A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Redwards]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

 

I just read this article a few minutes ago.  It basically pinpoints exactly why I was furious when we traded for Wentz.  He is simply not a good enough QB to ever win us a championship.  It's damn near impossible.  He's too erratic, holds the ball too long, STILL cannot sense incoming pressure (a point that's been highlighted by the media all week long) and has shaky mechanics causing him to miss routine throws that add up during a game - throws that have to be made.  You cannot win with a guy like that.  Not big you can't.  Not in today's NFL.  And Carson is who he is at this point in his career.  None of those things are going to improve on anything resembling a consistent basis.

 

Is Ron REALLY trying to win SBs here?  Or did he just get so impatient with the QB position (which he definitely was) that he settled for guy that - most of the time - is better than Taylor H. but not good enough and not consistent enough to win a championship?   At best, Carson may get us a sneaky wildcard appearance but at no point will make us a real threat to win the NFC much less the SB.   Why is that good enough?  If you're not putting yourself in a real position to win a championship, then it's a dumb move no matter how long it's been since our last playoff win.  

 

Playoff wins and division titles mean nothing - NOTHING - without championships behind them.  They're a footnote in the history of the game that are quickly forgotten.  Carson simply doesn't and never will move the needle enough.  Stone cold truth.  

Edited September 29, 2022 by Redwards

[FootballZombie]

3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

 

 

Man... I got in so many arguments over the offseason about how that massive contract was greatly impacting roster construction. People were so convinced you can just fit a number like that on the books like its nothing, or that it was not a big deal.

 

Feels silly looking back at it, arguing over the blatantly obvious.

 

 

“Obviously, we had to reassess and re-evaluate and kind of put a new plan together as to what we can and can’t do, especially with free agency,” coach Ron Rivera said in April after acquiring Wentz. “So it did have an impact on us, and it did change our point of view on some things, obviously, because of the cap.”

That impact is part of the story of Washington’s opening three games. Same with the subsequent personnel choices.

https://theathletic.com/3639353/2022/09/29/commanders-salary-cap-carson-wentz/?source=emp-shared-article

 

[CarlH]

Is there a chance Dan forced Wentz on Ron given his "finally got a real Quarterback" comment and his history of doing just that? Wentz was pretty successful (6-3 with a 5 game win streak from 2017-2nd game of 2020) against the Redskins, I could see Dan being enamored with Wentz because of that and forcing him on Ron considering everything going on with the organization this year. I know everyone says Ron wouldn't go along with that and would just quit but maybe he feels a sense responsibility to stick around out of loyalty to his players and all of his friends he brought here. I have no idea if any of that is true but I wouldn't be surprised if that came out. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by CarlH
Spelling

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Man... I got in so many arguments over the offseason about how that massive contract was greatly impacting roster construction. People were so convinced you can just fit a number like that on the books like its nothing, or that it was not a big deal.

This is a bit disingenuous.  
 

We just suck at managing the cap.  Other teams manage, massage and maneuver through this stuff.

[goskins10]

13 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Man... I got in so many arguments over the offseason about how that massive contract was greatly impacting roster construction. People were so convinced you can just fit a number like that on the books like its nothing, or that it was not a big deal.

 

Feels silly looking back at it, arguing over the blatantly obvious.

 

 

“Obviously, we had to reassess and re-evaluate and kind of put a new plan together as to what we can and can’t do, especially with free agency,” coach Ron Rivera said in April after acquiring Wentz. “So it did have an impact on us, and it did change our point of view on some things, obviously, because of the cap.”

That impact is part of the story of Washington’s opening three games. Same with the subsequent personnel choices.

https://theathletic.com/3639353/2022/09/29/commanders-salary-cap-carson-wentz/?source=emp-shared-article

 

 

I know you feel somehow vindicated but before you break your arm patting youself on the back, just because the team is poor at handling the CAP and seemingly were put on some kind of leash by Dan does not mean you were right at all. No one said it was unimportant. The point made by most of us was that if they really wanted the money they could find it. That is still just as true as it was then, especially as you were are are still using the words massive and greatly. It is a big contract but not amssive. There is an impact but it's not a great impact, both exxageratrions which was the point then and still is.

 

I am a bit dissapointed in Ron making excuses. I like Ron as he always been one to take blame when he should. This is a big uncharecteristic. But of coruse when people come to work for Dan, it seems like no one is immune from having thier worst self appear. 

 

The other point made was that $28M for a starting QB is really not really a lot of money if they are the long term answer. So far the results are mixed at best. Carson has shown some abilities we acve not seen here but also had a few of is well known WTF play. In fairness to him for some reason our Oline has turned to ****. He is not blameless but 3 games in there is still to find out. And the benifit of paying him the $28M this season is that he can be released after this season with $0 dead money.  

 

 

[dyst]

16 hours ago, Redwards said:

I just read this article a few minutes ago.  It basically pinpoints exactly why I was furious when we traded for Wentz.  He is simply not a good enough QB to ever win us a championship.  It's damn near impossible.  He's too erratic, holds the ball too long, STILL cannot sense incoming pressure (a point that's been highlighted by the media all week long) and has shaky mechanics causing him to miss routine throws that add up during a game - throws that have to be made.  You cannot win with a guy like that.  Not big you can't.  Not in today's NFL.  And Carson is who he is at this point in his career.  None of those things are going to improve on anything resembling a consistent basis.

 

Is Ron REALLY trying to win SBs here?  Or did he just get so impatient with the QB position (which he definitely was) that he settled for guy that - most of the time - is better than Taylor H. but not good enough and not consistent enough to win a championship?   At best, Carson may get us a sneaky wildcard appearance but at no point will make us a real threat to win the NFC much less the SB.   Why is that good enough?  If you're not putting yourself in a real position to win a championship, then it's a dumb move no matter how long it's been since our last playoff win.  

 

Playoff wins and division titles mean nothing - NOTHING - without championships behind them.  They're a footnote in the history of the game that are quickly forgotten.  Carson simply doesn't and never will move the needle enough.  Stone cold truth.  

Ron and company think they have built a great team and any QB can take us over the top. What they fail to realize is that we are at best an ordinary team and only an elite QB can put us over the top. Any other QB and we’re where we are currently at.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

I am a bit dissapointed in Ron making excuses. I like Ron as he always been one to take blame when he should. This is a big uncharecteristic.

If you remember, Jay was like that early in his HC career here. He never threw players nor coaches under the bus and took the blame on him.

 

Still, as years went by, in the end he started throwing players under the bus, because locker was already lost by now.

 

And this season under Ron feels a lot like those last years from Jay. Players are throwing coaches under the bus, coaches are throwing players under the bus... Weather seems stormy within the team right now.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 hours ago, CarlH said:

Is there a chance Dan forced Wentz on Ron given his "finally got a real Quarterback" comment and his history of doing just that? Wentz was pretty successful (6-3 with a 5 game win streak from 2017-2nd game of 2020) against the Redskins, I could see Dan being enamored with Wentz because of that and forcing him on Ron considering everything going on with the organization this year. I know everyone says Ron wouldn't go along with that and would just quit but maybe he feels a sense responsibility to stick around out of loyalty to his players and all of his friends he brought here. I have no idea if any of that is true but I wouldn't be surprised if that came out. 

There is always a chance.

 

 

[Zim489]

37 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

If you remember, Jay was like that early in his HC career here. He never threw players nor coaches under the bus and took the blame on him.

 

Still, as years went by, in the end he started throwing players under the bus, because locker was already lost by now.

 

And this season under Ron feels a lot like those last years from Jay. Players are throwing coaches under the bus, coaches are throwing players under the bus... Weather seems stormy within the team right now.

Um the way Jay threw Rob under the bus and then backed it up over top of him multiple times in 2014 to this day is still the worst bus throwing I have ever seen a coach do in any sport. What were you watching? Hes even talked about how that was a mistake from "early in my tenure" 

[Wildbunny]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

Um the way Jay threw Rob under the bus and then backed it up over top of him multiple times in 2014 to this day is still the worst bus throwing I have ever seen a coach do in any sport. What were you watching? Hes even talked about how that was a mistake from "early in my tenure" 

RG3 deserved it big time.

[Zim489]

4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

RG3 deserved it big time.

No one deserves to be thrown under the bus

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

No one deserves to be thrown under the bus

I disagree.

 

I rode with Griffin longer than he probably deserved.  He needed a kick in the ass after he had the audacity to be completely inept and then talk about Peyton Manning doesn’t play well, if the team doesn’t play well.  He’d been coddled long enough, it was time for somebody to serve him a dose of reality.

 

This is one case where I think singling a guy out was warranted and the locker room had no issue with it.

Edited September 30, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I disagree.

 

I rode with Griffin longer than he probably deserved.  He needed a kick in the ass after he had the audacity to be completely inept and then talk about Peyton Manning doesn’t play well, if the team doesn’t play well.  He’d been coddled long enough, it was time for somebody to serve him a dose of reality.

 

This is one case where I think singling a guy out was warranted and the locker room had no issue with it.

Difference between singling a guy out and throwing him under the bus. What Jay did was wrong even by his own admission. 

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

In fairness to him for some reason our Oline has turned to ****.

 

An Oline that was reconfigured with moderately priced fill-ins to save millions of dollars after Wentz contract was added to the books.

 

Cause n effect in operation. Or rather in-operational as the blocking unit has been terrible of late.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

On 9/28/2022 at 2:38 PM, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Even the jets have been further in the playoffs than this crap team since 1991. The Texans, they haven’t been closer to the 3rd round round than we have (although they’ve probably won more playoff games than us in that timespan?)

 

just pathetic. 

 

Dang, you're right! I just checked and the Jets have six times as many paloff wins as DC does since 2000. And the Texans have four times as many.

 

We can look the Browns squarely in the eye since we have the same number. So it's just the Lions we can look down upon...

[Zim489]

16 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

Dang, you're right! I just checked and the Jets have six times as many paloff wins as DC does since 2000. And the Texans have four times as many.

 

We can look the Browns squarely in the eye since we have the same number. So it's just the Lions we can look down upon...

And the Lions were absolutely hosed in the playoffs vs Dallas

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

An Oline that was reconfigured with moderately priced fill-ins to save millions of dollars after Wentz contract was added to the books.

 

Cause n effect in operation. Or rather in-operational as the blocking unit has been terrible of late.

 

Nice try but no 🙂  Brandon was given a record contract for a LG. He turned it down. So them gonig a different directly had nothing to do with Wentz contract. They knew they were paying up for a QB but still offered Brandon a record contract. They then signed Norwell and Trai Turner, while not huge ticket Gs they were not bargain basement either. Based on Walter Football they were in the top 11 of avcaialable Gs Not the end all be all but lookinmg at other site they are not a lot different.Ereck Flowers got $10M/yr. Does anyone think he was really worth $10M/yr? Not hardly. 

 

Now it is fair to question if they made the right choices in terms of talent and meshing and if the Matsko is not doing a good job of couching, especailly considering the Hoodini act from last year. But none of it had to do with Carson's contract. You are trying to connect two dots that do not go together. 

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

Your free to believe what you want my guy. I now know better than to argue with you about this.

[goskins10]

5 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Your free to believe what you want my guy. I now know better than to argue with you about this.

 

I provided data, people and numbers. If you can't do the same then you have no argument which at least makes bolded above valid. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

An Oline that was reconfigured with moderately priced fill-ins to save millions of dollars after Wentz contract was added to the books.

 

Cause n effect in operation. Or rather in-operational as the blocking unit has been terrible of late.

I recall debating on guaranteed money, cap hits, etc. over the summer and you seemed to lean towards playing with contracts to load up.

 

The team had options to maneuver around the cap with the Wentz deal, as well as others.  They simply close not to.  Which is why Ron was only telling half the story, the part that is convenient for him now that it looks like the guys he has in place look like doo doo.

 

[ClaytoAli]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I disagree.

 

I rode with Griffin longer than he probably deserved.  He needed a kick in the ass after he had the audacity to be completely inept and then talk about Peyton Manning doesn’t play well, if the team doesn’t play well.  He’d been coddled long enough, it was time for somebody to serve him a dose of reality.

 

This is one case where I think singling a guy out was warranted and the locker room had no issue with it.

You make it seem like you were personally hurt.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

You make it seem like you were personally hurt.

You make it seem like you spent 5 years after he lost his gig as a starter making excuses for his career.  😂

[TD_washingtonredskins]

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

And the benifit of paying him the $28M this season is that he can be released after this season with $0 dead money.  

 

 

It's been stated a million times by people much smarter than me, but that's clearly the most critical part of the trade to me. If Rivera (who I'm not a huge fan of) or anyone else truly thought they had "their guy" in Wentz, they obviously would have restructured his deal and freed up space to better address other positions. They didn't. Which meant they were going to evaluate him this year. 

 

I'm not one to defend the team and they should be held accountable for the results, but actions matter too. That action, more than anything, was telling. 

[tomwvr]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Nice try but no 🙂  Brandon was given a record contract for a LG. He turned it down. So them gonig a different directly had nothing to do with Wentz contract. They knew they were paying up for a QB but still offered Brandon a record contract. They then signed Norwell and Trai Turner, while not huge ticket Gs they were not bargain basement either. Based on Walter Football they were in the top 11 of avcaialable Gs Not the end all be all but lookinmg at other site they are not a lot different.Ereck Flowers got $10M/yr. Does anyone think he was really worth $10M/yr? Not hardly. 

 

Now it is fair to question if they made the right choices in terms of talent and meshing and if the Matsko is not doing a good job of couching, especailly considering the Hoodini act from last year. But none of it had to do with Carson's contract. You are trying to connect two dots that do not go together. 

Flowers is easily worth that. If your going to pay two washed up oline players each close to that Flowers who knew the system was a much better fit

[Conn]

1 hour ago, tomwvr said:

Flowers is easily worth that. If your going to pay two washed up oline players each close to that Flowers who knew the system was a much better fit

Flowers is easily worth $10M? Nobody else in the NFL agrees, and he’s looking like John Goodman ate another John Goodman right now. So what exactly are we talking about this guy for