2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

I would just hold off on calling Parsons undraftable just yet. Remember they said similar things about Warren Sapp and Randy Moss.

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I would just hold off on calling Parsons undraftable just yet. Remember they said similar things about Warren Sapp and Randy Moss.

Those were drug related, and frankly innocuous (weed).  Parsons is conduct related.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Those were drug related, and frankly innocuous (weed).  Parsons is conduct related.

Moss was conduct related as well. IIRC he was known for being a trouble maker and had a history of fighting/violence in HS which cost him an FSU scholarship and I believe it continued into his college days.

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, DWinzit said:

If they fall in love with Bolton (and I could see that) overlooking his speed but trading it for his instincts among other intangibles they may need to take him at 19. I say that because Parsons probably is off boards and Collins may very well be gone before 19.

 

I believe they set their sights on one of the top FA's then grabs on a guy like Moses, Fisher, Britt etc... in the 3rd or 4th

I mean, if I could I'd do whatever I could to come out of the end of round 1 with at least 2 of Moehrig, Collins, Bolton personally. 

 

If we could drop back a bit, use next years second to move back up into 1, whatever. I'd love to get either 2 LBers or a LBer and a FS in this draft and keep this defense together for the next 5/6 years.

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I would just hold off on calling Parsons undraftable just yet. Remember they said similar things about Warren Sapp and Randy Moss.

If weed leaded to giving a "sandusky" and fist fights, maybe. 

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I'm liking what I see in Cameron McGrone for a WTF fit. Is he on your radar?

 

I like what I've seen of him too, but it's not much.  These are the only cut ups of his I found, and it looks like he just doesn't have many starts under his belt:

 

 

But his RS Freshman highlights from 2019 are pretty awesome.  Looks like a fairly instinctive MIKE with special downhill speed.  Gives you some of the talent and skillset that Micah Parsons has.  Plays tough in the box and has decent looking contact strength and balance.  Very talented blitzer who really shined in that role for his college scheme.  Very aggressive with his pursuit angles, but recovers well and is a gifted tackler who makes off-frame plays looks natural.  Not necessarily a big time striker, but delivers hard contact when the moment is there for it.  Diagnosis looks a little slow sometimes.  Just like missed/slow steps on weakside runs where you wish he'd get more of a jump on the action and keep himself cleaner.  Or reps where he just reads the wrong gap and a more experiences MIKE feels that read out better and makes the adjustment to stay in the play.

 

From what I read, he has very little experience in coverage.  Looks like they mainly used him as a blitzer in pass plays, so we don't know what his coverage ability is, which is a potential concern.  The general lack of experience and collegiate production is a concern too.  He's the type of prospect where you have to project a lot of growth with him to see his ceiling.  He's so fast that he could really pay off long term, and I think he could be a valuable weapon for a team that calls a lot of MIKE blitzes.  Some of the flashes are just so special that you kind of want to overlook the bad reps where he's just processing wrong or too slowly.  This was one of my favorite plays of his:

 

[KillBill26]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I would just hold off on calling Parsons undraftable just yet. Remember they said similar things about Warren Sapp and Randy Moss.

On talent alone, parsons is a top 10 pick.   Considering that, even with the conduct issues, I don't see him lasting past round 2.  Teams might not want to use a first rounder on what they deem could be a volatile pick, but due to his high ceiling if he behaves, they will be able to stomach using a 2nd a lot easier.  

 

I still think he goes in the 1st.   All it takes is one team to chalk it up as immaturity and turn a blind eye towards it.

[XxSpearheadxX]

17 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

 

I still think he goes in the 1st.   All it takes is one team to chalk it up as immaturity and turn a blind eye towards it.

With a culture like washington seems to have now if they decide to draft him I'm fine with it. If they don't like him as a person and don't draft him I would trust their judgment there as well. 

[Koolblue13]

Reading a post about McGrone i think to myself, we will have the players, film room, coaching to groom that player.

 

Then see Parsons and realize that clowns never going to be comfortable explaining himself to dudes like Allen and Young. PSU was his ceiling.

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

From what I read, he has very little experience in coverage.  Looks like they mainly used him as a blitzer in pass plays, so we don't know what his coverage ability is, which is a potential concern.  The general lack of experience and collegiate production is a concern too.  He's the type of prospect where you have to project a lot of growth with him to see his ceiling.  He's so fast that he could really pay off long term, and I think he could be a valuable weapon for a team that calls a lot of MIKE blitzes.  Some of the flashes are just so special that you kind of want to overlook the bad reps where he's just processing wrong or too slowly.  This was one of my favorite plays of his:

 

Thanks man! That video was incredible. Always appreciate your insight steve. Thanks again!

 

Note to self: stop mixing up WTF with WFT

[XxSpearheadxX]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

If we could drop back a bit, use next years second to move back up into 1, whatever. I'd love to get either 2 LBers or a LBer and a FS in this draft and keep this defense together for the next 5/6 years.

If weed leaded to giving a "sandusky" and fist fights, maybe. 

I have not paid too close attention - what is giving a "sandusky"? (I'm scared to ask) 

[Burgundy Yoda]

McGrone is an upside pick, when you put on the film, he just looks the part of a good NFL player but he'll need some molding for sure. As an MLB, I have McGrone right below Jabril Cox (who I have 3rd behind Parsons, and Collins). This LBer class is very very good. Parsons, Collins, JOK, McGrone, and Cox all look like studs. Bolton I'm a bit apprehensive on because of athletic limitations, but he has instincts which you can't teach and is always in on a play. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I have not paid too close attention - what is giving a "sandusky"? (I'm scared to ask) 

Pinning your FS down in his room and rubbing your genitals on his face and ass, then telling your coach and being told not to be dramatic because parsons is the star.

 

Not part of the Sandusky was fist fights that included bottles and other stuff.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Koolblue13

[XxSpearheadxX]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Pinning your FS down in his room and rubbing your genitals on his face and ass, then telling your coach and being told not to be dramatic because parsons is the star.

 

Not part of the Sandusky was fist fights that included bottles and other stuff.

Thats a bit much. Those specifics had been washed from all articles I read, I would imagine washington is not interested in him in the first. 

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Pinning your FS down in his room and rubbing your genitals on his face and ass, then telling your coach and being told not to be dramatic because parsons is the star.

 

Not part of the Sandusky was fist fights that included bottles and other stuff.

Is this exactly what happened with Parsons? I thought it was vague as to who did what I’m the hazing? 

[WEARE1554]

It is vague. Throughout the entire process there was enough evidence- judge was going to dismiss the case due to no evidence and no cause.  Some just hate penn state and bring up the evil Sandusky 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Is this exactly what happened with Parsons? I thought it was vague as to who did what I’m the hazing? 

 

Those are some of the specific allegations involving Parsons from the civil suit that Isaiah Humphries has made.  This article discusses the details of his complaint:  https://fox56.com/news/local/former-psu-football-player-gives-details-on-alleged-hazing-by-teammates

 

I tend to believe the kid because Parsons doesn't really have any credibility to me, and Humphries has other people to corroborate his timeline of complaints.

[Going Commando]

Parsons consistently comes off like a violent man-child.  He gives off a Derrius Guice vibe and we don't need that trouble here again.  Guys like Parsons are mercenaries you get somewhere down the line after the league has tempered them some and you are only making short term commitments to them, not making them a first round foundation type pick.

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Thats a bit much. Those specifics had been washed from all articles I read, I would imagine washington is not interested in him in the first. 

 

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Is this exactly what happened with Parsons? I thought it was vague as to who did what I’m the hazing? 

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Those are some of the specific allegations involving Parsons from the civil suit that Isaiah Humphries has made.  This article discusses the details of his complaint:  https://fox56.com/news/local/former-psu-football-player-gives-details-on-alleged-hazing-by-teammates

 

I tend to believe the kid because Parsons doesn't really have any credibility to me, and Humphries has other people to corroborate his timeline of complaints.

This happened several times and was excused by coaches to not bring attention to the program. As a program that just almost looked worst than a catholic church, you'd think it would have been handled better than saying "pretend it didn't happen".

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Parsons consistently comes off like a violent man-child.  He gives off a Derrius Guice vibe and we don't need that trouble here again.  Guys like Parsons are mercenaries you get somewhere down the line after the league has tempered them some and you are only making short term commitments to them, not making them a first round foundation type pick.

I can't imagine a scenario that has a guy who rubs his genitals on a teammates ass and then the next year goes to camp with Chase and Allen and takes it seriously.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

With a culture like washington seems to have now if they decide to draft him I'm fine with it. If they don't like him as a person and don't draft him I would trust their judgment there as well. 

 

With a culture that WFT has?  Are you kidding?  We're 1 year removed from Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen taking passports and asking for the "Good Bits".

 

1 year.  That's it.

 

Parsons needs to be kept far away from Dan Snyder.  Lest it fester and grow out of control.

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Moss was conduct related as well. IIRC he was known for being a trouble maker and had a history of fighting/violence in HS which cost him an FSU scholarship and I believe it continued into his college days.

 

Were the accusations levied against Moss that of possibly raping teammates?

 

Because I don't think they were.  Moss had issues, but let's not compare those issues to anything like what Parsons has.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Alcoholic Zebra

[Est.1974]

Feels like was are going to be trading away picks for a QB, but with what we have left it seems imperative we draft a couple of LBs. We can attacks other areas in free agency easier than LB. I’d potentially want 2 LBs before we exit the 4th round.

[Panninho]

Watching yesterday's game gave me another reason why I think we should go O-line in round 1 if there is a prospect like Darrisaw available. The Chiefs were beaten up front, this game was won/lost in the trenches because the Chiefs didn't have the depth necessary. Our two starting tackles are free agents next year and behind that we only have Sharpe and Christian, which is not good enough. Charles could become a tackle but he missed a whole season and also competed at guard when he got injured. Having a solid player at one of the tackle spots that is on a rookie deal also gives you a lot of flexibility to re-sign other important players.

 

First priority is obviously to get a QB and I am all for trading up or trading our first round pick in the right situation. But if nothing materializes I'd absolutely go O-line if someone drops.

 

 

[Going Commando]

This is a good tackle class, there is a solid chance that one is BPA at 19, or that one would be BPA in the second round or after a trade down in the first.  I too would like to increase the quality of our OL pipeline.  It kind of feels like Charles and Ismael are the only ones in it who might be good (and the right fit too).  What happened to the Chiefs was a horror story and cautionary tale about spending all of your resources on weapons and qbs and not cultivating your OL depth.  One big injury ruined three positions.

 

Also, this is a run-centric offense at heart.  OL play is even more critical for us than most.  We've got the DL in house, build an OL to match and we can win with a Nick Files at QB just by pounding it and winning with four and five man rushes.

[XxSpearheadxX]

7 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

With a culture that WFT has?  Are you kidding?  We're 1 year removed from Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen taking passports and asking for the "Good Bits".

 

1 year.  That's it.

 

Parsons needs to be kept far away from Dan Snyder.  Lest it fester and grow out of control.

 

 

yeah but Brucifer is gone now. The locker room culture is strong now, it only takes a season. Snyder is a different thing but the culture is here in the locker room. 

 

That being said as I mentioned in my next post the truly sordid details were washed out of all the top articles, they Made it sound like drunk hazing that got out of control. Koolblue explained to me it was quite a bit more than that. He sounds like a big time head case. 

[Going Commando]

Feels like this thread has reached consensus that Zaven Collins is our top option among defensive players and that we would all consider him a BPA candidate at 19.

 

Feels like we've also reached consensus that we would take any of the top four QBs at 19 (even though Lance makes me very nervous, I would still take that swing).

 

And feels like we've reached consensus that we would take Darrisaw or Slater as a BPA at 19.

 

Also feels like we've come pretty close to reaching consensus that we like Najee Harris as a BPA pick at 19.  Ditto for Chase, Pitts, and Smitty, and perhaps Waddle but I'm not sure about him yet.

 

Seemed like there is general support for Surtain at 19, and possibly Moehrig too.  But it seems like we don't have a position on Farley and Jaycee Horn yet.

 

Seems like we don't really like any DL option at 19.  Support for Owusu-Koromoah and Etienne is mixed.  So is support for the fringey first round OLs like Mayfield/Cosmi/Eichenberg/Vera-Tucker.

 

I'll try and figure out my thoughts on Horn and Farley and contribute to a discussion on them, as well as to a discussion on that third tier of OL prospects I mentioned.

 

I think we're sleeping on Owusu-Koromoah and Etienne though.  I'm a little surprised there isn't more enthusiasm for them given just how good their film is.  With them, I'd prefer to try and milk value via trade downs out of market efficiencies that are relevant to their stock--RBs being typically undervalued in the draft, and small linebackers typically are too.  But make no mistake, those two are absolutely BPA candidates at 19.  It becomes much more clear that they are if you throw a position centric view of draft value out and simply ask who are the best players in the class?  Those two easily make the top 20 of that kind of cut.  Owusu-Koromoah won the Butkus award, and Etienne was the most accomplished and decorated offensive player in the history of the ACC outside of maybe Charlie Ward and Lamar Jackson.  Any time someone is graduating from the kind of career that puts them in the conversation for best player in the history of a power five conference, it's worth serious consideration.  JOK and Etienne are two of the safest bets in the class.

[Warhead36]

I don't want a RB in the 1st round. Too many good ones are always available in the middle of the draft.