2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mhd24]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley has been mostly on the money the rare times he's shared behind the scenes gossip.  According to him, (he shared it on a podcast), the two guys Kyle wanted at pick #15 in 2019 was either Sweat or Darnell Savage.  If they took Savage (who I liked here among others) that would have been wild.  Safety at 15?

I wonder how savage has been in GB.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I wonder how savage has been in GB.

GREEN BAY – Packers safety Darnell Savage and guard Elgton Jenkins have been named to the Professional Football Writers of America (PFWA) All-Rookie team for 2019.

The Packers traded up to take Savage with the 21st pick in the first round of the NFL Draft back in April. The 5-foot-11, 198-pound safety tallied 55 tackles, five passes defensed, two interceptions and two forced fumbles in 14 regular-season starts.

 

https://www.packers.com/news/packers-s-darnell-savage-g-elgton-jenkins-named-to-pfwa-all-rookie-team

5 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I wonder how savage has been in GB.

 

Forgot to mention he heard he really liked Jonathan Abram a lot too

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley has been mostly on the money the rare times he's shared behind the scenes gossip.  According to him, (he shared it on a podcast), the two guys Kyle wanted at pick #15 in 2019 was either Sweat or Darnell Savage.  If they took Savage (who I liked here among others) that would have been wild.  Safety at 15?

Is it crazy to take a safety that high? Depends on the player. Savage is versatile and can also play some CB. 

 

 

[mhd24]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

GREEN BAY – Packers safety Darnell Savage and guard Elgton Jenkins have been named to the Professional Football Writers of America (PFWA) All-Rookie team for 2019.

The Packers traded up to take Savage with the 21st pick in the first round of the NFL Draft back in April. The 5-foot-11, 198-pound safety tallied 55 tackles, five passes defensed, two interceptions and two forced fumbles in 14 regular-season starts.

 

https://www.packers.com/news/packers-s-darnell-savage-g-elgton-jenkins-named-to-pfwa-all-rookie-team

 

Forgot to mention he heard he really liked Jonathan Abram a lot too

 

 

Now, Abram I like too.  He unfortunately had a season ending injury early last year, but he balls out when he's on the field.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Is it crazy to take a safety that high? Depends on the player. Savage is versatile and can also play some CB. 

 

 

Not sure its crazy.  But easier to sell I think a pass rusher than a pure safety.  But I wouldn't have hated it.  

[Going Commando]

13 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Is it crazy to take a safety that high? Depends on the player. Savage is versatile and can also play some CB. 

 

Holy crap.  I missed the Alabama game last night so I didn't see Waddle's game.  That first catch was incredible.  An overthrown hospital pass into double coverage and he just went up and made the play.

 

This kid is a ****ing incredible athlete and playmaker.  I see why people like him so much.  He's probably as good as Rondale Moore and he's better than Amon-Ra.  Teams are going to like his versatility as an elite three level playmaker with ST value.

 

I'm kind of crystallizing an early top ten for the class and I've got:

 

1 - Trevor Lawrence

2 - Penei Sewell

3 - JaMarr Chase

4 - Micah Parsons

5 - Rondale Moore

6 - Jaylen Waddle

7 - Kyle Pitts

8 - Pat Freirmuth

9 - Najee Harris

10 - Travis Etienne

 

TBF, I haven't gotten a feel for Basham or Rosseau yet though.  Shaun Wade could be a top ten guy too, and I want to see how the SEC corners shake out because some of them could too.  Mainly I feel pretty good about projecting these ten dudes as having star potential.

[Going Commando]

Jay Tufele and Marvin Wilson probably just outside of that top ten range for me.  Tufele has some Ndamukong Suh to him, good and bad.  And Wilson is a Fletcher Cox/Akeem Hicks type interior presence.  I'd probably put Trey Smith in the teens too, to me he looks better than Chris Lindstrom was.  Fields will go early too, as will several corners and a couple of edge rushers, so if you add all of that up, we should have a good option picking top 20.  To me, Pitts, Moore, and Freirmuth are the most likely to offer very high value to us if we pick in the teens.  Parsons could still be available in that range too.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Holy crap.  I missed the Alabama game last night so I didn't see Waddle's game.  That first catch was incredible.  An overthrown hospital pass into double coverage and he just went up and made the play.

 

 

I saw some of it  and the guy we both like Devonta Smith played well at least in the parts I watched. It looks like he might have put a little weight on but he still needs more girth.   The thing that I can't get over about Smith is  with all the talent Alabama has had at receiver in recent years -- Smith has been the most go to guy in key downs and plays big in big games. 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Holy crap.  I missed the Alabama game last night so I didn't see Waddle's game.  That first catch was incredible.  An overthrown hospital pass into double coverage and he just went up and made the play.

 

This kid is a ****ing incredible athlete and playmaker.  I see why people like him so much.  He's probably as good as Rondale Moore and he's better than Amon-Ra.  Teams are going to like his versatility as an elite three level playmaker with ST value.

 

I'm kind of crystallizing an early top ten for the class and I've got:

 

1 - Trevor Lawrence

2 - Penei Sewell

3 - JaMarr Chase

4 - Micah Parsons

5 - Rondale Moore

6 - Jaylen Waddle

7 - Kyle Pitts

8 - Pat Freirmuth

9 - Najee Harris

10 - Travis Etienne

 

TBF, I haven't gotten a feel for Basham or Rosseau yet though.  Shaun Wade could be a top ten guy too, and I want to see how the SEC corners shake out because some of them could too.  Mainly I feel pretty good about projecting these ten dudes as having star potential.

 

I actually really like that top 10, but not necessarily in that order. Wow. You really like Rondale Moore. I thought I was the only one that high on him. I think he's Tyreek Hill, essentially. I thought Moore would be a lot younger than Waddle, but Moore is 20 and Waddle 21. The way Moore was an impact player the second he stepped onto the field in college, I think he will be an instant impact player in the NFL, in the right system. And actually, a Ron Turner offense could be great for him. Imagine putting Rondale Moore in the Slot, signing Juju to play outside and moving Sims to WR4. TE in the second and we actually have a proven, young, exciting skill position core.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Jay Tufele and Marvin Wilson probably just outside of that top ten range for me.  Tufele has some Ndamukong Suh to him, good and bad.  And Wilson is a Fletcher Cox/Akeem Hicks type interior presence.  I'd probably put Trey Smith in the teens too, to me he looks better than Chris Lindstrom was.  Fields will go early too, as will several corners and a couple of edge rushers, so if you add all of that up, we should have a good option picking top 20.  To me, Pitts, Moore, and Freirmuth are the most likely to offer very high value to us if we pick in the teens.  Parsons could still be available in that range too.

 

It's a good year to have needs on the interior DL. I don't think there is any way Parsons drops. 5 star recruit with HOF physical attributes, great character and consistent excellence in production as a run stopper, and blitzer and maybe slightly less so in coverage. In a year where a lot of guys opt out, and evaluations are a little tougher, Parsons is one of the few sure things. That will push him up. 

 

 

[KDawg]

52 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Holy crap.  I missed the Alabama game last night so I didn't see Waddle's game.  That first catch was incredible.  An overthrown hospital pass into double coverage and he just went up and made the play.

 

This kid is a ****ing incredible athlete and playmaker.  I see why people like him so much.  He's probably as good as Rondale Moore and he's better than Amon-Ra.  Teams are going to like his versatility as an elite three level playmaker with ST value.

 

I'm kind of crystallizing an early top ten for the class and I've got:

 

1 - Trevor Lawrence

2 - Penei Sewell

3 - JaMarr Chase

4 - Micah Parsons

5 - Rondale Moore

6 - Jaylen Waddle

7 - Kyle Pitts

8 - Pat Freirmuth

9 - Najee Harris

10 - Travis Etienne

 

TBF, I haven't gotten a feel for Basham or Rosseau yet though.  Shaun Wade could be a top ten guy too, and I want to see how the SEC corners shake out because some of them could too.  Mainly I feel pretty good about projecting these ten dudes as having star potential.

 

Well, you won't get much of a feel for Rosseau beyond his film from last year.

 

My top 10 (I didn't take position into consideration here all that much):

 

1. Penei Sewell (opted out)

2. Trevor Lawrence

3. Micah Parsons (opted out)

4. Jaylen Waddle

5. Trey Lance

6. JaMarr Chase

7. Travis Etienne

8. Patrick Surtain II

9. Jevon Holland (opted out)

10. Trey Smith

11. Shaun Wade 

12. Kyle Pitts

13. Justin Fields

14. Gregory Rosseau (opted out)

15. Rondale Moore

16. Alex Leatherwood

17. Path Freirmuth

18. Christian Harris

19. Najee Harris

20. Brevin Jordan

 

So, Christian Harris impressed me a lot. He sneaks in, for now. As more film becomes available I may find I was overly optimistic on him. This is a very, very fluid list, obviously. He impressed me more than Moses did in the game yesterday... but Moses has some rust that will work itself off. And Moses did show glimpses of the old Moses. 

 

I have Trey Lance as the #2 QB. I think he has potential to be the best QB in this class due to how much of a dual threat he is, but I'm not sure he's going to surpass Lawrence due to his competition level... I'm not sure he holds off Fields on my final list, either.

 

I have Waddle as the top receiver. He does too much. I may reconsider JaMarr Chase being up top, as he is as good as advertised I think. But, it's tough to factor in how many favors Burrow did for him last year. Chase is fast, explosive and strong as hell, though. So, chances are I re-think this. But Waddle can return, he plays on kick off coverage (won't in the NFL most likely), run the ball, lays out in heavy traffic. He's what Steven Sims is... except much better at it. 

 

This list is going to change. A lot. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

25 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I actually really like that top 10, but not necessarily in that order. Wow. You really like Rondale Moore. I thought I was the only one that high on him. I think he's Tyreek Hill, essentially. I thought Moore would be a lot younger than Waddle, but Moore is 20 and Waddle 21. The way Moore was an impact player the second he stepped onto the field in college, I think he will be an instant impact player in the NFL, in the right system. And actually, a Ron Turner offense could be great for him. Imagine putting Rondale Moore in the Slot, signing Juju to play outside and moving Sims to WR4. TE in the second and we actually have a proven, young, exciting skill position core.

 

That would be a major offseason overhaul that could send our skill group form worst in the league to legit good.  I haven't watched him much the last two years, but isn't Juju pretty much a slot guy though?  Good receivers play all over the field in a modern, opened-up passing game though.

 

I love Moore, think he's a bonafide star, and I like the Tyreek Hill comp for him.  He might not be quite as fast as Hill, but he's in that ball park and he is stronger and more punishing.  Waddle has some Tyreek Hill in him too, just in terms of his top notch explosiveness.  But I think I like a Steve Smith upside comparison for Waddle the best.  That kid plays with balls.  He was really good as a freshman too but got buried on their depth chart last season.  This is going to be a breakout year for him I think.  He's going to get drafted high, possibly even higher than Moore.

 

I could see these as the NFL upside comparisons for that top ten list I posted:

 

Lawrence - Andrew Luck/DeShaun Watson

Sewell - Orlando Pace

Chase - DeAndre Hopkins

Parsons - Darius Leonard

Moore - Hill

Waddle - Steve Smith

Pitts - Travis Kelce

Freirmuth - Gronk

Harris - LeVeon Bell

Etienne - Kamara

 

You're probably right about Parsons.  But if he doesn't opt back in to the season, I think that will hurt his draft stock, not help it.  There is going to be recency bias working against most of the guys who opted out, as new stars emerge from play this season.  And another consideration is that linebackers tend to fall in the draft.  Even Kuechly went 9th when he was probably a top three or four prospect in his class. Much stranger things have happened than a scenario where Parsons falls into the early teens.

[mhd24]

53 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Holy crap.  I missed the Alabama game last night so I didn't see Waddle's game.  That first catch was incredible.  An overthrown hospital pass into double coverage and he just went up and made the play.

 

This kid is a ****ing incredible athlete and playmaker.  I see why people like him so much.  He's probably as good as Rondale Moore and he's better than Amon-Ra.  Teams are going to like his versatility as an elite three level playmaker with ST value.

 

I'm kind of crystallizing an early top ten for the class and I've got:

 

1 - Trevor Lawrence

2 - Penei Sewell

3 - JaMarr Chase

4 - Micah Parsons

5 - Rondale Moore

6 - Jaylen Waddle

7 - Kyle Pitts

8 - Pat Freirmuth

9 - Najee Harris

10 - Travis Etienne

 

TBF, I haven't gotten a feel for Basham or Rosseau yet though.  Shaun Wade could be a top ten guy too, and I want to see how the SEC corners shake out because some of them could too.  Mainly I feel pretty good about projecting these ten dudes as having star potential.

 

 

I really love your draft analysis.  Did you forget about Trey Lance?

[Rex Tomb]

4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

I really love your draft analysis.  Did you forget about Trey Lance?

And what about Leatherwood? Where would he fit in?

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I really love your draft analysis.  Did you forget about Trey Lance?

 

I haven't watched him yet at all.  I won't rank guys if I don't have a feel for them.  I'm hoping we get some televised games for him this year and some full game cut ups, because everything else I've seen of him is just highlight reels.

6 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

And what about Leatherwood? Where would he fit in?

 

It depends on how much he's improved this season, but I think some of his deficiencies are physical and not necessarily things he can improve.  Right now I'd have him projected as a second round prospect.

[Rex Tomb]

7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I haven't watched him yet at all.  I won't rank guys if I don't have a feel for them.  I'm hoping we get some televised games for him this year and some full game cut ups, because everything else I've seen of him is just highlight reels.

 

It depends on how much he's improved this season, but I think some of his deficiencies are physical and not necessarily things he can improve.  Right now I'd have him projected as a second round prospect.

Gotcha. Thanks!

[KDawg]

I just realized Christian Harris is a freakin sophomore. Wow.

 

 

So, he'll be off my list. But he'll be on it next year

[Anselmheifer]

Sooooooo, Sewell and a veteran QB?Maybe the Cowboys can't afford Dak. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

Sooooooo, Sewell and a veteran QB?Maybe the Cowboys can't afford Dak. 

I love Sewell, but at this point take your pick. This team has holes across the OL, WR 2, slot receiver, RB could be upgraded, TE, QB, ILB, OLB, FS, SS and maybe CB (though I’m starting to think they may be okay long term).

 

Other than that, good shape.

[Riggo#44]

Just now, KDawg said:

I love Sewell, but at this point take your pick. This team has holes across the OL, WR 2, slot receiver, RB could be upgraded, TE, QB, ILB, OLB, FS, SS and maybe CB (though I’m starting to think they may be okay long term).

 

Other than that, good shape.

 

You forgot kicker.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Sooooooo, Sewell and a veteran QB?Maybe the Cowboys can't afford Dak. 

 

 

 I have a strong suspicion that if the season keeps on this track, we should be looking at Trask, Fields, Lance, Lawrence because the FO will likely be doing so.  Rivera didn't draft Haskins.  And according to multiple beat guys, Kyle Smith wasn't really a Haskins guy or at least deemed him a first round talent.  We can argue the merits of that one way or another but IMO its irrelevant.

 

As much as I thought it was most likely a fantasy that the FO would consider a QB in the last draft, I think its equally a fantasy that they won't seriously consider one in this draft if the top 4 QBs are all they are cracked up to be.  Not sure Trask is #4 but i am presuming someone will emerge as the 4th best QB.  Maybe Fields and Lance don't take the next step as some expect.  Will see.  But if they do emerge and the season keeps going on this track -- I'd put money that we take a QB if we end up with a top 4 pick. 

 

And I think its possible we end up with a pick that high.  Cleveland isn't that good.  Cincy put up a much better fight against them than we did today.  We go head to head against Cincy.  The Giants are bad but they've pracitcally owned us in recent years including sweeping us last season and blowing us out in one of those games.  The other easier games are the Lions and Panthers.  Lions are puttiing up a much better fight than we did against Arizona and might end up winning that game.  The Panthers have been competitve in 2 of their first three games. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

I love Sewell, but at this point take your pick. This team has holes across the OL, WR 2, slot receiver, RB could be upgraded, TE, QB, ILB, OLB, FS, SS and maybe CB (though I’m starting to think they may be okay long term).

 

Other than that, good shape.

I feel like half of these holes aren't actually holes. QB is the big one, we have to find our QB or the whole team is going to look bad regardless. Even good teams have holes but they win so they're overlooked. Like the Ravens have a weak DL and pretty weak WRs, but nobody ever talks about their weaknesses because they're awesome. 

[Riggo#44]

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-trey-lance-north-dakota-state-qb-similar-to-andrew-luck

[KDawg]

I think I like Lance more than I like Lawrence, but its not a fair evaluation to this point because there's not a lot on Lance out there. But what I've seen... He's everything you want in a modern day QB. Lawrence is excellent, for sure, though. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I think I like Lance more than I like Lawrence, but its not a fair evaluation to this point because there's not a lot on Lance out there. But what I've seen... He's everything you want in a modern day QB. Lawrence is excellent, for sure, though. 

We might be able to win 1 more game tops this season to be in the running for Lawrence. Fields scares the crap out of me, like any Ohio State QB. Lance's level of competition makes me nervous, it seems like he's the type that would take a few years to develop. 

[mhd24]

Kyle Allen would at least make us competitive.  If we want to tank, Haskins is the ultimate tank commander