The Dems Fighting to get stuff done and fighting to succeed Joe

[Dan T.]

Merrick Garland is too polite when he testifies before Senate committees. Show some spine, man.

[Llevron]

28 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Merrick Garland is too polite when he testifies before Senate committees. Show some spine, man.

 

Hes not that guy. Thats why they like him I think 

[NoCalMike]

Sinema appears to be one of those Democrats who talk the talk, but once in the position to actually follow through with legislation, she changes her tune quickly.

 

Seriously though, at this point Sinema & Manchin aren't even so much "negotiating" as they are running back and forth between Biden and their donors to demand what needs to be removed from the bill.  If these were true negotiations then for everything they are asking to be removed, they should offer up something in it's place or maybe keep the original item but give it less funding, but all they are doing is going through the bill and wanting things removed.

 

Times like these I wish voters would really wake and understand that the policies they want signed into the law need specific politicians in office to happen.  You can't merely vote for anyone with a (D) (or (R) for that matter) and just expect them to go along with stuff.   I am growing increasingly tired and annoyed that we still view everything through the lens of labels and parties instead of just looking at the actual policies.   This bill when originally proposed was very much a progressive leaning piece of legislation and much of it was popular across the political spectrum, however as predicted all it takes is labeling something socialist, communist, unamerican, etc etc.....and the support started to slowly slip.  I don't know how we move foward as a country when it comes to this stuff until people can clear the fog of nonsense and just concentrate on actual policy, then vote accordingly.     All these "moderate GOP" voters in FL & TX and elsewhere, you can say you support family leave, universal pre-K and all the other stuff all day every day, but until you are willing to vote for the actual politicians who also support and will pass it, and in majorities that can't be blocked?  Nothing will get done to the degree you want it to.

[tshile]

@NoCalMike

A nice side effect of ranked voting is you encourage people to learn about the options. Because you have a lot of options. 
 

It’s not just vote for the D tag or the R tag and that’s you’re only option. 
 

you could have multiples of each. Naturally you’d want to at least read the flyer at the polling center or something..

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

24 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

 

Manchin: "I think we should make it a condition that only people who are employed get paid leave..."

 

Lawmakers:

 

 

 

[The Sisko]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:38 AM, Riggo-toni said:

I wish the Dems had a newer version of Bill Bradley to push for eliminating tax deductions rather than the more popular but ineffective/inefficient raising of rates.  Make our corporate tax structure more like Germany, which has a rate of 18%, but whose tax code is 1/4 the size of the US. I like Biden's proposal for a ten percent minimum corporate tax rate, but am opposed to raising the marginal rate, which put businesses at a disadvantage against international firms, not to mention domestic companies which have a bigger budget to lobby for favorable exemptions.

 

The Dems ultimate dilemma is a voting electorate that wants contradictory outcomes - the massive social safety net of EU countries, but without the massive tax burden to pay for them.  Even Canada's middle of the road tax burden, including a 13% sales tax and about $1/gallon for gas (federal+provincial), would get the Dems thrown out if they tried to pass it.

^^This. Totally, this. I’ve said for some time that Dems should have adopted the flat(ter) tax plans the Grand Oligarch’s Party used to always harp on. Two, maybe three rates, with the only deductions being for mortgage interest, disabilities, >65, and kids, and maybe a few other things I’m missing. However all the deductions for having a blue corn farm that only operates on Wednesday in one state need to go away. They could vastly lower the rates which would help the average person pay less while assuring that corporations and the wealthy don’t have a bazillion loopholes to use as tax dodges. The cherry on the sundae would be they could say they cut taxes for ordinary people and decreased bureaucracy while making their taxes simpler to do every year. 
 

On 10/27/2021 at 10:10 PM, NoCalMike said:

Sinema appears to be one of those Democrats who talk the talk, but once in the position to actually follow through with legislation, she changes her tune quickly.

 

Seriously though, at this point Sinema & Manchin aren't even so much "negotiating" as they are running back and forth between Biden and their donors to demand what needs to be removed from the bill.  If these were true negotiations then for everything they are asking to be removed, they should offer up something in it's place or maybe keep the original item but give it less funding, but all they are doing is going through the bill and wanting things removed.

 

Times like these I wish voters would really wake and understand that the policies they want signed into the law need specific politicians in office to happen.  You can't merely vote for anyone with a (D) (or (R) for that matter) and just expect them to go along with stuff.   I am growing increasingly tired and annoyed that we still view everything through the lens of labels and parties instead of just looking at the actual policies.   This bill when originally proposed was very much a progressive leaning piece of legislation and much of it was popular across the political spectrum, however as predicted all it takes is labeling something socialist, communist, unamerican, etc etc.....and the support started to slowly slip.  I don't know how we move foward as a country when it comes to this stuff until people can clear the fog of nonsense and just concentrate on actual policy, then vote accordingly.     All these "moderate GOP" voters in FL & TX and elsewhere, you can say you support family leave, universal pre-K and all the other stuff all day every day, but until you are willing to vote for the actual politicians who also support and will pass it, and in majorities that can't be blocked?  Nothing will get done to the degree you want it to.

IMO there are three fundamental problems with this country that quite honestly, I don’t think are fixable. First, close to half the population in certain key states are morons. That feeds into the second problem, i.e., that group of morons can be easily led around by their noses via the Grand Oligarch’s Party’s various propaganda outlets using various nebulous, silly, yet effective culture war claims. Just ask one of them about what happened to the vast Islamic conspiracy to implement sharia law, or antifa, or one of a million other things like CRT now, that will quickly be cast aside for the next outrage.

Sadly, and third, because of the EC and the way Congressional representation is structured, it gives the advantage to the morons in perpetuity, or perhaps at least until another Great Depression level calamity that could push real full control over to the left and could allow them to rebalance things. Even then, they’d have to buck their lack of cojones and corporate overlords to get it done.

Edited October 31, 2021 by The Sisko

[skinsmarydu]

I'm still for the Fair Tax Plan.  (found the book, read it again...I think there's an updated version).  A "consumption" tax on NEW goods and services on the Federal level...folks who spend the most will pay the most.  It's a bit more complicated than that, but a whole lot simpler than the current tax system. 

 

And it would turn April 15 into just another beautiful spring day.  (A direct quote from the book.)

[PokerPacker]

7 hours ago, The Sisko said:

^^This. Totally, this. I’ve said for some time that Dems should have adopted the flat(ter) tax plans the Grand Oligarch’s Party used to always harp on. Two, maybe three rates, with the only deductions being for mortgage interest, disabilities, >65, and kids, and maybe a few other things I’m missing. However all the deductions for having a blue corn farm that only operates on Wednesday in one state need to go away. They could vastly lower the rates which would help the average person pay less while assuring that corporations and the wealthy don’t have a bazillion loopholes to use as tax dodges. The cherry on the sundae would be they could say they cut taxes for ordinary people and decreased bureaucracy while making their taxes simpler to do every year.

Something that was eye-opening to me was an NPR piece that described how the ultra-wealthy were avoiding paying taxes, which this plan doesn't cover.  You've got folks like Jeff Bezos who draw very little in terms of income to tax, so their wealth comes in the form of capital gains through stock ownership.  Capital Gains taxes supposedly should cover their situation, however those taxes only come due when they cash in their stocks.  Instead of cashing in their stocks, they simply take out loans with their stock as collateral, and when it comes time to pay off the loan, they take out another loan.  No income, no realized capital gains, no taxes.

[88Comrade2000]

CNBC: Frustrated Democratic donors threaten to hold back midterm donations over infighting in Congress, tight Virginia race

[tshile]

On 10/31/2021 at 11:05 AM, skinsmarydu said:

A "consumption" tax on NEW goods and services on the Federal level...folks who spend the most will pay the most

Isnt that a regressive tax? People who don’t make much spend all of it, therefore being taxed on everything they earn. Higher income invest it and then don’t get taxed? Or do they? 🤷‍♂️ 

[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

Isnt that a regressive tax? People who don’t make much spend all of it, therefore being taxed on everything they earn. Higher income invest it and then don’t get taxed? Or do they? 🤷‍♂️ 

There's actually a subsidy for necessary goods laid out in the plan.  It's worth the read. 

[skinsmarydu]

And another point...lower income folks don't tend to upgrade everything every year, higher income folks do.  And since the tax is only on NEW stuff...see how it works?  I think it's genius. 

[88Comrade2000]

Today is the one year anniversary of Joe's election. 

[88Comrade2000]

One year after his election, I think Joe's a mediocre President. He better get his bills done by Christmas because they aren't passing anything major next year, in an election year. Then 1 year from now, it will be gop wipe out; when they win full control.

[China]

For all those complaining that the democrats aren't getting things done, you must realize that it's difficult when you don't have a majority:

 

 

[NoCalMike]

11 minutes ago, China said:

For all those complaining that the democrats aren't getting things done, you must realize that it's difficult when you don't have a majority:

 

 

 

Nor does it help when zero GOP will cross the aisle to help the cause, despite the fact that if/when the bill passes, they are certainly going to campaign on a lot of the stuff this bill will help out with in their own states & districts.  

 

The fact that Manchin came out today and said the Virginia election is proof the Dems need to slow down negotiations to "get it right" is a bad sign.  In fact he is either purposely using the election as an excuse to further delay the bill or he is just not that bright OR he just knows he s in a safe position due to where he is in the country because if anything the election in Virginia to me, shows the opposite, that talking the talk doesn't work when you have nothing to show for it.  If that the bills had passed, then there is actual concrete legislation to run on as accomplishments.

 

I hope I am wrong, but I am assuming Manchin & Sinema are going to parlay this into trying to gut the bill even more or just refuse to sign on to it all together and goodbye goes any remaining hopes for 2022 & 2024.  

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Nor does it help when zero GOP will cross the aisle to help the cause, despite the fact that if/when the bill passes, they are certainly going to campaign on a lot of the stuff this bill will help out with in their own states & districts.  

 

The fact that Manchin came out today and said the Virginia election is proof the Dems need to slow down negotiations to "get it right" is a bad sign.  In fact he is either purposely using the election as an excuse to further delay the bill or he is just not that bright OR he just knows he s in a safe position due to where he is in the country because if anything the election in Virginia to me, shows the opposite, that talking the talk doesn't work when you have nothing to show for it.  If that the bills had passed, then there is actual concrete legislation to run on as accomplishments.

 

I hope I am wrong, but I am assuming Manchin & Sinema are going to parlay this into trying to gut the bill even more or just refuse to sign on to it all together and goodbye goes any remaining hopes for 2022 & 2024.  

Joe and Krysten are doing what their donors and the gop wants them to.

 

Their job is to drag this out to Jan. 23; when the gop will have control again. Their job is to make sure no bill passed at all. They will be rewarded with key positions in the gop senate; when both switch to the gop in 23.

 

 

Why not switch now?  You can't have that.  A GOP Senate now, could motivate Dems to come out in 22. So, you hold back and just obstruct the Dems and in the future you will be rewarded.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Rdskns2000

[88Comrade2000]

Well, the Yes We Can Dems won tonight.  Good job.

 

Now, time to get the other part of the deal done.

[Hersh]

Only the Dems would pass a really important bill on a Friday night right after an election. 

[88Comrade2000]

One down.   Will Joey M scuttle BBB part Duex?  If the Dems don't pass some version of BBB part 2 by the state of union in late January; expect an all out war.

 

Also, early look at potential Dem candidates if Joey B doesn't run in 24.

CNN: 11 Democrats who could replace Joe Biden in 2024