2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I will say this... all in all this seems like an exceptionally weak IOL class as of this moment. A lot can change in a season. But yikes.

That's too bad. It will make two years in a row. More reason for the Redskins to get a long term deal done with Scherff.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

That's too bad. It will make two years in a row. More reason for the Redskins to get a long term deal done with Scherff.

 

Well, maybe not. These guys could improve for sure. But right now I think the class is all in all worse than last year's. But again, that could change dramatically in a season and likely will. Grading a bunch of underclassman vs.Seniors and elite declares.

[Est.1974]

23 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Question, if Charles is very good this year, but we are in a position to draft Sewell next year, do you draft Sewell and move Charles to RT? Does Charles have the ability to play on the right? Sewell looks like he'd be a beast on either side. 

Yes you do and yes I think he does.

 

Moses contract, and his level of play for that matter, makes him expendable at the earliest opportunity.

[KDawg]

 

guards/C... Finally.

 

If anyone is interested, I'm updating my first post in this thread on page 1 with my rankings as I finish.

Edited May 5, 2020 by KDawg

[KDawg]

I've looked at Pitts, Wydermyer and Jordan so far for tight ends.

 

I'm not all that impressed from any of them.

 

Wydermyer is the best blocker of them. Jordan is the worst.

 

Jordan is the best route runner/explosive athlete. Pitts is lazy on his route running and has poor separation. 

 

Wydermyer has good hands and good production. He's my top of those three thus far. Then Jordan. Then Pitts. But it's not crazy separation among them. 

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Thanks for your early TE work!

 

At least they are willing and don't miss assignments, that's half they battle and yes way better than we have become accustomed to with Davis and Reed. They both look pretty dynamic in the passing game. 

 

I have noticed Penn States Pat Freiemuth has been ranked high by some. I know little about him other than that he is listed around 6'5" 260 so a little more anchor.  Look forward to hearing your early thoughts on him.

 

 

 

I don't know. I realize these are younger dudes than the class evaluated last year, but I don't think these dudes stick out much more. I have them graded pretty close to last years overall class all in all. I think they'll surpass the class as a whole, and I think the top end may be better. But so far it's a lot of middle of the road types. Not overly impressed with anyone in the group. Bushman is likely the best of the bunch, imo. Freiermuth is... okay?

 

He's a lean heavy blocker where he is off balance and plays in space a lot. Not a good blocker in space. Okay production. Most of these guys are good in the flats but I don't see a whole lot else from these guys.

 

People are calling Freiermuth Baby Gronk because of his hands and its there clear as day in the highlight packages. But watching him in-game is a little different. So far I've watched 6 tight ends (keep in mind I'm not going crazy in depth with any of these watches... general grading...), but I have all of them between 83.7% (Bushman) and 77.5% (Pitts). So they're all guys who can likely do it. I think there is more "depth" to this year's TE class. But they're all C+ to B prospects right now in my eyes.

 

Again, that will change with this upcoming season into effect and some improvements made. For instance, I hear Pitts has put on some quality muscle.

 

Bushman could sky rocket. Friermuth could as well with his explosive potential. And Jordan, if he learns how to block better, could be much improved as a prospect.

 

We'll see. 

[cakmoney61]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:26 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

Current wish list:

 

Penei Sewell

Ja'marr Chase

 

I am with you 100%...

 

...as long as Haskins plays well to very well.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around picking in the Top 3 and even having access to Sewell or Chase.

 

Because the dominoes that would have to fall into place for us to win fewer than 5 games and be in position to have a Top 3-5 pick would have to mean that Haskins did not have a good year. If Haskins does not have a good year, I can't imagine that we will be passing on any of the top QBs next year, if the chalk plays out.

 

Personally I think Haskins will have a solid year. Stat-line around 3,800 yards ... 22 TDs and 14 INTs. Nothing spectatular, but enough from a 22-year old that you would continue to invest in building around him. If our defense is even middling, then I think we are looking at 6-8 wins this year. Maybe on the lower end since the schedule seems tough and we will be a very young team. But even that would put us in the Pick 8-14 range which is well outside of where Sewell and Chase are being penciled in today.

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Love Parsons and can't wait to see Moses return. Surtain is my top pick but Wade is just a tick below. Either would be great additions. They need to address LB and CB

totally agree on LB and CB. Also links into our impending FA in 2021, numerous players at both spots out of contract in 2021.

 

must admit college football isn’t something I tend to follow but would intend to this year, circumstances permitting.

 

and on the limited footage I’ve pick up on YouTube of some of these prospects, Parsons is without doubt my early man crush.

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Matt Miller's "Way too early 2021 Big Board"

1. Trevor Lawrence, QB Clemson

2. Penei Sewell, OT Oregon

3. Jamar Chase, WR LSU

4. Trey Lance, QB NDSU

5. Patrick Surtain II, CB Alabama

6. Micah Parson, LB Penn State

7. Jaylen Waddle, WR Alabama

8. Sam Cosmi, OT Texas

9. Dylan Moses, LB Alabama

10. Shaun Wade, CB Ohio State

11. Gregory Rousseau, Edge Miami

12. Devonta Smith, WR Alabama

13. Marvin Wilson, DL FSU

14. Sage Surratt, WR Wake Forest

15. Najee Harris, RB Alabama

16. Rondale Moore, WR Purdue

17. Rashod Bateman, WR Minnesota

18. Alex Leatherwood, OT Alabama

19. Jalen Mayfield, OT Michigan

20. Travis Etienne, RB Clemson

21. Justyn Ross, WR Clemson

22. Pat Freiermuth, TE Penn State

23. Trey Smith, IOL Tennessee

24. Justin Fields, QB Ohio State

25. Creed Humphrey, IOL Oklahoma

 

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller's "Way too early 2021 Big Board"

4. Trey Lance, QB NDSU

 

 

TBH, Miller's obsession with Lance is fun, but also a bit premature. I am all-aboard the hype-train having watched this guy live. But he was a freshman. His numbers were insane. His play was insane. But to compare him to Michael Vick? He's had one amazing year. If he can repeat it then I am all for proclaiming him a Top 5 talent. But he's still going to be coming out of his r-So season heading into the 2021 draft. Is that enough experience to warrant a Top 5 overall talent ahead of the likes of Parsons, Surtain, etc.? Pretty bold. I like it though. If only for the reason it'll put more eyeballs on the FCS this year. A JMU-NDSU rematch in the title game with the Lance hype would probably get high ratings.

Edited May 5, 2020 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

Justin Fields ranked 24th is a bit nutty as well. 

[Going Commando]

I don't think Fields is in Lawrence's world yet.  IMO there is a huge gap between them as prospects.  Lawrence is a blue chipper who has already demonstrated mastery of the passing game.  Fields is still pretty rough from what I saw of him last season.  Putting him on Lawrence's level assumes a lot of growth from him that may or may not happen.

[BayouBrave86]

If somehow we slip into the teens in next years draft order and go WR, look no further than Terrace Marshall Jr. He is going to make some noise this upcoming season alongside Chase. He was sort of the forgotten man this past season due to an injury he sustained. Jefferson and Chase got all the love but Terrace was on pace to catch 20 TDs last year. Finished with 13. He’s also that monster WR we’ve all been waiting for so many years. 6’4 and 201. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

I've looked at Pitts, Wydermyer and Jordan so far for tight ends.

 

I'm not all that impressed from any of them.

 

Wydermyer is the best blocker of them. Jordan is the worst.

 

Jordan is the best route runner/explosive athlete. Pitts is lazy on his route running and has poor separation. 

 

Wydermyer has good hands and good production. He's my top of those three thus far. Then Jordan. Then Pitts. But it's not crazy separation among them. 

 

I like Pitts and Jordan as to pass catching and YAC.  I said the other day I saw Pitts as a late first rounder type.  Noticed today Kiper put him as the 23rd best prospect in the 2021 draft.   Sounds about right to me.

 

We agreed on most of the prospects as to 2019 TEs  from what I recall sans Albert O who i recall you liked better than me.  IMO both Pitts and Jordan seem distinctly more spry, etc as to being playmakers than the 2019 crop of TEs IMO.  They both move like receivers IMO especially Pitts.  

Edited May 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around picking in the Top 3 and even having access to Sewell or Chase.

 

Because the dominoes that would have to fall into place for us to win fewer than 5 games and be in position to have a Top 3-5 pick would have to mean that Haskins did not have a good year. If Haskins does not have a good year, I can't imagine that we will be passing on any of the top QBs next year, if the chalk plays out.

 

Personally I think Haskins will have a solid year. Stat-line around 3,800 yards ... 22 TDs and 14 INTs. Nothing spectatular, but enough from a 22-year old that you would continue to invest in building around him. If our defense is even middling, then I think we are looking at 6-8 wins this year. Maybe on the lower end since the schedule seems tough and we will be a very young team. But even that would put us in the Pick 8-14 range which is well outside of where Sewell and Chase are being penciled in today.

 

Yeah I don't see this total collapse that the NFL pundit types do.  Although I admit they predicted the same last season and I thought they were off at the time and they were proven right.  But yeah we are sort of the hip pick as the worst or at best third worst team in the NFL headed to this season.

 

I don't see this team making that much waves in 2020.  It seems like a team set up to go big in 2021 so it might not be the end of the world to have one more bad season (get another crazy big time prospect like Sewell or Chase, etc)  albeit it would be bad for Rivera-Kyle as to building a culture and getting players to buy in.  

 

My gut is this is a 7-9 team in 2020 but 11-5 in 2021.   This is the last season where Alex's contract kills us.  That contract still has some legs if I recall in 2021 but by then its no longer 20 million, then.  We should have plenty of money to keep the D line going if we choose to do so.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't know. I realize these are younger dudes than the class evaluated last year, but I don't think these dudes stick out much more. I have them graded pretty close to last years overall class all in all. I think they'll surpass the class as a whole, and I think the top end may be better. But so far it's a lot of middle of the road types. Not overly impressed with anyone in the group. Bushman is likely the best of the bunch, imo. Freiermuth is... okay?

 

He's a lean heavy blocker where he is off balance and plays in space a lot. Not a good blocker in space. Okay production. Most of these guys are good in the flats but I don't see a whole lot else from these guys.

 

People are calling Freiermuth Baby Gronk because of his hands and its there clear as day in the highlight packages. But watching him in-game is a little different. So far I've watched 6 tight ends (keep in mind I'm not going crazy in depth with any of these watches... general grading...), but I have all of them between 83.7% (Bushman) and 77.5% (Pitts). So they're all guys who can likely do it. I think there is more "depth" to this year's TE class. But they're all C+ to B prospects right now in my eyes.

 

Again, that will change with this upcoming season into effect and some improvements made. For instance, I hear Pitts has put on some quality muscle.

 

Bushman could sky rocket. Friermuth could as well with his explosive potential. And Jordan, if he learns how to block better, could be much improved as a prospect.

 

We'll see. 

Well it will be interesting to see how all the players progress this year....assuming they are able to play. I am not familiar with Bushman, but it sounds like I will be shortly lol. Look forward to watching all of these guys. It is too bad there don't appear to be any true blue chippers.

 

I also thought Jordan appeared a little more explosive with the ball.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Well it will be interesting to see how all the players progress this year....assuming they are able to play. I am not familiar with Bushman, but it sounds like I will be shortly lol. Look forward to watching all of these guys. It is too bad there don't appear to be any true blue chippers.

 

I also thought Jordan appeared a little more explosive with the ball.

Jordan is a problem with the ball. He’s also an okay blocker as an H or banana blocking. He’s horrendous in line and base blocking. It’s painful. 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Pitts and Jordan as to pass catching and YAC.  I said the other day I saw Pitts as a late first rounder type.  Noticed today Kiper put him as the 23rd best prospect in the 2021 draft.   Sounds about right to me.

 

We agreed on most of the prospects as to 2019 TEs  from what I recall sans Albert O who i recall you liked better than me.  IMO both Pitts and Jordan seem distinctly more spry, etc as to being playmakers than the 2019 crop of TEs IMO.  They both move like receivers IMO especially Pitts.  

I don’t see how he can have Pitts ranked that high. I watched all the games available on YouTube. I see a receiver with good hands who, when he gets the ball is a playmaker. But he’s also a lunge blocker. Willing but not quite able. Doesn’t have the strength (last season). 
 

he could grow, though. He has potential.

Edited May 6, 2020 by KDawg

[KDawg]

Found the current best blocking tight end in the group. Didn't have production as a receiver, and he certainly isn't an explosive athlete like the others... but his blocking is far superior to any TE I've watched to this point:

 

 

 

Luke Farrell, Ohio State.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, KDawg said:

Jordan is a problem with the ball. He’s also an okay blocker as an H or banana blocking. He’s horrendous in line and base blocking. It’s painful. 

I don’t see how he can have Pitts ranked that high. I watched all the games available on YouTube. I see a receiver with good hands who, when he gets the ball is a playmaker. But he’s also a lunge blocker. Willing but not quite able. Doesn’t have the strength (last season). 
 

he could grow, though. He has potential.

 

Kiper isn't alone hyping Pitts, it's part of the reason why I watched him first, he has plenty of early buzz.  For me it's you can't teach someone to be dynamic.  Either you got it or you don't.  The reason why Pitts grabbed me right away on that front is after watching 20 plus TEs from the last class including who most considered the best TE, Kmet, Pitts strikes me that he can move better than all of them IMO.  You feel like you are watching a receiver.   He gets off the line of scrimmage fast.  And can catch a ball in stride and turn a screen or hitch, etc and grab another 5 yards plus.  I don't recall a TE from the 2020 group who could do that at Pitt's same level.   And ditto Jordan.

 

As for his blocking alone, yeah I agree he lunges. The reason why I saw him as a late first rounder as opposed to an earlier first rounder like lets say Hockenson is his blocking needs to improve.  But he's a willing blocker.  And I think he can be developed on that front.   He needs to put on about 10 pounds of muscle IMO.   But yeah his upside is certainly the receiver component of his game versus blocking.  He's a weapon type. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

 

There's my TE rankings. Farrell and Ferguson are the best blockers of the group. Wydermyer isn't far behind, though. It's really close with these guys and this season will do a lot for where they land.

 

I see the potential especially in Pitts, Jordan and Freiermuth. But it's not there yet. I'm grading them as tight ends, which is to account for well rounded-ness, not as receivers. Pitts and Jordan would both fare better with less emphasis on blocking. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Found the current best blocking tight end in the group. Didn't have production as a receiver, and he certainly isn't an explosive athlete like the others... but his blocking is far superior to any TE I've watched to this point:

 

 

 

Luke Farrell, Ohio State.

 

He reminds me physically of Asiasi and ditto as a blocker but not as dynamic.  If we are going for a blocker first and foremost but not so much a playmaker than someone like Farrell to me would fit.    The way i look at it though is we already have a dude like that in Hentges.

 

Ideally, I'd love to have a TE who is great at everything and that's part of the reason why I loved Hockenson 2 drafts ago albeit he hasn't gotten off to a hot start though Te's typically don't.  Otherwise if I had to choose, I'd take a TE who is a monster receiver type and is just OK as a blocker.  I want a TE who is a real threat in the passing game like Jordan Reed but can block better than Jordan.  If you can find one who can do both at an elite level like Kittle, that's the dream, but they aren't that easy to find. 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

There's my TE rankings. Farrell and Ferguson are the best blockers of the group. Wydermyer isn't far behind, though. It's really close with these guys and this season will do a lot for where they land.

 

I see the potential especially in Pitts, Jordan and Freiermuth. But it's not there yet. I'm grading them as tight ends, which is to account for well rounded-ness, not as receivers. Pitts and Jordan would both fare better with less emphasis on blocking. 

 

You've watched quite a few I got to catch up.  I plan to watch Freiermuth next. 😀

Edited May 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He reminds me physically of Asiasi and ditto as a blocker but not as dynamic.  If we are going for a blocker first and foremost but not so much a playmaker than someone like Farrell to me would fit.    The way i look at it though is we already have a dude like that in Hentges.

 

Ideally, I'd love to have a TE who is great at everything and that's part of the reason why I loved Hockenson 2 drafts ago albeit he hasn't gotten off to a hot start though Te's typically don't.  Otherwise if I had to choose, I'd take a TE who is a monster receiver type and is just OK as a blocker.  I want a TE who is a real threat in the passing game like Jordan Reed but can block better than Jordan. 

 

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree. It's why dudes like Ferguson and Farrell are currently my two lowest ranked TEs. Blocking is only part of the equation.

 

But I'd like to see the dynamic pass catchers learn to block a bit better and put some effort in. I think that would absolutely raise their ceiling tremendously. Especially for how much they play the H/in-line roles and the offense Turner is likely to utilize from an "us" perspective. If they're looked at as receivers its a touch of a different ball game. But I'm trying to do this looking at the tight end role in the modern game of doing a lot of everything for grading purposes. Pitt is dynamic, but as a pass catcher he pales in comparison to the receivers. He needs to be a better blocker.

 

He is absolutely willing. And if reports are true he put on size we may see exactly that jump this year. If he can block, I'd be big time on Pitts.

 

Given Wydermyer's eligibility standing, I wouldn't be surprised if he wound up the heads and tails best TE of the entire group, either. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by KDawg

[Going Commando]

Brant Kuithe from Utah is a stud too.  He's the Jordan Reed of the class.  He's got an awesome YAC and open field running element to his game that is fairly unique for the position.  He can scoot and has real wiggle in the open field.  He could be the best H-Back of the bunch and has highly desirable utility for going in motion and running reverses and such.

 

This class has five underclassman TEs in it who could be top 50 players if they declare.  It'll either be feast or famine at the position depending on the decisions they make.

 

Texas A&M also got the top TE recruit of the 2019 class in Baylor Cupp, and I believe he redshirted last season.  Their two TE personnel is going to be awesome, and the situation is also the kind of thing that could push Wiedermeyer into the draft early.  That kid would have easily been the best TE prospect in the 2020 class, he is a specimen.  This is hugely speculative, but he could end up being a major value pick if he gets pushed down the board by Kuithe/Pitts/Jordan/Freirmuth and has his production eaten into by Cupp.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He is absolutely willing. And if reports are true he put on size we may see exactly that jump this year. If he can block, I'd be big time on Pitts.

 

It's hard for me to explain but when I watch receivers, running backs and tight ends -- some dudes explosiveness just jump at me immediately. Many don't jump out at me like that.  But when they do, it grabs my attention because I highly value that quality in playmakers.  Pitts is in that category for me.  Ditto Jordan who I like a hair less perhaps but he's close.

 

As a blocker, Pitts struck me willing but he is a tall guy without enough girth.  And thereby he can be bulldozed over at times because he can lose leverage-balance when pushed hard -- like when he is bull rushed, etc from a relentless defender.   

 

From what I watched, Pitts and Jordan can get blown up in pass protection in particular, I think they are better as run blockers.  But I think you can work with both of them because they will put their bodies in front of their intended block and don't miss their assignments much from what I saw.  Part of the reason why I was down on Jordan Reed as a blocker was his unwillingness too often to put his body in front of the intended block or he'd just whiff and miss the block.  And that I found weird in part because Jordan Reed as a receiver was a baller and pretty courageous but as a blocker he was often timid IMO.  

 

 

Kiper's top 5 TEs right now are.  I'll look at them probably first then dive into others. 

 

1.  Freiermuth, Penn State

2. Kyle Pitts, Florida

3. Brevin Jordan, Miami

4. Charlie Kolar, Iowa State

5. Cade Otton, Washington

Edited May 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise