid instead.

 

You don't need to read between the lines. Just ask me "hey z, what the hell do you even mean? Are you on drugs or something." But you don't need to belittle me though to do so. 

 

I don't get pissed off that easily but do reserve the right to fight for my stance though....lol

 

The only agenda I have is for this team to have a ****ing wining season while I am still alive! I will be 52 this year. 

 

I have been pretty honest about my opinions. Maybe not popular for some but I am not going sit there and just pretend everything is rosy. Okay I lie. I do pretend we are going to win every week in the insomniac thread. I know sometimes it is false hope. In life you have to have some hope and smile so you don't go over the edge over a football team. Life is too short to for that. 

 

I don't mind you guys beating me up for my stance or my way of thinking as long as we don't all go overboard. I don't mind the healthy bickering back and forth. I would appreciate the common courtesy for allowing me to do the same to you as well. Beating you up that is. 

 

What I don't like is when people start calling you an idiot because they feel they know more about football than you and has to put you down for it. You really don't know how much the other person knows. Everyone has strengths and weakness. I will clear up what mine are: I don't get too deep into the x's and the o's. I have learned a lot though ever since joining ES. Since ES had some super smart people that the other boards were lacking. I don't watch college football. Busy on Saturdays. I do read up on draft prospect and will watch some highlights if I have the time. Just like in the IT world you have to stay up with current tech/events so you don't fall too far behind. 

 

If there is anything else you would like to know about me please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Wentz was fine today. Obviously the INT at the end was terrible, but I also question the play calling and who the coaches even had in there.

 

Wow....I disagree. You try calling plays with Wentz at QB. He is shot. 

[Jds0912]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

You have your way of seeing things and I have mine. To you it might be over the top but to me it seemed a realistic view on how I see things. Are we going to agree on that. Probably not. I never said I liked Wentz. I said I was on the fence and would wait and see how that fairs out for us. I was not big on Wentz like some of you guys were - strong arm and all. If that doesn't translate to wins then it is useless. Not having an effect OL is also useless. You can call me out as much as you like I have no problem with that. Trust me it won't hurt my feelings...lol

 

I joined this board to learn more about football as I used to watch football games for entertainment and would have the TV on all day - which I still do - 1pm to 11:30 pm. Who does that? Me. I like watching football. It is my day off and I want to watch me some football no matter who is playing. This is how I also learn about other teams and how their QBs/team is playing. I didn't become a Redskins fan until 24 years ago when my son was born. I knew I had to pick a team to take my son to a game when he is old enough to understand. He probably hates me for making him a Redskins fan though...lol

 

Please don't blow the 12-14 out of proportions since you don't actually remember why I said that. My reasoning was based on how many games we won last year and how many games we should win this year. Maybe 12-14 maybe being too optimistic or as some have pointed out not realistic. To me it was a fair amount of wins. But please don't burn a guy for being too optimistic or having a different view and instead calling him stupid instead.

 

You don't need to read between the lines. Just ask me "hey z, what the hell do you even mean? Are you on drugs or something." But you don't need to belittle me though to do so. 

 

I don't get pissed off that easily but do reserve the right to fight for my stance though....lol

 

The only agenda I have is for this team to have a ****ing wining season while I am still alive! I will be 52 this year. 

 

I have been pretty honest about my opinions. Maybe not popular for some but I am not going sit there and just pretend everything is rosy. Okay I lie. I do pretend we are going to win every week in the insomniac thread. I know sometimes it is false hope. In life you have to have some hope and smile so you don't go over the edge over a football team. Life is too short to for that. 

 

I don't mind you guys beating me up for my stance or my way of thinking as long as we don't all go overboard. I don't mind the healthy bickering back and forth. I would appreciate the common courtesy for allowing me to do the same to you as well. Beating you up that is. 

 

What I don't like is when people start calling you an idiot because they feel they know more about football than you and has to put you down for it. You really don't know how much the other person knows. Everyone has strengths and weakness. I will clear up what mine are: I don't get too deep into the x's and the o's. I have learned a lot though ever since joining ES. Since ES had some super smart people that the other boards were lacking. I don't watch college football. Busy on Saturdays. I do read up on draft prospect and will watch some highlights if I have the time. Just like in the IT world you have to stay up with current tech/events so you don't fall too far behind. 

 

If there is anything else you would like to know about me please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Dude you don’t have to explain yourself to any of these clueless f**** lol. You along with several of us were right by saying we should’ve stuck with TH this year and built the rest of the roster. It’s obvious. They’re so caught up in group think that they cant/refuse to admit they were wrong, then they try to belittle others who disagree with their cult. You were right and they were wrong. The end. 

[kingdaddy]

56 minutes ago, Jds0912 said:

Dude you don’t have to explain yourself to any of these clueless f**** lol. You along with several of us were right by saying we should’ve stuck with TH this year and built the rest of the roster. It’s obvious. They’re so caught up in group think that they cant/refuse to admit they were wrong, then they try to belittle others who disagree with their cult. You were right and they were wrong. The end. 

Thanks for speaking out.....the Wentz supporters would rather go down being wrong than admit that the TH folks may have been right. All we are saying is that TH isn't bad and that we can win with him....he's not a franchise QB but he'll win you games. Wentz is flat out brutal....intangibles matter with QB's and TH has the edge over CW there. I think Howell may too. Wentz is done in the NFL....Ron better see that real soon, the experiment is over.