Renegade7 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: The Pope just couldn't take that last step to marriage equality. We should never expect church to say they will endorse marriage between anything but a man and a woman, its in the book. Now what rest of us do, that's up to us, so civil unions is probably as good as we can expect out of them and being consistent with what's actually in the bible. It's one thing to allow gay members, but should the Catholic Church actually do gay weddings? I believe that's @tshile that's not a new interpretation of the book, that's ignoring it to keep people coming to church. Right or wrong, going that far is likely to backfire, I believe in gay marriage, the bible doesn't. Bible shouldn't be used as a mean to oppress the LBGT+ community, I have my conflictions on its writings towards non-believers, but its in there whether I like it or not for example. 1 minute ago, Dan T. said: How long until religion as a human practice disappears? It gets exposed more and more as a vestige of an ancient, ignorant time. The many benefits of it - fellowship, caring for others, a moral compass - often get overshadowed by the tragedy and conflict brought about by the people who adhere to different faiths. Hard to answer this question until we see if bold calms down or not before society has moved on from it. Can't change history, it would not be fair of the world to hold a grudge towards organized religion if it changes it ways. I won't hold my breathe, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Fresh8686 said: I don't get why no one has attempted to build a spiritual practice on the universal values of love Oh, there is... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR you just have to be into drugs and robot music to find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Dan T. said: How long until religion as a human practice disappears? It gets exposed more and more as a vestige of an ancient, ignorant time. The many benefits of it - fellowship, caring for others, a moral compass - often get overshadowed by the tragedy and conflict brought about by the people who adhere to different faiths. Yet people still have those needs and still keep coming back . I think its possible certain aspects of Christianity get secularized and it becomes sort of a cultural tradition - kind of like what happened with Judaism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: Not getting into a religious discussion, but I'm pretty sure the Bible says a lot more about how you should be kind to people than about how you should hate people. Well, the second part does...the first part, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: Bible shouldn't be used as a mean to oppress the LBGT+ community Right. Or anyone for that matter (I know you agree just adding) the problem is that oppression has been created/fostered/furthered by our supposedly religious leaders. And they did it using religious text as the backing, supposedly. and while I get that it is probably unfair to lay blame at the feet of a 30 year old something preacher in a modernized church in a more liberal area, but the role of religious leaders in this situation cannot be ignored. people who claimed to be responsible for leading the rest of us on our spiritual adventure misused their role. And it’s not like they all stopped 40 years ago and a few of us are just holding grudges. Many still behave this way a s for many of the areas that have changed, they changed within the last 10ish years. I’m not equipped for a debate on this. I’m just pointing out my issue with the situation. I guess my point is the religious community has failed to adequately address this issue. At best they’ve appeared to have made a “business decision” and while I prefer they change rather than not... I have a huge problem with it being a business decision it should have been a moral decision. It should have been a religious decision. But it honestly doesn’t appear it is. And it should have happened a long time ago. And it didn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, tshile said: Oh, there is... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR you just have to be into drugs and robot music to find it I laugh, but straight up I respect people at least putting in the effort to build something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, Fresh8686 said: I laugh, but straight up I respect people at least putting in the effort to build something like this. Yeah. They got their reasons. My person belief is the biggest reason is everyone wants to eat acid and molly and not worry about dying. So everyone watches out for each other. it sounds like it’s made up or over exaggerate but it’s absolutely a real thing. And it’s pervasive in that subculture. theres and episode of Drugs on Netflix where they follow around two ecstasy/molly dealers in the Netherlands (I think...) One has high quality molly - which is basically safe if used correctly. Sorry if you already know but “molly” is the street work for MDMA which is the real ingredient in ecstasy everyone’s after. Molly is pure mdma. Ecstasy is mdma stepped on with other things (often heroin but also coke and lsd). Ecstasy is way more dangerous because you’re at the whims of whoever pressed it and what they pressed it with... anyways they both went to the same rave. The molly dealer usually goes there. So they were following him around on his routine. the E dealer was going for the first time. He usually dealt E on the streets. They showed him making it. This dude mixed lots of bad shut together, with no real chemistry knowledge to understand what he was doing, to make it his own. Anyways. That’s a really long post to get to the point: the episode ends with the E dealer doing an interview afterward where he basically says the experienced changed his life because everyone cared so much about each other. It got real emotional with him dedicating himself to changing everything about his life. He finally saw people actually care about each other. he was also coming down off a huge roll cause he ate so much so I’m sure he’s still dealing E on the streets. But it was a good primer in the PLUR subculture and how it effects people and what it’s about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Fresh8686 said: I don't get why no one has attempted to build a spiritual practice on the universal values of love. It's just there waiting for people to put it all together and it's completely internally consistent and threads the needle in such better ways than the bull**** others would have you believe. What are the “universal values of love”? I’m specifically interested in what would be considered immoral behavior. 14 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said: Yet people still have those needs and still keep coming back . I think its possible certain aspects of Christianity get secularized and it becomes sort of a cultural tradition - kind of like what happened with Judaism. That’s already happened. Cultural norms and concepts of right and wrong in western nations are largely based on religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Destino said: That’s already happened. Cultural norms and concepts of right and wrong in western nations are largely based on religion. Based on religion because without religion we wouldn’t have them? or based on religion because religion was around before more modern forms of government were developed, and as such “had them first”? sorry. Not trying to pick at nits. But it irks me when someone implies without religion we wouldn’t have our modern morals. It doesn’t take fear of going to hell to be nice to people and not murder/rape/steal. it’s certainly possible without religion we would have never developed our modern sense of ethics and morals. I don’t think it’s reasonable to suggest that’s likely though. in fact it seems religion super embraced the whole treating non-elites like **** for a really long time. Isn’t that really the foundation of the reformation? Serving the wealthy at the expense of everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Destino said: What are the “universal values of love”? I’m specifically interested in what would be considered immoral behavior. I don't necessarily equate it with "love", but I think the golden rule covers it. Don't **** on others and help when you can. Easy peasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said: Yet people still have those needs and still keep coming back . I think its possible certain aspects of Christianity get secularized and it becomes sort of a cultural tradition - kind of like what happened with Judaism. I was raised Methodist, am atheist now. The 10 Commandants are basically a framework for living in society, with Jesus' teachings an added bonus undercutting the harshness of the Old Testament. I raised my daughter the same way without the religious mumbo jumbo. She and her ex husband are doing the same with their daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: I don't necessarily equate it with "love", but I think the golden rule covers it. Don't **** on others and help when you can. Easy peasy. What if others are doing things that harm the group? Can I **** on them then? This is why I ask about immoral behavior specifically. It’s easy don’t say don’t kill people. Less easy to draw lines on pollution, which kills people. Even more difficult to draw lines around spreading dangerous ideas, which causes harm in all sorts of ways. Everyone doing whatever they want so long as it doesn’t directly harm anyone, often ends up indirectly harming a lot of people. Most widely accepted religious moral system are focused on the larger group at the expense of individuals. 14 minutes ago, tshile said: Based on religion because without religion we wouldn’t have them? or based on religion because religion was around before more modern forms of government were developed, and as such “had them first”? sorry. Not trying to pick at nits. But it irks me when someone implies without religion we wouldn’t have our modern morals. It doesn’t take fear of going to hell to be nice to people and not murder/rape/steal. it’s certainly possible without religion we would have never developed our modern sense of ethics and morals. I don’t think it’s reasonable to suggest that’s likely though. in fact it seems religion super embraced the whole treating non-elites like **** for a really long time. Isn’t that really the foundation of the reformation? Serving the wealthy at the expense of everyone else? Ethics and morality are the foundation of human culture. Before we can peacefully build civilizations we have to agree on the rules. Not just the big ones, but the little ones. They’d exist with or without religion. The specific ones that exist in western culture are largely influenced by the religions that played a massive role in the development of western culture. does that answer your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Destino said: What are the “universal values of love”? I’m specifically interested in what would be considered immoral behavior. That’s already happened. Cultural norms and concepts of right and wrong in western nations are largely based on religion. Well, my wife and I are making a video on it soon so maybe I'll post it here. What we've mapped together, we're calling the family of love and each element in that family has a spectrum and on that spectrum is a zone that shares space where all 18 and 6 elements carry a synergistic overlap. That zone is the goldilocks zone of love and maintaining that space while connected to all 18 elements creates the best way possible to build and exercise health, connection, capability, and many other things. Jesus' said we were supposed to build on what he worked on and do better than him, to thread the needle... and this threads the needle with 24 threads, but also each element is both needle and thread, because of the energetic superposition/overlap. This family in our opinion is the literal keys to the kingdom of heaven and whether you believe in god or not, it doesn't even matter because it is still the best and most joyous way to live. It's also universal because it is based on energies and they're chemistries that existed before language created labels for them so will still be viable if humans die out and some other race finds it. The mathematical interconnections between these elements are staggering (something like 18 to the 18th power to the 6th power at base), but at the same time, it is so balanced and harmonious that just thinking about it makes me sustainably happy. I'm literally using it to save my own life and heal myself from serious injuries, plus it's made my marriage the best experience ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, Destino said: does that answer your question? Yeah. I mean it seems like you’re not pushing the mindset I was talking about. So, yeah it answers it. it’d be interesting to see an objective charting of the true good/bad of that influence. I view the drug war as an influence from them (and maybe I’m wrong and I shouldn’t.) im reasonably confident at least a sizable portion of our foreign policy is driven by people under those same influences. And both have produced a incredibly large, likely unmeasurable, amount of bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said: Que? The RCC hasn’t stopped interfaith marriages for decades. Not stopping the marriage itself, but for example is the Catholic person in the marriage commonly required to swear in a written statement that they will raise the children as Catholic? Hardly equality in a marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said: Yet people still have those needs and still keep coming back . I think its possible certain aspects of Christianity get secularized and it becomes sort of a cultural tradition - kind of like what happened with Judaism. I think that’s happened In large measure. “Lapsed Catholics” who attend mass two times a year, who were raised Catholic and have internalized some of the tenets of the faith but have broken from the strict orthodoxy is one example. People who consider themselves “spiritual” but don’t identify with a specific religion is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Corcaigh said: Not stopping the marriage itself, but for example is the Catholic person in the marriage commonly required to swear in a written statement that they will raise the children as Catholic? Hardly equality in a marriage. The requirement is that the Catholic party will do everything in their power to raise any children as Catholic... exactly what that entails is a bit dodgy and something that has to be worked out between the couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said: The requirement is that the Catholic party will do everything in their power to raise any children as Catholic... exactly what that entails is a bit dodgy and something that has to be worked out between the couple. As I said at the beginning ... this is not supporting marriage equality between Catholics and Protestants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Religious Leaders Lash Out at Pope Francis for Supporting Civil Union Laws This week, in a new documentary, Pope Francis expressed his support for civil unions for same-sex couples. It’s both a big deal for the head of the Catholic Church to say that gay people deserve at least legal rights if not Church recognition… and also disappointing that this is the best the pope can do. But it didn’t take long for other Church leaders to chime in and remind the world that the Catholic Church remains a bigoted institution. Cardinal Raymond Burke, who once said families should not expose their children to relatives in “profoundly disordered and harmful” gay relationships, downplayed the pope’s comments. Quote The particular and sometimes deep-seated tendencies of persons, men and women, in the homosexual condition, which are for them a trial, although they may not in themselves constitute a sin, represent nonetheless an objectively disordered inclination… Bishop Thomas Tobin, who once said Catholics should avoid LGBTQ Pride events during June since they’re “especially harmful for children,” basically said the pope wasn’t being Catholic. Quote The Pope’s statement clearly contradicts what has been the long-standing teaching of the Church about same-sex unions. The Church cannot support the acceptance of objectively immoral relationships. Individuals with same-sex attraction are beloved children of God and must have their personal human rights and civil rights recognized and protected by law. However, the legalization of their civil unions, which seek to simulate holy matrimony, is not admissible. Click on the link for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 God, that Bishop is a stupid mother****er. The wiring of the brain and other biological conditions are not a trial from god or a disordered inclination. You're trial is to love these people, which means to shelter them from harm, nurture them, and foster their development and capacity to love and nurture/shelter/foster others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 On 10/21/2020 at 5:45 PM, Corcaigh said: As I said at the beginning ... this is not supporting marriage equality between Catholics and Protestants. So what would? There is no requirement for the non-Catholic spouse to refrain from trying to steer children towards their beliefs or non-beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Meanwhile... Pope Francis' Instagram caught liking model's raunchy photo The thirst trap, posted by Instagram model Natalia Garibotto, shows her leaning against lockers in a skimpy schoolgirl-and-suspenders outfit that leaves her very well-rounded derrière exposed. Click on the link for the full story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Good taste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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