The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

If your the head coach, OC and GM how do you grade TH based on his play and how the team did this season? When the defense finally stepped up and the running game started clicking he was very good and we won some games against tough teams with QB's who have better resume's than he does. When COVID hit and injuries added up he struggled but still competed. He basically had one star WR, lost his 3rd down back and had vanilla for TE's. 

I'm grading him based on his leadership, how he did when he had a mostly full deck to work with and whether I think he can get better and help us win. One play that really stands out as hurting was the overturned TD in Green Bay where he slid too early. If he scores there who knows what happens but we played Green Bay tough in their stadium. Next season we won't play a murderers row of star QB's....bottom line, TH beat Brady, Carr and Russ Wilson when the team was clicking. That tells me we can win with him. I'm also LOVING his salary and looking at adding big time all around him and seeing what happens. 

So on the Green Bay play.  He slid to early when he didn’t need to slide at all.  He got a second chance because it was 4th down.  Why didn’t he punch the ball in on 4th down?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

Except you can't guarantee an upgrade.  You probably wanted to bring Matthew Stafford here last year.  His sorry butt has thrown four Pick 6 INTs this season.  Aaron Rodgers has thrown three Pick 6 INTs during his ENTIRE CAREER.

 

I would take Heinicke over Stafford 8 days per week.

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

Scott Turner agrees with me.  So does Tony Dungy.  kingdaddy also agrees with me.

[Theismann to HOF]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I doubt Tom Brady would be all that upset about playing behind the 5th ranked pass pro OL in the league. Even when our OL had injuries they were still highly rated. 

 

Maybe you should re-watch both games.  Heinicke was under pressure on close to 50% of his drop backs.  He took an absolute beating.  No QB was going to succeed playing behind the WFT offensive line in those two Dallas games. 

 

You obviously want to dogpile on Heinicke, but refuse to place most of the blame for this sorry season where it belongs -- the WFT defense.

[London Kev]

OK, I think that the guy's either a troll, deluded, high, or one of the mods has set up a fake account just to mess with everyone.

 

Or maybe it's all four? 😀

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

So on the Green Bay play.  He slid to early when he didn’t need to slide at all.  He got a second chance because it was 4th down.  Why didn’t he punch the ball in on 4th down?

if you recall it's arguable that he did punch it in. Doesn't matter now though does it. He made his share of mistakes as ALL young QB's do but I'm willing to bet he learns from them and is a better QB next season. 

 

[Theismann to HOF]

7 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

So on the Green Bay play.  He slid to early when he didn’t need to slide at all.  He got a second chance because it was 4th down.  Why didn’t he punch the ball in on 4th down?

 

Because he didn't.  The other team gets paid to play, too.  That's football.  I think it's very stupid that Heinicke was not awarded the TD on 3rd down, especially when no one even touched him.  Obviously, the WFT deserved more than 10 points in that Packers game.

 

The fact is that Heinicke played quite well against the Packers.  That's why the WFT offense only punted like one time the entire game, if that.  Bad luck just happens sometimes.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Theismann to HOF

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

Because he didn't.  The other team gets paid to play, too.  That's football.  I think it's very stupid that Heinicke was not awarded the TD on 3rd down, especially when no one even touched him.  Obviously, the WFT deserved more than 10 points in that Packers game.

 

The fact is that Heinicke played quite well against the Packers.  That's why they only punted like one time the entire game, if that.  Bad luck just happens sometimes.

Jimmy G doesn’t slide on that play.  Matt Stafford doesn’t slide on that play.

[Comrade Wolf]

5 minutes ago, London Kev said:

OK, I think that the guy's either a troll, deluded, high, or one of the mods has set up a fake account just to mess with everyone.

 

Or maybe it's all four? 😀

Well LK , I’m high right now, actually very high and that dude still doesn’t make any logical sense with is blind TH homerisim 

[Theismann to HOF]

10 minutes ago, London Kev said:

OK, I think that the guy's either a troll, deluded, high, or one of the mods has set up a fake account just to mess with everyone.

 

Or maybe it's all four? 😀

 

I'm making arguments defending Heinicke, who played very well overall this season. 

 

You're doing very little to counter my arguments.  Perhaps you're the troll?

3 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Jimmy G doesn’t slide on that play.  Matt Stafford doesn’t slide on that play.

 

Yeah, neither one of them would have 5 game-winning drives playing for the WFT, either.  Each of them would have blown at least 2 of those very close games.  Guaranteed.

 

Just like Jimmy G. almost blew it with that disastrous INT in the 4th quarter last night against Dallas.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Theismann to HOF

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For one Scott Turner doesn't run the FO, Rivera does.   2nd heck yeah Heinicke is going to be here.  Who is arguing otherwise?  His stuff here though is pure coach speak and if anything damning if the idea is Heinicke is seen as the #1 Qb here.  When you got the guy in house, you got heck yeah Taylor is our guy.  You don't say we're gonna try to get as good as we can at every position but especially at that position.   You think that's what the Cardinals are saying this type of stuff in the off season -- talking about if we bring a guy in and we are going to try to get good there, etc.   

 

That's simply a nice way of saying we are bringing a guy in and we are trying to get better.  I don't know what some are expecting the coaches to say about a player in house.  Something like that dude sucks?  We will go through high and highwater to replace him?  I don't think even a blunt tactless dude like Mike Ditka talked like that about his players. 

 

But look its clear some want to believe that Rivera thinks Heinicke is the guy or at least is torn about it.   It's cool.   It's a long off season and what the heck, we can all believe in whatever to get us through it.  If some people feel good believing it -- that's cool.  On a scale of 0-100.  The level I believe Rivera thinks Heinicke is the guy is dead zero.  Nada.  Zip.   

 

if Rivera opens up his press conference before FA and goes gotcha or whatever he does to indicate he loved Heinicke all along as the dude and he sees him as his next Cam or whichever way he sells him as the franchise QB.  i promise to be the first to come back to the thread and own up as to how wrong I was. 

 

 

 

SiP I have mad respect for you as you know your **** and do a lot of research and listen to like everyone on the radio and podcasts and what not. I just didn't like the word crystal clear. To me there is no such thing. If TH starts next year. Great. If he doesn't. Great. We all want the best player at that position no doubt. But again not written in stone yet until it actually happens is all I am saying. 

 

I am not dying on any hill. Let the better man win.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

I'm making arguments defending Heinicke, who played very well overall this season. 

 

You're doing very little to counter my arguments.  Perhaps you're the troll?

[Theismann to HOF]

22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

If your the head coach, OC and GM how do you grade TH based on his play and how the team did this season? When the defense finally stepped up and the running game started clicking he was very good and we won some games against tough teams with QB's who have better resume's than he does. When COVID hit and injuries added up he struggled but still competed. He basically had one star WR, lost his 3rd down back and had vanilla for TE's. 

I'm grading him based on his leadership, how he did when he had a mostly full deck to work with and whether I think he can get better and help us win. One play that really stands out as hurting was the overturned TD in Green Bay where he slid too early. If he scores there who knows what happens but we played Green Bay tough in their stadium. Next season we won't play a murderers row of star QB's....bottom line, TH beat Brady, Carr and Russ Wilson when the team was clicking. That tells me we can win with him. I'm also LOVING his salary and looking at adding big time all around him and seeing what happens. 

 

Yes, this team can absolutely win with Heinicke at QB. 

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

I'm making arguments defending Heinicke, who played very well overall this season. 

 

You're doing very little to counter my arguments.  Perhaps you're the troll?

 

Yeah, neither one of them would have 5 game-winning drives playing for the WFT, either.  Each of them would have blown at least 2 of those very close games.  Guaranteed.

 

Just like Jimmy G. almost blew it with that disastrous INT in the 4th quarter last night against Dallas.

Heinicke couldn’t put up more points in his final 6 starts than Garrett Gilbert did in his lone start.

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

Except you can't guarantee an upgrade.  You probably wanted to bring Matthew Stafford here last year.  His sorry butt has thrown four Pick 6 INTs this season.  Aaron Rodgers has thrown three Pick 6 INTs during his ENTIRE CAREER.

 

I would take Heinicke over Stafford 8 days per week.

 

Well that makes...one of you. Like...in the entire NFL I doubt you'd find a single coach or FO who would take Taylor Heinicke over Stafford. 

 

7 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

Maybe you should re-watch both games.  Heinicke was under pressure on close to 50% of his drop backs.  He took an absolute beating.  No QB was going to succeed playing behind the WFT offensive line in those two Dallas games. 

 

You obviously want to dogpile on Heinicke, but refuse to place most of the blame for this sorry season where it belongs -- the WFT defense.

 

I have rewatched both of the Dallas games. Yes they dialed in plenty of pressures and blitzes, but on other plays Heinicke had plenty of time as well. Again, WFT OL ended up being the 5 ranked line when it came to pass protection. Our OL was quite good overall.

 

As far as the defense...yes they definitely had some bad games, but they also had some good ones. There were multiple games where our defense held the opposing offense below the average they'd been scoring up until that game. However, our offense in those same games many times scored less than the opposing defense had been allowing until that game (sometimes significantly less).

 

Our offense was stagnant for most of the season and it's ridiculous that some people seem addicted to absolving Heinicke of any blame. It's always someone else's fault, despite the fact that TH had one of the worst QBRs in the NFL this past season at 40.3. There were only a handful of guys who had worse QBRs. 4 of them were rookies (actual rookies, not whatever type of rookie some on here seem to believe Heinicke is) so they basically get a pass, one is the reanimated corpse of Big Ben, one is Baker Mayfield who was also injured, and the last one was Sam Darnold who doesn't even belong on an NFL field.

[Theismann to HOF]

38 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Yeah, I guess not punting in the Green Bay game is a feather in Heinicke’s cap as he only had two turnovers and went 0-3 on fourth downs (none longer than three yards to gain) and put up 10 points.

 

Garrett Gilbert walked into the organization and put up more points in the COVID game than Heinicke put up in his last 6 starts.

 

I recall one Heinicke turnover in that game -- an INT at the end of the 4th quarter with the score 24 - 7 Green Bay.  It's called "garbage time" for a reason.

 

More stupid dogpiling.

[Ball Security]

2 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

I recall one Heinicke turnover in that game -- an INT at the end of the 4th quarter with the score 24 - 7 Green Bay.  It's called "garbage time" for a reason.

 

More stupid dogpiling.

You recall incorrectly. First possession of the second half.  14-7 GB.  2nd a 4, sack/fumble loss.  Sets up GB TD.  21-7.  
 

Fourth Quarter 6 and half minutes left down 24-7, throws int.

[TheBlueIndian]

In a scenario where we are starting TH next season, is there any hope that he can build up some arm strength in the off season ? Are there examples of QBs doing this  ? 

 

I really don't know if thats physically possible to do in an off season, and if he could have done it, he probably would have already. The guy seems like a grinder maybe there is some hope if we have to call on him again.

[CjSuAvE22]

18 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

I'm making arguments defending Heinicke, who played very well overall this season. 

 

You're doing very little to counter my arguments.  Perhaps you're the troll?

 

 

He played so well that he was top 25 in the league in QBR....in fact he was 23 what a stud SIGN THE MAN before he leaves us for another team. 

[Theismann to HOF]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well that makes...one of you. Like...in the entire NFL I doubt you'd find a single coach or FO who would take Taylor Heinicke over Stafford. 

 

 

I have rewatched both of the Dallas games. Yes they dialed in plenty of pressures and blitzes, but on other plays Heinicke had plenty of time as well. Again, WFT OL ended up being the 5 ranked line when it came to pass protection. Our OL was quite good overall.

 

As far as the defense...yes they definitely had some bad games, but they also had some good ones. There were multiple games where our defense held the opposing offense below the average they'd been scoring up until that game. However, our offense in those same games many times scored less than the opposing defense had been allowing until that game (sometimes significantly less).

 

Our offense was stagnant for most of the season and it's ridiculous that some people seem addicted to absolving Heinicke of any blame. It's always someone else's fault, despite the fact that TH had one of the worst QBRs in the NFL this past season at 40.3. There were only a handful of guys who had worse QBRs. 4 of them were rookies (actual rookies, not whatever type of rookie some on here seem to believe Heinicke is) so they basically get a pass, one is the reanimated corpse of Big Ben, one is Baker Mayfield who was also injured, and the last one was Sam Darnold who doesn't even belong on an NFL field.

 

I promise you there are teams out there that would take Heinicke over the highly overrated Stafford.  Especially seeing how poorly he has played on a good team this season.  I believe Stafford currently leads the league in INTs.

 

Yes, the WFT offensive line is quite good when healthy.  But they were far from healthy in both games against Dallas.

 

No, the defense was bad in MOST games this season.  They flat-out sucked during the first 7 games, giving up 60% of 3rd down conversions.  They simply couldn't get off the field. 

 

The defense would have given up a lot more points if the WFT offense had not done such a good job of ball control during that 6 game stretch against the Packers, Broncos, Bucs, Panthers, Raiders, and Seahawks.  The injuries caught up to the WFT offense and they weren't the same after that 6 game stretch. 

 

And when the WFT offense was not playing good ball control at the end of the season, the defense simply couldn't stop Dallas and Philly.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

You recall incorrectly. First possession of the second half.  14-7 GB.  2nd a 4, sack/fumble loss.  Sets up GB TD.  21-7.  
 

Fourth Quarter 6 and half minutes left down 24-7, throws int.

 

Yeah...getting sacked and fumbling.  That must be Heinicke's fault, like everything else.

 

Down 3 scores with 6 minutes left....like I said -- garbage time.

[Rufus T Firefly]

9 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

I recall one Heinicke turnover in that game -- an INT at the end of the 4th quarter with the score 24 - 7 Green Bay.  It's called "garbage time" for a reason.

 

More stupid dogpiling.

Pointing out the offense was being shut down, leading to a lopsided game, as a way to defend the play of the QB.....

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Whenever trolls show up they have a good thing going and then take it too far and out themselves.

 

ie: Teams would take Heineke over Matt Stafford.  
 

Serious human beings don’t make statements like that.
 

 

[Theismann to HOF]

18 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Heinicke couldn’t put up more points in his final 6 starts than Garrett Gilbert did in his lone start.

 

Yet he beat Tom Brady and led 5 game-winning drives.

 

Something Gilbert would not be able to do.

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Whenever trolls show up they have a good thing going and then take it too far and out themselves.

 

ie: Teams would take Heineke over Matt Stafford.  
 

Serious human beings don’t make statements like that.
 

 

 

Stafford is not better than Heinicke.  Not when he is making those types of game-changing mistakes.  

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

I promise you there are teams out there that would take Heinicke over the highly overrated Stafford.  Especially seeing how poorly he has played on a good team this season.  I believe Stafford currently leads the league in INTs.

 

Yes, the WFT offensive line is quite good when healthy.  But they were far from healthy in both games against Dallas.

 

No, the defense was bad in MOST games this season.  They flat-out sucked during the first 7 games, giving up 60% of 3rd down conversions.  They simply couldn't get off the field. 

 

The defense would have given up a lot more points if the WFT offense had not done such a good job of ball control during that 6 game stretch against the Packers, Broncos, Bucs, Panthers, Raiders, and Seahawks.  The injuries caught up to the WFT offense and they weren't the same after that 6 game stretch. 

 

And when the WFT offense was not playing good ball control at the end of the season, the defense simply couldn't stop Dallas and Philly.

 

Dude, you're basically just making **** up at this point. Like...all over the place. You guarantee that other QBs wouldn't have had a chance to win the games Heinicke did. You promise that there are teams out there who would take Heinicke over Stafford.

 

If that's the case, why haven't we been offered a 1st round pick for TH? If he's better than Stafford, teams should be jumping over each other to try and get to the head of the betting line for Heinicke. Where are they? 

 

Oh and Stafford ended the season with a 63.7 QBR, which puts him in the top 5 and a full 23 points above Heinicke. But I'm sure TH's low QBR is because of the OL. Or the defense. Or the coaches. Or the receivers. Basically it's everyone's fault but Heinicke.

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, Theismann to HOF said:

 

Yet he beat Tom Brady and led 5 game-winning drives.

 

Something Gilbert would not be able to do.

And lost to Jamies Winston so what? Id rather have Taysom Hill he shut OUT tom brady.